thinkmoney:

Several of it are out there. All those "kingdom principles; 'you can't follow the kingdom principle and be poor...ever'"

Mtcheww

BluntTheApostle:


No, the Bible did not establish Tithing as a financial investment outside the Promised Land.

The Old Covenant (the Old Testament) was tied to the Promised Land.

Now, we have a New Covenant, which is tied to the Good News, which is the Salvation that Christ offered us with his body.

So what is Hebrews 7 all about

BigwayAfrica:


Don't be like Peter. Be like Jesus. Only then re you a Christian.

Yes Jesus came face to face with the pharisees and said "woe unto you pharisees" Do you know the meaning of woe
dont you know that an anti-christ like freeze is worse than the pharisees

ThothHermes:
So what is Hebrews 7 all about

Interesting!

Please, do tell me what Hebrews 7 is all about.

BluntTheApostle:


Interesting!

Please, do tell me what Hebrews 7 is all about.

Mtcheww

Investnow2017:

I read all the useless comments from your insightful question to the last page, not one of them answered your question. You see, these people do not believe or know what the Bible says just what their god of men they worship dish out to them after they have been severely financially squeezed.
In fairness to Freeze, he quoted the Bible, and instead of patiently explaining it further, since you do not agree with him, knowing that there is a huge audience, they resorted to name calling, insults and threats to life. And people still believe that these charlatans know God or have anything to do with Jesus Christ that they scream every minute. Shame on them. You made a statement and quoted the Bible on a public space, someone reasoned it out differently and also quoted the Bible, if you are convinced of your calling, your place would be to explain further knowing that the wrong belief of this soul can lead him to destruction. Instead of that, because you have the same proud spirit as Satan, you resorted to insults and threats. That is evil, hate speech and condemnable. Are these the crop of humans who say they are going to heaven? Shameful, disgusting. They will be grossly disappointed.
What were the insults in the points raised by Freeze? No one is saying rather they keep heeping venoms. I am not surprised because the Bible says in the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. These scammers and blind followers have warped and devilish mind, very evil heart. Disgusting what comes out of the people who said they are going to heaven!
Freeze according to you is a lost sheep, do you help him by insulting or threatening his life? And you still call yourself a follower of Christ? Would Jesus' apostles have resorted to such mindless diatribe and threat?

It's this exchange he had with that commenter that proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

kingsley989:


This is nothing but the truth. Thank you for taking your time to put this down. To all Christian brothers and sisters, let’s stop being hypocrites and let’s look beyond denomination and look unto Jesus our lord and savior. We are our own greatest enermy.

The Jesus of churches where pastors sleep with each others wife?

Or the prosperity driven Jesus that makes the pastors of those churches in desperation for their so-called prosperity continue in contract racketeering?

The prosperity Jesus that makes pastor inflate the cost for supplies of items times 2, and still shout to God be the glory the following morning on altar?

Or the Jesus that makes District, zonal and groups in the loop to inflate the price of zonal properties to be acquired by their church in tunes of #30millions and later shared their loot?

Or the Jesus that lies on the altar to crucify govt trying to destroy lie with lie?

Please, God is not in these businesses we call church.

I left that church when I was tired of all these scams.

Jesus wants our lives to be modelled after his words.

Everything outside that is a charade.

God of mammon is not same as Jesus Christ.

Take holiness out of CHRIST-like (Christian) and you have zero.

Let us go back to the old time religion that many of them left behind in SU (scripture union) to purse financial gains that will never take any of us to the kingdom of God.

Hullabaloon:


It's this exchange he had with that commenter that proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Oh interesting. Thanks for sharing, that was kind of you. But sincerely, the Bible writer, Paul the Apostle, quoted by Oyedepo was not even married if being married alone qualifies one to raise a valid objection to an opinion on the subject of marriage.
When a statement or an opinion is bared on a space as wide as the internet, wisdom dictates that the public will receive it in varied manners. The onus rests with those who believe they have a calling to win souls to settle down and brilliantly explain his position supported by the holy book, the Bible. The intention of such a man with acclaimed divine calling will be to remove the sheep from the darkness, at the same time appreciating that others reading stand to learn and be emancipated for their own salvation. Anything short of such noble motive smacks of ego and pride to push ones opinion without giving room for divergent views. I am told oyedipo wrote on a social media. Such message is undoubtedly for the over 7billion people living on earth. To be unopen or closed to a divergent opinion especially such as supported by the Scriptures is not only disappointing on his part but bereft of pride, ego, which has no place in a man who says he has the holy spirit.
Don't talk to the public if you cannot stand criticism. Period. That is my stand. Freeze should be proved wrong Scripturally and not to be abused or threatened - such act is unChristian, Satanic, and disgraceful.

No insider from Salvation Ministries gave Kemi any info stop spreading lies. That's why Kemi was arrested to produce who gave her the info and she couldn't.

ThothHermes:
Mtcheww

What does Hebrews 7 have to do with Tithing as a financial investment?

How does it support prosperity theology?

BafanaBafana:
Huh!
If you want to point out Ibiyeomi's thuggish behaviour, do it. Don't start by blaming freeze or anyone.
We all know what happened from A to Z.
We have "Christians" nowadays who go to church and testify with a large smile of how their boss who doesn't like them died last night and the whole congregation goes wild. So this kind of behaviour from the pastor is not unexpected.

A retired bad guy, I never believed in his ministry ever since. Those who knows him way back in school will tell you better. No be PH we dey!

BluntTheApostle:



What does Hebrews 7 have to do with Tithing as a financial investment?

How does it support prosperity theology?

What is prosperity theology? Oyedepo does not teach that.
Firstly you have to know what Oyedepo teaches before arguing against it. You obviously don't know what he teaches about prosperity and you don't want to know. You just want to argue.

Okay answer: Which of Oyedepo's sermons on prosperity have you listened to?

ThothHermes:
What is prosperity theology? Oyedepo does not teach that.
Firstly you have to know what Oyedepo teaches before arguing against it. You obviously don't know what he teaches about prosperity and you don't want to know. You just want to argue.

Okay answer: Which of Oyedepo's sermons on prosperity have you listened to?

It is rude to answer a question with a question.

What does Hebrews 7 have to do with the argument?

dokie:


Christians do not follow Elisha, we follow Jesus. When Jesus was beaten black and blue and hung on a cross, he could have as well cursed everyone there to die, but he said "forgive them father for they know not what they do".

Christianity is not Judaism.

go and sit down Jesus is a different being, one that knows his end right from the begining!
Uncle Friz deserve every insult that came to him

BluntTheApostle:


It is rude to answer a question with a question.

What does Hebrews 7 have to do with the argument?

It's not rude if the motive of the questioner is dubious.

Why should I engage you on an issue you've not studied?

Investnow2017:

Oh interesting. Thanks for sharing, that was kind of you. But sincerely, the Bible writer, Paul the Apostle, quoted by Oyedepo was not even married if being married alone qualifies one to raise a valid objection to an opinion on the subject of marriage.
When a statement or an opinion is bared on a space as wide as the internet, wisdom dictates that the public will receive it in varied manners. The onus rests with those who believe they have a calling to win souls to settle down and brilliantly explain his position supported by the holy book, the Bible. The intention of such a man with acclaimed divine calling will be to remove the sheep from the darkness, at the same time appreciating that others reading stand to learn and be emancipated for their own salvation. Anything short of such noble motive smacks of ego and pride to push ones opinion without giving room for divergent views. I am told oyedipo wrote on a social media. Such message is undoubtedly for the over 7billion people living on earth. To be unopen or closed to a divergent opinion especially such as supported by the Scriptures is not only disappointing on his part but bereft of pride, ego, which has no place in a man who says he has the holy spirit.
Don't talk to the public if you cannot stand criticism. Period. That is my stand. Freeze should be proved wrong Scripturally and not to be abused or threatened - such act is unChristian, Satanic, and disgraceful.

You are correct.

Investnow2017:

Oh interesting. Thanks for sharing, that was kind of you. But sincerely, the Bible writer, Paul the Apostle, quoted by Oyedepo was not even married if being married alone qualifies one to raise a valid objection to an opinion on the subject of marriage.
When a statement or an opinion is bared on a space as wide as the internet, wisdom dictates that the public will receive it in varied manners. The onus rests with those who believe they have a calling to win souls to settle down and brilliantly explain his position supported by the holy book, the Bible. The intention of such a man with acclaimed divine calling will be to remove the sheep from the darkness, at the same time appreciating that others reading stand to learn and be emancipated for their own salvation. Anything short of such noble motive smacks of ego and pride to push ones opinion without giving room for divergent views. I am told oyedipo wrote on a social media. Such message is undoubtedly for the over 7billion people living on earth. To be unopen or closed to a divergent opinion especially such as supported by the Scriptures is not only disappointing on his part but bereft of pride, ego, which has no place in a man who says he has the holy spirit.
Don't talk to the public if you cannot stand criticism. Period. That is my stand. Freeze should be proved wrong Scripturally and not to be abused or threatened - such act is unChristian, Satanic, and disgraceful.

Brilliant submission. You are correct.

ThothHermes:
It's not rude if the motive of the questioner is dubious.

Why should I engage you on an issue you've not studied?

You wrote Hebrews 7.

I asked you to relate Hebrews 7 to our argument.

You couldn't.

How sad!

BluntTheApostle:


You wrote Hebrews 7.

I asked you to relate Hebrews 7 to our argument.

You couldn't.

How sad!

Note Bro.

If Hebrews chapter 7 is not about a hope of future prosperity, please don't expect any explanation from him.

He surely won't read it, not to talk of understanding.

I went through all their Bible Schools, was a minister in wsf and an exco of one of their service groups.

In all sincerity, the set up is more about using the Bible and its principles to achieve financial success on earth.

All more about the earth than Jesus and heaven.

ThothHermes:
Mtcheww

No go read ur bible urself... Dey there may some people dey mumu u. Seek God now really while he may be found. He is not their in the noise of these pastors

BluntTheApostle:


You wrote Hebrews 7.

I asked you to relate Hebrews 7 to our argument.

You couldn't.

How sad!

We don't have an argument. You said something to the effect that tithing was the old covenant. I said that Hebrews 7 proves you wrong. Or is Paul not talking about tithing there

The matter is about Oyedepo's teaching on tithing and prosperity.
We cannot have any discussion on the matter if you don't even know what Oyedepo teaches.
Common sense dictates one should get sufficient information on a matter before attempting to argue for/argue it.

I am tired of going round in circles.

Does it make any sense to want to talk about a matter you know nothing about!

Let me summarize Oyedepo's message on prosperity for you since you are too lazy to seek out his sermons.

1)God can and will prosper any interested believer.
2)The way to prosper is by coming into the covenant that God enacted with Abraham.
3)The covenant like any other has terms and conditions.
4)Tithing is one of the terms of the covenant

Your response to this comment will determine whether I'll respond to you again or not.

thinkmoney:

No go read ur bible urself... Dey there may some people dey mumu u. Seek God now really while he may be found. He is not their in the noise of these pastors

ThothHermes:
We don't have an argument. You said something to the effect that tithing was the old covenant. I said that Hebrews 7 proves you wrong. Or is Paul not talking about tithing there

Give me a specific verse, please.

The matter is about Oyedepo's teaching on tithing and prosperity.
We cannot have any discussion on the matter if you don't even know what Oyedepo teaches.
Common sense dictates one should get sufficient information on a matter before attempting to argue for/argue it.

I have a degree in theology, and certificates in church history. I have listened to Oyedepo for as long as I can remember. Many of you who follow him don't even know him that much. I have scrutinized his teachings, even within the academic domain; this means that I have perused his original materials.

I am tired of going round in circles.

If only you would provide a specific verse. But you didn't. You can't just mention a whole Bible chapter, and say it talks about tithes. Jesus talked about tithes, but we all know He mentioned tithe at the time when the New Testament had not come into effect. So, show me a verse, please.

Does it make any sense to want to talk about a matter you know nothing about!

Like I mentioned earlier, I am confident that I know more about Oyedepo and his teachings than you ever can.

Let me summarize Oyedepo's message on prosperity for you since you are too lazy to seek out his sermons.

Interesting!!!

1)God can and will prosper any interested believer.

Of course, God will.

2)The way to prosper is by coming into the covenant that God enacted with Abraham.

This is unscriptural. Provide a Bible verse.

3)The covenant like any other has terms and conditions.

There are two covenants. The first (at a point) became profitless and was replaced with a perfect one. So, which covenant does Oyedepo talk about?

4)Tithing is one of the terms of the covenant

Provide a specific Bible verse, please.

Your response to this comment will determine whether I'll respond to you again or not.

Please, do respond to my questions. Because my impression of Oyedepo as a false teacher consists of these perversion of the Scriptures which you would do well to falsify with Bible verses.

��

BluntTheApostle:


Give me a specific verse, please.



I have a degree in theology, and certificates in church history. I have listened to Oyedepo for as long as I can remember. Many of you who follow him don't even know him that much. I have scrutinized his teachings, even within the academic domain; this means that I have perused his original materials.



If only you would provide a specific verse. But you didn't. You can't just mention a whole Bible chapter, and say it talks about tithes. Jesus talked about tithes, but we all know He mentioned tithe at the time when the New Testament had not come into effect. So, show me a verse, please.



Like I mentioned earlier, I am confident that I know more about Oyedepo and his teachings than you ever can.



Interesting!!!



Of course, God will.



This is unscriptural. Provide a Bible verse.



There are two covenants. The first (at a point) became profitless and was replaced with a perfect one. So, which covenant does Oyedepo talk about?



Provide a specific Bible verse, please.



Please, do respond to my questions. Because my impression of Oyedepo as a false teacher consists of these perversion of the Scriptures which you would do well to falsify with Bible verses.

That’s your impression. It doesn’t change who he is and it won’t make him stop spreading the gospel of Christ.

kingsley989:

That’s your impression. It doesn’t change who he is and it won’t make him stop spreading the gospel of Christ.

There is a difference between the Gospel of Christ, and prosperity theology.

Don't ever get it confused.

BluntTheApostle:


There is a difference between the Gospel of Christ, and prosperity theology.

Don't ever get it confused.

I don’t attend David Onyedepo’s church. But I will not hide in the clouds of denomination. He is a preacher of Christ, I have also listened to few teachings he made on prosperity, Repentance and so much more. Like the poster above mentioned, everything has its principle. We Catholics will always disagree with Pentecostal teachings even when the truth is glaring. Let’s stop this nonsense.
Let’s all believe what we want... On the last day comes judgement!!!

kingsley989:

I don’t attend David Onyedepo’s church. But I will not hide in the clouds of denomination. He is a preacher of Christ, I have also listened to few teachings he made on prosperity, Repentance and so much more. Like the poster above mentioned, everything has its principle. We Catholics will always disagree with Pentecostal teachings even when the truth is glaring. Let’s stop this nonsense.
Let’s all believe what we want... On the last day comes judgement!!!

What truth is glaring? That Tithing remains a part of the New Covenant, even though we all know that Tithing is attached to the Promised Land?

And mind you, I am not a Catholic. I don't belong to any religious organization or brand.

Believe what you want bro. I believe Heaven and Hell is real. We are all going to answer to our creator when our time here on earth elapses. So you ft dey dia dey deceive yourself, allowing Freeze a lost Muslim confuse you.
No offense ooo.

BluntTheApostle:


Give me a specific verse, please.

Hebrews 7:1-10. Emphasis on verses 7 and 8.

I have a degree in theology, and certificates in church history. I have listened to Oyedepo for as long as I can remember. Many of you who follow him don't even know him that much. I have scrutinized his teachings, even within the academic domain; this means that I have perused his original materials.

The letter killeth. You are the type described in 2Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, but unable to come to the knowledge of truth.

If only you would provide a specific verse. But you didn't. You can't just mention a whole Bible chapter, and say it talks about tithes. Jesus talked about tithes, but we all know He mentioned tithe at the time when the New Testament had not come into effect. So, show me a verse, please.

Done.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am confident that I know more about Oyedepo and his teachings than you ever can.

Why are you asking about Hebrews 7 then? I learnt it from Oyedepo. I think you are lying.
It's not a competition.

Interesting!!!



Of course, God will.



This is unscriptural. Provide a Bible verse.

The wealth covenant is talked about in Deuteronomy 8. Emphasis on verse 18.

There are two covenants. The first (at a point) became profitless and was replaced with a perfect one. So, which covenant does Oyedepo talk about?

Don't know what you are talking about. All scripture is profitable...

Provide a specific Bible verse, please.

Done.

Please, do respond to my questions. Because my impression of Oyedepo as a false teacher consists of these perversion of the Scriptures which you would do well to falsify with Bible verses.

What scriptures?

Tankunland:
yes I have I went to cotonoo and lome for a football trial. Lol anyways my point is we Christians have been made too soft that anyone can just abuse us. A Christian woman that was preaching in Abuja was beheaded and not a word from that hypocrite daddy freeze but when it gets to the turn of a pastor he turns into a roaring Lion. Yes ibiyeomie shouldn't have said some of the things he said but I won't judge the pastor because he is human and has feelings and can get angry as well

You dont want to judge the pastor cause his human with feelings but here you are not only judging freeze but condemning him! What the said Pastor said is not christlike and those words will not draw anyone nearer to God.

ThothHermes:
Hebrews 7:1-10. Emphasis on verses 7 and 8.

Where in those verses were Christians even remotely required to tithe?

If you can read, you would realize that the verses were contrasting the covenant of work (which includes tithing) with the covenant of grace which the death of Christ ushered in. The covenant of work never perfected humanity. They were profitless, and so were done away with. If the covenant of work was profitable, Jesus Christ wouldn't have needed to die.

Now, tithing cannot save you because you are no longer under such a law. You are now saved only by grace.

When the Israelites were bound by the covenant of work (also known as the Sinai covenant), they were saved by works (or duties such as tithing, and the blood of bulls). The covenant had curses which transgressors suffered for not keeping the covenant.

But when Christ died, a new covenant was ushered in. The covenant of grace. You are no longer saved by works, but by grace. So, your salvation is not of your own doing (your works) but of grace (unmerited favor). No one can therefore boast that his salvation is due to his tithing.

The letter killeth. You are the type described in 2Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, but unable to come to the knowledge of truth.

You can't emotionally blackmail me by using Bible verses that you don't understand My spiritual journey did not start today.

Done.

You haven't.

Why are you asking about Hebrews 7 then? I learnt it from Oyedepo. I think you are lying.
It's not a competition.

Because I didn't see how Hebrews 7 supports tithing as a financial investment. It does not even remotely ask us to tithe.

Abraham did not even tithe to invest financially. He tithed to appreciate God's help in getting him victory at that war. And as wealthy as Abraham was, there are no records of him ever tithing until that very incident. And there were no records of him ever tithing after that. Moreover, Abraham did not tithe out of his properties.

The wealth covenant is talked about in Deuteronomy 8. Emphasis on verse 18.

I am not interested in the covenant of works as far as tithing is concerned.

Don't know what you are talking about. All scripture is profitable...

Profitable but not necessarily applicable, because these laws were specific. How many of the over 600 Mosaic Laws do you follow? Aside tithing, how many of the old laws do you follow or apply?

Done.

You have done nothing.