LegendHero:


This is another Oba of Benin wife called Olori.

http://africanroyalfamilies..com/2019/07/happy-birthday-to-hrh-queen-mother-of.html?m=1

This article is wrong... Queen mother are called iyoba in Benin not olori which is not even a Benin word

davidmarker2:

Called Olori by whom ?
The fact some guy called her olori does not equate to Edo people calling their Queens Olori. Is this so hard to understand ?
There are ignorant people everywhere especially in nigeria, you peoples education is one big joke.
How I thank God I left to study in europe.

looool... are you sure you are even bini?

Every true born Edo person knows than a queen is Olori. how you chose to pronounce it is up to you peeps... just the same way you lots pronounce Oba with the wrong intonation.

Yorubas are always copying benins even in worship of deity

scholes0:


looool... are you sure you are even bini?

Every true born Edo person knows than a queen is Olori. how you chose to pronounce it is up to you peeps... just the same way you lots pronounce Oba with the wrong intonation.

So what give u the authority to differentiate btw true Edo and fake?
Olori and oloi are not the same....

U guys have another translation for the word Queen ie ayaba... What if the supposed olori was copied from us?

scholes0:


looool... are you sure you are even bini?

Every true born Edo person knows than a queen is Olori. how you chose to pronounce it is up to you peeps... just the same way you lots pronounce Oba with the wrong intonation.

Sharap


A queen is called oloi, a queen motheris called iyoba


You lots soon forget we ruled your ass to start hurrying to claim

Very soon someone will say Benin borrowed the word oga.. all because they have a larger population

Watch how they will go from..."No, we don't call a queen Olori and it isn't even a Bini word" to.... "The Oloi/Olori of Benin is different from the Yoruba Olori" to.... "It is a shared common word from Niger Congo" to...... "It is an original Bini word that entered into Yoruba" ....

Benin people, una DOH!

[img]http:///65535/50657920977_2603b1711c_c.jpg[/img]

The one thing which I found out is most nigerians fail to understand is the concept of time.
Well that is a thing common to all humanity, it takes brain training to overcome it.
When I was a kid, I heard of Carthage, I heard it was a great empire, but when I looked at tunisia in a map I told myself all those were exagerated.
But what I should have understood is that time changes everything, what was true hundreds of years ago, may not be true today.
The borders of cuntries have shifted during the time span...
To understand history, you must first understand the concept of time.
Also it might be useful to understand Shroëdinger's cat story.

scholes0:
Watch how they will go from..."No, we don't call a queen Olori and it isn't even a Bini word" to.... "The Oloi/Olori of Benin is different from the Yoruba Olori" to.... "It is a shared common word from Niger Congo" to...... "It is an original Bini word that entered into Yoruba" ....

Benin people, una DOH!

[img]http:///65535/50657920977_2603b1711c_c.jpg[/img]

firstly... Pls explain how Benin copied the word

Queen Mother is different from Queen.

cc: Etinosa1234

Etinosa1234:
firstly... Pls explain how Benin copied the word

Dude, as I keep trying to explain, ignorant people abound in nigeria.
the fact someone used the wrong word doesn't mean the word is now standard amongst the Edo.
The only title I know is Iyoba and it was created by the Oba of Benin for his mother.
Other than that, there is no official title for the wives of the Oba (to the best of my knowledge). We call them Queens as a paraphrase of the british word.

davidmarker2:
[s]Picture 1: adesoji aderemi, the ooni of ife who was the first ooni to copy the "Oba" title. Notice that the habbit of calling him "Oba" had not sat in yet. He is being referred to as "sir" in many captions[/s].

Insecure Bini Liar: Look, the Ooni of Ife uses “Sir” instead of “Oba”

Sane Person: In what capacity did he use the designation “Sir”? Is it with respect to his traditional stool?

Insecure Bini Liar: [scratches bald head and goes] Well, that was in his capacity as a politician and governor of Western Nigeria

Sane Person: Why did you post this when you already no it will be nonsense?

Insecure Bini Liar: I am a Benin boy — AKA. I peddle falsehood for a living.

[s]Picture 2: The actual real ife crown met by aderemi adesoji, before he created a new one which was made in the model of the Benin crown.[/s]

Well, no Ife crown looks like Benin crown. The crown Ife dispatched originally to Benin is different from the one we use for ourselves in Ife.

Moreover, the embedded image below is the crown Ewuare II met on ground.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759346_bcae8dfa4eab4a62b716a54b831903d3_jpeg_jpeg59402b0ca576eb809b70f9aad63fd033


The second screenshot is the fake one he created just to resemble the Yorubas’ tall Ade-Nla.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759347_740e49eb760f43daa5c14504578e0bd9_jpeg_jpegf464a6611b8d8a58bd78766b8fbade2e

Do you enjoy this logic or you want to drop it. Till then.

[s]Also notice he had no Benin sword being held near him, yet. The person who copied the Benin sword is the ooni of ife preceding the current ooni of ife[/s]

FALSE as always.

The embedded image below shows Oba Adesoji Aderemi with the Ada.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759394_614ffe2c34f0443b8f07207288697c41_jpeg_jpegb48e53e7d74aadf800f4308526a9e082

[s]Picture 4: Notice how the crowd is admirative of the Oba of Benin, notice the ooni of ife adesoji aderemi is part of the admirative crowd.[/s]

The peak of insecurity and inferiority complex. A father admired his son though — more like: I’m proud of you son.

Anyways, the embedded image below shows your Oba Akenzua II when he came to Ife for confirmation as part of his installation rites.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759415_515ddf32451b4b4db7d70e9bfb8b5a71_jpeg_jpegb6963f111547c470c69cef32b7828678


I can show you picture of the other Obas after him (Erediauwa and Ewuare II ) also in Ife.

1st attachment is Erediauwa in Ife for confirmation and culminating installation rites.

The 2nd attachment is the reigning one (Ewuare II) in Ife for confirmation and culminating installation rites.

Ife kings never go to Benin on ascension. It’s always the other way round.

Etinosa1234:
firstly... Pls explain how Benin copied the word

The same way they copied Osun and Ogun and Oronmila and Itan (Historical accounts).

I will consult the Bini dictionary soon and see if it “Oloi” or “Olori” was originally borrowed from the Yoruba language.

Stay tuned

cc: scholes0, Etinosa1234

So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demostrandum!

cc: Afam4eva

scholes0:


The same way they copied Osun and Ogun and Oronmila and Itan (Historical accounts).

Shut the fuvkup if u don't know what you are saying
This is the first dictionary compiled by Samuel Ajayi Crowther
He clearly interpretes Queen as ayaba

So explain how Benin copied the olori word for queen

If u don't know something say it instead of saying nonsense and waiting for Tao to save ur ass

A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language, Compiled by the Rev. Samuel Crowther ... Together with Introductory Remarks, by the Rev. O.E. Vidal 1852

For the final time, I have never heard, my parents or my grand parents call any of our Queens by the name "olori".
A lot of confusion is going on, due to the fact, education in nigeria is non existant.
The only Queen of Benin who has an offical Benin title is the Iyoba !
End of story.

This is only a distraction for the fact that I have proven the title "Oba" was copied by ooni adesoji aderemi.
Benin people stop falling for yoruba cheap tactics.

some are denying it outright
some others are disputing the origin

E pele.

scholes0:
some are denying it outright
some others are disputing the origin

E pele.

U have finally said what u can't prove

How do u feel

Fake crown, created by the ooni of ife adesoji aderemi to imitate the crown of the Oba of Benin.

Etinosa1234:


Shut the fuvkup if u don't know what you are saying
This is the first dictionary compiled by Samuel Ajayi Crowther
He clearly interpretes Queen as ayaba

So explain how Benin copied the olori word for queen

If u don't know something say it instead of saying nonsense and waiting for Tao to save ur ass

A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language, Compiled by the Rev. Samuel Crowther ... Together with Introductory Remarks, by the Rev. O.E. Vidal 1852

And a queen wive is ayamo

Etinosa you get sense i would have not reason to use thsg drunkard book against them


They won dey claim

Oloi to olori


Afam4eva we don catch them again

Etinosa1234:


U have finally said what u can't prove

How do u feel

Can't be bothered by benin denialisms.
Not new....... one of your friends u there is even denying the existence of the word.

the crown adesoji aderemi met when he became ooni of ife (this it seems is the actual crown he met, I showed a look alike version earlier on). This is the real thing.

davidmarker2:
Fake crown, created by the ooni of ife adesoji aderemi to imitate the crown of the Oba of Benin.

Lol bursting their bubbles

scholes0:



Can't be bothered by benin denialisms.
Not new....... one of your friends u there is even denying the existence of the word.

The word is not even in an 1852 dictionary... What now makes u think Benin borrowed it from Yoruba...


Stop displaying ur ignorance on a public forum

The current ooni of ife copying the dress of the king of the ashanti
To the ooni's defense, he mixed it up with something else: "a shirt".

the fact is yoruba are culture-copycats.

Etinosa1234:


The word is not even in an 1852 dictionary... What now makes u think Benin borrowed it from Yoruba...


Stop displaying ur ignorance on a public forum

It’s in the dictionary you quoted I will embedd shortly.

See 3rd attachment for “Olorì” — from Crowther’s 1852 dictionary

Moreover, here is evidence from your Bini dictionary that the Bini word “oloi” has its origin in the Yoruba word “Olori”.

See attached.

cc: scoles0, davidmarker2, Afam4eva

TAO11:


Insecure Bini Liar: Look, the Ooni of Ife uses “Sir” instead of “Oba”

Sane Person: In what capacity did he use the designation “Sir”? Is it with respect to his traditional stool?

Insecure Bini Liar: [scratches bald head and goes] Well, that was in his capacity as a politician and governor of Western Nigeria

Sane Person: Why did you post this when you already no it will be nonsense?

Insecure Bini Liar: I am a Benin boy — AKA. I peddle falsehood for a living.


Well, no Ife crown looks like Benin crown. The crown Ife dispatched originally to Benin is different from the one we use for ourselves in Ife.

Moreover, the embedded image below is the crown Ewuare II met on ground.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759346_bcae8dfa4eab4a62b716a54b831903d3_jpeg_jpeg59402b0ca576eb809b70f9aad63fd033


The second screenshot is the fake one he created just to resemble the Yorubas’ tall Ade-Nla.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759347_740e49eb760f43daa5c14504578e0bd9_jpeg_jpegf464a6611b8d8a58bd78766b8fbade2e

Do you enjoy this logic or you want to drop it. Till then.

FALSE as always.

The embedded image below shows Oba Adesoji Aderemi with the Ada.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759394_614ffe2c34f0443b8f07207288697c41_jpeg_jpegb48e53e7d74aadf800f4308526a9e082

The peak of insecurity and inferiority complex. A father admired his son though — more like: I’m proud of you son.

Anyways, the embedded image below shows your Oba Akenzua II when he came to Ife for confirmation as part of his installation rites.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12759415_515ddf32451b4b4db7d70e9bfb8b5a71_jpeg_jpegb6963f111547c470c69cef32b7828678


I can show you picture of the other Obas after him (Erediauwa and Ewuare II ) also in Ife.

1st attachment is Erediauwa in Ife for confirmation and culminating installation rites.

The 2nd attachment is the reigning one (Ewuare II) in Ife for confirmation and culminating installation rites.

Ife kings never go to Benin on ascension. It’s always the other way round.

All these kings you mention going to see ooni in their books they wrote that ooni is their son

More like if the son does not find the father, the father out of wisdom would find is son


Dont make indulge in the political myth of oduduwa please

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demostrandum!

cc: Afam4eva

The title oba entered the yoruba lexicon through benin ventures into Eastern yoruba during its expansion, and soon diffused into all yorubas

There is a parable in owo, that says, just as the oba n' idu commands respect on earth olodumare commands respect in heaven
Despite interaction with eastern Yoruba they made a sizable contact with vast yoruba tribe too

Benins supplied the atilaries used in the yoruba civil war of late 1800

If we are to mention benin influence on vast yoruba land it will too numerous to mention


The yorubas always have the claim oromiyan came to establish the obaship stool on benin but when taken a deeper look into this history shows that it was a political staged myth of late 1800 after the benin invasion by the British, oba eweka11 sought monarchial help from the then ooni to help strengthening the political power of the edo people who was emerging from a devastating war that burnt down the city capital
You know the rest
The benin monarch accepted to be one of oduduwa son, in the hierarchy it was ooni first and oba of benin second, at these time alafin was still having superiority battle against the ooni, later when awolowo elevated the stool, the alafin subcumed and decided to stay at second displacing the oba to third position

So their argument on the ownership of the word oba has been defeated

It was mere politcs even the yoruba unification was not historical and ife was never thier ancestral town ife was a religious town to the yorubas


The title oba has bern in the yoruba lexicon as far
As 16century when benin expanded into their territory that would be 6centuries now
Despite the long age it has been in Yoruba lexicon it remains foreign to them

Imagine benin supplying yoruba warriors fighting atilaries, controlling their lands, giving them kings, controlling their market, just imagine how the title oba would sound to them


When the oba of benin was being taken to calabar by the British they had to cover his face to avoid uprise from both benin areas and non edo territorie

Note
Not until 1930 the ooni of ife used the word oba officially to adress is title letting go of the British sir in replacement of oba

He made a mistake of not foreseeing the end of the false political unification of benin people under yoruba umbrella he only saw the advantage of the name it would bring to his stool

He never proclaimed other yoruba monarchs to follow suit but automatically the other yoruba bought into adding oba to thier title

Note

Ogie is a title for duke only the oba of benin bears the title oba of benin

The question every tribe should ask yoruba is why do they adopt the word oba as a generic term for kingship when already is known to adress a popular monarch

I guess the answer can also be found in my writeup

Picture of one of the ooni holding an edo ceremonial sword wanting to mimic the benin stool, but i guess he later drooped it

ooni of ife goes to british museum in search of yoruba art, he meets one poor "yoruba head" surounded by a legion of Benin art.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

gregyboy:



All these kings you mention going to see ooni in their books they wrote that ooni is their son

More like if the son does not find the father, the father out of wisdom would find is son


Dont make indulge in the political myth of oduduwa please

And to drive your point home:

The Oba of Benin going to visit an other of his sons:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zK2bsZhPIo
time stamp 1:53