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The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze - Culture - Nairaland

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The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 10:18pm On May 20, 2020
The Igbo-Ukwu bronzes amazed the world with a very high level of technical and artistic proficiency and sophistication which was distinctly more advanced than contemporary bronze casting in Europe.[2] Peter Garlake compares the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes "to the finest jewelry of rococo Europe or of Carl Faberge,"[3] and William Buller Fagg states they were created with "a strange rococo almost Faberge type virtuosity."[4] Frank Willett says that the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes portray a standard that is comparable to that established by Benvenuto Cellini five hundred years later in Europe.[5] Denis Williams calls them "an exquisite explosion without antecedent or issue."[6] One of the objects found, a water pot set in a mesh of simulated rope is described by Hugh Honour and John Fleming as
{A virtuoso feat of cire perdue (lost wax) casting. Its elegant design and refined detailing are matched by a level of technical accomplishment that is notably more advanced than European bronze casting of this period.}
The archaeology of Igbo-Ukwu revealed bronze artifacts dated to the 9th century A.D. which were initially discovered by Isiah Anozie in 1939 while digging a well in his compound in Igbo-Ukwu, an Igbo town in Anambra State, Nigeria. As a result of these finds, three archaeological sites were excavated in 1959 and 1964 by Thurstan Shaw which revealed more than 700 high quality artifacts of copper, bronze and iron, as well as about 165000 glass, carnelian and stone beads, pottery, textiles and ivory. They are the oldest bronze artifacts known in West Africa and were manufactured centuries before the emergence of other known bronze producing centers such as those of Ife and Benin. The bronzes include numerous ritual vessels, pendants, crowns, breastplates, staff ornaments, swords, and fly-whisk handles.
Igboukwu is known to have been the center of the ancient kingdom of Nri/Ora-Nri.

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Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 10:20pm On May 20, 2020
More pics

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Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 10:22pm On May 20, 2020
More

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 10:26pm On May 20, 2020
********

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Otutu1(m): 11:01pm On May 20, 2020
I am proud of my heritage

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Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 11:16pm On May 20, 2020
Pictures

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by johnkey: 5:54am On May 21, 2020
The bronze age
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 12:38pm On May 21, 2020
johnkey:
The bronze age
True talk
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 12:38pm On May 21, 2020
Otutu1:
I am proud of my heritage
Not just you, bro
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 7:45am On May 22, 2020
.
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 10:32pm On May 22, 2020
Are we sure that carbon dating isn't wrong here? Because the design and symmetrical (not sure if it's the right word) perfection is way too advanced for a 1000+ years old precolonial African society.

What tools where used in forging them etc. The mug/cup surprised me the most
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Opemopem15: 7:46pm On May 23, 2020
Interesting
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 8:08pm On May 23, 2020
darfay:
Are we sure that carbon dating isn't wrong here? Because the design and symmetrical (not sure if it's the right word) perfection is way too advanced for a 1000+ years old precolonial African society.

What tools where used in forging them etc. The mug/cup surprised me the most
Why don't you perform an extensive research on it, to clearify for yourself.

3 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 3:03pm On May 24, 2020
Mbataku96:

Why don't you perform an extensive research on it, to clearfiy for yourself.


K
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by OFFICIAL336: 7:41pm On May 27, 2020
While we were casting with bronze our sophisticated brothers were busy deceiving themselves with clay.

It took them about 200 years later to cast their first bronze art yet they claim oldest civilization.

Take Ibadan express way media serious at your own peril

10 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Mbataku96(m): 8:06pm On May 27, 2020
OFFICIAL336:
While we were casting with bronze our sophisticated brothers were busy deceiving themselves with clay.

It took them about 200 years later to cast their first bronze art yet they claim oldest civilization.

Take Ibadan express way media serious at your own peril
true talk, looks like you have done some research
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 8:39pm On May 27, 2020
darfay:
Are we sure that carbon dating isn't wrong here? Because the design and symmetrical (not sure if it's the right word) perfection is way too advanced for a 1000+ years old precolonial African society.

What tools where used in forging them etc. The mug/cup surprised me the most

Too advanced for 9th century of yesterday? Have you seen the artwork that the 'savage' Vikings were producing in the 9th century? Why do Africans like selling themselves short?

2 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 9:32pm On May 27, 2020
RedboneSmith:


Too advanced for 9th century of yesterday? Have you seen the artwork that the 'savage' Vikings were producing in the 9th century? Why do Africans like selling themselves short?


Savage Vikings terrorized Europe,gave us norse mythology, gave us Thursday, were expert sea-men. They were feared in Europe so not a nice example


The art work are actually nice

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Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 9:42pm On May 27, 2020
RedboneSmith:


Too advanced for 9th century of yesterday? Have you seen the artwork that the 'savage' Vikings were producing in the 9th century? Why do Africans like selling themselves short?


I'm not selling Africans short, I'm actually happy we had creative ancestors but still yet we have to probe

Look at the pot in the first picture below, notice the design by the side, no crude tool could have done that and the cup/bowl itself wasn't used in the area it was found pre colonial era for any purpose

If the carbon dating is real(I hope so), those artifacts without doubt belonged to a long lost civilization

2 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by googi: 1:08am On May 29, 2020
Sir,

African Arts were BC ie. Before their Christ. Yes, you are selling yourself short. Otherwise Professors here could have invaded your topic.

They are ignoring you.

3 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 3:47pm On May 29, 2020
darfay:



Savage Vikings terrorized Europe,gave us norse mythology, gave us Thursday, were expert sea-men. They were feared in Europe so not a nice example


The art work are actually nice

Being feared isn't a sign that a people are sophisticated. The civilised Romans were terrified of the barbarian Germans in the last days of the empire.

I put 'savage' in quotes because my use of that term is relative.

There were at least two empires in West Africa at the time the Igbo Ukwu bronzes were being made. Ghana and Kanuri. To consider the 9th century too early for the sophistication that the bronzes show is quite unfortunate.
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Nobody: 3:23pm On May 31, 2020
Mbataku96:
The Igbo-Ukwu bronzes amazed the world with a very high level of technical and artistic proficiency and sophistication which was distinctly more advanced than contemporary bronze casting in Europe.[2] Peter Garlake compares the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes "to the finest jewelry of rococo Europe or of Carl Faberge,"[3] and William Buller Fagg states they were created with "a strange rococo almost Faberge type virtuosity."[4] Frank Willett says that the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes portray a standard that is comparable to that established by Benvenuto Cellini five hundred years later in Europe.[5] Denis Williams calls them "an exquisite explosion without antecedent or issue."[6] One of the objects found, a water pot set in a mesh of simulated rope is described by Hugh Honour and John Fleming as
{A virtuoso feat of cire perdue (lost wax) casting. Its elegant design and refined detailing are matched by a level of technical accomplishment that is notably more advanced than European bronze casting of this period.}
The archaeology of Igbo-Ukwu revealed bronze artifacts dated to the 9th century A.D. which were initially discovered by Isiah Anozie in 1939 while digging a well in his compound in Igbo-Ukwu, an Igbo town in Anambra State, Nigeria. As a result of these finds, three archaeological sites were excavated in 1959 and 1964 by Thurstan Shaw which revealed more than 700 high quality artifacts of copper, bronze and iron, as well as about 165000 glass, carnelian and stone beads, pottery, textiles and ivory. They are the oldest bronze artifacts known in West Africa and were manufactured centuries before the emergence of other known bronze producing centers such as those of Ife and Benin. The bronzes include numerous ritual vessels, pendants, crowns, breastplates, staff ornaments, swords, and fly-whisk handles.
Igboukwu is known to have been the center of the ancient kingdom of Nri/Ora-Nri.
Igbo ukwu bronze is older than Nri. This Nri mythology is beginning to ridicule earlier Igbo civilization. Nri is 14th century for crying out loud, but the Igbo Ukwu civilization is in the BC.

All the forged history tieing Igbo origin to Nri are not proven but doctored. Any wonder some folks are bent on connecting yesterday Nri to the ownership of Igbo Ukwu bronzes to gain some authority.

But the truth is that, the only Igbo clan who can claim ownership to the bronze work remains the Isu! Why? One, Isu is far older than Nri and have no history of coming from anywhere. Two, the area now claimed by the immigrant Oraeri is territorially Isu — geographically, linguistically and culturally. Even a lot of the cultural practices casted in that mask still resonate around the Isu area. For instance the snake totem etc. But sadly, Igbo history is bedevilled with quack historians with their plagiarism research. Almost all the wack Igbo historians nowadays are simply doing quote and paste, copying the works of the likes of Isichei etc. What stops Igbo historians from carrying out more research or continue the work of Thurstan Shaw to unearth more truths. Apart from Dr. Nwaezeigwe, who is venturing into newer point of view, we have no notable Igbo historian doing something unique, somone who goes to the areas themselves to carry out objective and mind blowing research in areas like the Igbo hinterlands, western Igbo, northern Igbo and even in coastal Bonny and Nembe to dig out facts.

3 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by Nobody: 5:18pm On May 31, 2020
UdechiHD:
Igbo ukwu bronze is older than Nri. This Nri mythology is beginning to ridicule earlier Igbo civilization. Nri is 14th century for crying out loud, but the Igbo Ukwu civilization is in the BC.

All the forged history tieing Igbo origin to Nri are not proven but doctored. Any wonder some folks are bent on connecting yesterday Nri to the ownership of Igbo Ukwu bronzes to gain some authority.

But the truth is that, the only Igbo clan who can claim ownership to the bronze work remains the Isu! Why? One, Isu is far older than Nri and have no history of coming from anywhere. Two, the area now claimed by the immigrant Oraeri is territorially Isu — geographically, linguistically and culturally. Even a lot of the cultural practices casted in that mask still resonate around the Isu area. For instance the snake totem etc. But sadly, Igbo history is bedevilled with quack historians with their plagiarism research. Almost all the wack Igbo historians nowadays are simply doing quote and paste, copying the works of the likes of Isichei etc. What stops Igbo historians from carrying out more research or continue the work of Thurstan Shaw to unearth more truths. Apart from Dr. Nwaezeigwe, who is venturing into newer point of view, we have no notable Igbo historian doing something unique, somone who goes to the areas themselves to carry out objective and mind blowing research in areas like the Igbo hinterlands, western Igbo, northern Igbo and even in coastal Bonny and Nembe to dig out facts.


Leave nri.

As far u don't bring your nonsense owerri and those rubbish.

Keep that your history with una there in Imo state.


We don't need here.

1 Like

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by AmuDimpka: 6:24pm On May 31, 2020
darfay:



I'm not selling Africans short, I'm actually happy we had creative ancestors but still yet we have to probe

Look at the pot in the first picture below, notice the design by the side, no crude tool could have done that and the cup/bowl itself wasn't used in the area it was found pre colonial era for any purpose

If the carbon dating is real(I hope so), those artifacts without doubt belonged to a long lost civilization

Do you know that the meaning of Ndi Igbo ... Means the people of the ancient .... Igbo has been civilised

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Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 7:25pm On May 31, 2020
AmuDimpka:


Do you know that the meaning of Ndi Igbo ... Means the people of the ancient .... Igbo has been civilised


There is no proof to suggest that those artifacts if truly that old, aren't of a lost civilization. That's my own point
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 8:29pm On May 31, 2020
darfay:



There is no proof to suggest that those artifacts if truly that old, aren't of a lost civilization. That's my own point


Lol. Those artifacts highlight a culture that is still quite identifable with cultural norms in the whole Awka-Orlu zone. There is no doubt in any scholar's mind that ancestors of the modern Igbo of that general area made and used them.

4 Likes

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 9:05pm On May 31, 2020
RedboneSmith:



Lol. Those artifacts highlight a culture that is still quite identifable with cultural norms in the whole Awka-Orlu zone. There is no doubt in any scholar's mind that ancestors of the modern Igbo of that general area made and used them.


Look at the pattern on that bowl, it's definitely machine carved or do you know of any crude tool that could have created same pattern of identical size on that plate that had handle (which is even rare for precolonial shit)

Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 9:06pm On May 31, 2020
RedboneSmith:



Lol. Those artifacts highlight a culture that is still quite identifable with cultural norms in the whole Awka-Orlu zone. There is no doubt in any scholar's mind that ancestors of the modern Igbo of that general area made and used them.


Was the awka orlu own anywhere near as advanced as the pictures of what I'm seeing?
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 9:38pm On May 31, 2020
darfay:



Look at the pattern on that bowl, it's definitely machine carved or do you know of any crude tool that could have created same pattern of identical size on that plate that had handle (which is even rare for precolonial shit)

Lol. You're really struggling to 'prove' to yourself that these artifacts are:

1. Not as old as they are known to be.

2. Not made by the ancestors of the modern Igbo.

grin

Keep it up.
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 9:39pm On May 31, 2020
darfay:



Was the awka orlu own anywhere near as advanced as the pictures of what I'm seeing?

What are you talking about?
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by darfay: 9:45pm On May 31, 2020
RedboneSmith:


Lol. You're really struggling to 'prove' to yourself that these artifacts are:

1. Not as old as they are known to be.

2. Not made by the ancestors of the modern Igbo.

grin

Keep it up.


Keep deceiving yourself

1,100 year old metal object wey dey in perfect,
1,100 plate with handle yet igbos were using Calabash pre 1900's even igboid and pazienza won't believe thid
Re: The Oldest Bronze Artifacts Known In West Africa, The Igboukwu Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 10:04pm On May 31, 2020
darfay:



Keep deceiving yourself

1,100 year old metal object wey dey in perfect,
1,100 plate with handle yet igbos were using Calabash pre 1900's even igboid and pazienza won't believe thid

You're not an archaeologist. You are not an anthropologist. You are not a historian.

Yet you lie down in your room and challenge the professional work of people who are actually trained in the fields, and who did thorough field work. I'm talking specifically of Thurstan Shaw now. At this point, anybody who is doubting the age of the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes, with no alternative, better scientifically-sound dating methodology is just a troll. Babatunde Lawal raised doubts about the dates in the 1970s, and Thurstan Shaw gave a resounding defence and even exposed Lawal's ignorance of archaeological methods in the process.

Those bronzes are over a thousand years old. Find some way to live with that, dear. That they look 'modern' to you is testament to the sophistication of the civilization that produced them, and not an indictment of the radiocarbon dates obtained from the sites.

I don't even know how you think that because no bronze works of equal sophistication was being made in that area in 1900s, therefore the original makers couldn't have been Igbo. No terracotta or brasswork was being made in Ife in 1900 that match the naturalism of the ancient Ife sculptures, but I do not see anyone suggesting the Yoruba couldn't have made the ancient works. The Italians of the Dark Ages weren't building aqueducts and sophisticated road networks like their ancestors were doing before the fall of the Roman Empire. I'm yet to see anyone suggest this means the Romans didn't built aqueducts.

Civilizations rise and fall. Igbo Ukwu declined sometime in the 15th century. The archaeological records suggest this.

And in case you didn't know this, the Igbo Ukwu art match the general culture of that area of Igboland. You can observe ichi marks on the faces of the Igbo Ukwu bronzes. You can see representations of the sacred python which was venerated in that area. The marks and motif on some of the ware are very similar to the marks made on ozo doors. Even the pottery are similar in style and execution to the pots made until recently in Awgu called pots of valour.

But you don't know any of this. You just lie in your room stewing in green jealousy because there is nothing as remarkable as these from your own group.

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