₦airaland Forum

She already claiming benin-ife relationships when she can't even prove it


She brought a typical benin terracotta head artwork to claim benin ife relationship


Lol, i giess they shared some things in common
Mud abi sand

Lol


She also brought out bliers imaginary buried benin art sculpture buried in ife

And yet we can only get such claim from only bliers work


TAO11 obsession is unimaginable

I know how to deal with you

Roman general speaking directly to yoruba:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGS0aK-LuKY

"People should know when they are conquered"

So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

The attached screenshot below shows a regular feed-back from readers which always confirms to me that the days of Benin lies on Nairaland are over.

I wish I could transfer these “likes” and “shares” to some Bini less privileged so they can have some consolation to avert the impending suicide.


To the good people of Nairaland [including: Yoruba and Igbo as well as a few sand Binis (like @Atigba and @), among others]:

I say a big thank you for always confirming to me via “likes”, “shares”, comments, and emails that the days of Benin lies on Nairaland are OVER.

Cheers!

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

The title oba entered the yoruba lexicon through benin ventures into Eastern yoruba during its expansion, and soon diffused into all yorubas

There is a parable in owo, that says, just as the oba n' idu commands respect on earth olodumare commands respect in heaven
Despite interaction with eastern Yoruba they made a sizable contact with vast yoruba tribe too

Benins supplied the atilaries used in the yoruba civil war of late 1800

If we are to mention benin influence on vast yoruba land it will too numerous to mention


The yorubas always have the claim oromiyan came to establish the obaship stool on benin but when taken a deeper look into this history shows that it was a political staged myth of late 1800 after the benin invasion by the British, oba eweka11 sought monarchial help from the then ooni to help strengthening the political power of the edo people who was emerging from a devastating war that burnt down the city capital
You know the rest
The benin monarch accepted to be one of oduduwa son, in the hierarchy it was ooni first and oba of benin second, at these time alafin was still having superiority battle against the ooni, later when awolowo elevated the stool, the alafin subcumed and decided to stay at second displacing the oba to third position

So their argument on the ownership of the word oba has been defeated

It was mere politcs even the yoruba unification was not historical and ife was never thier ancestral town ife was a religious town to the yorubas


The title oba has bern in the yoruba lexicon as far
As 16century when benin expanded into their territory that would be 6centuries now
Despite the long age it has been in Yoruba lexicon it remains foreign to them

Imagine benin supplying yoruba warriors fighting atilaries, controlling their lands, giving them kings, controlling their market, just imagine how the title oba would sound to them


When the oba of benin was being taken to calabar by the British they had to cover his face to avoid uprise from both benin areas and non edo territorie

Note
Not until 1930 the ooni of ife used the word oba officially to adress is title letting go of the British sir in replacement of oba

He made a mistake of not foreseeing the end of the false political unification of benin people under yoruba umbrella he only saw the advantage of the name it would bring to his stool

He never proclaimed other yoruba monarchs to follow suit but automatically the other yoruba bought into adding oba to thier title

Note

Ogie is a title for duke only the oba of benin bears the title oba of benin

The question every tribe should ask yoruba is why do they adopt the word oba as a generic term for kingship when already is known to adress a popular monarch

I guess the answer can also be found in my writeup

Picture of one of the ooni holding an edo ceremonial sword wanting to mimic the benin stool, but i guess he later droped it

TAO11:
The attached screenshot below shows a regular feed-back from readers which always confirms to me that the days of Benin lies on Nairaland are over.

I wish I could transfer these “likes” and “shares” to some Bini less privileged so they can have some consolation to avert the impending suicide.


To the good people of Nairaland [including: Yoruba and Igbo as well as a few sand Binis (like @Atigba and @), among others]:

I say a big thank you for always confirming to me via “likes”, “shares”, comments, and emails that the days of Benin lies on Nairaland are OVER.

Cheers!

The title oba entered the yoruba lexicon through benin ventures into Eastern yoruba during its expansion, and soon diffused into all yorubas

There is a parable in owo, that says, just as the oba n' idu commands respect on earth olodumare commands respect in heaven
Despite interaction with eastern Yoruba they made a sizable contact with vast yoruba tribe too

Benins supplied the atilaries used in the yoruba civil war of late 1800

If we are to mention benin influence on vast yoruba land it will too numerous to mention


The yorubas always have the claim oromiyan came to establish the obaship stool on benin but when taken a deeper look into this history shows that it was a political staged myth of late 1800 after the benin invasion by the British, oba eweka11 sought monarchial help from the then ooni to help strengthening the political power of the edo people who was emerging from a devastating war that burnt down the city capital
You know the rest
The benin monarch accepted to be one of oduduwa son, in the hierarchy it was ooni first and oba of benin second, at these time alafin was still having superiority battle against the ooni, later when awolowo elevated the stool, the alafin subcumed and decided to stay at second displacing the oba to third position

So their argument on the ownership of the word oba has been defeated

It was mere politcs even the yoruba unification was not historical and ife was never thier ancestral town ife was a religious town to the yorubas


The title oba has bern in the yoruba lexicon as far
As 16century when benin expanded into their territory that would be 6centuries now
Despite the long age it has been in Yoruba lexicon it remains foreign to them

Imagine benin supplying yoruba warriors fighting atilaries, controlling their lands, giving them kings, controlling their market, just imagine how the title oba would sound to them


When the oba of benin was being taken to calabar by the British they had to cover his face to avoid uprise from both benin areas and non edo territorie

Note
Not until 1930 the ooni of ife used the word oba officially to adress is title letting go of the British sir in replacement of oba

He made a mistake of not foreseeing the end of the false political unification of benin people under yoruba umbrella he only saw the advantage of the name it would bring to his stool

He never proclaimed other yoruba monarchs to follow suit but automatically the other yoruba bought into adding oba to thier title

Note

Ogie is a title for duke only the oba of benin bears the title oba of benin

The question every tribe should ask yoruba is why do they adopt the word oba as a generic term for kingship when already is known to adress a popular monarch

I guess the answer can also be found in my writeup

Picture of one of the ooni holding an edo ceremonial sword wanting to mimic the benin stool, but i guess he later drooped it

Tao11 how do you get your likes

Four people viewing but you get 20likes, is this desperation are you hacking nairaland


Nawa oo


This circled is one reason behind TAO11 obsession despite the fact on reading benin books in amd out she still failed in mastering benins

Or probably knows the truth but hiding it for yorubaistic ego

Inside the compound of the palace of the one and only true Oba.
Before the british burnt it down:

Some Benin warrior chiefs who were captured by the british during the war.
Also notice Benin architecture all around.

There was a country, Benin Kingdom. The Oba lived in Benin city.

Altar in benin city, 1891, when Benin empire was still independent.

Ageing Oba Ovonramwen, in exile in Calabar, you can also see his son, the future Oba Eweka II.

Young Oba Ovonramwen. He had just lost the war to the british, his capital had just been burnt down, his belongings (including his royal uniform) had just been stolen, his empire had just been dislocated, but he still managed to smile. Lessons of life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jZ4_dXQGw

Oba Akenzua II

True African royalty.

Aba Akenzua II and his first son, the future Oba Erediawa.

Oba Akenzua, 1935

Benin general Ologbesere, the last general to be defeated by the british.
He fought for years like a lion !

One of the reasons I am showing all these photos is to help the yoruba day dreamers realize, we do not operate at the same level. Benin history is not fairytale, we are not discussing people climbing chains down from the sky, we are talking reality here ! Not science fiction. Since the yoruba are so keen on talking about Benin, let them see it for real at least.

Benin chiefs being held hostage by the british while the war was still on.
Benin architecture in the background.

Final assault on Benin City.

The fight at Ologbo

Hausa were cows to the British

Anyway benin don hijack this thread ooo

Benin city, architecture

davidmarker2:
By the way, the jebu used to despise the yoruba whom they considered inferior beings.
Jebu ancestors will be turning in their gravesif they were to be made aware of the fact some jebu now consider the ooni of ife as superior to the king of jebu.

Olodo!

When Ijebu itself had declared an offensive on Owu for what the Ijebus termed a sacrilegious affront by the Owu to even contemplate fighting Ife.

Hence the Owu Vs. Ijebu+Ife war in the very early 1800s

Benin street, before destruction by the british

Benin architecture, before destruction:

View of benin city, before destruction:

juju priest house, somewhere in Benin Kingdom, perharps Gwato

Oba Erediawa II

See attached below just so we have some comparative understanding.

Benin is not myth, benin is not fairytale, Benin is real !
That is the difference between Benin and the "attachee by force" tribe.

davidmarker2:
Benin is not myth, benin is not fairytale, Benin is real !
That is the difference between Benin and the "attachee by force" tribe.

See attached for a quotation by H.L. Roth which he obtained reports of EUrOpEaN travelers from Benin kingdom.

TAO11:
See attached below just so we have some comparative understanding.

This was one of The rascist from the white downplaying benin after the war.......


Nonsense man

Ooh she-male you thought we havnt seeing this quote lol

Maybe we have to post when they compared benin with lesbon