God is always perfect in all his ways and did not create man to continue struggling in sin.
Man caused it.Genesis 3:1-end.
If he had created man a sinner then he wont be having continous relationship with Adam and Eve since he cannot behold iniquity.Habbakuk 1:13A"you are of a purer eyes,and cannot behold iniquity".
He created man perfect as he is but the begginning of our continous struggle with sin and new status of sinful nature originated from the garden of eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit and severed their relationship with God.
Ever since then man started struggling in sin and attained a sinful nature.Psalm 51:5"Behold i was formed in iniquity:and through sin my mother conceived me"which means anyone who comes through this world through sexual intercourse have partake that sinful nature.That was why Christ was conceived through the Holy Spirit and that made him the spotless lamb who died to redeem us from that sin Adam put us into.

Sexual intercourse is a sin?
I think you are making the wrong thing the scape goat here
Are test-tube babies and babies born through artificial insemination (the new asexual ways to birth) all born without sin?

Kobojunkie:
Sexual intercourse is a sin?
I think you are making the wrong thing the scape goat here
Are test-tube babies and babies born through artificial insemination (the new asexual ways to birth) all born without sin?

Why was it after God chase Adam and Eve that they started giving birth?The fact that they ate the forbidden fruit as our first father and mother disconnected that immunity to sin and made them exosed to sin.Have you ever thought that if they were not chased out of the garden,how will they give birth to multiply?
You have your father and mother blood in you therefore every particles in their blood is definitely deposited into you.Same applies to this case,They became sinners after eating the forbidden fruit thereby giving them the free will to decide to do good and bad which God did not create in us before until this mistake,therefore this particles[sin] in their blood was passed to us hence the statement of Psalm 51:5 anf Romans 3:23.

PRE4:
Why was it after God chase Adam and Eve that they started giving birth?The fact that they ate the forbidden fruit as our first father and mother disconnected that immunity to sin and made them exosed to sin.Have you ever thought that if they were not chased out of the garden,how will they give birth to multiply?

There is no mention that Adam and Eve did not have sex while in the Garden of Eden, and there is also no mention that the first babies born to man was conceived after man and woman left the Garden of Eden.

PRE4:
You have your father and mother blood in you therefore every particles in their blood is definitely deposited into you. Same applies to this case,They became sinners after eating the forbidden fruit thereby giving them the free will to decide to do good and bad which God did not create in us before until this mistake,therefore this particles[sin] in their blood was passed to us hence the statement of Psalm 51:5 anf Romans 3:23.

If both father and mother are embued with sin, Does that not jettison your initial claims about the virgin birth then?

Kobojunkie:
There is no mention that Adam and Eve did not have sex while in the Garden of Eden, and there is also no mention that the first babies born to man was conceived after man and woman left the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 4:1
If both father and mother are embued with sin, Does that not jettison your initial claims about the virgin birth then?

Jesus Christ birth was through the holy spirit.

PRE4:
Jesus Christ birth was through the holy spirit.

But what about the sin-filled woman involved in said birth? Remember your recent comment that

PRE4:

You have your father and mother blood in you therefore every particles in their blood is definitely deposited into you.Same applies to this case,They became sinners after eating the forbidden fruit thereby giving them the free will to decide to do good and bad which God did not create in us before until this mistake,therefore this particles[sin] in their blood was passed to us hence the statement of Psalm 51:5 anf Romans 3:23.

Kobojunkie:
But what about the sin-filled woman involved in said birth? Remember your recent comment that

Yes.

PRE4:
Yes.

So, even though He was born of the holy spirit, since He shared his mother's blood means He too was born of sin, I mean Jesus Christ?

Kobojunkie:
So, He too was born of sin, I mean Jesus Christ?

You dont get it.
Mary was a virgin,that was why God chose to let Jesus come through her.There was no sexual intercourse before Christ was conceived if not he will have partaked in the sinful nature and will not be able to die for the world sin.

PRE4:

You dont get it.
Mary was a virgin,that was why God chose to let Jesus come through her.There was no sexual intercourse before Christ was conceived if not he will have partaked in the sinful nature and will not be able to die for the world sin.

And we are back to the problem again... what happens when two virgins, one male and the other female, decide to have a test-tube baby which is then artificially implanted into the female virgin's womb?
Note: No sexual intercourse involved.

Kobojunkie:

And we are back to the problem again... what happens when two virgins, one male and the other female, decide to have a test-tube baby which is then artificially implanted into the female virgin's womb?
Note: No sexual intercourse involved.

Remember in this process[in vitro fertilisation],Sperm and egg is required and this cntains blood.

PRE4:
Remember in this process[in vitro fertilisation],Sperm and egg is required and this cntains blood.

So? Since sexual intercourse is avoided, what is the problem?

Kobojunkie:
So? Since sexual intercourse is avoided, what is the problem?

The blood is involved bro.Mind you,there is still sinful partices embedded there in the blood of both couple.

PRE4:
The blood is involved bro.Mind you,there is still sinful partices embedded there in the blood of both couple.

But there was also sinful blood in the Holy Spirit-Mary mixture as well

Kobojunkie:
But there was also sinful blood in the Holy Spirit-Mary mixture as well

Dont blaspheme bro.Holy Spirit is a spiritual being and does not possess blood and Mary was a virgin,she never had sex with anyone not to talk of The Holy Spirit

PRE4:

Dont blaspheme bro.Holy Spirit is a spiritual being and does not possess blood and Mary was a virgin,she never had sex with anyone not to talk of The Holy Spirit

I am still talking about the sinful blood in the Holy-Spirit to Mary offspring then. Did Jesus Christ not have Mary's blood in Him? Wasn't Mary's blood sin-filled, according to you?

Kobojunkie:
I am still talking about the sinful blood in the Holy-Spirit to Mary offspring then. Did Jesus Christ not have Mary's blood in Him? Wasn't Mary's blood sin-filled, according to you?

God will help you understand his word.For now goodbye Mr Argument.

PRE4:
God will help you understand his word.For now goodbye Mr Argument.

What word? God never said anything about what you are trying to explain here... this is all you though

Kobojunkie:
What word? God never said anything about what you are trying to explain here... this is all you though

Okay explain in your view,i am open to other's view

PRE4:

Okay explain in your view,i am open to other's view

You have time answering him. I don't think you know him. That guy is confusion. he is confuse with himself

delkuf:
You have time answering him. I don't think you know him. That guy is confusion. he is confuse with himself

I really dont know his stand,always contradicting every thing one says on nairaland.
I just hate arguing if not we will continue for a week.

PRE4:

I really dont know his stand,always contradicting every thing one says on nairaland.
I just hate arguing if not we will continue for a week.

Well, you made the claim that sexual intercourse is the sin and tried to conclude that Jesus was born without sin simply on the basis that no sexual intercourse took place and when I tested your claim against the one situation, we found that it did not hold.

Next, you mentioned the sin is in the blood, and we went down the path and... well, we never got to you explaining how it is possible for Jesus to have sin-blood of his mother in him and be without sin.

Again, we have been basing this on your claims, and not mine. And these claims were not even made by God either.

PRE4:

I really dont know his stand,always contradicting every thing one says on nairaland.
I just hate arguing if not we will continue for a week.

that is his problem. at first I thought he is a Christian, but later when started reading most of his post I now knew he is out there to confuse people

delkuf:
that is his problem. at first I thought he is a Christian, but later when started reading most of his post I now knew he is out there to confuse people

Exactly

PRE4:

Exactly

But I am not the one who created this thread filled with doctrine(teaching) that is not according to what God thought. You obviously did not think it all through before you posted it so why are you sure I am the problem here for making you see this?

Kobojunkie:
But I am not the one who created this thread filled with doctrine(teaching) that is not according to what God thought. You obviously did not think it all through before you posted it so why are you sure I am the problem here for making you see this?

You are confused.I coined this out from the Bible with proofs yet you oppose it with no biblical proofs.

PRE4:
You are confused.I coined this out from the Bible with proofs yet you oppose it with no biblical proofs.

I read the Bible as well. You did not coin this out of the Bible, what you claimed about sexual intercourse is not in the Bible.
And your claim that sin is in the blood is also not in the bible as you put it.
Is a man sinful? Yes

PRE4:

You dont get it.
Mary was a virgin,that was why God chose to let Jesus come through her.There was no sexual intercourse before Christ was conceived if not he will have partaked in the sinful nature and will not be able to die for the world sin.

How sure are you he didn't sleep with her just like Zeus

Kobojunkie:
I am still talking about the sinful blood in the Holy-Spirit to Mary offspring then. Did Jesus Christ not have Mary's blood in Him? Wasn't Mary's blood sin-filled, according to you?

I always wonder if Jesus had XY chromosomes like other men.

If he had XY chromosomes, of what origin was his Y-Chtomosome?

Since Jesus' remains are still available, can't Achiologists do the needful?

Oldoinyolengai:
I always wonder if Jesus had XY chromosomes like other men.
If he had XY chromosomes, of what origin was his Y-Chtomosome?
Since Jesus' remains are still available, can't Achiologists do the needful?

Where?

Kobojunkie:
Where?

In Israel historical sites as well as in Vatican.

PRE4:
God is always perfect in all his ways and did not create man to continue struggling in sin.
Man caused it. Genesis 3:1-end.
If he had created man a sinner then he wont be having continous relationship with Adam and Eve since he cannot behold iniquity.

Habbakuk 1:13A
"you are of a purer eyes, and cannot behold iniquity"

When you take the interpretation of the translated bible literally, you'll get sucked into doing a proof text as you've just did with Habakkuk 1:13a here.

Habakkuk 1:13a, basically is saying that, God does not look with His eyes to approve evil nor tolerate wrongdoing

PRE4:
He created man perfect as He is

You are using an oxymoron here. If man was perfect as God is, then it would have been impossible for man to sin. It would have been impossible for man to do evil. It would have been impossible for man to do any wrong.

Satan, even wasn't created perfect. Satan wasn't a created perfect being. The Bible said Satan was blameless in his ways, actually meaning was free or innocent of any wrongdoing(s) (i.e. Ezekiel 28:15).

Job, as well was said to blameless and even upright, meaning he was principled i.e. Job 1:8

The first pair of humans, this is talking of Adam and Eve (i.e. A&E) were created characterless, meaning, they had no individual nature, no personality or distinctive trait. None of these has developed yet because they essentially were clean slates and with time, their character would have developed and their in the beginning clean slates, will soon be written up with all sorts like honest, trustworthy, integrity, righteous, kind hearted, loyal, abides by rules et cetera

PRE4:
but the begginning of our continous struggle with sin and new status of sinful nature originated from the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit and severed their relationship with God.
Ever since then man started struggling in sin and attained a sinful nature.

[img]https://s7/images/balance-good-evil-d-36238123.jpg[/img]

The struggle started from the scale having being tipped. Nothing upsets, the balance of good and evil, more than spiritual death does, and spiritual death, occurred, immediately after eating the fruit, off the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (i.e. TKGE)

PRE4:
Psalm 51:5
"Behold i was formed in iniquity: and through sin my mother conceived me" which means anyone who comes through this world through sexual intercourse have partake that sinful nature.

That was why Christ was conceived through the Holy Spirit and that made Him the spotless lamb who died to redeem us from that sin Adam put us into.

"By faith Abraham, being tested, has offered up Isaac.
Even the one having received the promises was offering up his only begotten son"
- Hebrews 11:17

Sexual intercourse is a gift. There is no sinful nature about it and there is nothing to be shameful about partaking in having sex.

The reason why Jesus Christ had to bypass a human father when God decided, the time was right for Him to incarnate, is simply and mainly because its the human male progenitor who passes the sinful nature to his descendant(s) or offsprings and we don't want that to happen, plainly because anything that involves the male, in reproduction of a human being (i.e. son of Man) automatically will transmit and transfer the fallen human nature trait. It doesn't matter, if it is done physically, sexually, laboratory or science assisted. This is the reason why an earthly father is ruled out. The reason, why an earthly father, was out of the equation, was because such, frankly speaking, will pass on the polluted, debased and devalued human being essence to be inherited.

Now, from females being XX and males being XY, the Holy Spirit had to step in to offer the Y in its provided XY chromosomes, so a male Jesus Christ be formed, and one such that is free of any earthly father sinful nature, that would have been inherited as per what Psalm 51:5 is messaging about. Had it been an earthly father was involved in forming and conceiving, then Jesus would have inherited all the undesirables and baggages. Look at Isaac, the Holy Spirit didnt fall upon Sarah. It was the miraculous of of reversing Abraham's impotency and Sarah's menopause that produced Isaac, another unique birth, but this one, is of the different kind to Jesus' birth (i.e. begotten son in Hebrews 11:17 above)