I've told you guys that they're all ATHEISTS in the making, sooner from now the world will change any only those with Jesus' group will remain when all these Churchgoers have been frustrated with all their false beliefs!

DappaD:

The bolded actually caught my attention. LOL.
So I shouldn't be confused when the Bible says it's a “Spiritual Body” abi?
Instead I should accept the one you're telling me and discard how the Bible puts it shey?

What am saying is that the spiritual body is the glorified body. Don't be confused by thinking that spiritual body means spirit.

Spiritual body means a type of body(flesh) that is spiritual. This is the same type of body that the saints will put on at the second coming of Christ

2corithians 5:2-4
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

This means that the body would not be discarded, but will changed to an immortal body. This is what happened with Jesus Christ. His crucified body was not discarded but it changed to an immortal (or glorified body).

livingchrist:


If Jwo want to disarm the nations they should have cut off the source of fund eg tax but no they keep supplying funds to be used to stockpile weapons.

You see how they look away and didn't bother to respond. Later they will comeback and say they dealing with someone that is EMPTY without JWs . They will quote a scripture and the same scripture will be explained. The next you see is they jump into another scripture. Same thing will happen. They will jump again?

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you guys that they're all ATHEISTS in the making, sooner from now the world will change any only those with Jesus' group will remain when all these Churchgoers have been frustrated with all their false beliefs!

The scene of this world is changing indeed my brother. (1Corinthians 7:31)
Soon, the scarlet coloured wild beast(United Nations) will pounce on Babylon the Great(all false religions) and completely destroy her. —Revelation 17:15-17

Depsui:


What am saying is that the spiritual body is the glorified body. Don't be confused by thinking that spiritual body means spirit.

Spiritual body means a type of body(flesh) that is spiritual. This is the same type of body that the saints will put on at the second coming of Christ

You know i will ask questions o, as in thought provoking ones at that.

Are you saying there was a time when Jesus was not spiritual?

livingchrist:
these people are funny, what will they say about Daniel who served under a pagan king? Or Joseph who became a ruler in a pagan land? Or Jesus himself who healed a Roman soldier?

After all the Nation of Israel is "Jehovah's Organization" and its members were made HEADS of AGENCIES in a Satan's organization nations. E get as e be

DappaD:


The scene of this world is changing indeed my brother. (1Corinthians 7:31)
Soon, the scarlet coloured wild beast(United Nations) will pounce on Babylon the Great(all false religions) and completely destroy her. —Revelation 17:15-17

They are having their last chances now to enter into the ark, by then it will be too late. Many of them will cry bitterly when they late discover that the one and only Christian group is the one they've been criticising all along!
That time neither their huge edifices, nor their big religious titles, nor their gospel musicians nor comedians will be there to console them!

AkinwaleJJ:

The body Jesus lived with as a man has been sacrificed so he is now a spirit again as he was before being born as human!

Spirits don't die, therefore spirits don't resurrect. If you're claiming that Jesus Christ ressurected as a spirit, the question is: Did the Spirit of Jesus Christ die? No. So the Spirit of Jesus Christ needed no resurrection.

By claiming that Jesus Christ ressurected as a spirit, you're denying the resurrection of our saviour which is very dangerous.

To be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus died(body) and resurrected (body) the 3rd day. Without this you can't be saved.

Romans10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

MaxInDHouse:


You know i will ask questions o, as in thought provoking ones at that.

Are you saying there was a time when Jesus was not spiritual?

Yes, he didn't have a spiritual body then. When He was on earth, he had the same type of body that me and you have.

Unless you're asking if He had a Spirit and had the Holy Spirit living in Him. Then Yes. The same way we have a spirit and have the Holy Ghost living in us. Yet, we don't have an immortal body (Spiritual body).

livingchrist:
No, angels are never called mighty God, there is only one Mighty God and that is Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is called the mighty God no other.
Psalm 110:1 is a messianic verse, that speak of Christ position as a man.

He is probably talking about the Hebrew nouns "el" and "el'ohim". The first is the singular form of the second and it means "mighty one" literally. It was understood to apply even to great men and to the angels.

But biblical Hebrew is a language spoken by an ancient people and people like the Jehovah's Witnesses like to ignore the fact that just as we can use a word with a definite meaning today to mean several different things and be understood in terms of the context, the ancient people did the same too.

So, for example, when the medium of Endor's seance was hijacked by the Lord to cause Samuel to come up from Paradise, the unbelieving medium called Samuel "el'ohim". That didn't mean that he was a God of any kind, it just meant that she thought he was a God or even God himself. Consider that every time that an angel or even a saint of old appeared in glory to a person (even a believer) on earth, they were terrifying in appearance

16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” 17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
Daniel 8:16-17 (NIV)

11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
Luke 1:11-12 (NIV)

Even when they were not even visible and when the person was an unbeliever, their presence filled the ambience with palpable fear --

5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude. 7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves
Daniel 10:5-7 (NIV)

It is not surprising then that an unbeliever would call a saint in glory a God (compare the reactions of believers like Peter, James, and John to the appearance of Moses and Elijah in the Transfiguration, Matthew 17), if we are to take her meaning to be "God." She might have meant that she saw a mighty one, someone who exuded power in a terrifying way, since that is the literal meaning of "el." However, since "el'ohim" is used quite often as a plural of majesty rather than a plural of quantity, so that our God is called "El'ohim" because He is the Mighty (or rather, Great) God, it can be accepted that the medium really thought that she was seeing God Himself.

This is what unbelievers like the JWs like to hinge on to attack the deity of Christ and make all sorts of foolish and contradictory claims about the Trinity.

We can be sure that in the original languages, it isn't only God that is called "el'ohim" by different speakers in the Bible especially by unbelievers. But the context is enough to tell us in every instance what is really meant.

As we know, although there all sorts of things purported to be gods and lords, there is only one true God and one true Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:5-6). So we believers are not swayed by the idea that because some people think that an angel or a saint in glory is a god, Jesus Christ is anything like them. We know that that is foolishness. We understand that God is God alone even if He does call even men gods. We know that Psalm 82 is not confusing as to who is God there and who are just gods or delegates of divine authority. We know that that is a completely different scenario from Hebrews 1:8-12, for example.

But those who are wicked will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived (2 Timothy 3:13). Their end is assured (2 Timothy 3:9; 2 Peter 2:3). There is no doubt what their lot will be. But we who believe and hold the Word of Truth to be sacred will soon be delivered and vindicated by our God, the only true God, the One Who loved us and gave Himself up for us, our Lord Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

Depsui:

What am saying is that the spiritual body is the glorified body.
Don't be confused by thinking that spiritual body means spirit.

Sir, spirit creatures in heaven all have spiritual bodies that we cannot see. (1Corinthians 15:40)
So get your facts right.

Spiritual body means a type of body(flesh) that is spiritual.

This is a BIG lie, Mr Depsui.
You're just confusing yourself. You need to understand Genesis 2:7 FIRST because it's little things like these that's confusing most of you.

This is the same type of body that the saints will put on at the second coming of Christ
2corithians 5:2-4
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

So that you're saying when the angels—who are basically spirit creatures(Psalm 104:4)—visited Abraham as men and ate meat/bread with their strong teeth, they were some mishmash of physical and spiritual bodies?(Genesis 18:1-8, Hebrews 13:2)
Please, I've already told you that your claims have no place in the Bible.
Can we just stick to how the Bible puts it and leave all foreign thinking.

This means that the body would not be discarded, but will changed to an immortal body. This is what happened with Jesus Christ. His crucified body was not discarded but it changed to an immortal (or glorified body).

Read 1Corinthians 15:42-44 carefully.

When you plant a seed in the ground and it germinates to be a flower or a tree, does it still retain the identify of the seed? Isn't the purpose of the seed already accomplished?

That's exactly the same here.
When anointed Christians die, their fleshly(physical) bodies are sown in the ground. The spiritual body they possess after resurrection to immortal life in heaven is totally different from their fleshly/human body. There's no combination of both physical and spiritual bodies. Please try and understand that.

livingchrist:
you are wrong!
Jesus body was resurrected.

John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
But he spake of the temple of his body.

When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

From this verse, the body of Jesus rose exactly as he said.

This is an excellent refutation. I often forget this passage myself, but it simply can't be opposed. The Lord Himself said that He would raise up His Own Human Body. But then, those who love lies can never abide the truth.

DappaD:


Mr livingchrist, I have left you already on this matter.
If you like, join military and carry arms, if you like, don't join. What's my business?
So far as all parties are concerned, Jehovah's Witnesses is the group on earth practicing true Christianity today. OTHERS are deceiving themselves. It is only those in my faith I recognize as my brothers and sisters in Christ.

So don't mistake it to be as if I want you to change your thinking or anything. I was only stating the beliefs and practises of Jehovah's Witnesses according to the Bible.
So you're free to do as you like, after all you've got your own freewill to express.


Nawao. Find one place and perch biko.
If it's John the Baptist you are following let us know.

All what you typed there can also be said of other sect.
Jehovah witness organisation is a scam.

Depsui:


Spirits don't die, therefore spirits don't resurrect. If you're claiming that Jesus Christ ressurected as a spirit, the question is: Did the Spirit of Jesus Christ die? No. So the Spirit of Jesus Christ needed no resurrection.

You should have waited for response and not answer your own question from your traditional religionsist's ideology.

The day Jesus became a human, his life as a spirit was transformed into an embryo in the womb of Mary and after his birth he lived like a human, died as a human and was completely dead just as humans do die!
He died as a human not as a spirit that's why God's word confirmed that Jesus died and was raised.
His death sent a strong message to all his spirit brothers (angel) because for three consecutive days Jesus was dead completely, so they now know that God who created them knows how to send them to non-existence! 1Pet 3:18-19

Jehovah's Witnesses don buy market today
Even the ones that don't know why they exist are flooding into the thread

2Corinthians 4:4
Satan e no go better for you.

livingchrist:

All what you typed there can also be said of other sect.
Jehovah witness organisation is a scam.

No wahala.

Ihedinobi3:


This is an excellent refutation. I often forget this passage myself, but it simply can't be opposed. The Lord Himself said that He would raise up His Own Human Body. But then, those who love lies can never abide the truth.

Dont be too surprised when they come up with another excuse.
One of the sign to know the spirit of the antichrist is that it denies the physical resurrection of Jesus

livingchrist:
Dont be too surprised when they come up with another excuse.
One of the sign to know the spirit of the antichrist is that it denies the physical resurrection of Jesus

Indeed. In fact, unless a JW is actually willing to have a reasonable conversation with me, I typically don't engage them anymore. I find such engagements an unnecessary emotional burden.

Depsui:


Yes, he didn't have a spiritual body then. When He was on earth, he had the same type of body that me and you have.

Unless you're asking if He had a Spirit and had the Holy Spirit living in Him. Then Yes. The same way we have a spirit and have the Holy Ghost living in us. Yet, we don't have an immortal body (Spiritual body).

So Jesus also died like everyone else, no spirit survived his death until God raised him back to the type of life he used to live before, spirit life!

Ihedinobi3:


He is probably talking about the Hebrew nouns "el" and "el'ohim". The first is the singular form of the second and it means "mighty one" literally. It was understood to apply even to great men and to the angels.

But biblical Hebrew is a language spoken by an ancient people and people like the Jehovah's Witnesses like to ignore the fact that just as we can use a word with a definite meaning today to mean several different things and be understood in terms of the context, the ancient people did the same too.

So, for example, when the medium of Endor's seance was hijacked by the Lord to cause Samuel to come up from Paradise, the unbelieving medium called Samuel "el'ohim". That didn't mean that he was a God of any kind, it just meant that she thought he was a God or even God himself. Consider that every time that an angel or even a saint of old appeared in glory to a person (even a believer) on earth, they were terrifying in appearance

16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” 17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
Daniel 8:16-17 (NIV)

11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
Luke 1:11-12 (NIV)

Even when they were not even visible and when the person was an unbeliever, their presence filled the ambience with palpable fear --

5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude. 7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves
Daniel 10:5-7 (NIV)

It is not surprising then that an unbeliever would call a saint in glory a God (compare the reactions of believers like Peter, James, and John to the appearance of Moses and Elijah in the Transfiguration, Matthew 17), if we are to take her meaning to be "God." She might have meant that she saw a mighty one, someone who exuded power in a terrifying way, since that is the literal meaning of "el." However, since "el'ohim" is used quite often as a plural of majesty rather than a plural of quantity, so that our God is called "El'ohim" because He is the Mighty God, it can be accepted that the medium really thought that she was seeing God Himself.

This is what unbelievers like the JWs like to hinge on to attack the deity of Christ and make all sorts of foolish and contradictory claims about the Trinity.

We can be sure that in the original languages, it isn't only God that is called "el'ohim" by different speakers in the Bible especially by unbelievers. But the context is enough to tell us in every instance what is really meant.

As we know, although there all sorts of things purported to be gods and lords, there is only one true God and one true Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:5-6). So we believers are not swayed by the idea that because some people think that an angel or a saint in glory is a god, Jesus Christ is anything like them. We know that that is foolishness. We understand that God is God alone even if He does call even men gods. We know that Psalm 82 is not confusing as to who is God there and who are just gods or delegates of divine authority. We know that that is a completely different scenario from Hebrews 1:8-12, for example.

But those who are wicked will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived (2 Timothy 3:13). Their end is assured (2 Timothy 3:9; 2 Peter 2:3). There is no doubt what their lot will be. But we who believe and hold the Word of Truth to be sacred will soon be delivered and vindicated by our God, the only true God, the One Who loved us and gave Himself up for us, our Lord Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

Yes you are absolutely correct, el can be used to to describe great people eg judges of Israel and gibbor literally means great one or a hero.
But If I am not mistaken, the combination el gibbor was only used to describe yahweh in the bible,
Sometimes, judges, angels and heroic soldiers were called mighty or gibbor but none was called el gibbor or the mighty God which exclusively belongs to Jehovah

Ihedinobi3:


Indeed. In fact, unless a JW is actually willing to have a reasonable conversation with me, I typically don't engage them anymore. I find such engagements an unnecessary emotional burden.

Good decision,

MaxInDHouse:


So Jesus also died like everyone else, no spirit survived his death until God raised him back to the type of life he used to live before, spirit life!

Spirits don't die

MaxInDHouse:


So Jesus also died like everyone else, no spirit survived his death until God raised him back to the type of life he used to live before, spirit life!

was it a Spirit that was killed by the Roman soldiers?

DappaD:

Sir, spirit creatures in heaven all have spiritual bodies that we cannot see. (1Corinthians 15:40)
So get your facts right.


This is a BIG lie, Mr Depsui.
You're just confusing yourself. You need to understand Genesis 2:7 FIRST because it's little things like these that's confusing most of you.



So that you're saying when the angels—who are basically spirit creatures(Psalm 104:4)—visited Abraham as men and ate meat/bread with their strong teeth, they were some mishmash of physical and spiritual bodies?(Genesis 18:1-8, Hebrews 13:2)
Please, I've already told you that your claims have no place in the Bible.
Can we just stick to how the Bible puts it and leave all foreign thinking.



Read 1Corinthians 15:42-44 carefully.

When you plant a seed in the ground and it germinates to be a flower or a tree, does it still retain the identify of the seed? Isn't the purpose of the seed already accomplished?

That's exactly the same here.
When anointed Christians die, their fleshly(physical) bodies are sown in the ground. The spiritual body they possess after resurrection to immortal life in heaven is totally different from their fleshly/human body. There's no combination of both physical and spiritual bodies. Please try and understand that.

You can't see spirits with your natural human eye except in a vision, through the gift of discerning of spirits or God permits it. But over 500 people saw Jesus Christ before ascended.

There's a difference between transforming the physical body to a spiritual body and discarded the physical body for a new.

People alive during the second coming will have their physical bodies transformed to spirit.

Again, spirits don't die, so the Spirit of Jesus Christ never died and therefore needed no resurrection only his flesh needed resurrection.

Read 2corithians5&15

2cor5:4
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life

I have a question for you. What happened to the buried body of Jesus Christ?

AkinwaleJJ:


You should have waited for response and not answer your own question from your traditional religionsist's ideology.

The day Jesus became a human, his life as a spirit was transformed into an embryo in the womb of Mary and after his birth he lived like a human, died as a human and was completely dead just as humans do die!
He died as a human not as a spirit that's why God's word confirmed that Jesus died and was raised.
His death sent a strong message to all his spirit brothers (angel) because for three consecutive days Jesus was dead completely, so they now know that God who created them knows how to send them to non-existence! 1Pet 3:18-19

Are you saying that the Spirit of Jesus Christ died for 3 days?

livingchrist:

Yes you are absolutely correct, el can be used to to describe great people eg judges of Israel and gibbor literally means great one or a hero.
But If I am not mistaken, the combination el gibbor was only used to describe yahweh in the bible,
Sometimes, judges, angels and heroic soldiers were called mighty or gibbor but none was called el gibbor or the mighty God which exclusively belongs to Jehovah

You're right, of course. No individual man or angel was ever called by the Bible itself el'ohim either. Of course, different characters in the Bible were reported as calling all sorts of things and people all sorts of names, just like the medium of Endor called Samuel el'ohim, but that does not mean that the Bible acknowledges those things or people addressed in that manner. The Bible only recognizes our God as el'ohim.

As for the term, "gibbor," it is a near synonym for "el." The latter is essentially used in terms of divinity while the former seems to address "strength" and "power" without necessarily involving a divine component. So, living men could be called "gibborim" without any real fear of being misunderstood to be divine entities. Still the context can decide who is meant when gibbor or gibborim is used. But when "el gibbor" is used, there can be no doubt that it is only a divine one that is meant.

livingchrist:
Good decision,

I think so too. I applaud your strength in standing up to them. To be able to do so without losing Christian charity or losing hold of the Truth is no mean feat at all.

AkinwaleJJ:


It was meant to serve as the Sacrifice for sin, according to God's arrangement the lamb used as a sacrifice is burnt completely because it bears the sin. So that body Jesus died with bears all the sin of Mankind therefore it's corruptible, for Jesus who was a mighty spirit being in heaven before to live again he doesn't need that corruptible body anymore now that he is clean.
Where most readers get confused is because Jesus formed a materialised body to convince Thomas so most readers thought since the body Jesus showed Thomas still appeared with the bruises therefore it's still that sacrificed body.
NO! It can't be because once a lamb is sacrificed, it is gone for good!

Who burned the body of Jesus Christ?

haddeylium:



These people still need lessons on the basis
They don't believe Jesus himself died. They believe he just shed his skin and his spirit/soul is chilling somewhere for three days ...
Pathetic!
So, where the Bible says Jesus was made alive in Spirit..it brings their reasoning to fault

ahhhh....Satan nah bastard

So, the Spirit of Jesus Christ died?

Depsui:

You can't see spirits with your natural human eye except in a vision, through the gift of discerning of spirits or God permits it. But over 500 people saw Jesus Christ before ascended.

Yes people saw him in the form of different materialised bodies just like Abraham saw angels who materialised into men(Genesis 18:1-8.)

There's a difference between transforming the physical body to a spiritual body and discarded the physical body for a new.
People alive during the second coming will have their physical bodies transformed to spirit.

So they won't die? Is that what you're saying? They will just stay and disappear?

Again, spirits don't die, so the Spirit of Jesus Christ never died and therefore needed no resurrection only his flesh needed resurrection.

What do you mean by ‘Spirits don't die’?
Do you know that ‘Spirit’ [Hebrew: ruach, Greek: pneuma] means several things in the Bible?
It can mean:
1. The breath of life in us.(Genesis 2:7, Ecclesiastes 12:7)
2. Spirit Persons i.e. Jehovah God and his army of angels. (Psalm 104:4, John 4:24)
3. God's holy spirit/active force.(Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6, Luke 11:13)
4. Tempest, wind etc

See, I won't reply to you anymore unless you're ready to understand the import of Genesis 2:7 here and that Jesus didn't have any spirit being inside him because when he was on earth, he was completely a HUMAN BEING.

Read 2corithians5&15
2cor5:4
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life

I have a question for you. What happened to the buried body of Jesus Christ?

One of the assignments Jesus was sent to complete on earth was to give up his life/soul as a ransom sacrifice to make atonement/do away with the sins of obedient mankind. (Matthew 20:28, 1Timothy 2:6)
And when he himself died on the torture stake, the breath of life in his nostrils was removed and then he became a dead soul. (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Luke 23:46)
He didn't keep living off somewhere else—as you might think. He offered up HIMSELF as a perfect lamb sacrifice once and for all—just as Daniel and Paul noted. His perfect human body served the purpose for the sacrifice of sins. (Daniel 9:24, Hebrews 9:26,28)

After completing his conquest, Jehovah God restored Jesus as a spirit creature that he once was before he came to the earth.(Job 38:7, Proverbs 8:22) But this time around, he was rewarded with the prize of immortality and more authority and honour was given to him.(Matthew 28:18, Romans 6:9-10, Philippians 2:9-11, 1Timothy 6:15)

Depsui:


Spirits don't die

Who taught you that?

The fact that they were created to live doesn't mean they can't die. The one who caused their existence equally has the power to kill them!

livingchrist:
was it a Spirit that was killed by the Roman soldiers?

It was a man that was killed and he died completely nothing survived his death!