onlyfacts:





You have been avoiding my mentions, I don't know why.

Luke 22:50,51. Jesus healed the man called malchus after his ear was cut off by Peter without the man having faith in him. Nowhere in the gospels of Matt, mark, luke or John does it ever mention the man had faith in Jesus, rather it mentions he came with the crowd to arrest Jesus that night.

Cc petra1

Read vs 53 and you’d have the solution to your puzzle. These same people that came to arrest Jesus had been with him in the temple. They had been listening to him, and of course seeing him perform many miracles. Wouldn’t you say so? And Rom 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the word of God. And you say this man didn’t have any faith? The only way you can be so sure he didn’t have any faith is if he hadn’t listened to Jesus or seen him work miracles before in his life. Put your spiritual eyes on and you’d see spiritual things clearly friend.

WINNERSMOG:


Read vs 53 and you’d have the solution to your puzzle. These same people that came to arrest Jesus had been with him in the temple. They had been listening to him, and of course seeing him perform many miracles. Wouldn’t you say so? And Rom 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the word of God. And you say this man didn’t have any faith? The only way you can be so sure he didn’t have any faith is if he hadn’t listened to Jesus or seen him work miracles before in his life. Put your spiritual eyes on and you’d see spiritual things clearly friend.

All you wrote up are assumptions. I deal in the facts and I have shown you facts that he never had faith in Jesus. Even the Bible says it that faith without works is dead.

If the man ever listened to Jesus that does not equate to believing in Jesus. The Pharisees and sadducess listened to Jesus preach but never believed he was the son of God up to the point they killed him. They listened but did not believe, as such they did not have faith. The same applies to that man.
You need to understand the Bible my friend.

Barristter07:


Didnt he ?
The text is clear enough .


There Re numerous examples where people are healed and they dont know Jesus or have faith in him. Another was the night they came to arrest him and peter cut off someone's ear , one of Jesus enemies ... He restored It. If he had faith in him , would he come and arrest Jesus ??

You are right.
A great number of those who were healed by Jesus Christ did not have faith in Him, nor did theu believe in Him and this fact can be seen if one reads honestly through the gospels. As at the time of his death, only a handful of people believed in Him, and this is after healing 100s in a span of about 3 and half years.

Dealing with an indoctrinated mind is another thing.

onlyfacts:



All you wrote up are assumptions. I deal in the facts and I have shown you facts that he never had faith in Jesus. Even the Bible says it that faith without works is dead.

If the man ever listened to Jesus that does not equate to believing in Jesus. The Pharisees and sadducess listened to Jesus preach but never believed he was the son of God up to the point they killed him. They listened but did not believe, as such they did not have faith. The same applies to that man.
You need to understand the Bible my friend.

I guess you never heard about Zacchaeus? He was a corrupt tax collector that heard and believed in Jesus. How can you say the Pharisees and Sadducees didn’t believe in Jesus after hearing him preach. My friend, that assumption is very erroneous. Anybody that hears the word of God can believe it. Rom 10:17 does not discriminate my friend.

Let me show you something. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You must believe to receive anything from God my friend. There is no other way. That’s why you have the word must in the scripture above! You should understand these things, it’s in simple English my friend.

Kobojunkie:
Many who do not even believe in God, but here we have a man of God who probably has it but is using it instead to fill seats in his church. How is he any different from the charlatans, the other snakeoil salesmen out there?
And please don't say because this one quotes verses from the bible.

What I have to say is, "find something better like he did and pour your life into it and what other people's children tackle you like you are doing 20 years from now."

Kobojunkie:

You are right.
A great number of those who were healed by Jesus Christ did not have faith in Him, nor did theu believe in Him and this fact can be seen if one reads honestly through the gospels. As at the time of his death, only a handful of people believed in Him, and this is after healing 100s in a span of about 3 and half years.

Dealing with an indoctrinated mind is another thing.

I saw you took a sabbatical off this thread after all your arguments didn’t hold up. Welcome back my friend. In your absence the truth didn’t change. The truth can never change, it’s just that some people choose to believe lies by the manipulations of the devil.

I hope you don’t wait all your life for a miracle to drop in your laps from heaven, when all you require to get one NOW is your simple faith in the Word of God.

Tuska:


What I have to say is, "find something better like he did and pour your life into it and what other people's children tackle you like you are doing 20 years from now."

Solid advice!

WINNERSMOG:


I saw you took a sabbatical off this thread after all your arguments didn’t hold up. Welcome back my friend. In your absence the truth didn’t change. The truth can never change, it’s just that some people choose to believe lies by the manipulations of the devil.

I hope you don’t wait all your life for a miracle to drop in your laps from heaven, when all you require to get one NOW is your simple faith in the Word of God.

I didn't take a sabbatical. I decided to dust my sandals off and walk away from discussing with you is all.

Tuska:


What I have to say is, "find something better like he did and pour your life into it and what other people's children tackle you like you are doing 20 years from now."

what do you mean?

Kobojunkie:


I didn't take a sabbatical. I decided to dust my sandals off and walk away from discussing with you is all.

Then all of a sudden you decided to get dust on your sandals again

You will soon come around my friend. The word of God is written in black and white and in the simplest language for good reason.

WINNERSMOG:


Then all of a sudden you decided to get dust on your sandals again

You will soon come around my friend. The word of God is written in black and white and in the simplest language for good reason.

Like i said, i chose to move on as far as casting pearls to swine and stuff

Kobojunkie:

Like i said, i chose to move on as far as casting pearls to swine and stuff

My friend, in all honesty I’m not trying to kick you. All I’m just trying to show you is that you always need faith to receive from God. Okay. Hold up. Tell me, how do you receive from God if not by faith?

Even the most popular verse in the scriptures states this fact. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Did you see that? If you didn’t see. Tell me, how else does one receive anything from God?

WINNERSMOG:


My friend, in all honesty I’m not trying to kick you. All I’m just trying to show you is that you always need faith to receive from God. Okay. Hold up. Tell me, how do you receive from God if not by faith?

Even the most popular verse in the scriptures states this fact. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Did you see that? If you didn’t see. Tell me, how else does one receive anything from God?

Again, i chose not to cast my pearls to swines and the lot..or are you a dog instead?

Kobojunkie:

Again, i chose not to cast my pearls to swines and the lot..or are you a dog instead?

You are committing a fallacy, my friend. Do you know what that means? You sure were taught back in school na. Don’t attack the person. Attack the argument. If I remember well, what you are trying to do now is character assassination.

I ask again. How do you receive from God if not by faith? Maybe I missed something. Your 2 other friends that gave you the moral support to return to this thread are also free to answer this question...

WINNERSMOG:


I guess you never heard about Zacchaeus? He was a corrupt tax collector that heard and believed in Jesus. How can you say the Pharisees and Sadducees didn’t believe in Jesus after hearing him preach. My friend, that assumption is very erroneous. Anybody that hears the word of God can believe it. Rom 10:17 does not discriminate my friend.

Let me show you something. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You must believe to receive anything from God my friend. There is no other way. That’s why you have the word must in the scripture above! You should understand these things, it’s in simple English my friend.

Can you listen to yourself first?
I said listening does not equate to believing. They are two different things. To believe you need to put faith in the things heard. So believing calls for faith and while just listening does not. That is why I told you FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD but you still didn't comprehend! if the Pharisees or that man truly believed in Jesus as you claimed, their FAITH in him would have manifested by their WORKS, namely they will believe he is the SON OF GOD and would not have ARRESTED and KILLED HIM.

That man malchus did not believe in Jesus as THE PROMISED MESSIAH, if he did he wouldn't have had a hand in his arrest. Neither did the Pharisees believe, if they did AFTER THEY HEARD OF JESUS RESURRECTION they should have repented and become Christians rather they PAID MEN TO HIDE THIS FACT AND CONTINUED IN THEIR WAYS.

understand English and bible my friend.

onlyfacts:


Can you listen to yourself first?
I said listening does not equate to believing. They are two different things. To believe you need to put faith in the things heard. So believing calls for faith and while just listening does not. That is why I told you FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD but you still didn't comprehend! if the Pharisees or that man truly believed in Jesus as you claimed, their FAITH in him would have manifested by their WORKS, namely they will believe he is the SON OF GOD and would not have ARRESTED and KILLED HIM.

That man malchus did not believe in Jesus as THE PROMISED MESSIAH, if he did he wouldn't have had a hand in his arrest. Neither did the Pharisees believe, if they did AFTER THEY HEARD OF JESUS RESURRECTION they should have repented and become Christians rather they PAID MEN TO HIDE THIS FACT AND CONTINUED IN THEIR WAYS.

understand English and bible my friend.

Mr facts! You are the greatest assumer from this comment you just posted. High time you changed your moniker. First you assumed Pharisees and Sadducees didn’t believe in Jesus. Where is that stated in the Bible Mr assumption? I pointed out Zacchaeus as one of them that believed yet you didn’t understand. Now you have added series of assumptions not stated or inferred anywhere in the Bible.

How did priests start to believe and surrender to the word of God in the acts of the apostles? By simply hearing the word of God. Just like it is stated in Rom 10:17

Acts 6:7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.

And you are there saying none of these groups of people believed in Jesus’ words in his time, as if this is stated anywhere in the scriptures? Okay leave all these first.

Tell me my friend, how does one receive from God if not by faith? Maybe I missed something...

onlyfacts:


Can you listen to yourself first?
I said listening does not equate to believing. They are two different things. To believe you need to put faith in the things heard. So believing calls for faith and while just listening does not. That is why I told you FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD but you still didn't comprehend! if the Pharisees or that man truly believed in Jesus as you claimed, their FAITH in him would have manifested by their WORKS, namely they will believe he is the SON OF GOD and would not have ARRESTED and KILLED HIM.

That man malchus did not believe in Jesus as THE PROMISED MESSIAH, if he did he wouldn't have had a hand in his arrest. Neither did the Pharisees believe, if they did AFTER THEY HEARD OF JESUS RESURRECTION they should have repented and become Christians rather they PAID MEN TO HIDE THIS FACT AND CONTINUED IN THEIR WAYS.

understand English and bible my friend.

Your problem is that you jumped into the middle of traffic from nowhere.

The simple argument was: to receive from Jesus you must believe in him. My debaters said wrong. You joined and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Okay let me assume you know a little of what you are talking about. If to receive from God you don’t need faith like my debaters stated, and you came to support them, then tell me how else do you receive from God? Answer this simple question which seems to be the pivot of your argument.

Kobojunkie:
But we know His wife has not been as hail and hearty as he claims he has been for 40 years.



And I bet his children have received injections, and vaccines of sorts, and been prescribed medications within the same period for which he claims immunity to all afflictions.

I bet if we searched heard, we would find out that he has probably been seen by at least a doctor, and maybe even prescribed medications as well.

Since when does faith of the father covers the children or holiness of a father covers children. Na wa o.

CodeTemplar:
Since when does faith of the father covers the children or holiness of a father covers children. Na wa o.

I never said it did. Do you assume that it does?

Kobojunkie:
But, this is not the truth at all.

The apostles of Jesus Christ healed many who were sick, the lame man at the gate of the temple for one, who I believe it was Peter and John that healed him, instead of giving him silver which he had asked them of.

Jesus did not perform any miracles in His home country because the people there thought He has lost His mind thinking Himself to be of God.
There unbelief was not what stopped Jesus from healing people there. I am certain many of them believed in God,they just did not welcome him, Jesus Christ, as who He says He is.

Jesus also pulled the demon out of the demon possessed man on the other side of the river. Whose faith was that? Jesus's or the faith of the man who was possessed by demons?

No wonder people such as yourself are willing to allow these men get away with this. You all don't even know the truth that is written in your own bibles.

The faith of the one getting healed or receiving the miracle is needed when in sound mind and and alive. When in bad state of mind and dead is when conditions comes in. Jesus clearly illustrated this when he asked "if thou believes?"

Kobojunkie:
I never said it did. Do you assume that it does?

You implied it. Never said you said it.

WINNERSMOG:


Mr facts! You are the greatest assumer from this comment you just posted. High time you changed your moniker. First you assumed Pharisees and Sadducees didn’t believe in Jesus. Where is that stated in the Bible Mr assumption? I pointed out Zacchaeus as one of them that believed yet you didn’t understand. Now you have added series of assumptions not stated or inferred anywhere in the Bible.

How did priests start to believe and surrender to the word of God in the acts of the apostles? By simply hearing the word of God. Just like it is stated in Rom 10:17

Acts 6:7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.

And you are there saying none of these groups of people believed in Jesus’ words in his time, as if this is stated anywhere in the scriptures? Okay leave all these first.

Tell me my friend, how does one receive from God if not by faith? Maybe I missed something...

I thought you knew the bible, so the pharisee and the priests are in the same class? Or are the sadducees and the priests in the same class too? Wonderful!
The priests are only LEVITES or from the TRIBE OF LEVI, the pharisees and sadducees come from different tribes of Israel.

So when they tried to hide the facts that christ had risen as a group with the Roman soldiers and the good for nothing men they paid to lie that the disciples stole his body at night, they believed too then?

Donr confuse a group of pharisees following jesus and a few who actually did. And to further prove to you that majority did not believe, Christianity is not the major religion in Israel today. It doesn't even make up 3% of religious people in Israel. But Judaism is their major RELIGION with about 40% fellowership of the population.

The number of converts on Pentecost were just a few thousands compared to the millions of Israelites who didn't follow jesus.

CodeTemplar:

The faith of the one getting healed or receiving the miracle is needed when in sound mind and and alive. When in bad state of mind and dead is when conditions comes in. Jesus clearly illustrated this when he asked "if thou believes?"

Your theory fails when put up against what is written in the Gospels though. Most of those Jesua Christ healed did not have faith, and many more did not believe either. It is not what I said but what is written in the gospels.

Jesus Christ healed hundreds of sick. Did He stop at each to ask if they believed or had faith? NO.
Did any of those who came to Him go back disappointed? NO
Does that then mean that absolutely all of them , at every meeting believed, or had faith? NO

If we were to assume that they all did in fact believe or have faith in Jesus Christ, would thag then not mean that Jesus Christ coverted so many for His kingdom while He was alive?

Well, the truth is, even as of the time of His death, Jesus only had a handful of followers.

So what happened to those who supposedly believed or had faith in Him, and were healed by Him?

We need to query everything we believe so we don't settle for that which is untrue in the end.

CodeTemplar:
You implied it. Never said you said it.

I didn't imply it at all.

WINNERSMOG:


Your problem is that you jumped into the middle of traffic from nowhere.

The simple argument was: to receive from Jesus you must believe in him. My debaters said wrong. You joined and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Okay let me assume you know a little of what you are talking about. If to receive from God you don’t need faith like my debaters stated, and you came to support them, then tell me how else do you receive from God? Answer this simple question which seems to be the pivot of your argument.

I have my own questions for you too, has your GO not taken yellow fever vaccine? It is mandatory by international law and I know he travels abroad frequently, so how is it possible?

Have you not also be vaccinated, did it make you less Christian, or have you died?

To your question. To receive healing is not based ONLY on your faith. If you believe good, if you dont believe, good too. Healing and miracles are a demonstration of GOD'S POWER primarily. Your faith in God's power is secondary. If you say Gods power is based on our manifesting faith alone, it is to say God's power is a thing of our minds alone, like a PLACEBO EFFECT. That is if I think in my mind that I am well I become well. Google search the PLACEBO EFFECT.

All through the bible whether God's enemies choose to have faith in his power or not he has demonstrated it. He did it to pharaoh in Egypt, he did against Baal worshipers, he did it to the pharisees etc.

Healing and miracles function in people with and without faith (it is fake pastors that are deceiving you that it is ONLY your faith that can heal you), it is left to God and his prophet to decide who to heal at anytime.

Believing in God Grant's you are relationship with him and is much more than healing.

onlyfacts:


I have my own questions for you too, has your GO not taken yellow fever vaccine? It is mandatory by international law and I know he travels abroad frequently, so how is it possible?

Have you not also be vaccinated, did it make you less Christian, or have you died?

To your question. To receive healing is not based ONLY on your faith. If you believe good, if you dont believe, good too. Healing and miracles are a demonstration of GOD'S POWER primarily. Your faith in God's power is secondary. If you say Gods power is based on our manifesting faith alone, it is to say God's power is a thing of our minds alone, like a PLACEBO EFFECT. That is if I think in my mind that I am well I become well. Google search the PLACEBO EFFECT.

All through the bible whether God's enemies choose to have faith in his power or not he has demonstrated it. He did it to pharaoh in Egypt, he did against Baal worshipers, he did it to the pharisees etc.

Healing and miracles function in people with and without faith (it is fake pastors that are deceiving you that it is ONLY your faith that can heal you), it is left to God and his prophet to decide who to heal at anytime.

Believing in God Grant's you are relationship with him and is much more than healing.

All these your claims are unfounded my friend. You are just using inaccurate grammar to further confuse yourself. We are talking faith you are talking placebo effect. What does placebo effect have to do with the word of God now? . I said faith is believing in the word of God and acting upon it, then God performs. You are there talking placebo. Did I mention anything about using your mind? Who is taking positivism here?

The Egyptians and Baal that you mentioned. Are you so naive to realize that the children of God had faith in the word of God and that was what was giving them victory over the enemy? In the case of pharaoh. It was Moses that believed God and was carrying out all the instructions of God, thereby securing the victory for them. In the case of Baal, it was Elijah that had faith in God, called down fire on the Baal priests and fire came down. Do you know what you are talking about at all?

So if you are sick now, God will just come down when he likes and heal you? You better wake up friend. I know it is your bitterness against this man that is making you say things that are unreasonable.

I have taken vaccines, he must have taken vaccines too. But do you know the vaccine he was talking about? He was talking about the covid-19 vaccine. Do you know the injection he was talking about? He was talking about injection to cure an ailment. Can’t remember when last I took an injection to cure an ailment myself. The last time I took one (very long ago) I didn’t even know how faith works.

My point again: believing God’s word is what triggers God to move in our direction like we have it stated all through the scriptures, and not just waiting for God to act when he likes. My friend you go get grey hair for waiting o.

WINNERSMOG:


All these your claims are unfounded my friend. You are just using inaccurate grammar to further confuse yourself. We are talking faith you are talking placebo effect. What does placebo effect have to do with the word of God now? . I said faith is believing in the word of God and acting upon it, then God performs. You are there talking placebo. Did I mention anything about using your mind? Who is taking positivism here?

The Egyptians and Baal that you mentioned. Are you so naive to realize that the children of God had faith in the word of God and that was what was giving them victory over the enemy? In the case of pharaoh. It was Moses that believed God and was carrying out all the instructions of God, thereby securing the victory for them. In the case of Baal, it was Elijah that had faith in God, called down fire on the Baal priests and fire came down. Do you know what you are talking about at all?

So if you are sick now, God will just come down when he likes and heal you? You better wake up friend. I know it is your bitterness against this man that is making you say things that are unreasonable.

I have taken vaccines, he must have taken vaccines too. But do you know the vaccine he was talking about? He was talking about the covid-19 vaccine. Do you know the injection he was talking about? He was talking about injection to cure an ailment. Can’t remember when last I took an injection to cure an ailment myself. The last time I took one (very long ago) I didn’t even know how faith works.

My point again: believing God’s word is what triggers God to move in our direction like we have it stated all through the scriptures, and not just waiting for God to act when he likes. My friend you go get grey hair for waiting o.

You make me laugh seriously, your will comprehend slowly.

Read the title of your post.

"I Haven't Received Injection In 51 Years, I Can NEVER Take ANY Vaccine"- OYEDEPO

At least you have admitted he did. That is my point for posting on this trend. But let me digress a bit below.

He could have said Covid19 vaccine but he did not. Is it hard to say? As usual you must always try to clarify what a pastor said when what he said is clear and obvious for all to read.

I am not waiting for miracles mind you, I was only showing you how miracles, genuine miracles performed in the bible works and not what we have now.

onlyfacts:


I thought you knew the bible, so the pharisee and the priests are in the same class? Or are the sadducees and the priests in the same class too? Wonderful!
The priests are only LEVITES or from the TRIBE OF LEVI, the pharisees and sadducees come from different tribes of Israel.

So when they tried to hide the facts that christ had risen as a group with the Roman soldiers and the good for nothing men they paid to lie that the disciples stole his body at night, they believed too then?

Donr confuse a group of pharisees following jesus and a few who actually did. And to further prove to you that majority did not believe, Christianity is not the major religion in Israel today. It doesn't even make up 3% of religious people in Israel. But Judaism is their major RELIGION with about 40% fellowership of the population.

The number of converts on Pentecost were just a few thousands compared to the millions of Israelites who didn't follow jesus.

What is your point in differentiating all these people into categories? All of them were opposed to Jesus. For your information it was even the chief priests that paid Judas to betray Jesus. Let me show you how they ranked from highest rank to lowest. The chief priest, the scribes, the elders, the Pharisees and Sadducees were like in the same rank but they had different beliefs about resurrection- all these groups were bitterly opposed to Jesus. But when the gospel began to spread all that heard it believed and were obedient to the faith.

Who asked you for statistics. Are you trying to change the topic, let us know?

onlyfacts:


You make me laugh seriously, your will comprehend slowly.

Read the title of your post. I Haven't Received Injection In 51 Years, I Can NEVER Take ANY Vaccine- OYEDEPO

He could have said Covid19 vaccine but he did not. Is it hard to say? As usual you must always try to clarify what a pastor said when what he said is clear and obvious for all to read.

I am not waiting for miracles mind you, I was only showing you how miracles, genuine miracles performed in the bible works and not what we have now.

You didn’t know what vaccine he was talking about, yet you came on the thread and started spewing thrash. He was talking in response to the alleged world vaccination against covid 19, when he said, “I can never take any vaccine.” That is clear enough. But you just came and entered express. Please be careful

Since genuine miracles in the Bible were done by waiting for God to act anytime he likes, please follow that example and grow grey hair waiting na.

WINNERSMOG:


What is your point in differentiating all these people into categories? All of them were opposed to Jesus. For your information it was even the chief priests that paid Judas to betray Jesus. Let me show you how they ranked from highest rank to lowest. The chief priest, the scribes, the elders, the Pharisees and Sadducees were like in the same rank but they had different beliefs about resurrection- all these groups were bitterly opposed to Jesus. But when the gospel began to spread all that heard it believed and were obedient to the faith.

Who asked you for statistics. Are you trying to change the topic, let us know?

That is why I quoted the statistics, to prove to you that I have both biblical evidence and nonbiblical evidence to prove my point that majority of the Jews did not believe in Jesus.

Infact since Judaism is the major religion is Israel guess what? The Jews are still expecting the messiah to come, they deny jesus as the messiah. You make me laugh seriously.

WINNERSMOG:


You didn’t know what vaccine he was talking about, yet you came on the thread and started spewing thrash. He was talking in response to the alleged world vaccination against covid 19, when he said, “I can never take any vaccine.” That is clear enough. But you just came and entered express. Please be careful

Since genuine miracles in the Bible were done by waiting for God to act anytime he likes, please follow that example and grow grey hair waiting na.

I hope your pastor doesn't get to eat his words some day cause I know you will still come here to defend him. Just the way polio vaccine, yellow fever etc are mandatory, I hope for international travels covid19 vaccine is not made compulsory because if it is, your pastor and other pastors will still use it and forget all they said about it and you followers will come here to explain what they earlier said.

onlyfacts:


I hope your pastor doesn't get to eat his words some day cause I know you will still come here to defend him. Just the way polio vaccine, yellow fever etc are mandatory, I hope for international travels covid19 vaccine is not made compulsory because if it is, your pastor and other pastors will still use it and forget all they said about it and you followers will come here to explain what they earlier said.

This is the point my friend. Because Jesus said he died and rose again to give us divine health- Matt 8:17- we believe in that and thus we can never be affected by any form of sickness or disease. That was what gave birth to that statement he made.

So you may have to wait till eternity for him to be affected by sicknesses and diseases- you know the word of God never changes. As long as we keep believing it will always be so.