Melvyn11:
He should lift his own country to win any trophy first of all.

4 Finals
4L's
0 goal
O Assist

Argentine Fraud.

As good as Messi is, this is one of the things that'll forever haunt his career.

thorrvik55:


I rate Maradonna higher than Messi (not cos Messi did not win trophy for Argentina or he did not move from one league to the other)..

No need for further debate necessary....

LostMyZeal:



Ahaaa....no wonder you're polluting this thread with yeye bias


Your Messi should never ever be compared to CR7 in any fvckin way...cos he's a fraud...and that is evident in his last 4 conquerous years in UCL


CR7 all through his career had to do things under enormous pressure and he handled it quite well
The man was not or I should say is not as Loved as Messi most likely cos your Messi appears gentle and CR7 is perceived to be arrogant.


Your beloved messi has had to make empty promises in his career with real and fake retirements in-between
If baba is not blaming the grass on the pitch he's blaming the ball because it is too light or he's blaming his teammates....and such a person is supposed to be a leader

If Messi is not a hypocrite ....why would he say the conmebol were hell bent on favouring Brazil over Argentina
But when he had xavi and Iniesta with Guardiola coaching them and FIFA was helping them do Ojoro upandan ...he enjoyed the fraud


Messi is just a cry baby that throws unnecessary tantrums when he is not favored cos he prolly thinks football revolves around him
And then he fools people with his calm demeanor...whereas; behind that fraudulent face, there's this outburst of arrogance begging to be unleashed



Don't ever compare that Hypocrite called Messi with the Likes of CR7 and Ibrahimovic... it's fvckin preposterous

Same way no one should ever compare the fraud called Guardiola with the likes of Klopp and Mourinho


#dropsMic

well his 6 ballon dor totally throws all these your argument to shit

Jodera:
It's Amazing how pele is called a great even tho he didn't jump from one league to another, but messi isn't a great.

And someone even called Ibrahimovic as a great sef... Like ibra

Well to play devil's advocate Pele did dominate a super league called the World Cup, winning 3 times and scoring 3 goals and 3 assists in 2 finals.

Not taking anything away from Messi's achievements, but it is what it is.

TrebleChamp:
No further argument then. Maradona was a football god in his prime.....

yeah he was that dope

JayKayMaybachz:
In your opinion, what country is historically the best at producing:

Goalkeepers
Defenders
Midfielder
Forwards

For me it's Italy for defenders and Spain for midfielders. I'm not sure about the other two.

forwards definitely argentina

afrodoc2:


Well to play devil's advocate Pele did dominate a super league called the World Cup, winning 3 times and scoring 3 goals and 3 assists in 2 finals.

Not taking anything away from Messi's achievements, but it is what it is.

Nice... Facts tho

afrodoc2:


Well to play devil's advocate Pele did dominate a super league called the World Cup, winning 3 times and scoring 3 goals and 3 assists in 2 finals.

Not taking anything away from Messi's achievements, but it is what it is.

Pele is not even a one club man, he also played football in the United State of American.

LostMyZeal:



Ahaaa....no wonder you're polluting this thread with yeye bias


Your Messi should never ever be compared to CR7 in any fvckin way...cos he's a fraud...and that is evident in his last 4 conquerous years in UCL


CR7 all through his career had to do things under enormous pressure and he handled it quite well
The man was not or I should say is not as Loved as Messi most likely cos your Messi appears gentle and CR7 is perceived to be arrogant.


Your beloved messi has had to make empty promises in his career with real and fake retirements in-between
If baba is not blaming the grass on the pitch he's blaming the ball because it is too light or he's blaming his teammates....and such a person is supposed to be a leader

If Messi is not a hypocrite ....why would he say the conmebol were hell bent on favouring Brazil over Argentina
But when he had xavi and Iniesta with Guardiola coaching them and FIFA was helping them do Ojoro upandan ...he enjoyed the fraud


Messi is just a cry baby that throws unnecessary tantrums when he is not favored cos he prolly thinks football revolves around him
And then he fools people with his calm demeanor...whereas; behind that fraudulent face, there's this outburst of arrogance begging to be unleashed



Don't ever compare that Hypocrite called Messi with the Likes of CR7 and Ibrahimovic... it's fvckin preposterous

Same way no one should ever compare the fraud called Guardiola with the likes of Klopp and Mourinho


#dropsMic

what's the basis of ranking IBRA higher than messi?

TrebleChamp:
Pele is not even a one club man, he also played football in the United State of American.

Nah. That was Pele's ghost playing in a monkey post league. It does not add to or take away from his claim to being the G.O.A.T.

Messi has not retired by the way. He might still go and play in the Korean or Chinese league one day which is the equivalent of Pele's soujorn in the U.S

But how did Ibrahimovic enter this debate? O wrong nau.

afrodoc2:


Nah. That was Pele's ghost playing in a monkey post league. It does not add to or take away from his claim to being the G.O.A.T.

Messi has not retired by the way. He might still go and play in the Korean or Chinese league one day which is the equivalent of Pele's soujorn in the U.S

Doc i rate Maradona over Pele, maybe because i didn't watch the latter play...

TrebleChamp:
Doc i rate Maradona over Pele, maybe because i didn't watch the latter play...

It is mainly because of that. Those who never watched Pele but grew up in the 80s usually say Maradona is the greatest. Those who watched neither but grew up in the 2000s and 2010s say Messi (or CR7) is the greatest.

I didn't watch Pele but after much research and consulting Otem i would say Pele is the greatest because he dominated at all levels both with individual honors and team titles.

There is a difference between greatest and best. Messi with his serial failures at international level and impotence in crucial international finals can't be greater than Pele. He might be better skilled but he is definitely not greater than a serial winner like O Rei.

afrodoc2:


It is mainly because of that. Those who never watched Pele but grew up in the 80s usually say Maradona is the greatest. Those who watched neither but grew up in the 2000s and 2010s say Messi (or CR7) is the greatest.

I didn't watch Pele but after much research and consulting Otem i would say Pele is the greatest because he dominated at all levels both with individual honors and team titles.

There is a difference between greatest and best. Messi with his serial failures at international level and impotence in crucial international finals can't be greater than Pele. He might be better skilled but he is definitely not greater than a serial winner like O Rei.

It's good to see an unbiased analysis here.

Let me add that people who love Messi think he is best. People who love Ronaldo think he is the best.


I think the GOAT argument is good for the media, no wonder they keep fanning its ember.

LostMyZeal:
Let's all pretend Like the Messi and Guardiola era in Barca was not a well arranged fraud in Football


Fraudiola and his squad of con men mostly rode on the bias of FIFA in favour of Barca


The biggest and most obvious act of fraud in Football was perpetrated by Pep in 2009 UCL and Chelsea was the victim....not to talk of the sending off of Pepe in 2011 UCL
where Madrid was the victim



It is for this reason that no reasonable individual should ever take Messi and Guardiola seriously.... because they were backed by FiFA and there wasn't much pressure on them


We all know the clear winner of the 2010 Ballon ...but


Why I dey shalaye sef


Long story short....Messi and Guardiola are the two biggest frauds in the history of football

Most fraudulent player
Most fraudulent Manager


If e pain you...you know what to do

Lmao.... na you e dey pain now. Players, coaches and journalists all over the world voted Messi as the best player in the world 6 different times but one boy that has lost his zeal is claiming fraud...

You can claim your fraud from now till Jesus comes, it wouldn't change the fact that Messi is recognized as the GOAT by most of the people that matter

LostMyZeal:



Ahaaa....no wonder you're polluting this thread with yeye bias


Your Messi should never ever be compared to CR7 in any fvckin way...cos he's a fraud...and that is evident in his last 4 conquerous years in UCL


CR7 all through his career had to do things under enormous pressure and he handled it quite well
The man was not or I should say is not as Loved as Messi most likely cos your Messi appears gentle and CR7 is perceived to be arrogant.


Your beloved messi has had to make empty promises in his career with real and fake retirements in-between
If baba is not blaming the grass on the pitch he's blaming the ball because it is too light or he's blaming his teammates....and such a person is supposed to be a leader

If Messi is not a hypocrite ....why would he say the conmebol were hell bent on favouring Brazil over Argentina
But when he had xavi and Iniesta with Guardiola coaching them and FIFA was helping them do Ojoro upandan ...he enjoyed the fraud


Messi is just a cry baby that throws unnecessary tantrums when he is not favored cos he prolly thinks football revolves around him
And then he fools people with his calm demeanor...whereas; behind that fraudulent face, there's this outburst of arrogance begging to be unleashed



Don't ever compare that Hypocrite called Messi with the Likes of CR7 and Ibrahimovic... it's fvckin preposterous

Same way no one should ever compare the fraud called Guardiola with the likes of Klopp and Mourinho


#dropsMic

Lol... this one is just a pained CR7 and Mourinho fan.

Messi has more goals and assists than Ronaldo while playing over 100 less games. He has more trophies and more individual honors

But at least you have drop mic

thorrvik55:
Agenda must Agenda I guess..

Wot has being a journey man got to do with being a Great player?? A league that the likes of run run Sterling dominate is the one Messi would struggle in.

which Sterling is dominating, which league?

BlueAngel444:
which Sterling is dominating, which league?

You should have just looked away.

spillo1:
It's been a while England had a balance squad like this . I wish southgate would stop using that 3-4-3 system and move to a standard 4-3-3 formation.


Sterling/Rashford Kane. Sancho/Sterling


Grealish


Henderson/Dier. Rice/Mount



Chilwell. Mag. Gomez. Walker/TAA

There is so much creativity and finishing prowess in that team plus players from the bench in Foden, Greenwood,Etc

Southgate clearly uses 3-4-3 when last did he use a back 4 and shouldn't it be Rice/Dier or Henderson/Mount

Grealish can only play that LW for England, meaning England have four wingers Grealish, Sterling, Sancho, Rashford, or more

Karleb:


You should have just looked away.

lol the thing enter my eye na

thorrvik55:


Ziyech right foot >> Bruno Fernandes.. #JustFacts

k

afrodoc2:


It is mainly because of that. Those who never watched Pele but grew up in the 80s usually say Maradona is the greatest. Those who watched neither but grew up in the 2000s and 2010s say Messi (or CR7) is the greatest.

I didn't watch Pele but after much research and consulting Otem i would say Pele is the greatest because he dominated at all levels both with individual honors and team titles.

There is a difference between greatest and best. Messi with his serial failures at international level and impotence in crucial international finals can't be greater than Pele. He might be better skilled but he is definitely not greater than a serial winner like O Rei.

Your argument is valid although I don't agree completely.

Pele played at a time when football was not that competitive. Players were not as physically fit as they are now, and it's easy to distinguish yourself when you're surrounded by mediocre or average athletes.

Besides, Pele played for very good teams. Brazil was so far ahead of others that they were able to win the world cup with Pele injured all through the tournament.

That's why I think Maradona is superior to Pele because he played in a competitive era.

For me, Messi is not only the best ever but the greatest ever because he has delivered outstanding performances consistently for almost 15 years and counting. He has the highest number of individual honors and his statistics are superior to any player.

No player combines all the facets of attacking- scoring, passing and dribbling like him. He was already getting GOAT shouts as far back as 2011 at 23 years old. By the time he is done with his career he will probably have the highest profile ever in football

BlueAngel444:
which Sterling is dominating, which league?

Name Left Wingers in the league better than Sterling, let's start from there

afrodoc2:


It is mainly because of that. Those who never watched Pele but grew up in the 80s usually say Maradona is the greatest. Those who watched neither but grew up in the 2000s and 2010s say Messi (or CR7) is the greatest.

I didn't watch Pele but after much research and consulting Otem i would say Pele is the greatest because he dominated at all levels both with individual honors and team titles.

There is a difference between greatest and best. Messi with his serial failures at international level and impotence in crucial international finals can't be greater than Pele. He might be better skilled but he is definitely not greater than a serial winner like O Rei.

The bolded got me cracking. Nice analysis here, this debate btw Pele and Maradona may no go away anything soon though...

randomperson:


Your argument is valid although I don't agree completely.

Pele played at a time when football was not that competitive. Players were not as physically fit as they are now, and it's easy to distinguish yourself when you're surrounded by mediocre or average athletes.

Besides, Pele played for very good teams. Brazil was so far ahead of others that they were able to win the world cup with Pele injured all through the tournament.

That's why I think Maradona is superior to Pele because he played in a competitive era.

For me, Messi is not only the best ever but the greatest ever because he has delivered outstanding performances consistently for almost 15 years and counting. He has the highest number of individual honors and his statistics are superior to any player.

No player combines all the facets of attacking- scoring, passing and dribbling like him. He was already getting GOAT shouts as far back as 2011 at 23 years old. By the time he is done with his career he will probably have the highest profile ever in football

Messi played for a dominant team at club level as well. He succeeded there so kudos to him but every time his country needed him to step up he failed.

Can you tell us how many goals or assists he has in finals for Argentina?

How many goals he has in the knockout stages of the World Cup?

If you are knocking Pele for playing for dominant national teams then we can also knock Messi for playing for dominant club teams.

Difference is Pele scored goals and won titles playing for both club and country. Whether it be Champions League or World Cup it didn’t matter. He was serving everybody thick fat Ls.

Let Messi try those his dribbles playing the Olumo rock they called ball in the 60s, on the rice farm they called pitch in the 60s, against the hired killers they called defenders in the 60s.

You yourself said Pele was kicked out of 2 world cups due to injuries. Those injuries didn’t happen due to prayers.

If we have only tape of Messi’s national career without his club career nobody will put him in GOAT category in 20 yrs time.

That is exactly what you lot are doing. Using mainly national team highlights to judge Pele because most of his club film has been lost.

TrebleChamp:
All the great players moved around different leagues to test themselves, we won't if Messi would succeed in either EPL or Seria cos he never moved. Maradona left Barcelona for Napoli and made them a European force winning the eufa Cup and club winners Cup i think. Messi's struggles with Argentina says alot about his ability outside Barcelona...

World champion wen dey run from fight na champion? Zero.

TrebleChamp:
The bolded got me cracking. Nice analysis here, this debate btw Pele and Maradona may no go away anything soon though...

If you delve deep into it and source as many Pele tapes as you can you will find that he was as skillful as these other guys.
If you factor in his goals at club and national team level plus his World Cup dominance he is the greatest.

And to the guy who said they were taking about Messi as GOAT at 23, Pele was in GOAT conversation at 21 and had sealed it at 25.

sleekdot:


Is any of Maldini, Baresi, Scholes Giggs, Xavi Iniesta a great player?

Them claim GOAT?

randomperson:


Your argument is valid although I don't agree completely.

Pele played at a time when football was not that competitive. Players were not as physically fit as they are now, and it's easy to distinguish yourself when you're surrounded by mediocre or average athletes.

Besides, Pele played for very good teams. Brazil was so far ahead of others that they were able to win the world cup with Pele injured all through the tournament.

That's why I think Maradona is superior to Pele because he played in a competitive era.

For me, Messi is not only the best ever but the greatest ever because he has delivered outstanding performances consistently for almost 15 years and counting. He has the highest number of individual honors and his statistics are superior to any player.

No player combines all the facets of attacking- scoring, passing and dribbling like him. He was already getting GOAT shouts as far back as 2011 at 23 years old. By the time he is done with his career he will probably have the highest profile ever in football

Is not only goat shout, what about Ram shout.

Mtcheew, a Perennial failure losing 4 straight finals for his country, annually been disgraced from the Champions league for 5 years in a row, 2-0, 3-0, 3-0, 4-0, 8-2, by Athletico, Juventus, fucking Roma, Liverpool, and Bayern respectively.

If Maradona and Pele were serial loser like this, would they be tagged as goat.

Before bringing the his goals assist, most dribbles, most legover into the argument, note this Laliga is a shit league for a good players to stat pad which Ronaldo did conveniently, with the best goal ratio per minute till date, scoring hatricks for fun.

I'm sure if Ronaldo remain in the Epl with is paltry 24, 27 league goals per season, Messi would be call his daddy, but look at how Ronaldo started recording 50 goals conveniently for 5 straight season in the so called best league in the world.

Messi is a great player, but shoe get size, Maradona and Pele didn't become a serial winner to be compare to some Laliga kingpin ooh, nuff said.

KingTom:

To be very honest, you made little sense with this analogy. To be very very honest and PS... You are a Pogba fan no dey disguise

Okay. Noted.

thorrvik55:


Name Left Wingers in the league better than Sterling, let's start from there

Sterling is a little bit above average at best, Son, Mane, Rashford, Pulisic, Richarlison won't be in that City's team without hitting double figures easily, City that play free flowing football under Guardiola, averaging 5-8 goal scoring chances per game, Abeegi.

schurley:


Is not only goat shout, what about Ram shout.

Mtcheew, a Perennial failure losing 4 straight finals for his country, annually been disgraced from the Champions league for 5 years in a row, 2-0, 3-0, 3-0, 4-0, 8-2, by Athletico, Juventus, fucking Roma, Liverpool, and Bayern respectively.

If Maradona and Pele were serial loser like this, would they be tagged as goat.

Before bringing the his goals assist, most dribbles, most legover into the argument, note this Laliga is a shit league for a good players to stat pad which Ronaldo did conveniently, with the best goal ratio per minute till date, scoring hatricks for fun.

I'm sure if Ronaldo remain in the Epl with is paltry 24, 27 league goals per season, Messi would be call his daddy, but look at how Ronaldo started recording 50 goals conveniently for 5 straight season in the so called best league in the world.

Messi is a great player, but shoe get size, Maradona and Pele didn't become a serial winner to be compare to some Laliga kingpin ooh, nuff said.

Anyone saying la Liga is a shit league is obviously ignorant.

Most UCLs and Europa leagues, better head-to-head against EPL teams and boasting of the best players in the history of the game.

Ronaldo's goal tally increased in la liga because of two issues:

1. He started playing with better creative players, Ozil, Alonso, Di Maria, Marcelo, benzema etc.

2. He started playing further forward

You want proof? Ronaldo's goal tally also increased substantially in the Champions league. Or is it la liga defenders that are in champions league to?

You can cry all you want but Messi's status as the best of the best is practically cemented.