RedboneSmith:


You're not an archaeologist. You are not an anthropologist. You are not a historian.

Yet you lie down in your room and challenge the professional work of people who are actually trained in the fields, and who did thorough field work. I'm talking specifically of Thurstan Shaw now. At this point, anybody who is doubting the age of the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes, with no alternative, better scientifically-sound dating methodology is just a troll. Babatunde Lawal raised doubts about the dates in the 1970s, and Thurstan Shaw gave a resounding defence and even exposed Lawal's ignorance of archaeological methods in the process.

Those bronzes are over a thousand years old. Find some way to live with that, dear. That they look 'modern' to you is testament to the sophistication of the civilization that produced them, and not an indictment of the radiocarbon dates obtained from the sites.

I don't even know how you think that because no bronze works of equal sophistication was being made in that area in 1900s, therefore the original makers couldn't have been Igbo. No terracotta or brasswork was being made in Ife in 1900 that match the naturalism of the ancient Ife sculptures, but I do not see anyone suggesting the Yoruba couldn't have made the ancient works. The Italians of the Dark Ages weren't building aqueducts and sophisticated road networks like their ancestors were doing before the fall of the Roman Empire. I'm yet to see anyone suggest this means the Romans didn't built aqueducts.

Civilizations rise and fall. Igbo Ukwu declined sometime in the 15th century. The archaeological records suggest this.

And in case you didn't know this, the Igbo Ukwu art match the general culture of that area of Igboland. You can observe ichi marks on the faces of the Igbo Ukwu bronzes. You can see representations of the sacred python which was venerated in that area. The marks and motif on some of the ware are very similar to the marks made on ozo doors. Even the pottery are similar in style and execution to the pots made until recently in Awgu called pots of valour.

But you don't know any of this. You just lie in your room stewing in green jealousy because there is nothing as remarkable as these from your own group.

All I was asking for was further proof

If those art work is as old a thousand years old with no proof of equal sophistication within such axis at which they were found at a much later date, then it was definitely of a now extinct civilization that might have been proto igboid or a now extinct or assimilated neighbouring group

darfay:



Look at the pattern on that bowl, it's definitely machine carved or do you know of any crude tool that could have created same pattern of identical size on that plate that had handle (which is even rare for precolonial shit)

You are amazed by the sophistication right?

Igbos have always been light bearers.

So proud of being Igbo.

We were so good that we were exporting metallurgy civilization to as far as Okitipupa in Ondo and Bamenda in Cameroon.

Why do you think Arochukwu could withstand British for a full year in a full scale war, while Bini fell in days?
We had local crafts men who were adept in gun making and in large numbers too.
If not because the British had the Maxim and had earlier cunningly embarked on gun seizing and breaking campaign in the region before the war broke out. The odds would have been more even and we could be taking of a second Ethiopia in Igboland.

darfay:



All I was asking for was further proof

If those art work is as old a thousand years old with no proof of equal sophistication within such axis at which they were found at a much later date, then it was definitely of a now extinct civilization that might have been proto igboid or a now extinct or assimilated neighbouring group

What equal sophistication are you taking about?
Looks like you are drunk on Lagos-Ibadan express way media falsehoods.

Igbo society was very sophisticated and up to-date. Relative to other African groups.

That we don't have one lazy fat tyrant sitting on a chair called King, who dictates for everyone else, doesn't mean we are not sophisticated.
Democracy is more sophisticated than Monarchy, incase you don't know.

pazienza:


What equal sophistication are you taking about?
Looks like you are drunk on Lagos-Ibadan express way media falsehoods.

Igbo society was very sophisticated and up to-date. Relative to other African groups.

That we don't have one lazy fat tyrant sitting on a chair called King, who dictates for everyone else, doesn't mean we are not sophisticated.
Democracy is more sophisticated than Monarchy, incase you don't know.

The artifacts did not match the reality of the people inhabiting that area as it the time it was discovered
Are you saying the Igbo society regressed?

darfay:



The artifacts did not match the reality of the people inhabiting that area as it the time it was discovered
Are you saying the Igbo society regressed?

Of course. Civilizations rise and fall.
Igboland civilization was at a decline at that point in time.
But the civilization still belong to us.
Perhaps environmental change forced the people to move around alot and more emphasis shifted from Art to survival. With no writing, those with the knowledge probably died without passing the knowledge fully to the next generation, etc..

RedboneSmith:



Lol. Those artifacts highlight a culture that is still quite identifable with cultural norms in the whole Awka-Orlu zone. There is no doubt in any scholar's mind that ancestors of the modern Igbo of that general area made and used them.

What do you mean by Awka-Orlu zone?
What's the relationship between Awka and Orlu?

JubrilBuhari:

What do you mean by Awka-Orlu zone?
What's the relationship between Awka and Orlu?

Awka-Orlu uplands is a geographical term for the highland region that extends from the Awka area down to the Orlu area. South of this is the Owerri lowlands.

RedboneSmith:


Awka-Orlu uplands is a geographical term for the highland region that extends from the Awka area down to the Orlu area. South of this is the Owerri lowlands.

I doubt there is anything like this or even cultural relationship.
Seems like something you just formed off hand to bring two unrelated terms.
Awka is very far to Orlu and they don't even share boundaries.

Ihiala-Orlu could have make sense not Awake-Orlu. I also don't even think there was any point in time they even shared administrative blok.

pazienza:


Of course. Civilizations rise and fall.
Igboland civilization was at a decline at that point in time.
But the civilization still belong to us.
Perhaps environmental change forced the people to move around alot and more emphasis shifted from Art to survival. With no writing, those with the knowledge probably died without passing the knowledge fully to the next generation, etc..

Makes more sense but it's just one of many possibilities

darfay:



Makes more sense but it's just one of many possibilities

More like its not the narrative that satiates your Igbophobic mindsets and wishes.

You are probably looking for a hypothesis that could pin those art works to non Igbo groups.

Sorry! Bad market.

JubrilBuhari:

I doubt there is anything like this or even cultural relationship.
Seems like something you just formed off hand to bring two unrelated terms.
Awka is very far to Orlu and they don't even share boundaries.

Ihiala-Orlu could have make sense not Awake-Orlu. I also don't even think there was any point in time they even shared administrative blok.

I really do not have the strength to play this game that people who do nor read want to play anytime I make a post about something they don't know about but should know. Go and read.

I already said the term is purely geographical describing a highland that stretches from the Awka area down to the Orlu area. And you're talking about administrative units. Who is talking about administrative units?

I made up the term right? Look at this page from a well-regarded book on Igbo history and count how many times the author used the term 'Awka-Orlu uplands. This is just one page. The author used it over and over throughout the book. And other scholars make use of the term too.

Tomorrow I will write Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta and someone will come and tell me Nsukka and Okigwe were never in the same administrative unit and that I am making things up.

Read, mba. Understand geographical land formation, mba.

RedboneSmith:



I really do not have the strength to play this game that people who do nor read want to play anytime I make a post about something they don't know about but should know. Go and read.

I already said the term is purely geographical describing a highland that stretches from the Awka area down to the Orlu area. And you're talking about administrative units. Who is talking about administrative units?

I made up the term right? Look at this page from a well-regarded book on Igbo history and count how many times the author used the term 'Awka-Orlu uplands. This is just one page. The author used it over and over throughout the book. And other scholars make use of the term too.

Tomorrow I will write Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta and someone will come and tell me Nsukka and Okigwe were never in the same administrative unit and that I am making things up.

Read, mba. Understand geographical land formation, mba.

You sounds pathetic Mr man, your concept to this is to bring Awka to Orlu in your Imo vs Anambra rubbish and you failed woefully.

For goodness sake there is nothing like Awka-Orlu zone, the geographical space between Awka to Orlu is even more far than Orlu-Onitsha.

Go and sit down, keep bringing your kindergarten non existing theory to cyberspace.

See his head like Awka-Orlu zone.

JubrilBuhari:

You sounds pathetic Mr man, your concept to this is to bring Awka to Orlu in your Imo vs Anambra rubbish and you failed woefully.

For goodness sake there is nothing like Awka-Orlu zone, the geographical space between Awka to Orlu is even more far than Orlu-Onitsha.

Go and sit down, keep bringing your kindergarten non existing theory to cyberspace.

See his head like Awka-Orlu zone.

Go and tell that to geographers, you illiterate unteachable bozo.

How in the JubrilBuhari rètárded Nairlander fụ́ck is the term 'Awka-Orlu' even going to fuel the Anambra vs Imo feud, you depressing mesh of dead brain cells?!

From Britannica.com.


But the illiterate JubrilBuharis of this world will never know this because they're illiterate and don't read anything.

You picked the right moniker, buddy.

RedboneSmith:



Go and tell that to geographers, you illiterate unteachable bozo.

You sounds like a half educated frustrated idiot.

This thread was about Igbo-Ukwu but you brought your Igbo-ukwu not Nri and then the none existing Awka-Orlu trash.
Why not Onitsha-Orlu zone too since they are both upland territories.


Nairaland hungry geographer.

Most people from Awka don't even know exactly which towns are Orlu in Imo state.

Keep spewing trash.
Local idiot.

RedboneSmith:



Lol. Those artifacts highlight a culture that is still quite identifable with cultural norms in the whole Awka-Orlu zone. There is no doubt in any scholar's mind that ancestors of the modern Igbo of that general area made and used them.

Now you get what I'm saying.

JubrilBuhari:
[s]
You sounds like a half educated frustrated idiot.

This thread was about Igbo-Ukwu but you brought your Igbo-ukwu not Nri and then the none existing Awka-Orlu trash.
Why not Onitsha-Orlu zone too since they are both upland territories.


Nairaland hungry geographer.

Most people from Awka don't even know exactly which towns are Orlu in Imo state.

Keep spewing trash.
Local idiot.[/s]

And who invited you imposter in Igbo cultural thread. Take your nonsense to your Yoruba section.

RedboneSmith:
From Britannica.com.


But the illiterate JubrilBuharis of this world will never know this because they're illiterate and don't read anything.

You picked the right moniker, buddy.

Half educate hungry nairaland 'geographer' why not bring Onitsha sloping down to Orlu?

Hungry idiot.

From a well-known geography textbook by Reuben K Udo that most of us read in secondary school.

"Awka-Orlu uplands" highlighted in yellow.

But one JubrilBuhari wants to come on NL and show his whole ass and let everyone know he no go school.

RedboneSmith:
From Britannica.com.


But the illiterate JubrilBuharis of this world will never know this because they're illiterate and don't read anything.

You picked the right moniker, buddy.

The moniker you're quoting is the same as Julius Malema aka Omonnakoda, Osagyefo, Meleszenawi. The Yoruba dude is fascinated with Igbo culture and is always on Igbo threads.

RedboneSmith:
How in the JubrilBuhari rètárded Nairlander fụ́ck is the term 'Awka-Orlu' even going to fuel the Anambra vs Imo feud, you depressing mesh of dead brain cells?!

All I am seeing here is a glaring symptom of a frustrated nairaland Awka-Orlu 'geographer'.

Someone please give food to this resident geographer before he commits suicide.

UdechiHD:
The moniker you're quoting is the same as Julius Malema aka Omonnakoda. The Yoruba dude is fascinated with Igbo culture and is always on Igbo threads.

I don't think so. Omonnakoda doesn't like Igbos, but he isn't stupid and uneducated. This guy here is borderline rétàrded.

JubrilBuhari:

All I am seeing here is a glaring symptom of a frustrated nairaland Awka-Orlu 'geographer'.

Someone please give food to this resident geographer before he commits suicide.

Lol. You're just trying to save face now with weak jabs, after being exposed for the uncomprehending simpleton that you are.

pazienza:


More like its not the narrative that satiates your Igbophobic mindsets and wishes.

You are probably looking for a hypothesis that could pin those art works to non Igbo groups.

Sorry! Bad market.

Lol! The dude didn't know that blacksmithing has been an Igbo craft since ages. i.e Awka, Amaigbo, Nsukka etc All these were notable blacksmithing towns since antiquity.
Igbo Ukwu art work is similar to the Egyptian arts and proves the early civilization of the Igbo people.

RedboneSmith:



I don't think so. Omonnakoda doesn't like Igbos, but he isn't stupid and uneducated. This guy here is borderline rétàrded.

Ok! I get.

RedboneSmith:


Lol. You're just trying to save face now with weak jabs, after being exposed for the uncomprehending simpleton that you are.

Save face from a frustrated nairaland hungry 'geographer'?
You sounds so idiotic.

This thread was about Igbo-Ukwu, you lots from your forest in Imo state started with Igbo-ukwu not Nri and then the none existing Awka-Orlu cultural or whatever.


You need to see how idiotic you sounds.
Lol
I can bring a rubbish sketch to points Onitsha-Orlu, what do they share?
Nothing! That's my point!

I don't expect understating from a half educated hungry frustrated geographer like you idiot!

If for one this here you poured your frustration, and venom from your rotten teeth.

I actually enjoyed your wailings here, including tagging Yoruba.

JubrilBuhari:
[s]
Save face from a frustrated nairaland hungry 'geographer'?
You sounds so idiotic.

This thread was about Igbo-Ukwu, you lots from your forest in Imo state started with Igbo-ukwu not Nri and then the none existing Awka-Orlu cultural or whatever.


You need to see how idiotic you sounds.
Lol
I can bring a rubbish sketch to points Onitsha-Orlu, what do they share?
Nothing! That's my point!

I don't expect understating from a half educated hungry frustrated geographer like you idiot!

If for one this here you poured your frustration, and venom from your rotten teeth.

I actually enjoyed your wailings here, including tagging Yoruba.[/s]

An illiterate will always be an illiterate. Study you won't, learn you won't! Gerrahere with that nonsense Imo/Anambra bullshit. In time those nomenclature may even be dissolved in an independent Igbo country. Historians have always noted the following geographical location to describe ancient Igbo dispersal point. Awka-Orlu on one hand, Nsukka-Okigwe on another hand and lastly Awka, Orlu, Nsukka, Okigwe, Owerri heartland.

JubrilBuhari:

Lmao
Half educated idiot.
I was expecting your Awka-Orlu rubbish.

Uche ewu like you came to Igbo-Ukwu post to discredit Nri and cunningly brought none existing Awka-Orlu.
The nairaland resident geographer cum historian even said Nri is 14th century.
That's what they teach you in your skuuull.

I enjoy watching frustrated idiot like you moan and wail like hungry dog.

You're empty and uneducated. I won't waste my time educating a main market trader.
Nri is 14th century old deal with it.

UdechiHD:
You're empty and uneducated. I won't waste my time educating a main market trader.
Nri is 14th century old deal with it.

Lmao
Orlu professor, abi na Awka-Orlu professor.

I am not the source of your frustration.
Face the hunger in your hunger ravaged Orlu.

Uchewu telling us that Nri is 14th century, thanks to the University or Awka-Orlu.

Dude, get out from your mud house, get work and feed your hungry self.
Stop pouring your frustration on cyberspace.

UdechiHD:
Igbo ukwu bronze is older than Nri. This Nri mythology is beginning to ridicule earlier Igbo civilization. Nri is 14th century for crying out loud, but the Igbo Ukwu civilization is in the BC.

All the forged history tieing Igbo origin to Nri are not proven but doctored. Any wonder some folks are bent on connecting yesterday Nri to the ownership of Igbo Ukwu bronzes to gain some authority.

But the truth is that, the only Igbo clan who can claim ownership to the bronze work remains the Isu! Why? One, Isu is far older than Nri and have no history of coming from anywhere. Two, the area now claimed by the immigrant Oraeri is territorially Isu — geographically, linguistically and culturally. Even a lot of the cultural practices casted in that mask still resonate around the Isu area. For instance the snake totem etc. But sadly, Igbo history is bedevilled with quack historians with their plagiarism research. Almost all the wack Igbo historians nowadays are simply doing quote and paste, copying the works of the likes of Isichei etc. What stops Igbo historians from carrying out more research or continue the work of Thurstan Shaw to unearth more truths. Apart from Dr. Nwaezeigwe, who is venturing into newer point of view, we have no notable Igbo historian doing something unique, somone who goes to the areas themselves to carry out objective and mind blowing research in areas like the Igbo hinterlands, western Igbo, northern Igbo and even in coastal Bonny and Nembe to dig out facts.

Igboukwu bronze is not older than Nri because they bore Nri motif like ichi. Isu is a forgotten group without a definite culture. Nobody knew their original home land but I believe they were one of the group that migrated southward during the drought.

Many groups lived on what is known as Anambra and we do not have evidence to prove Igboukwu is Isu. And, no , we don't know Isu and they can't claim the artifacts.....go back to Imo and mind your business. You cultureless nonentity