LandMann:


I don't know what you are trying to insinuate by format but please don't misrepresent my message. If you don't understand my post kindly pass. I made a mistake quoting you and this would be the last time.

Does your quote add money to my account? Who cares if you quote or not??

Total bank loan as at March 2019 was over N15 Trillion.

Godbpraised:
What would you rather have investors do than invest in sukuk or just allow thier money sit ideal in the bank.

Me thinks investing in the sukuk was a fair deal

.

Sukuk is a bad deal.

For example, if you buy gold now and keep with the money, you will earn more than you will earn from sukuk by the time sukuk of now matures.

That's the only certain investment I know won't backfire.

Others involve you doing your due diligence and starting or investing in a business that would pay you above 14% which is the official inflation rate... or above 20% which is the closer to the unofficial inflation rate.

Alternatively, you can look for excellent financial advisors to advise you if you have a significant amount. The fee you will pay them, provided their advise is solid, is certainly going to be a fraction of what you stand to lose in sukuk.

What some of us don't realize is that we also have a lot foreign Investors buying Nigerian fixed income Investments.

LandMann:
Problem 1

There's so much cash flowing in the country and most of these are not being put to productive use because many of the ingredients needed for businesses to thrive are lacking, power especially.

Problem 2

Treasury bills was being used to mop up excess liquidity or cash in the system...hence the initial attractive rates... however, this created or creates two problems....

With a corrupt government, most of the funds realized from treasury bills sales end up being looted and funnelled again into treasury bills, instead of being use to provide real infrastructure.

Second problem it created or creates is that high interest on treasury bills kills the spirit of productivity and ingenuity and commerce and all those positives that lead to more thriving businesses....

Everybody would rather sit back, throw their money to the government to earn interest and do nothing, expecting the government to use the funds wisely to create infrastructure... Unfortunately, most of it is looted and returned to treasury bills or other financial instruments.

Solution 1

Treasury bills rates needs to/have been crashed to discourage Nigerians from putting their money there... This is to force us or indirectly encourage everyone to invest in the real sector or watch inflation wipe away the value of your idle cash.

Everyone seems to be turning to other repackaged government financial investments but it seems we will only end up making the same mistakes made with treasury bills, especially if we still have hawks in government waiting to loot any funds realized by selling such investments to Nigerians.

Appeal

Please, those who are more experienced in the area of commerce and real sector investments should promote their ideas and take in willing candidates and mentor them

There are millionaires and even billionaires in this this group... Let us come together and set up businesses... If we can pull resources together, there are profitable businesses that we can go.

Examples

1. Nothing stops us from pulling resources together, buying or renting a large expanse of land and setting up cattle ranches in areas in the West, South or East. This solves the incessant farmer herders clashes.

2. How about pulling resources together and setting up a factory to mill palm kernel oil? This is a very profitable business if setup and managed well, and I know a place where this will be very profitable but limited by lack of funding and technical know-how which someone or some persons in this thread may have.

This country is ours and we will either build it or destroy it unknowingly by our actions and inactions

This would sound like music only to those who have never lost money

I have noticed that some persons whom I will refer to as “Real Economy Advocate” Usually come to this thread once in a while to advocate for investing in the real economy.

While I some times enjoy the argument for and against because it is educating; please note that some of us here prefer to invest in fixed income, equity and real estate because we are salary earners; and do not have time for business since it requires our presence. There is a difference between business and investment. Obviously, investment does not require much of our time. Kindly let us invest in peace, we will go into the real economy for you when we have the time.

IyaTola:
Good afternoon to all Ogas. Pls my friend need advice on her nvestment

The situation is real but the amount invested not exact.

She has a 12.4 Mar 2036 BOND with a yield of 13.9 %
14.4m was invested in October 2019.

Amount to be paid on maturity is 16.3m.(bought on discount)

Yearly coupon is about 2m

Total amount to realise on maturity is 48m assuming the coupons are not invested.

Now, if she liquidate the investment today, she will realise about 20m becos of drop in rates.
She can decide to invest the 20m in stocks at a minimum dividend yield of 15% for the next 16 years

Should she keep the bond till maturity or liquidate and invest in stocks.

Thanks in advance she reading as a guest.

What do you have in your investment portfolio eg bonds, money market, Eurobonds, real estate, equity, small business etc.

For now I am very bullish about the stock market.

So I will advise selling half at N10 million. The remaining bond will generate an annual coupon of N1 million for the next 16 years

Zenith bank, UBA, APR, United Capital will give you a dividend yield of 15% and above.

Dangote cement, Lafarge, Dangote sugar, Julius Berger will give you a dividend yield of about 12%.

If you are considering investments that are linked to forex, you can consider Seplat and Airtel.

Seplat paid dividend 2 months ago at $1 to N350.

Airtel paid yesterday at $1 to N430

maishai:
This would sound like music only to those who have never lost money

We have been there before. Experience is the best teacher

Smart people learn from the experience of others

emmanuelewumi:



Salaries of employees deducted for pension, less than 20% of bank deposits, dividends from investments, rental income.

There is a limit of the total bank deposits that can be Invested in fixed income.

If this was true then Nigeria won't have such a challenge with inflation.

For an economy to balance,

Money supply = value of goods and services available.

If money supply > value of goods and services available then it results is inflation.


Majority of funds put into financial securities come from money not earned by production of goods and services in the real sector.

This money where not earned from producing any good or service, else the economy will continue to run fine with low inflation.

Majority of the funds you see there come from kickbacks from inflated contracts... outrightly embezzled funds that could have been used to provide a service or infrastructure somewhere... money earned from yahoo, scams and other illegal activities that doesn't result in producing real goods or services.

This money end up chasing few goods, resulting in rising inflation....

This money also end up chasing few tbills resulting in over subscription thus leading to low interest.


So Nigeria now has an ugly situation of low interest and high inflation which beats rational thinking because low interest should result in low inflation... or high inflation should result in high interest.

For me, the only way out is an aggressive stimulation of the real sector plus an aggressive, and 100% sincere and effective war against corruption

Modified

For those who choose to read A and understand B, when I say real sector, it includes real estate and stocks.

emmanuelewumi:



No wonder they are not happy that some people are investing in fixed income and portfolio Investments.

I know the returns on fixed income is too low, but people will invest in what they understand. They prefer losing money to inflation than investing in what they don't understand or have the time to monitor

My cousin lost N2 million in a digital agriculture investment operated by Menorah farms, I pray he gets his fund. I warned him but didn't listen

I seriously want to use this opportuinity to advise anyone living in a city like Lagos never to invest in Agriculture except such persons grew up in the village...............................Else Such persons would learn the true nature of Agriculture BRUTALLY, I laugh when people quote Agri-prices on Nairaland, Its not that People dont make it in Agriculture but when You see the Physical exhaustion prevalent in agriculture you will thank God for 11% SUKUK bond

LandMann:


If this was true then Nigeria won't have such a challenge with inflation.

For an economy to balance,

Money supply = value of goods and services available.

If money supply > value of goods and services available then it results is inflation.


Majority of funds put into financial securities come from money not earned by production of goods and services in the real sector.

This money where not earned from producing any good or service, else the economy will continue to run fine with low inflation.

Majority of the funds you see there come from kickbacks from inflated contracts... outrightly embezzled funds that could have been used to provide a service or infrastructure somewhere... money earned from yahoo, scams and other illegal activities that doesn't result in producing real goods or services.

This money end up chasing few goods, resulting in rising inflation....

This money also end up chasing few tbills resulting in over subscription thus leading to low interest.


So Nigeria now has an ugly situation of low interest and high inflation which beats rational thinking because low interest should result in low inflation... or high inflation should result in high interest.

For me, the only way out is an aggressive stimulation of the real sector plus an aggressive, and 100% sincere and effective war against corruption

Block corruption, reduce cost of governance, reduce population growth rate, savings and Investments should be our way of life from the citizens to business organisations and governments.

The investment community, Businesses and regulators should come up with Investment products, derivatives which Investors can invest in that will stimulate the economy. These products can be equity or debt based

emmanuelewumi:



What do you have in your investment portfolio eg bonds, money market, Eurobonds, real estate, equity, small business etc.

For now I am very bullish about the stock market.

So I will advise selling half at N10 million. The remaining bond will generate an annual coupon of N1 million for the next 16 years

Zenith bank, UBA, APR, United Capital will give you a dividend yield of 15% and above.

Dangote cement, Lafarge, Dangote sugar, Julius Berger will give you a dividend yield of about 12%.

If you are considering investments that are linked to forex, you can consider Seplat and Airtel.

Seplat paid dividend 2 months ago at $1 to N350.

Airtel paid yesterday at $1 to N430

Thank you very much for sharing this. Now, I will go ahead and update my equity portfolio with some of these stocks.

talk2tonie:


Thank you very much for sharing this. Now, I will go ahead and update my equity portfolio with some of these stocks.

Please do your due diligence oooo

emmanuelewumi:



Please do your due diligence oooo

Yes boss. I will.
Thanks.

LandMann:


Investors ought to be rational but I guess being rational is mostly subjective in this part of the world.

Information asymmetry exist so much in our economy that makes making rational decisions difficult. Thus, supposed rational decisions turn to irrational decisions if examined under the microscope of economics. This is worse in the financial sector where most investors just rush at financial instruments offering interest rates that can't even cover for inflation...

Look at sukuk for instance... 11.2% interest rate while official inflation rate is (14%)... unofficial inflation is over 20%.

Would you say that investing in Sukuk is rational given these parameters?

The real sector as represented by the stock market is the another good alternative right now because it also represents individuals pulling resources together to invest in the real sector.

A downside to them is you have to do your due diligence to avoid putting your money into a sinking company.

Salary Earners Quitting Their Job?

I certainly can't suggest that they quit their job... But putting their hard earned salary in interest bearing investments that pay less than 14% is bad investment because they are losing in the real sense.

I have read twice on your comments that official inflation is 14%. Are you referring to Nigeria or Ghana. The last I checked, inflation was 12.56%.

Look at this scenario

Mr. A invests 20M in sukuk at 11.3%.
He gets rental payment of 2.26M annually paid twice in a year.
He invests his coupon in buying GTB, Zenith, Dangote Cement or Nestle.

Dividends paid go into Money market fund, waiting for opportunities to launch in.

Has he not invested in the real sector?
He mustn't go and open a business or a start up before he gets involved in the real sector and employ labour. His investment in the capital market keeps the business running as well. That's why he gets his dividend.

I think there is a difference between entrepreneurship and real sector. One is a subset of the other.

From this analysis,

Mr A is doing fine.

talk2tonie:


Yes boss. I will.
Thanks.

Part of the money from the Sukuk will come to Dangote cement, Lafarge and Julius Berger for the construction of roads, bridges and other infrastructures

unite4real:

I have read twice on your comments that official inflation is 14%. Are you referring to Nigeria or Ghana. The last I checked, inflation was 12.56%.

Look at this scenario

Mr. A invests 20M in sukuk at 11.3%.
He gets rental payment of 2.26M annually paid twice in a year.
He invests his coupon in buying GTB, Zenith, Dangote Cement or Nestle.

Dividends paid go into Money market fund, waiting for opportunities to launch in.

Has he not invested in the real sector?
He mustn't go and open a business or a start up before he gets involved in the real sector and employ labour. His investment in the capital market keeps the business running as well. That's why he gets his dividend.

I think there is a difference between entrepreneurship and real sector. One is a subset of the other.

From this analysis,

Mr A is doing fine.

We invest in the real sector by

1. Starting a business
2. Investing in debts of players in the real sector
3. Becoming a part owner, through equity investment..


Most people talking about investing in the real sector only know about number 1

An investor who invested N1 million in Okomu Oil a company in the Agricultural sector about 15 years ago, has his Investments grown to over N36 million and received dividends of N10 million in the last 5 years. Can we say that person is not investing in the real sector.


Some Investors have realized that there is no point reinventing the wheels

emmanuelewumi:



We invest in the real sector by

1. Starting a business
2. Investing in debts of players in the real sector
3. Becoming a part owner, through equity investment..


Most people talking about investing in the real sector only know about number 1

An investor who invested N1 million in Okomu Oil a company in the Agricultural sector about 15 years ago, has his Investments grown to over N36 million and received dividends of N10 million in the last 5 years. Can we say that person is not investing in the real sector.


Some Investors have realized that there is no point reinventing the wheels

That's the point.

Iyatola!

WHAT'S YOUR INTENT FOR INVESTING.

When you invest in the stock market, it's important you know why you're investing.

Is it for,

1 Wealth building.

2 For off setting a future financial need.

3 Investing for retirement.

For me this is the three major reason's most people are in the capital market.

Have you found out your core reason for being in the market.?

Understanding this will help you to know the kind of stock's to buy and how to go about it. Until you achieve your aim.

Hence the process of attaining one's goal in either of them differs from the other.

Infact most stocks in the nse right now, are at their low ebbs. No body knows lower lows anymore. If you have investable funds, keep buying fundamentally sound stock's. But to be on a safer side, buy in tranches, so you can maximize lower lows in prices, thereby reducing your lose exposure and increasing your chances of winning more in the medium to long term horizon.

CHEERS.

Emmanuel c Agubuo.

yazga:
Iyatola!

WHAT'S YOUR INTENT FOR INVESTING.

When you invest in the stock market, it's important you know why you're investing.

Is it for,

1 Wealth building.

2 For off setting a future financial need.

3 Investing for retirement.

For me this is the three major reason's most people are in the capital market.

Have you found out your core reason for being in the market.?

Understanding this will help you to know the kind of stock's to buy and how to go about it. Until you achieve your aim.

Hence the process of attaining one's goal in either of them differs from the other.

Infact most stocks in the nse right now, are at their low ebbs. No body knows lower lows anymore. If you have investable funds, keep buying fundamentally sound stock's. But to be on a safer side, buy in tranches, so you can maximize lower lows in prices, thereby reducing your lose exposure and increasing your chances of winning more in the medium to long term horizon.

CHEERS.

Emmanuel c Agubuo.

Emma na you be this?

Great inputs and suggestions. However, one rule I always emphasize is invest in what you know to be honest I no sabi the gold market.

Hence if I put my money I fit loose. So na him make me dey put my money for sukuk. Jejely. Call me a lazy investor


Lastly i belive in d principle of do it urself., I do not believe in giving some one my hard earn money to invest for me mba nu. I don learn my lesson.

LandMann:


Sukuk is a bad deal.

For example, if you buy gold now and keep with the money, you will earn more than you will earn from sukuk by the time sukuk of now matures.

That's the only certain investment I know won't backfire.

Others involve you doing your due diligence and starting or investing in a business that would pay you above 14% which is the official inflation rate... or above 20% which is the closer to the unofficial inflation rate.

Alternatively, you can look for excellent financial advisors to advise you if you have a significant amount. The fee you will pay them, provided their advise is solid, is certainly going to be a fraction of what you stand to lose in sukuk.

Kindly suggest medium or low risk investment one can do with 1m pending the busines to do

Emma wummi, Emmasoft and then another Emma, so once your name is Emma, you don be financial expert be that.

emmanuelewumi:



Emma na you be this?

I dey igadun you pass sugar. Please don't off ur mic ,
Hopefully someone will not faint.

emmanuelewumi:



We invest in the real sector by

1. Starting a business
2. Investing in debts of players in the real sector
3. Becoming a part owner, through equity investment..


Most people talking about investing in the real sector only know about number 1

An investor who invested N1 million in Okomu Oil a company in the Agricultural sector about 15 years ago, has his Investments grown to over N36 million and received dividends of N10 million in the last 5 years. Can we say that person is not investing in the real sector.


Some Investors have realized that there is no point reinventing the wheels

I now have a clear underatanding ...the 5.2m naira burial .....over 2mhas been sprayed and donations to family...some envelop still un open.....not too bad .....

Lol... na burial u go for abi na research u go do?
Incase u non know, non be who bring the lionshare of the money go collect the lion share of the spray money

ahiboilandgas:
I now have a clear underatanding ...the 5.2m naira burial .....over 2mhas been sprayed and donations to family...some envelop still un open.....not too bad .....

heavenisreal18:
Kindly suggest medium or low risk investment one can do with 1m pending the busines to do

Money Market fund

heavenisreal18:
Kindly suggest medium or low risk investment one can do with 1m pending the busines to do

I have always suggested it. mutual fund is your best bet with VGIF recommended because the rate is better than mmf presently. it's a good way to keep funds pending when you are ready for business or other ventures. I have written extensively on it on this thread and mutual fund thread. My contact is also there if you want to chat or call me.

ojesymsym:
Lol... na burial u go for abi na research u go do?
Incase u non know, non be who bring the lionshare of the money go collect the lion share of the spray money

really? I luv exploring....i drove 10 hours to the location.....i don spray xxxx....amounts too it seem na the elder sister them do special spraying for her 3 times but my guy the main financier no too get people for Najia

heavenisreal18:
Kindly suggest medium or low risk investment one can do with 1m pending the busines to do

United capital bond fund
Investment one VGIF
United capital MMF
Fbnquest MMF

ojesymsym:
Lol... na burial u go for abi na research u go do?
Incase u non know, non be who bring the lionshare of the money go collect the lion share of the spray money

will dey share the spraying money ...cos i go soon do another round....or put for evelop give my hommie