TAO12:


I have adviced that you should make up your mind.

You have said three contradictory things namely:

(1) He was killed by the Edos,

(2) He was driven back by the Edos, and

(3) He was captured and incarcerated by the Edos and later released alive.

Which of these do you stand by finally??

Anyways, regardless of which lf these three lies you stand by, you can't provide any evidence to substantiate it because each of these is no more than super-story.

The only account supported by evidence is that there were incurssion from Ogedengbe's led army on Benin Kingdom.

He raided and enslaved many Edos during those incursions, while the military of Benin Kingdom was helpless.

I never said benin imprisoned him i said the British bro dont lie.....


I corrected myself on that on, he been killed, i made mentioned of him been drive back by an edo warrior from esan

Before you become so excited fulanus raided edo north too before they were dispatch by edo warriors

Edo north is made of hausa, kogi, edo, Yorubas calling them just edo would be wrong'

Edeyoung:


(1) I never said benin imprisoned him i said the British bro dont lie.....


(2) I corrected myself on that on he been killed, i made mentioned of him been drive back by an edo warrior from esan

(3) The Before you become so excited fulanus raided edo north too before they were dispatch by edo warriors too

(4) Edo north is made of hausa, kogi, edo, Yorubas calling them just edo would be wrong'

(1) Oh British captured him and later released him was what you said.

Okay, so you have only two contradictions to deal with.

Was he killed by the Edos in his attempt to enter 'the promise land' (aka Benin Capital)? Or was he simply repelled and driven back?


(2) No you didn't make any so-called correction. Please point out where you admitted any so-called mistake if you did.

Instead, you simply jumped from one falsehood (that Ogedengbe was allegedly killed by the Edos) right into another falsehood (that Ogedengbe was repelled and turned back).

In any case, there is ZERO evidence for any of these two falsehoods regardless of which one of them you eventually make up your mind on.

The only available evidence about Ogedengbe in this regards is as follows:

(a) There were incursions from Ogedengbe's led army into Benin Kingdom.

(b) Ogedengbe raided and enslaved many Edos during those incursions, while the military of Benin Kingdom was helpless.

(3) That's the problem of Benin Kingdom if Fulanis too raided you.

What I do know, in a similar vein however, is that the Nupes CONQUERED territories of Benin Kingdom.

(4) In modern times, Edo north may also comprise of Europeans if you like.

That doesn't change the fact that the King of the Ososo people made it clear in the 1950s that they are Edos originally from Benin City.

Edeyoung:
Benin is an independent ethnic group which since inception never had any ancestral connections with yorubas, like we all know oba eweka11 created a myth linking edo ancestral royalty with yorubas for political reasons out of fear of edo been a mioriry he had maintained ekaladeran who originally died at ughoton left to found ife after a distortion in benin monarchy, although the story is known to be a myth, but benins influence on yorubas cannot be undermined and it shouldn't be mistaken that the cultural similarities between this two group had come from oromiyan, “oba eweka mythology” which has already been proved to be a mere political staged myth, history has it that benins had been in the shores of the yorubas before the advent of the Portuguese the first Europeans who visited benin in 1475AD,  the reign of the great warrior king ewuare who reigned at the late 15 century had conquered yoruba areas closed to benin and had brought them under his rule , Yoruba areas like owo", ifon, ore'. in the present ondo state have all fell to his rule and the subsequent obas in benin, had expanded the territories further interior into yoruba lands,
The term jebus is a coined word from benin which originated from capture yoruba slaves by benin warriors who were used as sacrifice to the goddess of the river olokun, when this yoruba slaves were thrown to this river it usually gives the sound jebu " which the word jebu was coined from, a French writer also wrote in the 16c that the lucumies(oyo). Once served as slaves in the palace of the Oba,
   The benins warriors also had served as machineries in the past for some yoruba kings and benin had constantly sold guns to the various yorubas in thier various wars which samuel johnson witnessed and mentioned in his book history of yorubas written in 1897
In the aspect of trading benins had sold clothes beeds to the yorubas through trading
In a nutshell the relationship between benin and eastern yorubas had been conquered and conqueror and as a whole to the entire yoruba people it had been a family friend relationship and Not necessarily a family relationship which people mistake it for, oyo and benin had clashed in the past over the protection of eastern Yoruba vassal which benin came victorious, benin had sold many yorubas as slaves to the Europeans and yorubas as a whole have been greatly influenced by benin culture through various activities.

Nice one bro..
Yorubas will never agree that their first colonial masters was Great Benin Kingdom (Edos).. There's actually no shame in that but foolish pride and complex issues will not let them see the truth but rather they will start to fight and debunk and come up with stupid theories.

Edeyoung:



I will give a benefit of doubt you have to bring historical backings to this


Ekalderhan existed in benin history but like many oral history it had many tales not even linking to oba dynasty...... Davidnazee gave a screenshot on that....
Oba eweka 11 made the proclamation that ekaladeran left to ife which didn't happen in history


You just have to read.... Dont let the words of others fool you......

My bro the article I posted didn't say Ekhaladeran died in Ughoton.. Anything could have happened. Destiny may have taken him West into Yorubaland.
I have come across some interesting details concerning Edo/Yoruba relationship that is worth considering too..

Ekaladerhan’s association with Ife and his name change to Oduduwa cannot be dismissed out of hand. This is because Benin people had an extensive interaction with Ife in the pre-Oduduwa period, as attested by the yet to be published Ikedu traditions of Ife. The Ikedu tradition which is the oldest tradition of the Ife people identifies the rulers of Ife as Oghene, an Edo word for God and name which only the Benins and some Edo people use to address the king of Ife. There are also words and names in the ikedu tradition that are very close to Edo words such as Orisanobu-Oghene (Osanobua-Edo) for God, Uko (emissary-Edo) for policeman, Owiogho (Owa-Igho) for house where money is kept, Otu (Otu-Edo) group of age grade, Ehele (Eghele-Edo) largest and middle class, Oma (Omwan-Edo) free citizen, Ekila (Eki-Edo) trade fair and so on (Akinjogbin, 1993: 8-11). One wonders how possible the oldest tradition of the Ife people recognizing an Edo word as the original word for the kings of Ife rather than their own language and having traces of Edo words in their ancient tradition? could it be that the founders of Ife recognizing the rulership of Edo people over Ife tradition and Edo may have influenced ancient Ife people pre-Oduduwa/Eweka preiod?

Another puzzle in Benin-Ife relations, particularly in relation to Ekaladerhan’s transmutation to Oduduwa as claimed by Benin writers and Oba Erediauwa, which scholars in the field have not considered over the years is the observation of H. L. Ward-Price, District officer and later Resident of Oyo province (1920s-1930s) during the burial of the Ooni Ademiluyi Ajagun of Ife in 1930 that: “The body of the king is then washed with water from his private well. The two big toes are tied together with a thin metal chain specifically made for the purpose by a blacksmith. The hair of the head is shaved; coral beads are placed around the neck; the skin is well rubbed with a kind of chalk found at Benin, some two hundred miles away. This treatment, combined with the tight binding cloth round the body serves to delay decomposition. (Ward-Price, 1939: 142).
The distance travelled to obtain the chalk raises a fundamental question of why the Ife royalty choose to go far-away Benin and not other nearby places in Yoruba land? Present-day Ifedayo in the Ife central local government area, nearby Iperinde in Ilesha, Iwaraja in Osun State, and various locations in Ondo State are all known to be rich in efun (Yoruba) or Kaolin chalk (KPMG, 2008: 11 and Ajeigbe et al., 2014: 118)…

Given that the use of white kaolin chalk is not known as a funeral ritual ingredient among Yoruba and is widely used in funerals and particularly royal funerals in Benin, the collection of Kaolin Chalk from Benin and rubbing on the corpse of the Ooni of Ife, shows this custom was obviously borrowed from Benin and most probably through the agency of Prince Ekaladerhan, who the Benin’s claim is Oduduwa. The rubbing of the body with chalk from Benin is either a symbolic burial in the natal soil(home), or a ritual propitiation, which is also a Benin custom. These custom lend some credence to Benin’s claim that Prince Ekaladerhan is the same person as Oduduwa…
Further evidence of this pre-Oranmiyan dynastic link between Benin and Uhe or Ife can be seen in some other rituals performed by the Oonis of Ife that relate to Benin. The most recent Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuade, Olubuse II, stated that the Ooni must perform certain rituals with seven black cows before he can travel to Benin (cited in Osemwegie-Ero and Owie, 2016: 96-97). This seeming confession was made shortly after Ooni Sijuade came out from the compulsory seclusion during Olojo festival where he confided in the journalist which was published on Lagos weekend Newspaper, October 26th, 1990. He clearly stated that the tradition was imposed by the ancestors/founders of Ife. One wonders who that founder was to have imposed such uncommon show of loyalty to the king of Benin?

This rite seems suggestive of a revocation or cleansing of some oath about Benin, otherwise why would he have to perform such rites when going to visit his presumed ‘son’ whom he had sent to rule over Benin.

Oba gha to kpere. Ise.

davidnazee:


My bro the article I posted didn't say Ekhaladeran died in Ughoton.. Anything could have happened. Destiny may have taken him West into Yorubaland.
I have come across some interesting details concerning Edo/Yoruba relationship that is worth considering too..

Ekaladerhan’s association with Ife and his name change to Oduduwa cannot be dismissed out of hand. This is because Benin people had an extensive interaction with Ife in the pre-Oduduwa period, as attested by the yet to be published Ikedu traditions of Ife. The Ikedu tradition which is the oldest tradition of the Ife people identifies the rulers of Ife as Oghene, an Edo word for God and name which only the Benins and some Edo people use to address the king of Ife. There are also words and names in the ikedu tradition that are very close to Edo words such as Orisanobu-Oghene (Osanobua-Edo) for God, Uko (emissary-Edo) for policeman, Owiogho (Owa-Igho) for house where money is kept, Otu (Otu-Edo) group of age grade, Ehele (Eghele-Edo) largest and middle class, Oma (Omwan-Edo) free citizen, Ekila (Eki-Edo) trade fair and so on (Akinjogbin, 1993: 8-11). One wonders how possible the oldest tradition of the Ife people recognizing an Edo word as the original word for the kings of Ife rather than their own language and having traces of Edo words in their ancient tradition? could it be that the founders of Ife recognizing the rulership of Edo people over Ife tradition and Edo may have influenced ancient Ife people pre-Oduduwa/Eweka preiod?

Another puzzle in Benin-Ife relations, particularly in relation to Ekaladerhan’s transmutation to Oduduwa as claimed by Benin writers and Oba Erediauwa, which scholars in the field have not considered over the years is the observation of H. L. Ward-Price, District officer and later Resident of Oyo province (1920s-1930s) during the burial of the Ooni Ademiluyi Ajagun of Ife in 1930 that: “The body of the king is then washed with water from his private well. The two big toes are tied together with a thin metal chain specifically made for the purpose by a blacksmith. The hair of the head is shaved; coral beads are placed around the neck; the skin is well rubbed with a kind of chalk found at Benin, some two hundred miles away. This treatment, combined with the tight binding cloth round the body serves to delay decomposition. (Ward-Price, 1939: 142).
The distance travelled to obtain the chalk raises a fundamental question of why the Ife royalty choose to go far-away Benin and not other nearby places in Yoruba land? Present-day Ifedayo in the Ife central local government area, nearby Iperinde in Ilesha, Iwaraja in Osun State, and various locations in Ondo State are all known to be rich in efun (Yoruba) or Kaolin chalk (KPMG, 2008: 11 and Ajeigbe et al., 2014: 118)…

Given that the use of white kaolin chalk is not known as a funeral ritual ingredient among Yoruba and is widely used in funerals and particularly royal funerals in Benin, the collection of Kaolin Chalk from Benin and rubbing on the corpse of the Ooni of Ife, shows this custom was obviously borrowed from Benin and most probably through the agency of Prince Ekaladerhan, who the Benin’s claim is Oduduwa. The rubbing of the body with chalk from Benin is either a symbolic burial in the natal soil(home), or a ritual propitiation, which is also a Benin custom. These custom lend some credence to Benin’s claim that Prince Ekaladerhan is the same person as Oduduwa…
Further evidence of this pre-Oranmiyan dynastic link between Benin and Uhe or Ife can be seen in some other rituals performed by the Oonis of Ife that relate to Benin. The most recent Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuade, Olubuse II, stated that the Ooni must perform certain rituals with seven black cows before he can travel to Benin (cited in Osemwegie-Ero and Owie, 2016: 96-97). This seeming confession was made shortly after Ooni Sijuade came out from the compulsory seclusion during Olojo festival where he confided in the journalist which was published on Lagos weekend Newspaper, October 26th, 1990. He clearly stated that the tradition was imposed by the ancestors/founders of Ife. One wonders who that founder was to have imposed such uncommon show of loyalty to the king of Benin?

This rite seems suggestive of a revocation or cleansing of some oath about Benin, otherwise why would he have to perform such rites when going to visit his presumed ‘son’ whom he had sent to rule over Benin.

Oba gha to kpere. Ise.

I thought you were bigger than this shit already...

All this write up happend in the 1930 when tribes started borrowing cultures from each other, did you try to also do research how the other yorubas kings were buried i guess No
Probably all yorubas even buried thier kings in such mannere too, it couod also be a general culture around southern nigeria


Am still waiting for orun oba ado if the oba heads were really buried there

Again i need a docunentation of ife-benin, benin-oyo relationship that existed in the past by Europeans account.... Or archaeological excavation


I know you wont fail to convince me bini people
Dont argue in myth

TAO12:


(1) Oh British captured him and later released him was what you said.

Okay, so you have only two contradictions to deal with.

Was he killed by the Edos in his atrempt to enter 'the promise land' (aka capital)? Or was he simply repelled and driven back?


(2) No you didn't make any so-called correction. Please point out where you admitted any so-called mistake if you did.

Instead, you simply jumped from one falsehood (that Ogedengbe was allegedly killed by the Edos) right into another falsehood (that Ogedengbe was repelled and turned back).

In any case, there is zero evidence for any of these two falsehoods regardless of which one you eventually make up your mind on.

The only available evidence about Ogedengbe in this regards is as follows:

(a) There were incursions from Ogedengbe's led army into Benin Kingdom.

(b) Ogedengbe raided and enslaved many Edos during those incursions, while the military of Benin Kingdom was helpless.

(3) That's the problem of Benin Kingdom if Fulanis too raided you.

What I do know, in a similar vein however, is that the Nupes CONQUERED territories of Benin Kingdom.

You debate like a child... Bro

You argue like, you just want to keep the discussion going to kill boredom this argument already have ended no further comment will be made on this

Thanks

Edeyoung:


You debate like a child... Bro

You argue like, you just want to keep the discussion going to kill boredom this argument already have ended no further comment will be made on this

Thanks

As always, I am glad to have debunked your nonsense and exposed your lies and bigotry.

Boredom should never again push you into telling ridiculous lies or into ethnic bigotry.

Anyways, do let me know if you have further lies to tell.

Cheers!

Edeyoung:


I thought you were bigger than this shit already...

All this write up happend in the 1930 when tribes started borrowing cultures from each other, did you try to also do research how the other yorubas kings were buried i guess No

Probably all yorubas even buried thier kings in such mannere too, it couod also be a general culture around southern nigeria

I am so glad to see that amidst a mountain of his own falsehoods and distortions, your brother still managed to admit that the ancient Binis regarded the monarchs of Ife as their God Almighty (in hunan flesh) -- Oghene.

Moreover, to be honest with you, Ekaladerhan is a separate and distinct entity from Oduduwa.

The equation of these two personages (as one and the same individual) is what was made-up by the Binis in the 1970s as a political necessity borne out of inferiority complex.

Am still waiting for orun oba ado if the oba heads were really buried there

I have written quite extensively on the Orun Oba Ado site in Ife which was used for burying Benin Kings' exhumed heads. See link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/4#88240113

Again i need a docunentation of ife-benin, benin-oyo relationship that existed in the past by Europeans account.... Or archaeological excavation

The sculpture attached below was excavated, in an archaeological context, from the palace of Benin Kingdom. It has been dated variously by experts to the year circa1300 A.D.

It represents the image of the then Ooni of Ife in his ceremonial regalia. The same regalia is seen in other ancient Ife sculptures of Oonis of Ife, but NEVER seen in any sculpture of any Omo N'Oba N'Edo (or anyone else for that matter).

Not only does this show a strong pre-European evidence of Ife-Benin connection, it also emphasizes the imperial dominance of Ife over Benin Kingdom.

Reference:
See S.P. Blier's "Art in Ancient Ife" (2012), p.77. for the 1st attachment.

TAO12:


I am so glad to see that amidst a mountain of his own falsehoods and distortions, your brother still managed to admit that the ancient Binis regarded the monarchs of Ife as their God Almighty (in hunan flesh) -- Oghene.

Moreover, to be honest with you, Ekaladerhan is a separate and distinct entity from Oduduwa.

The equation of these two personages (as one and the same individual) is what was made-up by the Binis in the 1970s as a political necessity borne out of inferiority complex.



I have written quite extensively on the Orun Oba Ado site for burying Benin Kings' exhumed heads. See link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/4#88240113



The sculpture attached below was excavated, in an archaeological context, from the palace of Benin Kingdom. It has been dated variously by experts to the year circa1300 A.D.

It represents the image of the then Ooni of Ife in his ceremonial regalia. The same regalia is seen in other ancient Ife sculptures of Oonis of Ife, but NEVER seen in any sculpture of any Omo N'Oba N'Edo (or anyone else for that matter).

Not only does this show a strong pre-European evidence of Ife-Benin connection, it also emphasizes the imperial dominance of Ife over Benin Kingdom.

Reference:
See S.P. Blier's "Art in Ancient Ife" (2012), p.77. for the 1st attachment.

That sculpture is not ooni so stop posting such scrap bro
A 14c ife art differs from this sculpture.
That scupture was probably from Eastern yorubas who benin ruled and govern

TAO12:


As always, I am glad to have debunked your nonsense and exposed your lies and bigotry.

Boredom should never again push you into telling ridiculous lies or into ethnic bigotry.

Anyways, do let me know if you have further lies to tell.

Cheers!

Bro you told a lie that ogedegbe came to edo for slave hunting rather than originally aiming for revenge as a result of benin taking side with ekiti to attack ilesha and was stop at ehor closd to benin by an esam warrior.....

You painted the whole story to suit you

Bro......

Edeyoung:


That sculpture is not ooni so stop posting such scrap bro
A 14c ife art differs from this sculpture.
That scupture was probably from Eastern yorubas who benin ruled and govern

I knew your butt would be hurt by the fact that a sculpture of the Ooni was excavated from your Benin palace.

Sane people go where the evidence goes.

While sick inferior Binis like you cry over spilt milk.

TAO12:


I know your butt is hurt by the fact that a sculpture of the Ooni was excavated from your palace.

Sane people go where the evidence goes.

While sick inferior Binis like you cry over spilt milk.

That sculpture could be carved by the Bini’s for the owo people or a lost sculpture from the eastern Yoruba vassals under benin

Edeyoung:


Bro you told a lie that ogedegbe came to edo for slave hunting rather than originally aiming for revenge as a result of benin taking side with ekiti to attack ilesha and was stop at ehor closd to benin by an esam warrior.....

You painted the whole story to suit you

Bro......

If you had any historical evidence to support each of your claims and contradict me, you would have hastily done so from the get go.

Ogedengbe raided Benin Kingdom and took many Edo as captives.

Edeyoung:


That sculpture could be carved by the Bini’s for the owo people or a lost sculpture from the eastern Yoruba vassals under benin

Sane people go where evidence goes.

Insane, inferior and insecure Binis like you rather cry over spilt milk.

A 1300 sculpture of the Ooni (now kept in your Benin Museum) was excavated from your Benin palace.

Deal with it!

TAO12:


Sane people go where evidence goes.

Insane, inferior and insecure Binis like you rather cry over spilt milk.

A 1300 sculpture of the Ooni (now kept in your Benin Museum) was excavated from your Benin palace.

Deal with it!

Like i have maintained that is not an ife artwork

You want try to convince me but you keep bringing thesame sculpture i criticize

Bro that aint ooni of ife sculptures not even the regalia

Edeyoung:


Like i have maintained that is not an ife artwork

You want try to convince me but you keep bringing thesame sculpture i criticize

Bro that aint ooni of sculptures not even the regalia

Be rest assured that I am NOT trying to convince YOU. My intentions are far away from that.

I have noticed your unrepentant bigotry, so my intention is to adduce tons of evidence which will ensure that you do not escape from your present state of inferiority and insecurity.

While keeping you inferior and insecure, I am at the same time putting those materials out there to expose Benin's "hidden" indignity to the Igbos and to the whole world.


Having said that, always remember to remind yourself that you don't matter. Okay?

Repeating your denial of reality several times changes absolutely nothing about reality.


Like I have repeated, sane people go where the evidence goes.

On the other hand, insane and insecure Binis like you deny reality and gnash their teeth when confronted with evidence.


The same regalia of the Ooni in this sculpture is not found anywhere in the world except in sculptures from Ife of different Oonis of Ife -- Not even sculptures of Benin Kings have this regalia. Only Ife kings.

TAO12:


Always remember to remind yourself that you're a nobody. Okay?

Repeating your denial of reality several times changes absolutely nothing about reality.

Like I have repeated, sane people go where the evidence goes.

On the other hand, insane and insecure Binis like you deny reality and gnash their teeth when confronted with evidence.

Show me anoda sculoture from ife artwork that take thesame semblance as this artwork

Edeyoung:


Show me anoda sculoture from ife artwork that take thesame semblance as this artwork

I am quite certain that, at this point, you're already shaky, or in tears, or both.


Anyways, the same regalia of the Ooni shown in this sculpture is not found anywhere in the world except in sculptures from Ife of different Oonis of Ife.

Not even sculptures of Benin Kings have this regalia. Only Ife kings.

See comparisons attached:

Why Edo people for this section de lie like this? Kilode gan...

TAO12:


If you had any historical evidence to support each of your claims and contradict me, you would have hastily done so from the get go.

Ogedengbe raided Benin Kingdom and took many Edo as captives.

Even Igala fought a war and sacked the palace. The Igala warriors took back a trophy that the Attah wears till today to prove his superiority. The iyoba mask on Attah is the original. Not as fanciful and ornamented as the copies found all over the world today.

The second war, Igala was camped at the frontier and Edo quickly sent fresh virgins to the Igala camp for appeasement.


They cannot deny it that Ogedengbe raided Benin, otlr that Igala raided Benin, much as they would love to.

Britain was the last to raid Benin.

TAO12:


I am quite certain that, at this point, you're already shaky, or in tears, or both.


Anyways, the same regalia of the Ooni shown in this sculpture is not found anywhere in the world except in sculptures from Ife of different Oonis of Ife.

Not even sculptures of Benin Kings have this regalia. Only Ife kings.

See comparisons attached:

Now this ewi of ado ekiti who benin had is influenced on in the past check the picture and compare it with the sculpture

MetaPhysical:


Even Igala fought a war and sacked the palace. The Igala warriors took back a trophy that the Attah wears till today to prove his superiority. The iyoba mask on Attah is the original. Not as fanciful and ornamented as the copies found all over the world today.

The second war, Igala was camped at the frontier and Edo quickly sent fresh virgins to the Igala camp for appeasement.


They cannot deny it that Ogedengbe raided Benin, otlr that Igala raided Benin, much as they would love to.

Britain was the last to raid Benin.

Ogedengbe only raided small farm communities on the border of Benin Kingdom and fled when a Benin army was advancing on his position. He was actually advised by his lieutenants to flee or face certain death from the Benins because Benin has never been defeated in battle. He expected those lieutenants and wanted to face the army but the growing fear and anxiety among his soldiers made him change his mind so he fled.
In the end he was a coward.

Igala did not raid Benin Kingdom. They sprung a surprise attacked on the kingdom (didn’t reach the palace) but were repulsed and the battle taken to their kingdom.
I don’t know how the Attah got the iyoba mask but I don’t think it was taken from the palace but rather given as a gift to the Attah after igala was defeated.
The Iyoba title was created after the igala defeat to honour Oba Esigie’s mother for her contribution to the success of the war. So a mask for that title would have been made after the title was created. So how did the Attah get a mask for a title that most likely hadn’t been created when igala attacked Benin?

@davidnazee, you're not sincere. In what world would any group of people or nation dash their defeated opponents an historical gifts, something of identity? For what purpose? what you said is like USA dashing the defeated Germans their flag after WW2, while USA later changed to another flag design.

What did benin gain by dashing igala the iyoba mask?

TheBlessedHero:
@davidnazee, you're not sincere. In what world would any group of people or nation dash their defeated opponents an historical gifts, something of identity? For what purpose? what you said is like USA dashing the defeated Germans their flag after WW2, while USA later changed to another flag design.

What did benin gain by dashing igala the iyoba mask?

Please be reasonable. The iyoba mask is not a symbol of identity. Benin Kingdom had a flag just like regular flags.
A conqueror can give the ruler of his vassal state a gift and that ruler can proudly wear it on his neck. Nothing wrong with that. Or the Attah could have been ordered at that time to always wear it on his neck as a sign of loyalty to the Benin Kingdom and it eventually becomes a tradition for them.
Anything could have happened. But the igalas never got into the palace grounds.

And FYI, after the defeat of Igala, peace treaty was held by both parties and gifts were exchanged as a symbol for the treaty. The Igalas gave the Benin a traditional knife and Benin also gave something, probably the mask but I’m not sure what it was.

Edeyoung:


Now this ewi of ado ekiti who benin had is influenced on in the past check the picture and compare it with the sculpture

Hahahaha! Is this the best you could return with in response to the regalia??

Once again, I am glad to have turned you into a straw-clutching Nairaland clown.

Notice how you are dead-scared to address the unique regalia in all the four attachments.

You couldn't even dare say pim about the comparisons of the unique regalia.


Having debunked you already on the unique Ife regalia, let me add the following as appendix:

(1) The monarch of a particular kingdom (Yorubas or Benin) is known to have all kinds of crowns of different designs, shapes, sizes, etc.

(2) The frustum-shape beaded crown is universal to all Yoruba kingdoms including Ife and Ado-Ekiti.

[See 4th attachment below for another ancient Ife high frustum-shaped crown without a circular & vertical front piece.

(3) However, the regalia in question is unique to Ife and Ife alone.

Will you dare say a word on this (i.e. the actual issue) and rescue Benin Kingdom from this shame and see finish?


See regalia comparison again in case you mistakenlt didn't see it earlier


Note that I am aware that you have tried this straw-clutching reply with me before using your 2nd account and I trashed you into pieces.

Oh before I forget, did you just say Benin influenced Ado Ekiti?

Influenced them into what exactly? Into walking n@ked?

No they didn't roam n@ked like Binis in case that's the influence you were thinking about.

TAO12:


Hahahaha! Is this the best you could return with in response to the regalia??

Once again, I am glad to have turned you into a straw-clutching Nairaland clown.

Notice how you are dead-scared to address the unique regalia in all the four attachments.

You couldn't even dare say pim about the comparisons of the unique regalia.


Having debunked you already on the unique Ife regalia, let me add the following as appendix:

(1) The monarch of a particular kingdom (Yorubas or Benin) is known to have all kinds of crowns of different designs, shapes, sizes, etc.

(2) The frustum-shape beaded crown is universal to all Yoruba kingdoms including Ife and Ado-Ekiti.

[See 4th attachment below for another ancient Ife high frustum-shaped crown without a circular & vertical front piece.

(3) However, the regalia in question is unique to Ife and Ife alone.

Will you dare say a word on this (i.e. the actual issue) and rescue Benin Kingdom from this shame and see finish?


See regalia comparison again in case you mistakenlt didn't see it earlier


Note that I am aware that you have tried this straw-clutching reply with me before using your 2nd account and I trashed you into pieces.

Oh before I forget, did you just say Benin influenced Ado Ekiti?

Influenced them into what exactly? Into walking n@ked?

No they didn't roam n@ked like Binis in case that's the influence you were thinking about.

And non of this crown came close to it..... Unlike the ewi crown...
You have tried but you failed bro


Would you want me to give you the pdf file describing the influence of benin on eastern yorubas


Foolish sarcasm you threw out there... My post already addressed it

If you did that deliberately to troll then am not buying into it....

Find the influence on ife_benin, benin oyo relationship in the past if they really existed

davidnazee:


Ogedengbe only raided small farm communities on the border of Benin Kingdom and fled when a Benin army was advancing on his position ...

"small farm communities on the border"

"fled when a Benin army was advancing on his position"

ROTFLMAO!!!

Wait let me guess:
Ogedengbe "fled when [he received a telephone call from Benin that] a Benin army was advancing" to engage him on the small farm border communities.


Notice how I have easily turned all you Binis into straw-clutching clowns on Nairaland with your summersaulting from one unsubstantiable joke into another one.

It's also interesting to notice how you Binis have been abandoning your lies slowly:

Your super-stories have recently shifted from "Bini army killed Ogedengbe", to "Bini army stopped Ogedebgbe", and now to "Ogedengbe fled before the Bini army could arrive".


Hopefully some day (when you all grow up), you will admit the only substantiable historical account which notes that Ogedengbe continued to raid Benin Kingdom -- taking Edo captives from one Edo town to another until he got to IRUEKPEN where he agreed to simply forage for booty and then return back to his Idoani camp in Ondo, Yorubaland.

While this continued for weeks/months, the army of Benin Kingdom was helpless.

History can't be re-written!

Edeyoung:


[s]And non of this crown came close to it..... Unlike the ewi crown...
You have tried but you failed bro


Would you want me to give you the pdf file describing the influence of benin on eastern yorubas


Foolish sarcasm you threw out there... My post already addressed it

If you did that deliberately to troll then am not buying into it....

Find the influence on ife_benin, benin oyo relationship in the past if they really existed[/s]

As expected, I have reduced you to clutching at strwas and running for dear life, from the actual issue at hand. I will not stop exposing your 2by2 Kingdom to the Igbos and the whole world.

(1) For the umpteenth time, Yoruba Kings (including Benin's) have a different varieties of crowns not just one crown only.

The frustum/conical-shaped beaded crown is found throughout Yorubaland including Ife, AdoEkiti, Oyo, IlaOrangun, IjebuOde, and others.

This particular shape of crown has a specifically designated name among the Yorubas. It is called Ade-Nla.

The 1st attachment is a frustum-shaped high crown from ancient IFE.

The 2nd attachment is a frustum-shaped high crown of Oyo


(2) Having addressed your distraction to crown, my question on the actual issue remains:

Why are you dead-scared to say even one word about the actual issue in question?

And thus issue remains to compare the unique regalia itself since you have now been taught that crowns can come in different vareities even from the same kingdom.

Why are you dead-scared of saying a word on the actual unique regalia?? See 3rd and 4th attachment again and don't be scared this time around.


Appendix:
I ask again: What exactly did you influence AdoEkiti into??

Influenced them into roaming the streets stark n@ked??

No they didn't roam n@ked like the Binis in case that's the influence you were thinking about.

And in case you're hoping to lie (as usual) that you influenced them into using frustum/cone-shaped crowns (which ironically is found all over Yorubaland); be rest assured that Benin didn't have frustum/cone-shaped crowns in ancient times.

How can you manage to give what you don't have?


Anyways, enough of the crown face-saving distrations (which have been trashed anyways). Now address the unique regalia which is the actual issue at hand. Don't be scared.


A circa1300 sculpture of an Ooni of Ife was excavated from your Benin palace. This is an hard evidence of imperial domination of Benin Kingdom by Ile-Ife.

TAO12:


"small farm communities on the border"

"fled when a Benin army was advancing on his position"

ROTFLMAO!!!

Wait let me guess:
Ogedengbe "fled when [he received a telephone call from Benin that] a Benin army was advancing" to engage him on the small farm border communities.


Notice how I have easily turned all you Binis into straw-clutching clowns on Nairaland with your summersaulting from one unsubstantiable joke into another one.

It's also interesting to notice how you Binis have been abandoning your lies slowly:

Your super-stories have recently shifted from "Bini army killed Ogedengbe", to "Bini army stopped Ogedebgbe", and now to "Ogedengbe fled before the Bini army could arrive".


Hopefully some day (when you all grow up), you will admit the only substantiable historical account which notes that Ogedengbe continued to raid Benin Kingdom -- taking Edo captives from one Edo town to another until he got to IRUEKPEN where he agreed to simply forage for booty and then return back to his Idoani camp in Ondo, Yorubaland.

While this continued for weeks/months, the army of Benin Kingdom was helpless.

History can't be re-written!

.

Unlike you I’m not interested in making up stories for fun..
Ogedengbe raided farm communities and when he learnt a Benin army was coming he fled. I believe you already knew that from your research if really you did any.

Ogedengbe and Ibadan episodes is actually not relevant to the scheme of things or play any important roles in shaping history. Slave raiders also raided Yoruba settlements as well as other tribes.

What is worth mentioning and countless books and articles and journals have been written about is that “once upon a time, Great Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled the Yorubas for almost a thousand years”.
That is a stain on your history that you can’t erase and the reason for your present headache and frustration lol.

davidnazee:
.

Unlike you I’m not interested in making up stories for fun..
Ogedengbe raided farm communities and when he learnt a Benin army was coming he fled. I believe you already knew that from your research if really you did any.

Ogedengbe and Ibadan episodes is actually not relevant to the scheme of things or play any important roles in shaping history. Slave raiders also raided Yoruba settlements as well as other tribes.

What is worth mentioning and countless books and articles and journals have been written about is that “once upon a time, Great Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled the Yorubas for almost a thousand years”.
That is a stain on your history that you can’t erase and the reason for your present headache and frustration lol.

You don't make up stories yet you can't substantiate all these super-stories you've written with even one shred of historical documentation.

You are an insecure and infereior Edo joke as is expected.


Unlike your unsubstatiable super-stories above, the only relevant statements supported by historical documentation remains the following:

(1) Oranmiyan conquered your Edo people, scrapped Ogiso monarchy, and installed a Yoruba monarchy (i.e. "Oba" ) unchallenged till date.

(2) Youruba language was Benin Kingdom's lingua-franca for centuries.

(3) Aje, an Ibadan warrior, slave-raided Benin Kingdom for many, many years.

(4) Ogedengbe, an Ilesa warrior, slave-raided Benin Kingdom for months.

(5) Benin men and women roamed the streets stark n@ked even in as recent as the early 1900s.


All these facts are supported by history as I have demonstrated again and again on this same thread, while none of your super-stories above can be substantiated.

TAO12:


You don't make up stories yet you can't substantiate all these super-stories you've written with even one shred of historical documentation.

You are an insecure and infereior Edo joke as is expected.


Unlike your unsubstatiable super-stories above, the only relevant statements supported by historical documentation remains the following:

(1) Oranmiyan conquered your Edo people, scrapped Ogiso monarchy, and installed a Yoruba monarchy (i.e. "Oba" ) unchallenged till date.

(2) Youruba language was Benin Kingdom's lingua-franca for centuries.

(3) Aje, an Ibadan warrior, slave-raided Benin Kingdom for many, many years.

(4) Ogedengbe, an Ilesa warrior, slave-raided Benin Kingdom for months.

(5) Benin men and women roamed the streets stark n@ked even in as recent as the early 1900s.


All these facts are supported by history as I have demonstrated again and again on this same thread, while none of your super-stories above can be substantiated.

If Slave raiding should be used as points for claiming superiority then you Yorubas will still be the losers. Almost all tribes raided Yorubas for slaves. Dahomey raided you, Nupe raided you, igala raided you, even you raided yourselves lol. It’s like Yorubas were crops in a farm to be harvested. But I don’t celebrate such history.

As for your naked part, you lie there.
Benin was known to be the primary exporter of clothes to all parts of Nigeria and beyond. Everyone traded in Benin cloth because it was the best at that time. Benin exported cloth to Yoruba territories clothing your naked forefathers.
Now you shamelessly turn it around forgetting it’s all documented.

Run away Lilliput.

davidnazee:


(1) If Slave raiding should be used as points for claiming superiority then you Yorubas will still be the losers. Almost all tribes raided Yorubas for slaves. Dahomey raided you, Nupe raided you, igala raided you, even you raided yourselves lol. It’s like Yorubas were crops in a farm to be harvested. But I don’t celebrate such history.

(2) As for your naked part, you lie there.
Benin was known to be the primary exporter of clothes to all parts of Nigeria and beyond. Everyone traded in Benin cloth because it was the best at that time. Benin exported cloth to Yoruba territories clothing your naked forefathers.
Now you shamelessly turn it around forgetting it’s all documented.

Run away Lilliput.

(1) I am glad you admitted that Aje (from Ibadan) and Ogedengbe (from Ilesa) independently slave-raided Benin Kingdom and sacked many of its territories around the 1800s

Moreover, Yorubas have several distinct, sovereign and independent KINGDOMS with different kings of different hierrachy of importance.

So, stop painting the false narrative of Yoruba as one kingdom ruled by one king and protected by one military.

Having clarified that, Dahomey or Igala could never possibly raid even the tiniest Yoruba Kingdom. Dahomey was an Oyo-conquered foreign territory. Also, the only Kingdom I remember that Igala once raided was Benin Kingdom

The Nupe, on the other hand, could only possibly attack a kingdom which was still at its early infancy beginings with no significant level of political, economic, or military organization yet; or a frail frontier kingdom.

This is in sharp contrast to the independent raids of Benin Kingdom by different Yoruba subgroups at different times around the 1800s -- a time when Benin Kingdom has been well established for centuries

So your claim here ranges from a pure blatant lie, to a pained and disgraceful distortion.

As for civil war, should I remind you that Benin Kingdom was so ravaged and grounded by civil war to the extent that its capital was reduced to a mere village??

This is despite the fact that there is only one Benin KINGDOM rising against itself , unlike the Yorubas where there are several distinct, sovereign and independent Kingdoms.

Do I have to mention the Nupe conquest of Benin Kingdom, or the quite recent Igbo slaughter of Benin Kingdom, or the recent threats from Ijaw about which your Omo N'Oba respected himself and avoided trespassing??


(2) At a time when Yorubas already considered clothing to be essential and normal for many many centuries; so many of your Edo fore-parents (while adults) were still roaming Benin streets stark n@ked without showing any shame.

Refer to the following (also attached) from H. L Roth(1903), p.24.:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"... according to Dapper, "No man is allowed to wear any dress at all at court ... There are men at the King's court, twenty and twenty-four years old who without any semblance of shame go about naked, only wearing a chain of corals or jasper round their neck."

The statement continues as follows about your fore-mothers:

"Likewise, the women are not allowed to wear clothes, ... So you can see there, women of twenty and twenty-five years going along the streets perfectly nude without showing any shame."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your claim of selling cloth even makes everything worse for you and your 2by2 kingdom as this portrays your Edo fore-parents as very achaic and backward to the extent of thinking that wearing clothes was something luxurious and should be reserved to the King's family and much more older well to do men (and sometimes women).

In case you don't realize, many Yoruba kingdoms (of the coastal regions) were big time traders of European clothes. The Ijebus were particularly notable for clothing your people in an unprecedentedly large quantity.

Note: The more lies you come with, the more evidence I will counter you with, thereby exposing you and your 2by2 Kingdom to the Igbos and to the whole world. So any how you approach it, it's always you and Benin on the losing end.