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Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 1:33pm On Jan 12
Before we proceed, do you now agree that JEHOVAH never left his place to come down in person to rescued Israelites from slavery in Egypt? smiley


Tcwork:

I am not sure I understand some of your sentences here.
But then let me ask a few questions to be sure
1 Who created the world
2. Who is the Lord of the Sabbath
3. Who is the Savior
4. Who shall judge the world
A pattern is clear here, everything attributed to Jehovah in the old testament is attributed to Jesus Christ in the new testament.
The new and old testament are not leading men to different people.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 1:56pm On Jan 12
Sometimes, it's easy to forget that Chist is the creator, the Savior and would be the judge and the purpose of the scriptures, both the old and new testament is to witness him and lead men unto him.
We have but one Savior. The old testament is not leading us to a different God from Jesus Christ.
Remember the name Jesus Christ was never mentioned in the old testament despite the fact that he was the main character of the book.
This was because he was known by the name Jehovah.
He took up Jesus as his earthly name. Or don't you think that he had a name before coming to earth?
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 2:01pm On Jan 12
MaxInDHouse:
Before we proceed, do you now agree that JEHOVAH never left his place to come down in person to rescued Israelites from slavery in Egypt? smiley


I thought we both read that the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; and in 1Corinthians 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”

Maybe if you can explain how This isn't God physically leading Israel then I would understand
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:52pm On Jan 12
The Bible says it was an angel not JEHOVAH himself, unless we agree that JEHOVAH is an angel! undecided
Exodus 14:19


Tcwork:

I thought we both read that the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; and in 1Corinthians 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”

Maybe if you can explain how This isn't God physically leading Israel then I would understand

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 3:41pm On Jan 12
MaxInDHouse:
The Bible says it was an angel not JEHOVAH himself, unless we agree that JEHOVAH is an angel! undecided
Exodus 14:19


Then the angel of the true God+ who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to their rear, and the pillar of cloud that was in front of them moved to the rear and stood behind

This does not in anyhow proof that the Lord was not there. This verse does not indicate that God was not there with them neither does it go against 1 corinthians 10.1-4
I never doubted that an angel of the Lord was present our argument was about the Lords very presence
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:49pm On Jan 12
Well God's presence is represented by the angel, that's the point Sir! smiley


Tcwork:

Then the angel of the true God+ who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to their rear, and the pillar of cloud that was in front of them moved to the rear and stood behind

This does not in anyhow proof that the Lord was not there. This verse does not indicate that God was not there with them neither does it go against 1 corinthians 10.1-4
I never doubted that an angel of the Lord was present our argument was about the Lords very presence
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 3:59pm On Jan 12
MaxInDHouse:
Well God's presence is represented by the angel, that's the point Sir! smiley



Boss
Exodus 13.21-22 clearly states God went before them now you are saying it was not God but an angel just because another verse indicates an angel was present.
I think we should stick to what was said rather than add personal dimensions to the story
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:01pm On Jan 12
Now do I believe that God uses representatives?
The answer is yes and each time he does it is clearly shown.
But I have stated enough trends where Jesus Christ was fulfilling prophecies ascribed to Jehovah in the old testament.
And where he took up titles ascribed to Jehovah in the old testament.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 4:03pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:
Now do I believe that God uses representatives?
The answer is yes and each time he does it is clearly shown.

It seems I’m late to the discussion. Are you saying that in Jesus’ case, the above claim wasn't CLEARLY shown? If so, what does John 16:27 have to say on the matter? Because from all indications, the real meaning of the last part of that verse is that he came as his Father's representative.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:08pm On Jan 12
[quote author=DappaD post=97986606]

It seems I’m late to the discussion. Are you saying that in Jesus’ case, the above claim wasn't CLEARLY shown? If so, what does John 16:27 have to say on the matter? Because from all indications, the real meaning of the last part of that verse is that he came as his Father's

John 16.27 (KJV)
27for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God
This is an excellent scripture that tells us where Christ came from but I would love you to throw more light so we can understand you point sir
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 4:12pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:
Jehovah created the world
Isaiah 45.11-12
11 This is what Jehovah says, the Holy One of Israel,+ the One who formed him:
“Would you question me about the things coming
And command me about my sons+ and the works of my hands?
12 I made the earth+ and created man on it.In the new testament we learn that Jesus Christ created the world
John 1.1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence
Colossians 1.15-17
He is the image of the invisible God,+ the firstborn of all creation;+ 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,+ whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things,+ and by means of him all other things were made to exist
Isaiah and the new testament were talking about the same person, the Creator, Jesus Christ

Are you being serious right now? If you are, was King Nebuchadnezzar correct when he said:

Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?” Daniel 4:30

Please was it the king of Babylon that built the whole empire by himself or did he have hired slaves and workers to do that?
The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ was indeed the firstborn of God's creation and he was alongside God during creation as a “master worker” Proverbs 8:30 see also Genesis 1:26

But if we’re to attribute Creatorship to anybody, it goes to Jehovah alone. Nehemiah 9:6

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:15pm On Jan 12
Now for those just joining the thread, let me summarize my point.
The purpose of the new testament was to lead men to Christ.
The purpose of the old testament was to lead men to Jehovah.
Now remember, no man comes to God except through Christ.
Hence the both the old and new testament where all about the same person, Christ or Jehovah
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:18pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


Are you being serious right now? If you are, was King Nebuchadnezzar correct when he said:

Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?” Daniel 4:30

Please was it the king of Babylon that built the whole empire by himself or did he have hired slaves and workers to do that?
The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ was indeed the firstborn of God's creation and he was alongside God during creation as a “master worker” Proverbs 8:30 see also Genesis 1:26

But if we’re to attribute Creatorship to anybody, it goes to Jehovah alone. Nehemiah 9:6
Now we are saying different things all together. It was the bible that attributeday creator to Jesus Christ not me. And my point is Jesus Christ is that Jehovah the creator.
And please sir don't be taking it personal. You don't need to ask if I am serious just because you don't agree with me. I
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 4:20pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:
John 16.27 (KJV)
27for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God
This is an excellent scripture that tells us where Christ came from but I would love you to throw more light so we can understand you point sir

Luke 8:49 KJV would help solve the riddle.

“While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.”

Should we all agree that the one who came as a representative from the ruler is also the ruler himself?
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 4:22pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:

Now we are saying different things all together. It was the bible that attributeday creator to Jesus Christ not me. And my point is Jesus Christ is that Jehovah the creator.
And please sir don't be taking it personal. You don't need to ask if I am serious just because you don't agree with me. I

I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:25pm On Jan 12
I think we need to use illustration to make this clearer!

I am a soldier, whatever i do with the uniform on its the entire army that will be held responsible not just me. WHY? Because i was given that uniform to represent the Nigerian Army everywhere i go!

Now do you still remember the End Sarz issue?

Buhari's name was all over the place whereas Buhari is not the one carrying guns o, because he is the commander in chief of all the Arm forces!

So where that angel is standing, it's believed that JEHOVAH is the one standing there, note that it was God's angel that's displaying himself in the thornbush {Exodus 3:2} but whose voice did Moses heard? Exodus 3:4 smiley


Tcwork:

Boss
Exodus 13.21-22 clearly states God went before them now you are saying it was not God but an angel just because another verse indicates an angel was present.
I think we should stick to what was said rather than add personal dimensions to the story

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:29pm On Jan 12
I guess the King James Version of the bible gives the best explanation to Exodus 6.3
Exodus 6.3 (KJV)
and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
This very easily clears it all up
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:34pm On Jan 12
MaxInDHouse:
I think we need to use illustration to make this clearer!

I am a soldier, whatever i do with the uniform on its the entire army that will be held responsible not just me. WHY? Because i was given that uniform to represent the Nigerian Army everywhere i go!

Now do you still remember the End Sarz issue?

Buhari's name was all over the place whereas Buhari is not the one carrying guns o, because he is the commander in chief of all the Arm forces!

So where that angel is standing, it's believed that JEHOVAH is the one standing there, note that it was God's angel that's displaying himself in the thornbush {Exodus 3:2} but whose voice did Moses heard? Exodus 3:4 smiley


Brilliant illustration but still a personal believe not necessarily expressed in the bible
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:37pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .
Its different because in the case of Christ, he was the only one that paid for our sins. At that moment, even the Father abandoned him.
He was also the one that created all things according to your bible.
He was not just a part of a team. He was the One
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 4:42pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .
colossians 1.16 revelations 4.11
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 5:22pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:

Its different because in the case of Christ, he was the only one that paid for our sins. At that moment, even the Father abandoned him.
He was also the one that created all things according to your bible.
He was not just a part of a team. He was the One

Tcwork:

colossians 1.16 revelations 4.11

Tcwork, if you’re feeling unwell and your distant uncle in his 80’s perhaps, sent his son to give you food & medicinal supplies, who would you owe your gratitude to? Surely you would appreciate the one your uncle used as a messenger but your indebtedness would be to your uncle alone .

That’s exactly the same case with John 3:16
Due to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, he sent his Son to give his life as a ransom in exchange for ours so that we might be set free from slavery to sin and death in order for we to have everlasting life. Matthew 20:28, Romans 3:24
Surely, we appreciate what Jesus did as the “corresponding ransom”(1Timothy 2:6) but our wholehearted devotion, worship and gratitude MUST go to the One who initiated it in the first place—Jehovah God. Exodus 34:14, Ephesians 5:20

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:56pm On Jan 12
TRINITY at WORK so there's no need disturbing him!
He's expressing his own PERSONAL opinion on Trinity therefore it's better to allow him do his thing! smiley


DappaD:

Tcwork, if you’re feeling unwell and your distant uncle in his 80’s perhaps, sent his son to give you food & medicinal supplies, who would you owe your gratitude to? Surely you would appreciate the one your uncle used as a messenger but your indebtedness would be to your uncle alone .
That’s exactly the same case with John 3:16
Due to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, he sent his Son to give his life as a ransom in exchange for ours so that we might be set free from slavery to sin and death in order for we to have everlasting life. Matthew 20:28, Romans 3:24
Surely, we appreciate what Jesus did as the “corresponding ransom”(1Timothy 2:6) but our wholehearted devotion, worship and gratitude MUST go to the One who initiated it in the first place—Jehovah God. Exodus 34:14, Ephesians 5:20
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 6:13pm On Jan 12
DappaD:




Tcwork, if you’re feeling unwell and your distant uncle in his 80’s perhaps, sent his son to give you food & medicinal supplies, who would you owe your gratitude to? Surely you would appreciate the one your uncle used as a messenger but your indebtedness would be to your uncle alone .

That’s exactly the same case with John 3:16
Due to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, he sent his Son to give his life as a ransom in exchange for ours so that we might be set free from slavery to sin and death in order for we to have everlasting life. Matthew 20:28, Romans 3:24
Surely, we appreciate what Jesus did as the “corresponding ransom”(1Timothy 2:6) but our wholehearted devotion, worship and gratitude MUST go to the One who initiated it in the first place—Jehovah God. Exodus 34:14, Ephesians 5:20
You obviously don't get the point. The bible especially the new testament gave gratitude and attributed creation to Christ.
I am not the one giving such position to Christ. It was the bible that gave him the recognition as creator and Saviour.
It was he that felt the pains for your sins
If you are feeling unwell and you uncle tells his son who is a doctor to treat you and your doctor cousin treats you at his own cost, who would you attribute the treatment to?
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 6:18pm On Jan 12
MaxInDHouse:
TRINITY at WORK so there's no need disturbing him!
He's expressing his own PERSONAL opinion on Trinity therefore it's better to allow him do his thing! smiley



Trinity is another topic for another day. Today we are discovering that Jesus Christ is Jehovah.
Next time we could look into Trinity.

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:33pm On Jan 12
Continue your message, your fellow brethren are following. Thanks for your time Sir! cheesy



Tcwork:

Trinity is another topic for another day. Today we are discovering that Jesus Christ is Jehovah.
Next time we could look into Trinity.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 6:42pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:

You obviously don't get the point. The bible especially the new testament gave gratitude and attributed creation to Christ.
I am not the one giving such position to Christ. It was the bible that gave him the recognition as creator and Saviour.
It was he that felt the pains for your sins
If you are feeling unwell and you uncle tells his son who is a doctor to treat you and your doctor cousin treats you at his own cost, who would you attribute the treatment to?

Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30

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Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 7:03pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30
Daniel 4.30 The king was saying: “Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty.
In this verse, we learn that the king built the city right? Now this is the very same way John tells us that Jesus Christ is creator
John 1.1-4
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.
If you believe Daniel 4.30 then you should also believe John1.1-4
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 7:05pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:

Daniel 4.30 The king was saying: “Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty.
In this verse, we learn that the king built the city right? Now this is the very same way John tells us that Jesus Christ is creator
John 1.1-4
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2
This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, + and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.
If you believe Daniel 4.30 then you should also believe John1.1-4


Compare the highlighted to 1Corinthians 8:6 PLEASE.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 7:08pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30
Proverbs 8.30 says no such thing in my own bible and as for Genesis 1.26 again you are speculating. Your bible did not teach you that it was Jesus Christ being referred to
How you came about that is a total mystery
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by DappaD: 7:10pm On Jan 12
Tcwork:

Proverbs 8.30 says no such thing in my own bible and as for Genesis 1.26 again you are speculating. Your bible did not teach you that it was Jesus Christ being referred to
How you came about that is a total mystery

Drop your KJV and make use of other sound translations already.
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 7:11pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


Compare the highlighted to 1Corinthians 8:6 PLEASE.
1 Corinthians 8.6 6 There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name was John. How does it compare
Re: Is Jesus Christ Jehovah? by Tcwork: 7:12pm On Jan 12
DappaD:


Drop your KJV and make use of other sound translations already.
That's so unfair.. I have made reference to 3 different bible versions. I did not write any neither did you. But just for asking which version would you prefer I use. Let's use your own version from now on?

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