₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
The REAL Christians never took up weapons to force anybody to convert. Matthew 26:52
Instead, they were intensely persecuted by the Roman authorities who claimed that the new Christians otherwise called “Messianists” were odd people, they didn’t mix in with the Greek culture and practice interfaith because of their stand and so were persecuted for that.
John 15:18-20, 2Corinthians 6:14-17

We have little or no record of the life's of the first Christian in fact o ly the book of acts gives a brief history of the early Christians.
Also, not every fight is carried outhe with guns. Jesus fought the leadership system of the jews. There are some many ways to engage. War is just 1 option
It's also possible that the early church was not equipped or organized enough to defend itself from rome.
Luke 14.28
to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, he might lay its foundation but not be able to finish it, and all the onlookers would start to ridicule him, 30 saying: ‘This man started to build but was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king marching out against another king in war does not first sit down and take counsel whether he is able with 10,000 troops to stand up to the one who comes against him with 20,000? 32 If, in fact, he cannot do so, then while that one is yet far away, he sends out a body of ambassadors and sues for peace.
The early Christians where few and ill equipped for a war.

achorladey:
Don't worry they have seen the post already. Only that don't expect them to accept it.

That's part of the protocol. To them you don't know the truth yet and you won't have the truth or be in the truth until you become a JWs.

JWs won't be the first to show loyalty to their church. Others were there before them even up till today

I understand, they must defend their ground. It's human nature

Tcwork:

We have little or no record of the life's of the first Christian in fact o ly the book of acts gives a brief history of the early Christians.
Also, not every fight is carried outhe with guns. Jesus fought the leadership system of the jews. There are some many ways to engage. War is just 1 option
It's also possible that the early church was not equipped or organized enough to defend itself from rome.
Luke 14.28
to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, he might lay its foundation but not be able to finish it, and all the onlookers would start to ridicule him, 30 saying: ‘This man started to build but was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king marching out against another king in war does not first sit down and take counsel whether he is able with 10,000 troops to stand up to the one who comes against him with 20,000? 32 If, in fact, he cannot do so, then while that one is yet far away, he sends out a body of ambassadors and sues for peace.
The early Christians where few and ill equipped for a war.

It’s one thing to reject Jesus’ own words, it’s another to miscontrue them. What does the illustration Jesus gave in Luke 14:28 have to do with his disciples going to war? Jesus is only stressing the importance of planning and considering the cost of being his disciple. Compare Proverbs 21:5, Matthew 16:24
It has nothing to do with Jesus’ disciples going to war because there’s enough evidence—both Biblical and secular that points to the REAL Christian group as being defenseless because they were occupied with the preaching of the good news. The Acts of the apostles is littered with the experiences of those first century Christians especially Paul. There are also secular records like the Antiquities of the Jews written by Josephus that shows that the Christian group were persecuted and did not engage in political/military affairs because of being no part of the world. John 17:14-16

Tcwork:

We get all this but what I need to understand from you is Adams perfection. Did Adam have all the knowledge and personality of God?
This had been the real discussion. You said Adam was perfect so he could not be lacking in knowledge.

Refer to this earlier post of mine. The “tree of knowledge of good and bad” is what seems to be confusing you.

DappaD:
Adam’s mental powers were fully active. In fact, his human nature and his brain was the most glorious because he was personally molded by Jehovah God. Genesis 2:7, Luke 3:38
Moreover he was made in God’s image so he could think, feel and make decisions. Genesis 1:26

Adam was not stupid if not it would mean that God was being dubious on his part by telling him the tree of knowledge of good and bad was off limits. Genesis 2:17

Jehovah needed to put an object of authority before Adam to let him know his freedom is not absolute else there would be chaos since there will be a great number of his intelligent kind who would come after him. So the tree was just symbolizing God’s authority over Adam because Jehovah should be the only person who should set standards of good and bad for all humans. compare Proverbs 3:5-7

Tcwork:
We have little or no record of the life's of the first Christian in fact o ly the book of acts gives a brief history of the early Christians.
Also, not every fight is carried outhe with guns. Jesus fought the leadership system of the jews. There are some many ways to engage. War is just 1 option
It's also possible that the early church was not equipped or organized enough to defend itself from rome.
Luke 14.28
to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, he might lay its foundation but not be able to finish it, and all the onlookers would start to ridicule him, 30 saying: ‘This man started to build but was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king marching out against another king in war does not first sit down and take counsel whether he is able with 10,000 troops to stand up to the one who comes against him with 20,000? 32 If, in fact, he cannot do so, then while that one is yet far away, he sends out a body of ambassadors and sues for peace.
The early Christians where few and ill equipped for a war.

He is talking about the ROMAN CATHOLICS who came after the time of the apostles. He is using the history of the roman Catholics and perhaps the reformers too here.

The problem comes from the fact that the same people they tagged PAGANS and GRECIANS PHILOSOPHER compile the Bible they equally use today.

achorladey:
He is talking about the ROMAN CATHOLICS who came after the time of the apostles. He is using the history of the roman Catholics and perhaps the reformers too here.

The problem comes from the fact that the same people they tagged PAGANS and GRECIANS PHILOSOPHER compile the Bible they equally use today.

That is the point. Much good came from these so called evil people

DappaD:
Refer to this earlier post of mine. The “tree of knowledge of good and bad” is what seems to be confusing you.

Now you are going round in circles are you saying Adam’s knowledge was same with God's or not.

What else do you want the bible to say before you understand.
You big point is because he was in the image of God he must have had such knowledge.
Still you agree that having the image of God did not guarantee him all of God's knowledge.
If you believe that the fruit of knowledge of good and evil meant something else, could you using the bible point to its new meaning.
If you truly believe that the tree of knowledge of good and evil meant something else and you are not justhe arguing for the sake of it, please show any verse that explains it your way. If you don't have any verse that shows your view then ask your friends to help you so we don't continue to go in circles

Tcwork:
That is the point. Much good came from these so called evil people

To them anything close to true Christianity ended after the time of the apostles meaning the WHEAT ceases to exist only the WEEDS were thriving. The WHEAT only came back with the coming of the pioneers/founders of JWs ORGANIZATION and religion.

The reason you saw in his previous post citing Matthew 13:32-40.

The interesting thing about that is, all the first three presidents[/b] of the WTBTS [b]came out from the same WEEDS and Jesus never said the WEEDS will be converted to WHEATS.

Tcwork:
Now you are going round in circles are you saying Adam’s knowledge was same with God's or not.
What else do you want the bible to say before you understand.
You big point is because he was in the image of God he must have had such knowledge.
Still you agree that having the image of God did not guarantee him all of God's knowledge.
If you believe that the fruit of knowledge of good and evil meant something else, could you using the bible point to its new meaning.
If you truly believe that the tree of knowledge of good and evil meant something else and you are not justhe arguing for the sake of it, please show any verse that explains it your way. If you don't have any verse that shows your view then ask your friends to help you so we don't continue to go in circles

I’m trying to draw a line here between Adam and Jesus Christ but it’s sad that you can’t see it. As has been said already, they were both firstBorns. One in spirit and one in flesh and both are/were perfect.
Luke 3:38, Revelation 3:14

Like Adam was, Jesus Christ is also the image of the invisible God[Colossians 1:15-16 compare Hebrews 1:3]because he reflects Jehovah’s qualities of humility, compassion, love to the highest degree[Matthew 11:29, Mark 1:40-42, Philippians 2:3-5]
But he acknowledged that all that he knew and taught stemmed from his Father and that he didn’t possess them innately. John 12:49-50

DappaD:
I’m trying to draw a line here between Adam and Jesus Christ but it’s sad that you can’t see it. As has been said already, they were both firstBorns. One in spirit and one in flesh and both are/were perfect.
Luke 3:38, Revelation 3:14

Like Adam was, Jesus Christ is also the image of the invisible God[Colossians 1:15-16 compare Hebrews 1:3]because he reflects Jehovah’s qualities of humility, compassion, love to the highest degree[Matthew 11:29, Mark 1:40-42, Philippians 2:3-5]
But he acknowledged that all that he knew and taught stemmed from his Father and that he didn’t possess them innately. John 12:49-50

Are you sure you understand the questions I asked?
These are the scriptures you referee us to...many of them don't even impact the topic in anyway
Revelations 3.14
“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa+ write: These are the things that the Amen+ says, the faithful and true+ witness,+ the beginning of the creation by God:
Luke 3.38
son of Eʹnosh,+
son of Seth,+
son of Adam,+
son of God.
Colossians 1.15-16
He is the image of the invisible God,+ the firstborn of all creation;+ 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,+ whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created
Hebrews 1.3
He is the reflection of God’s glory+ and the exact representation of his very being,+ and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,+ he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
Oga most of the verses you quoted talk about Jesus not Adam.
And none address the question in any way.
It pains me that I had to read these scriptures one by one only to find that you were not even relating to the question

DappaD:
I’m trying to draw a line here between Adam and Jesus Christ but it’s sad that you can’t see it. As has been said already, they were both firstBorns. One in spirit and one in flesh and both are/were perfect.
Luke 3:38, Revelation 3:14

Like Adam was, Jesus Christ is also the image of the invisible God[Colossians 1:15-16 compare Hebrews 1:3]because he reflects Jehovah’s qualities of humility, compassion, love to the highest degree[Matthew 11:29, Mark 1:40-42, Philippians 2:3-5]
But he acknowledged that all that he knew and taught stemmed from his Father and that he didn’t possess them innately. John 12:49-50

Are you sure you understand the questions I asked? Please how does your answer fit into this discussion. Take your time, read and answer my questions

Tcwork:

Are you sure you understand the questions I asked?
These are the scriptures you referee us to...many of them don't even impact the topic in anyway
Revelations 3.14
“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa+ write: These are the things that the Amen+ says, the faithful and true+ witness,+ the beginning of the creation by God:
Luke 3.38
son of Eʹnosh,+
son of Seth,+
son of Adam,+
son of God.
Colossians 1.15-16
He is the image of the invisible God,+ the firstborn of all creation;+ 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,+ whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created
Hebrews 1.3
He is the reflection of God’s glory+ and the exact representation of his very being,+ and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,+ he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
Oga most of the verses you quoted talk about Jesus not Adam.
And none address the question in any way.
It pains me that I had to read these scriptures one by one only to find that you were not even relating to the question

Revelation 3:14&Colossians 1:15-16 says that Jesus is Jehovah’s Firstborn and also that he is the image of God wrt to Hebrews 1:3.
Luke 3:38 calls Adam the “son of God” because he was created directly by Jehovah. Compare Genesis 2:7
Can you focus on the major points instead of always deflecting to minor details and complaining that the quoted scriptures do not match when in fact you’re the one who hasn’t taken out time to read and understand them?
Tcwork, this is social media I cannot spell out every single thing for you here. You’re going to have to keep up.

DappaD:
Revelation 3:14&Colossians 1:15-16 says that Jesus is Jehovah’s Firstborn and also that he is the image of God wrt to Hebrews 1:3.
Luke 3:38 calls Adam the “son of God” because he was created directly by Jehovah. Compare Genesis 2:7
Can you focus on the major points instead of always deflecting to minor details and complaining that the quoted scriptures do not match when in fact you’re the one who hasn’t taken out time to read and understand them?
Tcwork, this is social media I cannot spell out every single thing for you here. You’re going to have to keep up.

Acts 17.29
Therefore, since we are the children* of God,+ we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans.+
So what is your point here.
Yes this is social media you can make a clear point.
The issue was about Adam and the knowledge of good and evil but instead you have been giving me verses that talk about Jesus Christ
We are all in the image of God so what is your point sir

Tcwork:

Acts 17.29
Therefore, since we are the children* of God,+ we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans.+
So what is your point here.
Yes this is social media you can make a clear point.
The issue was about Adam and the knowledge of good and evil but instead you have been giving me verses that talk about Jesus Christ
We are all in the image of God so what is your point sir

If I should ask you what the relation is between what I’m saying and Acts 17:29, would you be able to give me a clear answer?
The words in highlight should answer your question and put a stop to this seemingly endless loop of debates. If we[including Adam] are all made in the image of God, then Adam also knew the difference between right and wrong. Come to your own conclusions from that.

Tcwork:
The simple answer to your question can be found in history.
The disciples of Christ continued to spread his words despite opposition yet they continued as good citizens. Soon the nations of the west became Christians. Today Christianity i's the world's biggest religion.
Christianity did not spread because a group disassociated themselves from society and citizenship.
Instead, it became mainstream and was an unstoppable force.
As christians we have a right to fight to make a community our society a better place.
That was what people like Martin Luther Did laying the foundation for people like you to preach without persecution in most parts of the world.
Christianity blossomed, human rights and the Rights of Man sprang forth and the world became a better place for us all because of the efforts of many great Christians.
When Jesus Christ was on Earth he was also pushing the agenda of change.
He sought to make he's Nation that's the Jewish Nation a better place he wanted to free the people from the Burdens placed on them by their religious leaders. That shows you that a Christian is an agent of change in society.
Jesus Christ was very mindful of his Jewish community. His gospel was for the jews, his people first before the rest of the world.
He even referee to a non Jewish woman seeking his help as a dog. Jesus Christ loved his people the jews. He kept Jewish customs yet he fought against corruption like trading in the temple. As christians, we fight to make our country a better place

Do you know you didn't provide answer to the question I asked you!
Which would you obey ?
The Authorities or Jesus?..
You can't give a middle stance.

This your reply shows you have so much to learn. But I'll only focus on one part.
Embarrassing history, really?
Maybe the first Christains are not so much a good historian like you. But this is their submission when the Authorities forbade their Preaching.
“We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 4:19, 20; 5:29)
Do you think they're not a good citizen?
They know when to strike the balance and they identified God as the primary ruler.


@bolded
That's not what a genuine Christains do. Jesus already told his followers not to remain neutral in the political affairs of this world(John 15:19). Christains already know that this world is not going to get better as Jesus said. (—Luke 21:10-17)
Genuine Christains knows that the political affairs of this world is under Satan control (1 John 5:19).
Under Christ rulership, he's going to bring an end to the political affairs of this world (Dan 2:44).

Rather that invest in a business that it Doom to collapse, Genuine Christains know how wise it is to pledge total loyalty to God's kingdom and be the proclaimer .
They do so unitedly following Jesus' word to have love among themselves as an identifying mark.

TcWork, you cannot slave for two master. it's either you choose the STATE or JEHOVAH GOD.
You can compromise the two either and follow the ones that suit you.

You should know now that quoting is one thing, understanding and application is another!

DappaD:
If I should ask you what the relation is between what I’m saying and Acts 17:29, would you be able to give me a clear answer?
The words in highlight should answer your question and put a stop to this seemingly endless loop of debates. If we[including Adam] are all made in the image of God, then Adam also knew the difference between right and wrong. Come to your own conclusions from that.

That's exactly my point, you compare Adam to Jesus Christ and it does not even gel.
Yes all men know right from wrong after Adam ate the fruit.
Or are you now comparing all men to Jesus Christ also?
Please go back to topic. Do your research and come up with a good reason why the fruit of knowledge of good and evil isn't what the bible said it was.
Come oh you are actually looking for a verse to show that the tree of knowledge of Good and evil was fake?? I am actually laughin right now. You wouldn't see such in the bible. You would only find it in your church manual.
Your other brother said it was a spiritual meaning, a nice was to escape from the truth and you are bringing up verses that have nothing to do with Adam to show that he was a son of God?
We are all sons of God all created by God all offspring's of God but are we perfect.
Look good back to Genesis read again then ask your church leaders some important questions.
I would be here waiting

haddeylium:
Do you know you didn't provide answer to the question I asked you!
Which would you obey ?
The Authorities or Jesus?..
You can't give a middle stance.

This your reply shows you have so much to learn. But I'll only focus on one part.
Embarrassing history, really?
Maybe the first Christains are not so much a good historian like you. But this is their submission when the Authorities forbade their Preaching.
“We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 4:19, 20; 5:29)
Do you think they're not a good citizen?
They know when to strike the balance and they identified God as the primary ruler.


@bolded
That's not what a genuine Christains do. Jesus already told his followers not to remain neutral in the political affairs of this world(John 15:19). Christains already know that this world is not going to get better as Jesus said. (—Luke 21:10-17)
Genuine Christains knows that the political affairs of this world is under Satan control (1 John 5:19).
Under Christ rulership, he's going to bring an end to the political affairs of this world (Dan 2:44).

Rather that invest in a business that it Doom to collapse, Genuine Christains know how wise it is to pledge total loyalty to God's kingdom and be the proclaimer .
They do so unitedly following Jesus' word to have love among themselves as an identifying mark.

TcWork, you cannot slave for two master. it's either you choose the STATE or JEHOVAH GOD.
You can compromise the two either and follow the ones that suit you.

You should know now that quoting is one thing, understanding and application is another!

First I answered your question go back and read. This was to your follow up question
Then I need to ask why do all of you quote a scripture that says nothing related to your points. I have noticed it with your members on this thread.
John 15.19
If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world,+ but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you
This to you is Jesus telling his follows to be neutral in politics?
Oga please let's remove religion for a while. If this where a court of law and this verse is admitted as evidence that Jesus was teaching neutrality in politics wouldn't it be laughed off?
One thing I can tell for sure is that you guys are very intelligent so stop playing on our intelligence.
Christ said be not part of the world, you attribute to politics. Why didn't you attribute it to NYSC or having a government job or living in a community. Christ was teaching us not to live by the standard of the world.
Nobody taught you to stay off politics.
And please this is a public discussion try to be honest with the scriptures you quote. You knew this had nothing to do with politics so why quote it.
Oga abeg you no try

Tcwork:

That's exactly my point, you compare Adam to Jesus Christ and it does not even gel.
Yes all men know right from wrong after Adam ate the fruit.
Or are you now comparing all men to Jesus Christ also?
Please go back to topic. Do your research and come up with a good reason why the fruit of knowledge of good and evil isn't what the bible said it was

I’m not the one comparing Adam to Jesus. Go and ask Paul why he did so.
Romans 5:17-19, 1Corinthians 15:21,22,45,47
The main thing I’ve been saying is, if Adam didn’t know the difference between good and evil, then he’s not to blame na? Since yesterday you’ve been running from this claiming that the scriptures do not match meanwhile that’s just a subtle ploy of yours to deviate from the topic.

DappaD:
I’m not the one comparing Adam to Jesus. Go and ask Paul why he did so.
Romans 5:17-19, 1Corinthians 15:21,22,45,47
The main thing I’ve been saying is, if Adam didn’t know the difference between good and evil, then he’s not to blame na? Since yesterday you’ve been running from this claiming that the scriptures do not match meanwhile that’s just a subtle ploy of yours to deviate from the topic.

Are you blaming him for your sins? What Bad did Adam do to you? Oh you wanted to remain in the garden forever? Sorry then
Adam played his role, Christ played his role... you and I have our roles to play?
So you created new meaning to a simple scripture just to blame Adam abi?

DappaD:
I’m not the one comparing Adam to Jesus. Go and ask Paul why he did so.
Romans 5:17-19, 1Corinthians 15:21,22,45,47
The main thing I’ve been saying is, if Adam didn’t know the difference between good and evil, then he’s not to blame na? Since yesterday you’ve been running from this claiming that the scriptures do not match meanwhile that’s just a subtle ploy of yours to deviate from the topic.

OK let's forget about your new Adam theory let's go back to topic, I am with you

[quote author=Tcwork post=98620886]

First I answered your question go back and read. This was to your follow up question
Then I need to ask why do all of you quote a scripture that says nothing related to your points. I have noticed it with your members on this thread.
John 15.19
If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world,+ but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you
This to you is Jesus telling his follows to be neutral in politics?
Oga please let's remove religion for a while. If this where a court of law and this verse is admitted as evidence that Jesus was teaching neutrality in politics wouldn't it be laughed off?
One thing I can tell for sure is that you guys are very intelligent so stop playing on our intelligence.
Christ said be not part of the world, you attribute to politics. Why didn't you attribute it to NYSC or having a government job or living in a community. Christ was teaching us not to live by the standard of the world.
Nobody taught you to stay off politics.
And please this is a public discussion try to be honest with the scriptures you quote. You knew this had nothing to do with politics so why quote it.
Oga abeg you no try[/sub]

I've conducted Bible study with different people overtime. I discovered that we understand things quicker and better that one another as supposed human's nature. One already know the joint with a Bible verse, some need to be spoon-fed to make a grab.
I don't know the category that you fall in .
Rather that makes that a verse is unrelated because you don't get it which I understand.
Wouldn't it be better you ask for the knowledge behind it?

[quote author=haddeylium post=98621347][/quote]Oga keep praising yourself. Please next time use a related verse.
When Christ said be not of the world, he was not talking about politics. You guys just came up with that.
When it comes to a public discussion, put your personal interpretation aside. Remember these are not the words of your church but the words of Jesus Christ. Some honesty is required here. You cannot be misinterpreting the scriptures and boasting of your supirior intelligence here. Haba.. e no nice na.

[quote author=haddeylium post=98621347][/quote]I am not too interested in what you say about me personally because I am not here to please you. I can only demand honesty from you. Be honest with the scriptures. And yes, like you said you guys are smart but please don't use your smartness to confuse others. Quote the verses and relate to them. I guess that was the interpretation they taught you in church but this isn't your church. This is Nairaland

Tcwork:
Are you blaming him for your sins? What Bad did Adam do to you? Oh you wanted to remain in the garden forever? Sorry then
Adam played his role, Christ played his role... you and I have our roles to play?
So you created new meaning to a simple scripture just to blame Adam abi?

It seems you’re too far gone to understand some really basic and mundane things. It’s no one’s fault if assimilation is a problem for you so please take full responsibility and don’t push that problem to others. All you need is to focus on one thing at a time.
Take the stress and time now and go through all those Scriptures before you say the scriptures don’t relate. Then you’ll see the very “bad” thing Adam did to all of us who are his descendants.

DappaD:
It seems you’re too far gone to understand some really basic and mundane things. It’s no one’s fault if assimilation is a problem for you so please take full responsibility and don’t push that problem to others. All you need is to focus on one thing at a time.
Take the stress and time now and go through all those Scriptures before you say the scriptures don’t relate. Then you’ll see the very “bad” thing Adam did to all of us who are his descendants.

I don't know what to tell you. But I don't see why I would accept your funny interpretation of scripture. It's not like you wrote the bible. I understand, you have to defend your church's position but you don't have to do so by twisting passage of scripture.
I am noticing a pattern among your people.
And when one doesn't accept your twisted translation's you guys get aggressive.
One of you even boasted the the bible belongs to JW hence I must accept his translation.
I admire the JW for some reason's but like most churches out there, you don't have it all. So stop giving the bible interpretation's to suit your teaches. That is one thing that I don't do and I don't tolerate.

DappaD:
It seems you’re too far gone to understand some really basic and mundane things. It’s no one’s fault if assimilation is a problem for you so please take full responsibility and don’t push that problem to others. All you need is to focus on one thing at a time.
Take the stress and time now and go through all those Scriptures before you say the scriptures don’t relate. Then you’ll see the very “bad” thing Adam did to all of us who are his descendants.

It doesn't even take skill, anybody can twist the bible to fit his teachings. The bible calls it, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.
By the way, you blame Adam.. he without sin should cast the first stone. Have you never fallen under Satan's temptations?
But you expected Adam to be better than you? Someone that was yet to have the knowledge of good and evil?

Tcwork:
It doesn't even take skill, anybody can twist the bible to fit his teachings. The bible calls it, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.
By the way, you blame Adam.. he without sin should cast the first stone. Have you never fallen under Satan's temptations?
But you expected Adam to be better than you? Someone that was yet to have the knowledge of good and evil?

When the message they want to pass across hits a wall. The way to go is, attack the personality or the abilities of such personality.

achorladey:
When the message they want to pass across hits a wall. The way to go is, attack the personality or the abilities of such personality.

We it's a pity.. clearly some people don't believe in that others have a voice.
It's crazy to find people who think that their opinions must be accepted no questions asked.

Perfection is not like that. When Jesus said "you must be Holy just as my heavenly father is Holy" some Bible translations (including the NWT) rendered the word HOLY as PERFECT, but the text rendered Holy or Perfect there doesn't mean the creature can't err in his thinking but having pure motives the same way God always have. Selfishness will make this impossible in the case of any creature because the one and only person who have the final say is JEHOVAH who knows the purpose for which he created all things.
So we can only learn how to be pure at heart (holy) like JEHOVAH, we can never know how to set standards for other humans around us, only JEHOVAH can do that!
Eve was the last creature so that means the order not to eat from the forbidden fruit was passed to her, she didn't get that order directly from God. That's why God's word said the perfect woman was deceived unlike Adam who knew the person that created him and got first hand order directly from his heavenly father.

Tcwork:
Oga I think I finally understand your view. Let me are to be sure. Are you saying that Adam was created in God's image so just as God in perfect, Adam was perfect?
That Adam was just as complete as God, having all knowledge like God, have a of God's attributes, emotions (the same mind as God) and power. Hence there was no way he could not have the knowledge of Good and evil?
Is this what you have been trying to say?
Also let me ask, was eve also a complete and perfect being Like God? Was she also in God's image.

MaxInDHouse:
Perfection is not like that. When Jesus said "you must be Holy just as my heavenly father is Holy" some Bible translations (including the NWT) rendered the word HOLY as PERFECT, but the text rendered Holy or Perfect there doesn't mean the creature can't err in his thinking but having pure motives the same way God always have. Selfishness will make this impossible in the case of any creature because the one and only person who have the final say is JEHOVAH who knows the purpose for which he created all things.
So we can only learn how to be pure at heart (holy) like JEHOVAH, we can never know how to set standards for other humans around us, only JEHOVAH can do that!
Eve was the last creature so that means the order not to eat from the forbidden fruit was passed to her, she didn't get that order directly from God. That's why God's word said the perfect woman was deceived unlike Adam who knew the person that created him and got first hand order directly from his heavenly father.

Yea I Agee with about all you said. BUT even when you replace perfect with holy, you basically are saying the same thing.
Be holy just like our father in heaven.
Jesus Christ is telling us that our father in heaven is the standard of holiness for us.
That's as good as telling us to be perfect like our father in heaven is perfect.
Still I agree with your post here

That's why there's no room for various opinions on standard, we all must find out God's standard and uphold it. That's the only means of becoming perfect like the epitome of perfection JEHOVAH!
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are now saying they have discovered that perfect standard, but you are saying they shouldn't claim that because God never mentioned any group name so all groups are working towards God's standard, whereas JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are presenting evidence that all other religions are following human's mind.

Let me tell you today that people are running to America today not because there is no fraudsters, thieves, armed robbers, witches and so many other things from which our people are running away there, but because the policy there makes it possible for everyone to participate in building America. So each American child will wake up and say "God bless America" while other countries amassing nuclear weapons are planning to bring America down.
Spiritually you and i can see that there is no religion on this planet earth today where adherents will speak confidently about how perfect and well organized their religion is, rather all these Churchgoers (including you) are saying unpleasant things about their Church or refrain from mentioning their Church at all.
So what you're trying to say now is Jehovah's Witnesses should stop talking about their Church like the American citizens God has blessed our Organization!

Tcwork:
Yea I Agee with about all you said. BUT even when you replace perfect with holy, you basically are saying the same thing.
Be holy just like our father in heaven.
Jesus Christ is telling us that our father in heaven is the standard of holiness for us.
That's as good as telling us to be perfect like our father in heaven is perfect.
Still I agree with your post here

MaxInDHouse:
That's why there's no room for various opinions on standard, we all must find out God's standard and uphold it. That's the only means of becoming perfect like the epitome of perfection JEHOVAH!
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are now saying they have discovered that perfect standard, but you are saying they shouldn't claim that because God never mentioned any group name so all groups are working towards God's standard, whereas JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are presenting evidence that all other religions are following human's mind.

Let me tell you today that people are running to America today not because there is no fraudsters, thieves, armed robbers, witches and so many other things from which our people are running away there, but because the policy there makes it possible for everyone to participate in building America. So each American child will wake up and say "God bless America" while other countries amassing nuclear weapons are planning to bring America down.
Spiritually you and i can see that there is no religion on this planet earth today where adherents will speak confidently about how perfect and well organized their religion is, rather all these Churchgoers (including you) are saying unpleasant things about their Church or refrain from mentioning their Church at all.
So what you're trying to say now is Jehovah's Witnesses should stop talking about their Church like the American citizens God has blessed our Organization!

Boss
I understand how you feel. It's easy for us to thing our organization is the best.
It's true your organization claim to be the best but they are not the only ones that make such claims. More that 10 Christian Organization's claim to be the only true church and each with its own evidence.
Some even have much stronger evidence than you from my interactions with you all.
I don't think I have been too fair on you guys on this thread. Maybe you guys should start a thread to teach people about your organization on Nairaland.
So the rest of us can ask questions and evaluate.
But so far the only unique doctrine you guys seem to have is the no war/neutrality policy which you back with Matt 26.52... to me that isn't strong enough.
It's just like a church teaching that people should go barefooted because God told Moses to take off his shoes.
One verse, directed to one person that seems to be what your biggest doctrine is hinged against.
To me that doesn't qualify you to be the only true church.
The seven days adventist also believe the same and the hinge their doctrine on sabbath day observance. That's even a stronger point. At least it's a commandment For God to the entire world that began with God himself observing it. Still I don't think the adventist havery all truths.
I agreed you guys are unique still there are so many unique Christian organizations.
We have the Catholicsame who also claim to be the only true church.
The latter day saints believe that God the church.
The church of Christ believe they are the only church recognized by God.
And a good number of other churches out there.