₦airaland Forum

emmanuelewumi:
A lot of money to be made and lost, for those who invests in bubbles and those who enjoy speculation. Those are the gamblers and not Investors.

GonFreecss1:
Almost 130 billion USD.

And his companies market cap is 460 billion USD. See? Now that’s a sustainable business, sustainable for investors.

Nigsrdumb:
You lose money when you don't understand what you are doing sir.

Every stock has fundamentals and est target price.

Know your entries and exit. Exercise patience.

It's that simple.

As far as risk and rewards go , it doesn't get better than stocks.

1millionBoys:
My Tbills of 10m will mature in a few days'. In the absence of what to do with it, I am thinking of opening a Domiciliary account and putting it there at least to cushion the effects of further naira devaluation/ depreciation.

What do you think?

And which bank is best for domiciliary accounts.

Cc
Ahiboilandgas
Emmanuelewumi
Fairfora

Sholapey
Benzboys

Etc

emmanuelewumi:
Tesla does not have fundamentals, Buffet will not invest in such.

What is the total revenue of Tesla? Compare with the valuation of Tesla.

More of speculations

GonFreecss1:
Price to Earnings ratio.

emmanuelewumi:
Google investopedia and read up on price earning ratio

Nigsrdumb:
Well if you bought tesla in march when it was 360, d fundamentals would've sound because the est target price was 500>.

Essentially it's not what you buy that matters, more like what's the idea behind what you bought.

emmanuelewumi:
It is still buying on hope. Any capital appreciation that is not supported by the earnings and profitability of a business can't withstand the test of time, it is a bubble waiting to explode. Did you experience the bubbles of the dotcom era.

Tesla is currently valued at $1.5 Trillion, made a revenue of about $20 billion in 2019 and also made a loss.

Assuming all the revenue turned to profit, which is not possible, they will pay salaries, bank loans, taxes etc. It will take take 75 years to break even.

The idea behind what they are buying is hope, speculation, gambling and looking for another mugu to sell to

Imabong80:
emmanuelewumi, ahiboilandgas & emmasoft and other well meaning gurus in the house

Please I have NTB which I bought at 12.4% worth about 47m maturing on the 13th of August this year. I need objective advise on what next to do as this is my main source of upkeep monthly.

Half plots in Surulere sell for about 12m and people build 1bedroom mini flat and studio apartment on a 2 storey building for about 35m.

Generally rent for such apartment go for 450 to 350k respectively. I visited a site where a developer was doing 4nos mini flat on each floor of the 2storey building. He said he'll be renting out for 400k each In a nutshell, expected returns annually is about 4.5m.

Now that NTB rates has taken a nosedive, would this be a good investment? What are the pros and cons? Any banana peels to avoid? What other investment are available to try that guarantee capital preservation?

Nigsrdumb:
Not really if a stock is undervalued, i don't think that's a gamble. You have to look deeper at the reason for the discount, if there's isn't anything drastically different apart from a few externalities, then it's simply a waiting game.

Will i buy tesla now, heck no, would i have bought in march hell yes.

Nigsrdumb:
Not really if a stock is undervalued, i don't think that's a gamble. You have to look deeper at the reason for the discount, if there's isn't anything drastically different apart from a few externalities, then it's simply a waiting game.

Will i buy tesla now, heck no, would i have bought in march hell yes.

Imabong80:
emmanuelewumi, ahiboilandgas & emmasoft and other well meaning gurus in the house

Please I have NTB which I bought at 12.4% worth about 47m maturing on the 13th of August this year. I need objective advise on what next to do as this is my main source of upkeep monthly.

Half plots in Surulere sell for about 12m and people build 1bedroom mini flat and studio apartment on a 2 storey building for about 35m.

Generally rent for such apartment go for 450 to 350k respectively. I visited a site where a developer was doing 4nos mini flat on each floor of the 2storey building. He said he'll be renting out for 400k each In a nutshell, expected returns annually is about 4.5m.

Now that NTB rates has taken a nosedive, would this be a good investment? What are the pros and cons? Any banana peels to avoid? What other investment are available to try that guarantee capital preservation?

GonFreecss1:
I remember when the crypto market was booming and Bitcoin went up to 20K USD. Many friends said the same. I said the same. When I think about the losses I incurred I laugh at myself, and it has changed the way I think.

Invest in the US, but my advice? Focus more on their index funds. So you can sleep at night. Peacefully.

Imabong80:
emmanuelewumi, ahiboilandgas & emmasoft and other well meaning gurus in the house

Please I have NTB which I bought at 12.4% worth about 47m maturing on the 13th of August this year. I need objective advise on what next to do as this is my main source of upkeep monthly.

Half plots in Surulere sell for about 12m and people build 1bedroom mini flat and studio apartment on a 2 storey building for about 35m.

Generally rent for such apartment go for 450 to 350k respectively. I visited a site where a developer was doing 4nos mini flat on each floor of the 2storey building. He said he'll be renting out for 400k each In a nutshell, expected returns annually is about 4.5m.

Now that NTB rates has taken a nosedive, would this be a good investment? What are the pros and cons? Any banana peels to avoid? What other investment are available to try that guarantee capital preservation?

emmanuelewumi:
It is still buying on hope. Any capital appreciation that is not supported by the earnings and profitability of a business can't withstand the test of time, it is a bubble waiting to explode. Did you experience the bubbles of the dotcom era.

Tesla is currently valued at $1.5 Trillion, made a revenue of about $20 billion in 2019 and also made a loss.

Assuming all the revenue turned to profit, which is not possible, they will pay salaries, bank loans, taxes etc. It will take take 75 years to break even.

The idea behind what they are buying is hope, speculation, gambling and looking for another mugu to sell to

Nigsrdumb:
That's true, but there's too much money to be made. There's also a technique.

A combination of scalping, swinging, investing will deliver results.

If you gave a blind man money to invest in any company since march he'd be loaded by now .

Trust me im right in the middle of what's happening.

I will never invest a penny in Nigerian securities again. Like never. I don see where money dey. Mind u it was a comment u made earlier this year that got me into this.

LordAdam16:
The "bubble" label gets thrown about loosely as a catch-all phrase. When careful introspection will perhaps add more nuance.

Informed investors buying Tesla in 2020 are making a bet that it'd be an Amazon not an Intel.

Both companies are market leaders in their own right. Both companies made outlandish gains in the dotcom bubble and got wrecked in the ensuring fracas. But while Intel only just reached their peak Dotcom stock price this year after 20 odd years; Amazon trades at circa $3000 against a peak dot com stock price of $100+.

Buffett missed Amazon and until recently missed Apple. Value investors railed against Amazon for over a decade, today the Bezos' (him, his ex-wife, and parents) are worth a joint $300b.

Many industry watchers see Tesla as an Amazon. It's not specialist company like Intel that's only about chips.

Tesla is a software, car, energy, manufacturing behemoth with a get-it-done genius CEO who built a f*cking rocket company from scratch and took the entire Russian space industry, Boeing, and other industry titans to the cleaners. His type don't come often and their bet on him are about as risky as betting on a Ketchup company (which Buffett flailed on).

Is there an imminent correction in the horizon? Sure.

But if you compare Tesla today with Amazon in its formative years, there are a lot of obvious similarities which many are picking up on. Amazon also had a painful correction, but left all that in the lurch when they took off.

Green energy is the future and Tesla is racking up indisputable leadership in all the key vectors--cars, software, battery technology, and manufacturing capacity/processes. And it's almost inevitable that like Amazon found with cloud computing (AWS) and Apple found with the iPhone; that Tesla might well stumble upon the next big money spinner in energy with the dominance they accrue.

Now that may not pan out. Bezos famously told his parents there was a 70% chance they wouldn't see their money ever again (which was their life savings). But today, his parents are worth $30b. Tesla might not make the same returns for its investors but this idea that they're cuckoo is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

You either have the stomach to go all in with Tesla or you don't. Neither should be an indictment of one's financial savviness. The former group is channeling their inner Nostradamus while the latter group is channeling their inner Herodotus.

-Lord

emmanuelewumi:
Very good, make enquiries about other expenses like Omonile, LASG approval and include them into your overall budget. Involve a trusted law firm or estate management firm in your transaction.

While shopping for the next investment outlet, move your cash to a money market fund

ahiboilandgas:
what part of surulere is it ? Rent look low .......land 12m 3 bedroom on 2 floors 15m rents 750kx 3 ....remaining 20m put in bonds at 12 .....u will be getting around 80 percents of last year income

abraolas1:
Can you Explained more on this Sir

abraolas1:
Can you Explained more on this Sir

Tobex4realTobex234:
It's not even wise for anyone to be betting on the U.S stocks of today. For lack of better words, it's downright dumb.

Most stocks are at an ATH. Even the SPY index fund $VOO is at an all time. Unemployment is skyrocketing, yet stocks are at an All Time High. Even 2 months ago, Trump tweeted that Tesla stock price was very high in his opinion, at that time price was just about $700. How is anyone thinking the current US market isn't devoid of fundamentals?

People that lost millions of dollars buying Hertz and Akorn are yet to recover.

emmanuelewumi:
It is a bubble based on its valuation, currently at a PE of over 1000 as I heard. Even if the business starts making profit next years, which is not possible in the next 3 years, profit must continue to grow at 100% every year for the next 10 years before pay back. How possible is an earning growth rate of 100%

LordAdam16:
Amazon had a peak PE of 3633 in 2012. No one is calling it a bubble today.

Tesla is not in an historically anemic industry like education. It's in tech and disrupting a critical sector that's undergoing an industrial-revolution-sized change as we speak. Facebook, Google, PayPal are a number of companies that have made calculator-breaking returns in record time.

Google's revenue went from 70m in 2001 to 36b in 2010. What's that percentage growth rate?

Tesla currently generates 24b. Ten years ago, Musk had to metaphorically go on his knees to get $50m from Daimler. What's that percentage growth rate?

Tesla's intrinsic dominance and capabilities mirrors those aforementioned disruptors. Consequently, its believers aren't your average Wall St nut who's obsessed with the next quarter. A model is only as good as the assumptions thrown in. And if you're assessing the trajectory of a once-in-a-decade unicorn tech company like that of a construction company, you're making a fatal error.

Now I wouldn't fault you if you said you only invested in sectors you understand. For instance I wouldn't invest in a biotech company and I have above average competence in that field. But the Munger-style bluster rubs me the wrong way. Because it crowds out painstaking analysis.

Everyone is shell shocked by Tesla's meteoric rise, even Musk himself. But you'd be remiss to mistake the current borderline-excessive optimism for a bubble.

-Lord

talk2tonie:
Pls where do I get this 12% bonds from?.
Few weeks ago when I contacted stanbic brokers for secondary market bond I couldn’t understand the calculations from the quote they sent.

emmanuelewumi:
Currently around 9%, watch the bond market space for opportunities as they emerge

GonFreecss1:
So an index fund basically tracks or mimics the performance of an index.

Examples of Indexes are...

1. Dow Jones Industrial average
2. Nasdaq composite
3. Russell 2000
4. Standard and Poor’s 500 index (S&P 500).

Indexes represent a segment of the financial markets.

So some investment houses create these instruments (the Index funds) so investors can key into them.

So as the US stock market or the market with that particular index is booming, the index fund booms too.
These indexes mimic the market, market is down, your portfolio will be down, market is up your portfolio will be up. I have been looking at the indexes for a while and their returns are quite spectacular for dollar investments.

Thanks to people like John Bogle and Warren Buffet who has opened peoples eyes.

My First[Bank] Journey: End of the Beginning
Thirteen years ago, I resigned from FirstBank after just three months at the bank as a Banking Assistant (or something of that sort). On the day of my resignation, I sent the letter below to Jacobs Ajekigbe (MD of FirstBank), Bernadine Okeke (Head of Human Capital Management) and Remi Babalola (a former Executive Director) who had just left to take a role as the Minister of State for Finance.

“Dear Sir/Ma,

We thought we had it bad last month when my colleagues and I were paid a sum of N46, 946.61 as our monthly salary. Not in our wildest dreams could we have imagined that that was just the tip of the ice-berg. Unfortunately, I waited too long to make the decision to leave hoping for the best. But finally, last week, I informed my BM of my decision and while some of my colleagues questioned my decision, this month’s salary of N43,946.61 (although only N41,133 made it into our accounts) blew away all contrary views.

It is therefore with both joy and regrets that I say ‘Adieu’. Joy that I’ve escaped FirstBank’s humiliating rat-trap and regret that an organization with such potential could be caught in this kind of situation. Especially painful and bewildering is the fact that management saw no reason to give any reason for the reversal (of our salaries from N89,000 to N56,000) and this even after our numerous mails of complaint. Instead we got a memo from Mrs. Bernadine (Head, HCM) informing us of the right way to exit the bank! Oh, what respect FirstBank has for its staff and what value it attaches to them!

In this age and environment, it is immoral and socially irresponsible for any organization that can boast of an annual turnover in excess of N96billion and PAT of a whooping N20.4billion (the highest so far in the industry and a turnover-to-profit conversion ratio of 21.25%) to pay the same staff which made it possible such meager wages. But the fact remains that we could have done much better if only we had been a bit more motivated. Though not many seem to realize, in relative terms, FirstBank now lags seriously behind a number of its competitors. For our experience, staff strength, branch network, assets, brand name – although that is fast becoming a liability –, type of funds available etc, it is a disgrace to be slugging it out with the likes of Zenith Bank.

After all is said, the strength of an organization does not lie in its size (“Great men are not always wise”), age (“Neither do the aged understand wisdom”) or the amount of funds it can raise from the market. It lies in the quality of the people that make it up. And it goes without saying that the worth of an organisation’s staff can only be expressed first and foremost in their remuneration for services rendered. I refuse to believe that all I’m worth is only N41,000. I believe that I have a right to get an adequate explanation when my wages are being toyed with. I believe … but I guess it doesn’t matter anymore.

Of ‘cos I’m only one man out of a thousand, so my exit doesn’t really matter, right? Wrong! And anyone who believes that should be sacked. The success of any organization depends on everyone in that organization, from the lowliest doorkeeper who is courtly to customers to the Chairman who might not even be aware of where the bank’s profit comes from. And remember, a stitch in time really does save nine. A quote from Procter & Gamble:

“If you leave us our money, our buildings, and our brands, but take away our people, the company will fail. But if you take away our money, our buildings, and our brands, but leave us our people, we can rebuild the whole thing in a decade.” No wonder P&G is today the world’s second largest producer of consumer goods. The question: Can FirstBank also say the same?

In all, my experience in FirstBank was a pleasant one. It was with pride that I put on my lapel pin every morning and with the joy of a task accomplished that I put it down at night. The smile on a customer’s face and the sound of ‘Thank you’ always made my day. I hope that joy and pride will be enough to keep my colleagues that will be staying going on.

I do hope I haven’t ‘burnt any bridges’, as I would love to have the opportunity to come back much later to contribute my own quota in making FirstBank truly the first. Though I might not exactly patronize FirstBank after I leave, FirstBank will always be my bank… especially if I get the shares I applied for.

So again, with both joy and regrets, I say ‘Adieu!’



Beecroft, John O.

SN021211, Class Governor (May Induction Set)”



Unlike the first letter I sent (you can read that here), my resignation letter became instantly famous; it found its way around the bank and then outside. I got swamped with calls from people who wanted to know the young graduate who had the audacity to send the MD such a letter – some from FirstBank wanted to thank me for standing up, some counselled me to go apologise for my ‘destiny-destroying’ mistake, and some just wanted gossip.

I sent the letter in the morning and that same day, the MD of FirstBank, Jacob Ajekigbe, sent for me. Of course, I was worried as I was ushered into his office. He stormed and raged for the first 15mins or so while I sat there very timid. He even had a member of his staff on hand to provide evidence showing what the bank had done for people. But after the initial storming, he listened to me and we spent the next hour and a half talking cordially. The funny part was that he did admire my writing skills and offered me a job in the Head Office, with access to him. I respectfully declined; the bridge had to be burnt.

His main grouse though was that he felt deeply offended that I thought it okay to insult the bank because I had gotten a better paying job. Probably to scare me, he picked his phone and said he was going to ask Fola (GTB) and Jim (Zenith) if I had gotten a job with them. But I didn’t have another job, neither was I expecting one at that time. And of course, after just three months into my first job, I didn’t have any savings built up. Luckily for me though, I had a place to lay my head in my parents’ house and there I stayed for the next 4 months while searching for the next thing.

Those were tough months and my pride took some permanent damage. It was humiliating spending the whole day doing house chores as a man, while others went to work. It was embarrassing going out with my girlfriend and then pretending to be busy when it was time to pay so others wouldn’t see I had no money. I sent out the usual solicited and unsolicited job-seeking applications, and when I got no reply, sent new ones offering to work for free! And so went the months, until job offers came from Nigeria LNG and Mobil.

Joining NLNG that December didn’t end my problems though. I remember we were given $500 to buy warm clothing in preparation for our trip to the UK for training in January. But I couldn’t just up and leave with the debts I was owing. I paid off my friends with the money, and left for the cruel British winter with the normal clothes I had. Lordy lordy lord… I’ve never been so miserable in my entire life! The cold came for me like it was something personal. And I still haven’t forgotten the laughter and insults from some of my colleagues as I literarily froze – they had concluded I was just being stingy.

Despite all that, I realise that leaving FirstBank was probably the best decision I ever made. Though made quickly, the decision was not hasty. It came from a place of anger (at being cheated) and conviction (of my self-worth). I had joined FirstBank as a detour on my entrepreneurship journey, but the training school did too good a job – somehow, they convinced us that we were the next set of gamechangers in the industry. Yet after all the hype, the series of actions FirstBank took that period was evidence that it had lost its way. I wasn’t going to lose mine.



I was angry at being cheated, but more importantly, I realised that not taking action would permanently damage my sense of self-worth – because to a large extent, your salary is actually a reflection of what the organization thinks you are worth. Accepting that salary without doing anything to change it means you accept the valuation. And a job that does damage to your confidence is a job you shouldn’t have. To put things in perspective, I would have felt happier working as a waiter for half that amount at that time, knowing I had something better to look ahead to. But FirstBank was supposed to be my ‘ahead’ then and the actions they took gave me absolutely no hope to look forward to, so I quit.

What do I say to others? Should you quit that job that pays you peanuts? Should you close down that business? There are no easy answers here, especially when the person involved is not as fortunate as I was to have somewhere to sleep without bothering about rent. The truth is that we all know if/when it’s time to leave, but knowing and having the liver are two different things already. It’s a personal thing; the answers have to come from deep within, from a place of deep conviction. Yes, the cost would be high and there are absolutely no guarantees of success. But whoever heard of great gain without equal sacrifice?

Anyway, that was the end of my first journey. Looking back now, I remain pretty proud of the decision I made that day. It has enabled me take many more tough decisions over the years especially in my many business ventures – a failed mutual fund started during the 2008 stock market boom, a failed supermarket venture that almost made me hypertensive before my 30th birthday, an ill-advised dabble into a bureau de change, a fast-food restaurant that never saw the light of day, a struggling water & juice production factory, a real estate development company (Tetramanor) and… Writing that letter, burning that FirstBank bridge, gave me the courage to keep moving forward all these years without fear. Staying back at the bank with spirit crushed would have condemned me to a life of fear and hesitation.

I know many out there would find it way more difficult than I did to take the same steps. There is really no guarantee that things would turn out right, but there is every guarantee that the road would be hard. So why do it? Why venture into the unknown? That is for you to answer. But if you’re like me and the answer is positively clear in your mind, then know this: You’ll never ever find true satisfaction in that day job, no matter how comfortable. The world is yours to conquer!

In my typical way, I have gambled a whole lot on Tetramanor and I struggle daily, utilizing the lessons of the past, to make it work. Still, if it does not turn out to be the great success I want it to be, it would just be the end of another journey. I will keep walking.

John O. Beecroft

emmanuelewumi:
Can you share a link to the price the share price in 2012 and the current share price.

Tesla $25 billion revenue, no profit and $1.5 Trillion current valuation.

Use profit and not revenue for your compounded annual growth rate

Nigsrdumb:
That's true, but there's too much money to be made. There's also a technique.

A combination of scalping, swinging, investing will deliver results.

If you gave a blind man money to invest in any company since march he'd be loaded by now .

Trust me im right in the middle of what's happening.

I will never invest a penny in Nigerian securities again. Like never. I don see where money dey. Mind u it was a comment u made earlier this year that got me into this.