EdoDefence:


You know it's funny how when we go ballistic on your miserable Ancestors seun and the useless mods run to ban us but when it's the Yar!ba cone heads insult us it fine by the mods.
Am not surprised Nairaland was made by a Yar!ba so I understand why he sides his fellow cone heads

if you are not okay with a Yoruba created forum, go create yours and stop been a parasite

TAO11:
LMAO! The rate at which you’re running out of ideas lately is frighteningly alarming.
because his ancestors disagree with him.

[I have evidence]

because the Lagos account (which was complied and published by the colonial authorities several decades before he was ever conceived) disagrees with him.

[I have evidence]

because his ancestors disagree with him.

[I have evidence]

I agree with them because this a religious narrative.

On the fact that human beings don’t literally pop out from the sky,

[I have evidence]

I agree with him to the extent of the Ife religious belief that all nations and persons descend from Ife.

For the existence of this Ife belief,

[I have evidence]

Just for information sake, Benin has an equivalent of such belief.

[I have evidence]

because historians have traced such narration to have actually originated from Hausa-Fulanis rather than Yorubas.

[I have evidence]

because historians (one of whom you indicated that you trust) have demonstrated that such statements are relatively recently made-up political propaganda.

[I have evidence]

The pattern of sticking with reality, and leaving out what isn’t.

Yes this causes you so much grief and sorrow. Learn to live with it.

because virtually all histories (including those of Benin kingdom) have multiple versions of the same episode.

[I have evidence]

And that’s why we have historians to do their job. And they’ve been awesome!

And this 1603 report does NOT disagree with the Lagos account in the slightest detail.

It says nothing about the roots the first Eleko [the Eleko dynasty is, in fact, yet to begin at the time].

It also says nothing about how the Bini immigrants came to originally settle-in into Lagos — peaceful negotiation with natives or violent conquest?

Nothing was said in the report about their coming.

[I have evidence]

On a low-key; I love this summary.

Cc: Ideadoctor, Balogunodua, babtoundey, Obalufon, newton85, macof, gomojam, EdoDefence

TAO11 HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

According to the Awori Yoruba owners of Lagos the first Crowned Oba of Lagos ADO was an Royal Oduduwa lineage Awori man of Isheri Origin and from the Ogunfunminire Family which Migrated from Oduduwa's Palace at Ile-Ife

What could be conceeded to Benin is the fact that his mother was a Benin princess hence the Oba of Benin was his MATERNAL Grandfather


The Benin just say Ado was a son of Oba of Benin but leave out the all important point that he was a son of the Oba of Benins daughter who was married to Ashipa a Royal Awori man of Ile Ife descent Which makes Ado an Awori Yoruba man by lineage.


The Oba of Benin first chose Ashipa who died before being crowned then the Oba Chose Ashipa's son Ado whose father Ashipa was Awori Yoruba and whose mother was Benin because he accepted that the Awori would not accept a non Yoruba king and the Oba of Benin desperately needed a Lagos base to trade with the Portuguese

Ashipa was the first choose King of Lagos but died before he was Crowned so his Son Ado became the first Crowned Oba of Lagos.

It seems some Bini have a habit of rewriting History to boost their ego.

Itsekiri and Yoruba versions of History line up, Ijaw and Yoruba Versions of History line up, Yoruba/Portuguese ,Yoruba/Ogiamien version of History line up


It is only Yoruba /Benin
, Ijaw/Benin, Itsekiri/Benin, Ogiamien/Benin , Esan/Benin versions of History that are in complete disarray and are at loggerheads with each other.


Please can you message me a copy of the Lagos account (which was complied and published by the colonial authorities)

Christistruth00:

TAO11 HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

According to the Awori Yoruba owners of Lagos the first Crowned Oba of Lagos ADO was an Royal Oduduwa lineage Awori man of Isheri Origin and from the Ogunfunminire Family which Migrated from Oduduwa's Palace at Ile-Ife

What could be conceeded to Benin is the fact that his mother was a Benin princess hence the Oba of Benin was his MATERNAL Grandfather


The Benin just say Ado was a son of Oba of Benin but leave out the all important point that he was a son of the Oba of Benins daughter who was married to Ashipa a Royal Awori man of Ile Ife descent Which makes Ado an Awori Yoruba man by lineage.


The Oba of Benin Chose Ado whose father was Awori Yoruba and whose mother was Benin because he accepted that the Awori would not accept a non Yoruba king and the Oba of Benin desperately needed Lagos to trade with the Portuguese

Ashipa was the first choose King of Lagos but died before he was Crowned so his Son Ado became the first Crowned Oba of Lagos.

It seems some Bini have a habit of rewriting History to boost their ego.

Itsekiri and Yoruba versions of History line up, Ijaw and Yoruba Versions of History line up, Yoruba/Portuguese ,Yoruba/Ogiamien version of History line up


It is only Yoruba /Benin
, Ijaw/Benin, Itsekiri/Benin, Ogiamien/Benin , Esan/Beninnversions of History that are in complete disarray and ate at loggerheads with each other.


Please can you message me a copy of the Lagos account (which was complied and published by the

Thanks for the correction and update.

But •••

Christistruth00

Christistruth00:
••• The Oba of Benin Choose Ado whose father was Awori Yoruba and whose mother was Benin because he accepted that the Awori would not accept a non Yoruba king and the Oba of Benin desperately needed Lagos to trade with the Portuguese•••

I have just acknowledged your updates above. Thank you.

But please examine the bolded part of your comment here carefully

May you then carefully compare it with what the Lagos account actually says as attached below??

Do you notice any gap ??

Yes, there is.

I hate to say this, but please modify.

Thank you.

[My history is actually dear to me — that’s why].

Peace!

Cc: Christistruth00

Let’s be careful not to mislead the general public intentionally or unintentionally.

Let’s post only what we’re certain to substantiate and rationalize.

We’re Yorubas, we should set the pace. We know better.

Please modify your comments accordingly.

Thanks. Cheers. Peace!

Christistruth00

TAO11:
Please modify the part of your comment which I bolded or provide evidence for it. Thanks!

Ashipa is the first Oba of Lagos — his parentage is Awori-Yoruba from Isheri — hence from Ife.

Ado his son is the one whose mother is Benin.

Happy New Year

It was Ado I was referring to I included his name in the rest of my post.
The Awori say Ashipa was the first chosen king of Lagos but he died before he was crowned so Ado was the first crowned king of Lagos

Christistruth00:
It was Ado I was referring to I included his name in the rest of my post.
They say Ashipa was the first choose king of Lagos but died before he was crowned so Ado was the first crown king of Lagos

Thank you, sir.

Cheers!

Christistruth00

Christistruth00:
It was Ado I was referring to I included his name in the rest of my post.

The Awori say Ashipa was the first chosen king of Lagos but he died before he was crowned so Ado was the first crowned king of Lagos

Also, can you please cite me a source for this crown topic too if you have it.

I have for long wondered why some Lagos king lists say Ado is the first “official king” while simply recognizing Ashipa as founder of the dynasty.

The most I’ve read on this specific topic is from Sir Alan Burns’ work where he simply noted that Ashipa didn’t have very much authority during his reign.

I would personally think this is due to fact that the ruler of Iddo island (who also controlled Lagos island) was still wielding much authority during this early beginning of the Lagos island independent monarchy .

Even Yusuf Olatunji (the late olden Sakara crooner) also gave the official Lagos king list in his record (Awon Oba Eko) singing:

”Ado lo ko j’Oba Eko — Oba ni

Oba ni Gabaro — Oba ni

Akishemoyin — Oba ni

**** [He omitted Eletu Kekere in his list. I now know why he did this.]

Olugun Kutere ee — Oba ni

Adele Ajosun — Oba ni

Eshilokun — Oba ni

Idewu Ojulari — Oba ni

Oba l’Oluwole — Oba ni

Oba l’Akitoye — Oba ni

Kosoko-Morounfolu — Oba ni

Oba Dosunmu — Oba ni

Oba l’Oyekan — Oba ni

Oba l’Eshugbayi — Oba ni

Oba Falolu — Oba ni

Adele Musendiku — Oba ni

Adeyimika Oyekan — Oba ni

Sule Adisa — Omo Oba ni

B’Oba ba kan-e, a o sh’Eyo lorishirishi araye agbo •••”

I love these Sakara and Apala music — they’re full of history sometimes.

TAO11:
Also can you please cite me a source for this crown topic too if you have it.

I have for long wondered why some Lagos king list say Ado is the first “official king” while simply recognizing Ashipa as founder of the dynasty.

The most I’ve read on this specific topic is from Sir Alan Burns’ work where he simply noted that Ashipa didn’t have very much authority during his reign.

I would personally think this is due to fact that the ruler of Iddo island (who also controlled Lagos island) was still wielding much authority during this early beginning of the Lagos island independent monarchy .

Even Yusuf Olatunji (the late olden Sakara crooner) also gave his official Lagos king list in his record (Awon Oba Eko) singing:

”Ado lo ko j’Oba Eko — Oba ni

Oba ni Gabaro — Oba ni

Akishemoyin — Oba ni

**** [He omitted Eletu Kekere in his list. I now know why he did this.]

Olugun Kutere ee — Oba ni

Adele Ajosun — Oba ni

Eshilokun — Oba ni

Idewu Ojulari — Oba ni

Oba l’Oluwole — Oba ni

Oba l’Akitoye — Oba ni

Kososko-Morounfolu — Oba ni

Oba Dosunmu — Oba ni

Oba l’Oyekan — Oba ni

Oba l’Eshugbayi — Oba ni

Oba Falolu — Oba ni

Adele Musendiku — Oba ni

Adeyimika Oyekan — Oba ni

Sule Adisa — Omo Oba ni

B’Oba ba kan-e, a o sh’Eyo lorishirishi araye agbo •••”

I love these Sakara and Apala music — they’re full of history sometimes.

I read the History on one of the Awori Obas website and noticed it was exactly the same as what was on another Awori Obas website I am trying to find out which kings they were exactly cause I read it a little while ago

Christistruth00:
I read the History on one of the Awori Obas website and noticed it was exactly the same as what was on another Awori Obas website I am trying to find out which kings they were exactly cause I read it a little while ago

Oh okay. Thanks.

What Alan Burns stated in the Lagos account is actually not mutually exclusive to the reasons you found on those webpages.

The crown is a symbol of authority which he didn’t have according to those webpages.

And Sir Alan Burns stated (as may be seen in that screenshot) that he had no authority.

The “crown” perspective actually sheds more insight into what Alan Burns had gathered.

Thank you.

samuk:


1. You disagree with Awujale of Ijebu version of his oral history that denies his Ife root.

2. You disagree with Oba of Lagos claim that the first Oba of Lagos is the Male descendant of Oba of Benin.

3. You disagree with Oba of Benin version of the oral history of Oduduwa that traces him to Benin.

4. You disagree with the past Ooni when he says Oduduwa climbed down from heaven with chains

5. You disagree with the current Ooni when he stated that Ooni become Egyptian God Osiris when they die.

6. You disagree with the version of Oduduwa history that traces his origin to Saudi Arabia.

7. You disagree with S. Johnson claim in his book that Ooni is the descendant of a shrine keeper.

Hope you can see a pattern in how you choose what you believe and what not to believe.

Yoruba history is full of various versions of the same myth, the confusion arises because of the lack of eyewitness historical evidence in Yoruba history/stories. Yoruba history is made up as you go. Even you can wake up one day and write your own versions as it suits your ego. This is why we argued that Yoruba don't have history but made up stories.

Yoruba have myths, tales by moonlight, folklore, folktales, stories and no history.

The Lagos history is exempted because it has a 1603 eyewitness European historical account which is older than all your recent fabricated references

Why keep debating her on lagos issue when you can simply just post the 16century refrence and end every rubbish she wrote..... Why allow her use foreign literature to debate you when you can drag her to the earliest yorubas historian samuel johnson alone and use it on her and you can also use samuel johnson works to checkmate the works of her foreign authors if any of their works goes contrary to samuel johnson works, then nail her with it by holding on to samuel johson account

She is using egharevba against you yet you guyd aint using samuel johnson against her, make sure if it not samuel johnson don't buy into others, because samuel johnson wrote not only as s yoruba msn but wrote with no cultural biases


She is is using you guys to kill her burden, she is probably a bi polar patient dragging people like you into her world



If she was debating me she would have left nairaland for a very long time now,


This is 2021 ooh you can waste your time in circles

TAO11:
Oh okay. Thanks.

What Alan Burns stated in the Lagos account is actually not mutually exclusive to the reasons you found on those webpages.

The crown is a symbol of authority which he didn’t have according to those webpages.

And Sir Alan Burns stated (as may be seen in that screenshot) that he had no authority.

The “crown” perspective actually sheds more insight into what Alan Burns had gathered.

Thank you.

The Awori Yoruba versions see the Oba of Lagos as a trade representative of the Oba of Benin and that was why he was of Baale (District head) Status till 1956. He was the king of the Slave Market on Lagos Island. Just like Oba Sabo,
That is why he had no land and the British accepted that the Idejo were the real land owners
The Awori Aromire family gave the Oba of Lagos the Land his Palace was built on.
His status was that of a Babaloja of the Lagos Slave Markets

He doesn't even have any authority over Onikoyi who is on the same Island

The Olota of Ota is the Paramount ruler of the Awori and he is the son of the Olosolo of Isolo in Lagos who was the first ruler of Sango-Ota

TAO11:
Oh okay. Thanks.

What Alan Burns stated in the Lagos account is actually not mutually exclusive to the reasons you found on those webpages.

The crown is a symbol of authority which he didn’t have according to those webpages.

And Sir Alan Burns stated (as may be seen in that screenshot) that he had no authority.

The “crown” perspective actually sheds more insight into what Alan Burns had gathered.

Thank you.

The Oba of Lagos was actually a Babaloja of the Lagos Slave Markets he had no real Power.
His leadership of the Idejo Chiefs was more like being the head of a Self defense Cooperative with the Idejo Chiefs as members

Christistruth00:


The Oba of Lagos was actually a Babaloja of the Lagos Slave Markets he had no real Power.
His leadership of the Idejo Chiefs was more like being the head of a Self defense Cooperative with the Idejo Chiefs as members

Benin were never seafarers Portuguese brought the Benins to island Lagos as representative and slave hunters..

EdoDefence:


You know it's funny how when we go ballistic on your miserable Ancestors seun and the useless mods run to ban us but when it's the Yar!ba cone heads insult us it fine by the mods.
Am not surprised Nairaland was made by a Yar!ba so I understand why he sides his fellow cone heads

Cry me a river

When Edo miscreant has nothing to say..they result to wailing your brother's started what they can't finish and Usainbolt when it's beyond them... yes Nairaland is a Yoruba forum if you say so... created by a true and creative Yoruba son ... something no Edo uncreative miscreants can do in hundreds of years to come....you can cry all you can nobody gives a fvck about your wailing...

gregyboy:



Why keep debating her on lagos issue when you can simply just post the 16century refrence and end every rubbish she wrote..... Why allow her use foreign literature to debate you when you can drag her to the earliest yorubas historian samuel johnson alone and use it on her and you can also use samuel johnson works to checkmate the works of her foreign authors if any of their works goes contrary to samuel johnson works, then nail her with it by holding on to samuel johson account

She is using egharevba against you yet you guyd aint using samuel johnson against her, make sure if it not samuel johnson don't buy into others, because samuel johnson wrote not only as s yoruba msn but wrote with no cultural biases


She is is using you guys to kill her burden, she is probably a bi polar patient dragging people like you into her world



If she was debating me she would have left nairaland for a very long time now,


This is 2021 ooh you can waste your time in circles

She already dealt with you guyz...post it again and get disgraced...

Balogunodua:

Cry me a river

When Edo miscreant has nothing to say..they result to wailing your brother's started what they can't finish and Usainbolt when it's beyond them... yes Nairaland is a Yoruba forum if you say so... created by a true and creative Yoruba son ... something no Edo uncreative miscreants can do in hundreds of years to come....you can cry all you can nobody gives a fvck about your wailing...

Just like no one gives a fvck about your wailing either . Rewrite history from now till 2moro and Benin will still remain Benin
Wail on Yar!ba cone head

[s]

Balogunodua:

She already dealt with you guyz...post it again and get disgraced...

[/s]

[s]

Balogunodua:

Cry me a river

When Edo miscreant has nothing to say..they result to wailing your brother's started what they can't finish and Usainbolt when it's beyond them... yes Nairaland is a Yoruba forum if you say so... created by a true and creative Yoruba son ... something no Edo uncreative miscreants can do in hundreds of years to come....you can cry all you can nobody gives a fvck about your wailing...

[/s]

EdoDefence:


Just like no one gives a fvck about your wailing either . Rewrite history from now till 2moro and Benin will still remain Benin
Wail on Yar!ba cone head

Kikikiki... me wailing...I laugh in Togo your coward brothers are the ones having sleepless night about Yoruba...they kept creating threads about Yoruba and Ooni they kept claiming where does no belongs to them..from Lagos to Ondo to Ekiti to Kogi to Imo to Onitcha etc.... but guess what?? They got disgraced multiple times Benin can go fvck itself nobody cares as long as they stay in their lane.....

TAO11:
Can you direct me to your source where Oba Akenzua II approved or sanctioned the 1970s forgery ??

The only account which the Benin palace sanctions as “official” are those which Egharevba gathered from the court of Oba Akenzua II.

These accounts are the ones known as the “official” traditions. These accounts are those which the Palace grants to historians as the “official”.

As Bondarenko puts it, these accounts collected from Akenzua II’s court by Chief Egharevba are “the Benin “official” (i.e., traditionally recognized by Oba themselves and most widely spread among common Bini)”.

Despite the announcement of the apocryphal version in the late 1970s, the Bini historian, Prince Enawekponmwen B. Eweka 1989: iv, 15, 16, 18 continues to recognize the “official royalist tradition” for the sake of academia.

As I have demonstrated and as historians have noted, the recent apocryphal and deliberately unauthentic version continues to be in the public sphere for its purpose of shifting political goalposts.

You probably followed my comment from the back of your phone.

Cyril Punch’s account has nothing to do with Oduduwa.

I’m quite certain that after you’ve relaxed your nerves, you would realize that I’m discussing historical accounts and not people’s personal or general religious beliefs.

The only obviously valid historical account of Oduduwa’s roots is that which originate ab-initio from the Yorubas themselves.

And that is the account which states definitively that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man who hailed from one of the hilly settlements surrounding the vast expanse of the Ife bowl — perhaps the Oke-Ora hill particularly.

And to correct a falsehood which Saamu has sweated tirelessly but in vain to perpetuate, this traditional account was not first put into writing in the year 2010.

Although I recognize that the year it was written would only be an issue IF there was an earlier contrary Yoruba-originated historical account to it. But there isn’t.

However, the historical work I cited in that thread was published in 2010 but its author was clearly citing two independent historians who cited the traditional Ife account in a 1992 publication. And I did provide the reference.

Furthermore, Bondarenko cites Eluyemi 1990: 80 as well as Obayemi 1976: 210 for this same account where he specifically made reference to Eluyemi’s allusion to the archaeological exploration of Oke-Ora in an attempt to pinpoint the specific one of the seven hills around the Ife bowl which the traditions specifically speak of.

The bolded part of your comment here is the specific principle which answers your agitation.

In other words, the earliest account which originates locally is the closest to the untainted truth.

Until “acceptance by the lay people” = “truth”.

Until then, you haven’t made any point here. I am not discussing what have been put before lay persons here. Instead, I am discussing the actual historical reality.

Your special pleading here is especially absurd for the following reasons.

(1) The same question you’ve asked here about the written source for Punch’s documentation should (by your principle) be raised about such written source itself.

This leads to an obviously absurd and meaningless rabbit hole of infinite regress of written sources.

(2) One may ask the same meaningless question about the historicity of the following Bini rulers: Eweka 1, Ewedo, Oguola, Ewuare 1, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, and several others.

There are no written sources from their respective times which specifically identifies them and confirms their existence.

The first specifically identifiable documentation of their existence long after their respective reigns was thus from oral narration which says such & such was an Oba of Benin, son of such & such, did such & such, etc.

Would you now be consistent with your amateurish contention and reject all these personages as having nothing to do with Benin history?? No, I guess.

In fact, one may ask the same meaningless question about virtually all of Benin history recorded by the Europeans — from the Portuguese accounts downward.

Having shown the meaninglessness of your contention here; what an historian considers instead are the following:

(A) Mr Cyril Punch first collected a specific account about a certain Ekaladerhan from Benin.

(B) Chief Egharevba who came to the historical scene some fifty (50) years after Punch, also independently collected the same account about Ekaladerhan from Benin.

The conclusion here thus become apparent, and that is that:

We observe an evidence of historicity (or at least no deliberate foul play) since essentially the same account was collected independently from different Benin generations of some fifty (50) years apart.

And like you’ve rightly suggested, the foul plays would only begin in the later-day changes to the already documented account.

And this is precisely what we see with the apocryphal account of the 1970s which blatantly contradicts the received traditions of Ekalderahan.

Cc: Ideadoctor, babtoundey, Balogunodua, Obalufon sesan85, PORNeIlusHUBson

That's my Tao11, finish them, am smiling here

[s]

Ideadoctor:
if you are not okay with a Yoruba created forum, go create yours and stop been a parasite

[/s]

[s]

Ideadoctor:
sure, I will do that

[/s]

[s]

Ideadoctor:
please just make sure you wipe those boys well,I like fierce women

[/s]

[s]

Ideadoctor:
work on the Lagos account which is said by Robert Smith to be based on the first two.

Cc: Obalufon, Ideadoctor, Balogunodua, babtoundey, sesan85 Today I must confess to you Tao11, I like you,walahi,your intelligence and scholarlistical tendencies are amazing, each time I come to comment on this trend and I see your write up,I will just smile and relax, Tao11 had tackle them,without even seeing you,your write up made fall for you,lest I get too naughty,let me stop here,in as much you are still on nairaland, my own comments would not be much,because you are reliable, especially now that school is resuming, unilorin no be joke

[/s]

Balogunodua:

She already dealt with you guyz...post it again and get disgraced...

I invited you to my post yesterday but you were too scared to show face


Something tells me you're Tao11 you have same bipolar issues

Balogunodua:

Kikikiki... me wailing...I laugh in Togo your coward brothers are the ones having sleepless night about Yoruba...they kept creating threads about Yoruba and Ooni they kept claiming where does no belongs to them..from Lagos to Ondo to Ekiti to Kogi to Imo to Onitcha etc.... but guess what?? They got disgraced multiple times Benin can go fvck itself nobody cares as long as they stay in their lane.....

Just like no one gives a fvck about your wailing either .
Like I said earlier, rewrite history from now till 2moro Benin will still remain Benin

[s]

Balogunodua:

Me on Benin thread Your coward brothers keep creating threads about Yoruba to spread their lies..but guess what? they got disgraced and their ancestors were squashed in the mud like unwanted rotten oranges..

mushroom Edo State..I laugh in Congo your ancestors were disgraced over and over again and all you could come up with is Benin take over Ondo....ehehe...Benin that was overrun by biafrans in a day

[/s]

EdoDefence:


Just like no one gives a fvck about your wailing either .
Like I said earlier, rewrite history from now till 2moro Benin will still remain Benin

You have nothing say oga... Benin can remain Benin for all I care...just tell you brother's to stop claiming where does not belongs to them

[s]

Balogunodua:

You have nothing say oga... Benin can remain Benin for all I care...just tell you brother's to stop claiming where does not belongs to them

[/s]

[s]

Ideadoctor:
That's my Tao11, finish them, am smiling here

[/s]

[s]

Balogunodua:

Kikikiki... me wailing...I laugh in Togo your coward brothers are the ones having sleepless night about Yoruba...they kept creating threads about Yoruba and Ooni they kept claiming where does no belongs to them..from Lagos to Ondo to Ekiti to Kogi to Imo to Onitcha etc.... but guess what?? They got disgraced multiple times Benin can go fvck itself nobody cares as long as they stay in their lane.....

[/s]