₦airaland Forum

Image123:
You don't get tired of repeating the same lies. People are converted every day in their thousands all over the world to different religions and ideologies. It is MYOPIC and continued glory in ignorance to claim that people are only Christian because they were brought up in a Christian home.

Another ignorance you delight in is the claim that theists are atheists. Either you are at a loss of the right words to use or you are unaware/ignorant yet again. A theist believes in the existence of God and of other gods. Atheists do not believe in the existence of God or other gods.
Among the gods, who is like Thee. Glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders. That is the incomparable Jehovah God. Your ceremonial degree in naivety beclouds you from knowing that the other gods do not make the claims of Jehovah God. No other God says Jesus Christ is the only way. Neither do they have the Christian concepts and teaching of hell fire. You look silly every time you bring up what does not exist about other gods and religions. Even the closest clones to Christianity do not lay claim to exclusivity like the Bible does. Go and do proper research and study, you should have become a senior fool by now, not on this level.

franklytrue:
So what is your point? State it clearly. Is Jesus coming back for His pure "bride" or not? Is there not going to be a marriage supper of the Lamb (Lamb of God - Jesus) or not?

You see from the scriptures how Enoch was translated and was taken by God for he walked very closely with God; he did not die. Also Elijah was carried into Heaven by a chariot of fire right there in the presence of Elisah. That is how the saints, the "bride" of Christ will be taken also (translated or caught up, so to speak) supernaturally

You are just quoting from your JW book. Why do you not go further at Revelation 14:13 down to vs 20?

In Revelation ch 14, vs 14 - 16 tells about the rapture while vs 17 - 20 shows the believers who were not ready and others left behind in the tribulation and during the outpour of the wrath of God which was after the Lord had reaped (carried away/'caught up') His first fruits (saints/bride) at the sound of the voice of the angel which was a similitude of the trumpet. God's own are likened to olive tree, vines or its branches, etc (See Revelation 11: 1 - 4, John 12: 24, Luke 13: 6 - 9, John 15: 1 - 9)

It may surprise you to know Elijah didn't go to heaven.

chatinent:
It may surprise you to know Elijah didn't go to heaven.

You have not answered the questions above. You are digressing.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces." - 2 Kings 2:11-12

So what did the bible say or mean there? Elijah was taken into Heaven. Enoch too was taken away (Gen 5:24). You want to explain the bible away as JW's usually do? How can you witness for a God you don't even know (only head knowledge of) or have had any experience of?

Job 42:5-6 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6

The words the Lord Jesus speak, they are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). And Jesus said that He is coming quickly. He is coming very soon. (Rev. ch 3:11, ch 22:12-13, ch 22:20). Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
If you keep taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away your part out of the book of life (Rev. 22:18-19). Beware! God is not a man that He should lie.

Exmilitant:
I am still trying to comprehend the possibilities of a flesh and blood flying into heaven to live with spirits.

Flesh and blood are not going to be raptured. 1Cor 15:51-53 our bodies shall be changed from this physical bodies to spiritual bodies.

DelphiOracle:
The term rapture is not in the Bible. A confused doctrine by the Christendom

Its called the harpazo effect!
https://www.nairaland.com/6000510/harpazo-effect

Captain9ja:
Its called the harpazo effect!
https://www.nairaland.com/6000510/harpazo-effect

hiann which one b this again o

franklytrue:
You have not answered the questions above. You are digressing.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces." - 2 Kings 2:11-12

So what did the bible say or mean there? Elijah was taken into Heaven. Enoch too was taken away (Gen 5:24). You want to explain the bible away as JW's usually do? How can you witness for a God you don't even know (only head knowledge of) or have had any experience of?

Job 42:5-6 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6

The words the Lord Jesus speak, they are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). And Jesus said that He is coming quickly. He is coming very soon. (Rev. ch 3:11, ch 22:12-13, ch 22:20). Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
If you keep taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away your part out of the book of life (Rev. 22:18-19). Beware! God is not a man that He should lie.

You should have just asked me how I came to a conclusion rather than being biased and cursing me. Well, stick to what you think is right. You are welcome.

franklytrue:
You have not answered the questions above. You are digressing.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces." - 2 Kings 2:11-12

So what did the bible say or mean there? Elijah was taken into Heaven. Enoch too was taken away (Gen 5:24). You want to explain the bible away as JW's usually do? How can you witness for a God you don't even know (only head knowledge of) or have had any experience of?

Job 42:5-6 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6

The words the Lord Jesus speak, they are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). And Jesus said that He is coming quickly. He is coming very soon. (Rev. ch 3:11, ch 22:12-13, ch 22:20). Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
If you keep taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away your part out of the book of life (Rev. 22:18-19). Beware! God is not a man that He should lie.

When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven before him, was he lying? (John 3:13)
This is something to ponder on!

So are you telling me Elijah went to heaven with flesh and blood?
Are you aware that there are physical Heavens, known to us today as the Sky?

Xmuslim:
Satan,
Adam,
eve,
Rapture,
Punishment in the grave,
72 virgins in the paradise,
hell fire,
paradise

are all fallacies.

When will human wake up

When you're able to prove it!

DappaD:
When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven before him, was he lying? (John 3:13)
This is something to ponder on!

So are you telling me Elijah went to heaven with flesh and blood?
Are you aware that there are physical Heavens, known to us today as the Sky?

They only read, copy and paste.

Instead of read, study and meditate! Psalms 1:1-2; Joshua 1:8; Psalms 119:97; 1Timothy 4:15

And by the end of the day they'll tell you that the holy ghost jumped into their hearts to teach them!

Maximus69:
When you're able to prove it!

the burden of evidence is on you guys that claim those stuffs exist. Bit again, you are a Christian.

Xmuslim:
the burden of evidence is on you guys that claim those stuffs exist. Bit again, you are a Christian.

But you're the one feeling disturbed over what others are doing~

Xmuslim:

Satan,
Adam,
eve,
Rapture,
Punishment in the grave,
72 virgins in the paradise,
hell fire,
paradise

are all fallacies

When will human wake up

Obviously they don't give a damn about what you are saying or your feelings, so you're the one who needs to prove to them that what you're saying is right. Instead of this bitter complaints!

Maximus69:
But you're the one feeling disturbed over what others are doing~



Obviously they don't give a damn about what you are saying or your feelings, so you're the one who needs to prove to them that what you're saying is right. Instead of this bitter complaints!

what an analogy. Religion has indeed discourage your reasoning ability. Well done!

Xmuslim:
what an analogy. Religion has indeed discourage your reasoning ability. Well done!

Well perhaps that's another obstacle you need to overcome before you can Wake them up!

Kriss216:
If believing in the scripture is delusional, then, I'm a proud deluded fellow.


Shalom.

e go shock u na

PrincewithGod:
Flesh and blood are not going to be raptured. 1Cor 15:51-53 our bodies shall be changed from this physical bodies to spiritual bodies.

and you belief that?

chatinent:
You should have just asked me how I came to a conclusion rather than being biased and cursing me. Well, stick to what you think is right. You are welcome.

The ones I asked you have not answered and don't lie to yourself, I did not curse you. Why would I? I only told you according to the scriptures what you would bring upon yourself if you keep subtracting from the Word of God.

So what is your conclusion as you mentioned above?

DappaD:
When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven before him, was he lying? (John 3:13)
This is something to ponder on!

So are you telling me Elijah went to heaven with flesh and blood?
Are you aware that there are physical Heavens, known to us today as the Sky?

He was not lying and can never lie. It is understanding of His words we need.

And so when he also said no man hath seen the Father (God) and also said at another time that whoever has seen him has seen the Father, was he lying?

(No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. - John 1:18)

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." - John 6:46

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" - John 14:7, 9

So what is your understanding of these verses?

There were others too even in the old testament who saw God and lived. (Exodus 24:10-11, 1 King 22:19, Job 42:5)

Understanding of the God's word is very important
Proverbs 4:7 'Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.'
Job 32:8 'But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.'

Now back to Elijah whose body was changed because mortal flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. We also know that there are spiritual heavens too but when Jesus, who was seen physically, ate food and was touched also in his body after his resurrection, ascended up into heaven, how was that possible with just mortal flesh and blood? Do you limit the power of Almighty God?

So tell us where did Elijah go to and Enoch too?

franklytrue:
He was not lying and can never lie. It is understanding of His words we need.

And so when he also said no man hath seen the Father (God) and also said at another time that whoever has seen him has seen the Father, was he lying?

(No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. - John 1:18)

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." - John 6:46

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" - John 14:7, 9

So what is your understanding of these verses?

There were others too even in the old testament who saw God and lived. (Exodus 24:10-11, 1 King 22:19, Job 42:5)

Understanding of the God's word is very important
Proverbs 4:7 'Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.'

Now back to Elijah whose body was changed because mortal flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. We also know that there are spiritual heavens too but when Jesus, who was seen physically, ate food and was touched also in his body after his resurrection, ascended up into heaven, how was that possible with just mortal flesh and blood? Do you limit the power of Almighty God?

So tell us where did Elijah go to and Enoch too?

Before I address any of your statements, I'd like to know if you're a Trinitarian.

DappaD:
Before I address any of your statements, I'd like to know if you're a Trinitarian.

What is that?

franklytrue:
What is that?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is a separate person from his heavenly Father?

DappaD:
When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven before him, was he lying? (John 3:13)
This is something to ponder on!

So are you telling me Elijah went to heaven with flesh and blood?
Are you aware that there are physical Heavens, known to us today as the Sky?

These guys are far behind the scheme, so what you're saying will lead to unnecessary arguments.
The Bible says "Elijah was taken up TO HEAVEN in a chariot of fire" any Churchgoer reading that will continue to hammer on the phrase TAKEN UP TO HEAVEN.
I think that's why the teaching tools are arranged in a way that the student will have gotten a glimpse of what the next lesson will focus on!

DappaD:
Before I address any of your statements, I'd like to know if you're a Trinitarian.

I believe in the only true God, the living God, who fills the heavens and the earth, whose throne is in heaven and the earth is His footstool.
I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the God of the spirits of all flesh; the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who sent His only begotten Son to be the Saviour of the world.

DappaD:
Do you believe Jesus Christ is a separate person from his heavenly Father?

He is separate and he is one with the Father. Who can fully comprehend their Maker in their frail mortality now and limited senses. Imagine an electronic robot trying to fully understand his manufacturer's makeup of flesh and blood with soul and spirit.

Maximus69:
These guys are far behind the scheme, so what you're saying will lead to unnecessary arguments.
The Bible says "Elijah was taken up TO HEAVEN in a chariot of fire" any Churchgoer reading that will continue to hammer on the phrase TAKEN UP TO HEAVEN.
I think that's why the teaching tools are arranged in a way that the student will have gotten a glimpse of what the next lesson will focus on!

I'll like for him to see that Elijah didn't go to the spiritual heavens though.
Every other thing will be on hold

franklytrue:
I believe in the only true God, the living God, who fills the heavens and the earth, whose throne is in heaven and the earth is His footstool.
I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the God of the spirits of all flesh; the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who sent His only begotten Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Okay good
Do you want to know the reasons why Elijah didn't go up to the spiritual heavens? As supported by the Bible of course.

DappaD:
Okay good
Do you want to know the reasons why Elijah didn't go up to the spiritual heavens? As supported by the Bible of course.

Yes. And Enoch too, if you say he did not because the scriptures said God took him; with Jesus also who ascended into heaven with his resurrected physical body, if you think it was not so.

franklytrue:
Yes. And Enoch too, if you say he did not because the scriptures said God took him; with Jesus also who ascended into heaven with his resurrected physical body, if you think it was not so.

Enoch and Elijah never went to heaven!

For anyone to fully understand the reason, you need to develop a longing for God's word and put FAITH in it.
FAITH is the expectation of things hoped for the evident demonstration of realities though not seen! Hebrew 11:1
It's Faith that can help you to believe (trust) what you read in God's word, and faith will help you to know what God can and what he can't do! Genesis 18:25; Numbers 14:11-24; Habakkuk 1:13; James 1:13
If you read and meditate on those passages, you will realize that each of those worshipers frankly told God "No! you can't do that" or "God can't do that"
WHY?
Because they've developed a strong relationship with him through reading, studying and meditate on his word! Proverbs 2:1-5

God's word made us to understand that we humans have sinned and fall short of God's glory {Romans 3:23} therefore no human is worthy of beholding the heavenly glory, the only means by which any human can go there is after they've been born by water and spirit {John 3:5} they must first be baptized in water in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit {Matthew 28:19-20} afterwards such a person must also be baptized with the Spirit, then such a person becomes Born Again!
When talking about the heavenly glory, Jesus made it clear saying "of all those born by women (from Abel until the time he's speaking) none is greater than John the baptist, but the least of those going to heaven is greater than John" Matthew 11:11
So with Faith in his words we can confidently say both Enoch, Moses and Elijah whose dead bodies weren't found never went to heaven. None of them was baptized in water and spirit so they're not Born Again, and they all lived before John the baptist whom Jesus publicly declared saying will not go to heaven!
There may be contradictions in the opinions of Bible readers on this topic but Apostle Paul made us to understand that the Bible was given to us for teaching and setting matters straight so that we can be fully competent and completely equipped to tell people with confidence what will be and what's not going to be based on God's inspired word! 2Timothy 3:16-17

Maximus69:
Enoch and Elijah never went to heaven!

For anyone to fully understand the reason, you need to develop a longing for God's word and put FAITH in it.
FAITH is the expectation of things hoped for the evident demonstration of realities though not seen! Hebrew 11:1
It's Faith that can help you to believe (trust) what you read in God's word, and faith will help you to know what God can and what he can't do! Genesis 18:25; Numbers 14:11-24; Habakkuk 1:13; James 1:13
If you read and meditate on those passages, you will realize that each of those worshipers frankly told God "No! you can't do that" or "God can't do that"
WHY?
Because they've developed a strong relationship with him through reading, studying and meditate on his word! Proverbs 2:1-5

God's word made us to understand that we humans have sinned and fall short of God's glory {Romans 3:23} therefore no human is worthy of beholding the heavenly glory, the only means by which any human can go there is after they've been born by water and spirit {John 3:5} they must first be baptized in water in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit {Matthew 28:19-20} afterwards such a person must also be baptized with the Spirit, then such a person becomes Born Again!
When talking about the heavenly glory, Jesus made it clear saying "of all those born by women (from Abel until the time he's speaking) none is greater than John the baptist, but the least of those going to heaven is greater than John" Matthew 11:11
So with Faith in his words we can confidently say both Enoch, Moses and Elijah whose dead bodies weren't found never went to heaven. None of them was baptized in water and spirit so they're not Born Again, and they all lived before John the baptist whom Jesus publicly declared saying will not go to heaven!
There may be contradictions in the opinions of Bible readers on this topic but Apostle Paul made us to understand that the Bible was given to us for teaching and setting matters straight so that we can be fully competent and completely equipped to tell people with confidence what will be and what's not going to be based on God's inspired word! 2Timothy 3:16-17

See how you guys are just explaining the scriptures away, believing and speaking lies.
They told God frankly 'No you can't do that', etc, that that was an impossible thing for God to do?

You are meditating and getting false inspiration that is not from God.

Well, it is impossible for the 'God' you have formed in your mind but not the Living God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth. Is anything too hard for Him? (Jeremiah 32: 17, 27)

So Enoch had the scriptures then at the Genesis that he was READING , STUDYING and MEDITATING on? Elijah may have had some scriptures in his days but not all.

So where did they go to? Where are their bodies? And most importantly, don't skip this: what about Jesus who ascended into heaven with a resurrected body? Was that not true or was it too hard for God to do?

Now concerning being born again, (for which I don't think you understand well or have had the real experience of) that means when a person is born again, he is now made worthy to enter heaven when he dies, isn't it?

What Jesus meant about John the baptist was that the least person in heaven presently is greater than how John was then on earth. Heaven is a place full of glory and power. The least person there is greater in power, ability and authority than John (who had a special mission and was empowered for it) in his human form, in so much that if they were to come to the earth in that state, they would be worshipped as gods.

franklytrue:
Yes. And Enoch too, if you say he did not because the scriptures said God took him; with Jesus also who ascended into heaven with his resurrected physical body, if you think it was not so.

I'll like to focus on the account of Elijah for now, that of Enoch is another topic on its own. But the Bible does explain that both of them didn't go to heaven in concordance with Jesus' words at John 3:13

franklytrue:
So where did they go to? Where are their bodies? And most importantly, don't skip this: what about Jesus who ascended into heaven with a resurrected body? Was that not true or was it too hard for God to do?

Agreed, there's nothing impossible for Jehovah God to do. But He has standards he sets himself and his subjects so he doesn't go above or below that standard.

The highlighted though, caught my attention. Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body, not a physical body. He ascended into heaven with a spirit body. (1Corinthians 15:42-44, 1Timothy 3:16, 1Peter 3:18)

DappaD:
I'll like to focus on the account of Elijah for now, that of Enoch is another topic on its own. But the Bible does explain that both of them didn't go to heaven in concordance with Jesus' words at John 3:13

You would focus on one and leave the other? Half truth is a lie. Or does your JW book not touch on that? The literal becomes figurative when it does not suit Russell's false teaching
The problem is that your organisation have translated the scriptures falsely and given you a false version. May God help you all.