Kobojunkie:
Sexual intercourse is a sin?
I think you are making the wrong thing the scape goat here
Are test-tube babies and babies born through artificial insemination (the new asexual ways to birth) all born without sin?

Inasmuch as a earthly male is involved, the sinful nature will be inherited. It doesnt matter whether the sperm is physically, sexually, science or laboratory assisted to fertilise the egg, the sinful nature will automatically still be passed on.

The corrective, is to withdraw an earthly father from the equation, and this is why and how the Holy Spirit comes into the frame.

PRE4:
Why was it after God chase Adam and Eve that they started giving birth?

The fact that they ate the forbidden fruit as our first father and mother disconnected that immunity to sin and made them exosed to sin.Have you ever thought that if they were not chased out of the garden,how will they give birth to multiply?
You have your father and mother blood in you therefore every particles in their blood is definitely deposited into you.Same applies to this case. They became sinners after eating the forbidden fruit thereby giving them the free will to decide to do good and bad which God did not create in us before until this mistake, therefore this particles[sin] in their blood was passed to us hence the statement of Psalm 51:5 and Romans 3:23.

"Whoever sins is guilty of breaking God's law, because sin is a breaking of the law.
(i.e. Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.)"
- 1 John 3:4

Adam and Eve (i.e. A&E) had freewill to start. It is the same freewill they had to start with that was exercised when the went ahead to eat the fruit, off the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (i.e. TKGE)

Sin, plainly speaking, is the transgression of the law. The very act of A&E eating the fruit, off the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (i.e. TKGE), polluted the DNA. Now whats DNA?. DNA, is a hereditary material in humans and also found in almost all other organisms. It carries a genetic code, it follows, for our development, functioning, growth, reproduction and its these biological instructions written in it that's used to make each one of us unique.

Romans 3:23, is confirming that because of sin, the DNA "recipe book" has been tampered with and is become totally illegible, to the point of lacking instructions/codes with divine moral attributes in it to run and execute.

Kobojunkie:
There is no mention that Adam and Eve did not have sex while in the Garden of Eden, and there is also no mention that the first babies born to man was conceived after man and woman left the Garden of Eden.

"Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant.
When she gave birth to Cain, she said, “With the LORD’s help, I have produced a man!”
(i.e. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain,
and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.)"
- Genesis 4:1

It was after being driven out of Eden that the Genesis 4:1 sexual relation and conceiving happened

Kobojunkie:
If both father and mother are embued with sin, Does that not jettison your initial claims about the virgin birth then?

The reason why a virgin birth was necessary, was so that the paternity of Jesus Christ would not be contested or disputed. So that it wouldn't be argued that an earthly male fathered Jesus Christ

Kobojunkie:
But what about the sin-filled woman involved in said birth?
Remember your recent comment that

"When Adam sinned, sin entered the world.
Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
(i.e. For just as by the agency of one-man, sin entered the universe, and by means of sin, death,
in this way death passed by this sin unto all the children of men, because all of them have sinned)"
- Romans 5:12

The man, Adam is the focus, not the woman, not Eve. You're shaking down the wrong tree

Kobojunkie:
So, even though He was born of the holy spirit, since He shared his mother's blood means He too was born of sin, I mean Jesus Christ?

"But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin"
- 1 John 3:5

"God had Christ, who was sinless, take our sin so that we might receive God's approval through him"
- 2 Corinthians 5:21

"For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet He did not sin."
- Hebrews 4:15

Jesus, by virtue of not having an earthly father was born sinless. He had every opportunity to sin, but He did not sin and so until when sentenced to death remained sinless, lmao.

PRE4:
You dont get it.
Mary was a virgin, that was why God chose to let Jesus come through her. There was no sexual intercourse before Christ was conceived if not he will have partaked in the sinful nature and will not be able to die for the world sin.

Virginity, isn't a criteria for absolving of the sinful nature at all. Whether you are a virgin or not a virgin, you still automatically inherit the sinful nature, all thanks to the father, lmao

Kobojunkie:
And we are back to the problem again... what happens when two virgins, one male and the other female, decide to have a test-tube baby which is then artificially implanted into the female virgin's womb?
Note: No sexual intercourse involved.

A problem created from failure in understanding correctly how sinful nature is transmitted. Inasmuch as you have the male somehow involved, you cant escape not having the sinful nature, lmao

PRE4:
Remember in this process [in vitro fertilisation], sperm and egg is required and this contains blood.

[img]https://s6/images/s-l640.jpg[/img]
You must have heard the saying enough times, "it is in the blood, its in their DNA"

I am sure you are aware, it isn't even necessary to have sperm and egg to conceive, lmao. Ordinarily eggs can be made from adult skin cells to make babies (i.e. New Scientist 21 Oct 2016 edition)

Kobojunkie:
So? Since sexual intercourse is avoided, what is the problem?

How far down this rabbit hole are you guys going to take this, lmao

Oldoinyolengai:
In Israel historical sites as well as in Vatican.

Jesus Christ's corpse in two places?
Which one is the real corpse abeg?
And who decided it was indeed Jesus's corpse?

Oldoinyolengai:
I always wonder if Jesus had XY chromosomes like other men.

If he had XY chromosomes, of what origin was his Y-Chtomosome?

Since Jesus' remains are still available, can't Achiologists do the needful?

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]

Now, from females being XX and males being XY, the Holy Spirit had to step in to offer the Y in its provided XY chromosomes, so a male Jesus Christ be formed, and one such that is free of any earthly father sinful nature, that would have been inherited as per what Psalm 51:5 is messaging about. Had it been an earthly father was involved in forming and conceiving, then Jesus would have inherited all the undesirables and baggages. Look at Isaac, the Holy Spirit didnt fall upon Sarah. It was the miraculous of of reversing Abraham's impotency and Sarah's menopause that produced Isaac, another unique birth, but this one, is of the different kind to Jesus' birth (i.e. begotten son in Hebrews 11:17 above)

Kobojunkie:
Where?

Oldoinyolengai:
In Israel historical sites as well as in Vatican.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ's corpse in two places?
Which one is the real corpse abeg?
And who decided it was indeed Jesus's corpse?

"⁹Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
¹⁰ And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
¹¹ who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven?
This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven"
- Acts 1:9-11

Is it the same Jesus seen ascended to Heaven, that is in Israel historical sites as well as in Vatican, hmm?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ's corpse in two places?
Which one is the real corpse abeg?
And who decided it was indeed Jesus's corpse?

Ever come across Zero hour? A movie intended to reveal what is now your curiosity before it was forbidden.

Oldoinyolengai:
Ever come across Zero hour? A movie intended to reveal what is now your curiosity before it was forbidden.

I think I may have seen that movie some time ago.
But we live in an age where nothing is truly hidden anymore.

MuttleyLaff,thank you very much

PRE4:
MuttleyLaff,thank you very much

He did not back up any of the claims you made, so what are you thanking him for?
He seems to disagree with you. So?

Kobojunkie:
He did not back up any of the claims you made, so what are you thanking him for?
He seems to disagree with you. So?

He buttressed most of my point and corrected me in the wrong one and i learnt because no one is an island of knowledge,as for you,back off.

PRE4:
He buttressed most of my point and corrected me in the wrong one and i learnt because no one is an island of knowledge,as for you,back off.

Oh, you learnt from him? But you ran away instead I asked of the claims you made in what you supposedly wanted others to learn from?

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

As far as Jesus Christ is concerned, we are not islands after all Jesus Christ did not leave us orphans as the Spirit of Truth who lives in us teaches us all things.
But since you choose instead to learn from men and not from Jesus Christ, I guess...

Kobojunkie:
He did not back up any of the claims you made, so what are you thanking him for?

I complemented all he typed, to emphasize the very good points he made.

Kobojunkie:
He seems to disagree with you. So?

"Abosi akan, omi ni ootu" loosely translated means "The tittle-tattle crab, gets exposed with water"
It is you actually, on all fronts, I disagreed with

MuttleyLaff:
I complemented all he typed, to emphasize the very good points he made.

You did nothing of the sort.

MuttleyLaff:
"Abosi akan, omi ni ootu" loosely translated means "The tittle-tattle crab, gets exposed with water"
It is you actually, on all fronts, I disagreed with

Really? When all I did was pose questions of what was claimed in the original?
And by introducing your own doctrine, you have also created more questions.. interesting but that is by the way...

PRE4:
He buttressed most of my point and corrected me in the wrong one and i learnt because no one is an island of knowledge,as for you,back off.

Don't waste your breath, ink and time on him

Kobojunkie:
Oh, you learnt from him? But you ran away instead I asked of the claims you made in what you supposedly wanted others to learn from?

As far as Jesus Christ is concerned, we are not islands after all Jesus Christ did not leave us orphans as the Spirit of Truth who lives in us teaches us all things.
But since you choose instead to learn from men and not from Jesus Christ, I guess...

"People learn from one another,
just as iron sharpens iron."
- Proverbs 27:17

"Conceited people can never become wise, but intelligent people learn easily.
(i.e. Make fun of wisdom, and you will never find it.
But if you have understanding, knowledge comes easily.)"
- Proverbs 14:6

"Apollos started speaking bravely in the synagogue.
But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him to their home
and helped him understand God's Way even better."
- Acts 18:26

The Spirit of Truth, who lives in us, works in mysterious ways, lmao.

MuttleyLaff:
The Spirit of Truth, who lives in us, works in mysterious ways, lmao.

That is a classic one...
Interesting!
the very same excuse that so-called MOGs use in perpetuating their many doctrines and traditions around the world today, all in the name of God.

Kobojunkie:
You did nothing of the sort.

You wouldn't know

Kobojunkie:
Really? When all I did was pose questions of what was claimed in the original?

and with that digging yourself into a rabbit hole

Kobojunkie:
And by introducing your own doctrine,

The alleged doctrine is what, hmm?

Kobojunkie:
you have also created more questions.. interesting but that is by the way...

The list of the questions created are what?

Kobojunkie:
... But since you choose instead to learn from men and not from Jesus Christ, I guess...

Be reading the Bible upside down. OK? Continue. Smh.

Kobojunkie:
That is a classic one...
Interesting!
the very same excuse that so-called MOGs use in perpetuating their many doctrines and traditions around the world today, all in the name of God.

Classic ko, chassis ni

Kobojunkie, be clutching straws there and be busy groping for a black cat in a dark room, especially when there is no cat in it, lmao.

You think there's a tithe, "fake it, till you make it", "blab it and grab it" "name it and claim it" "prosperity gospel" "staged healing" fake prophecy et cetera merchandise on display here, hmm? You think proselytising is on offer here, hmm?