shadeyinka:
It is a free world to believe whatever you will.
The lie was this!
Gen 3:4:
"And the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die:"

budaatum:

Really? Adam and Eve live 800 or so years after being told they will "surely die" and your own understanding is the serpent lied, and to justify your belief you change the definition of death to "another kind of death" to make the lie the truth?

I guess the majority believe as you do, but when or if you decide to open your eyes to the truth and accept what you see and can read with your own eyes please hola at me because I would be very interested indeed to learn how you blinded yourself.

Until then, please know that I am not able to believe a word you say because I have no faith in your ability to see, or read.

MrPresident1:
buda for eartum aka budaatum, has the serpent employed you as his advocate ni? Why are you trying to rigmarole the serpent out of his guilt?

budaatum:


Shadeyinka, look. One of your supporter has arrived expecting buda to converse with a person who can not tell black from white or good from evil.

If only he was brave enough to reach out and pluck the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, we might ask him to eat of the Tree of Life too and live, but I'm certain he is afraid of the Cherubims with their flaming sword which turn every way to keep him away.

Now, if only he knew Christ.

budaatum:

Really? Adam and Eve live 800 or so years after being told they will "surely die" and your own understanding is the serpent lied, and to justify your belief you change the definition of death to "another kind of death" to make the lie the truth?

I guess the majority believe as you do, but when or if you decide to open your eyes to the truth and accept what you see and can read with your own eyes please hola at me because I would be very interested indeed to learn how you blinded yourself.

Until then, please know that I am not able to believe a word you say because I have no faith in your ability to see, or read.

budaatum:


Shadeyinka, look. One of your supporter has arrived expecting buda to converse with a person who can not tell black from white or good from evil.

If only he was brave enough to reach out and pluck the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, we might ask him to eat of the Tree of Life too and live, but I'm certain he is afraid of the Cherubims with their flaming sword which turn every way to keep him away.

Now, if only he knew Christ.

shadeyinka:

But you made yourself the devil's advocate.

What was the advantage of eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve?

shadeyinka:
It is contradictory of the scriptures to ask people to eat of the fruit that produces Death! The overall plan of the scriptures is REDEMPTION, your theory fail to account for that!

MrPresident1:
buda for eartum aka budaatum, You have the effrontery to challenge me frontally yayayayaya, I shake my head vigorously for you, This is surely counting against you in a very bad way I assure you.

budaatum:
I agree Max, "you need wisdom to discern what happened is written in the Bible", but I guess some people need to lie to themselves so they can continue to believe what they want to believe but they can't or should not expect everyone to believe their lies.

We read in the Holy Book of Truths that when Adam had lived one hundred thirty (130) years, which was after he was supposedly meant to have died in the Garden of Eden, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty (930) years; and he died". [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+5%3A3-5&version=KJV]Gen 5:3&5[/url]

So effectively, at least 800 years after eating the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil which was supposed to kill him if he ate, Adam finally died. Isn't it sort of odd for you to claim the eating of the fruit at least 800 years ago killed him? I mean, does that not seem like a very ineffective poison to you or that at least the person who forbade them eating the fruit lied to Adam for some reason?

Instead we read that Adam's eyes opened and he saw that he was naked. And he and his wife stopped being slaves and got their own farm instead of working for the owner of the Garden of Eden whom some think is their God!

If we teach this to the Adams and Eves in the North of Nigeria would alimanjeri not be eliminated through education and be freed from the slavery they are kept under?

Is it not the truth that the entire teachings of Christ is "Eat fully of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil so thy days may be as long as Adam's?

In fact, can it not be said that for Christians at least, the closest we have to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is the Word in the Holy Bible, which we are advised to imbibe daily so that we may acquire understanding and live?

Yeah, I know it's not what they teach you but I know some are capable of wisely discerning. So, did the so called serpent lie?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12801994_20201207132706752_jpeg_jpeg3b88d4034df2f571d8553ffd31bdb18c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOFu6b3w6c0

budaatum:

Their eyes opened. They acquired Wisdom. They discovered they will not surely die. Is that not good enough?


Really? Is Scripture your God now that it must have plans for you?

Hear, O Shadeyinka, the Word of God according to Scripture.

Exodus 20

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Tell me please where it says bow down and obey Scripture.

shadeyinka:
I do not discard the phrase "good and evil".

shadeyinka:
I only challenge why it wasn't named "the tree of good and evil" rather, it was named "the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil". To me, knowledge then becomes the keyword!

shadeyinka:
Why is it costly or difficult to do good on earth?

shadeyinka:
Why is it more convenient to do evil than good?

shadeyinka:
Why is it that evil seem to win on the earth?

shadeyinka:
If Adam and Eve eat of "the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil", how come EVIL multiplied so readily over the earth?

shadeyinka:
Adam and Eve prior their fall certainly had knowledge of only Good. Eating of the fruit brought them knowledge of evil (in addition to their prior knowledge). Why then would the tree that brought them evil be known as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

shadeyinka:
I am tempted to recognise that the scriptures describe three kinds of deaths
Physical Death
Spiritual Death
Second Death.

shadeyinka:
What kind of death was experienced by Adam and Eve on that day they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

budaatum:
I do think you get this from the bullpiss.

budaatum:
It must be very difficult for you to accept that on eating the fruit their eyes did open and they surely did not die until 800 or so years later so you resort to what I call wuruwuru to the answer in order to convince yourself to go on believing what you have been ordered to believe.

budaatum:
You will forgive buda please. I am the wrong person to have this conversation with. I will however suggest you read the thread from the beginning. You will find we evolved past this point on page one, and that buda evolved a long time ago.

BassReeves:
I am pleased to know that you do not discard the phrase "good and evil" and quite rightly, you dare, not even try to discard it. It would be like trying to discard 'ladies and gentlemen' from '[I]Hello, ladies and gentlemen[/i]' or discard 'hook, line and sinker' from 'caught you, hook, line and sinker'

Knowledge, in this context, meaning, have a personal experience, is one half of the keyword, while 'good and evil' in this context, meaning, the range of good and evil, mixed together, is the second half of the keyword.

Naming the tree ordinarily as the 'the tree of good and evil' doesn't transmit the information, that the tree has the means from how one would and could have a personal experience of the range of good and evil, mixed together, but does, when as correctly named, it is called the 'The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil'

What personal experience are we going to have? It is the knowledge of Good and Evil from eating off the tree.

BassReeves:

Do you, as a person, find it difficult to do good on earth?

Do you, as a person, find it more convenient to do evil than good on earth?

Seem is the correct word to use, because though it gives the impression it wins, it in fact is a hollow victory

BassReeves:

The name of the tree, is a dead giveaway, of the truth about the tree if eaten off would let unleash, let loose, spray and spread out

They had knowledge of only good alright, but nothing like evil, to compare with good. The tree is named the 'the tree of good and evil' because the tree provides the freedom to personally have the experience of the ranges of good and evil

In the first order, every human being born of a woman except for Jesus, is born spiritually dead and many moments later to then die a physical death

We all die the physical death, whether believer or not a believer. Everyone needs to die and die to self, so to be, spiritually born again, if you refuse, decline or don't die to become spiritually born again, then the second death is what is to look forward experience.

On that day in Eden, the moment Adam and Eve ate of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they immediately spiritually died, they in other words, their link or direct connection to the presence of the Godhead was instantaneously severed. As earlier advanced, though not explicitly called the Tree of death, that is exactly what the the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, doubled up as.

BassReeves:

I dont give a toss about your evolution, yet I insist that the understanding you need to get, is that, what you've learnt and ascribed to mean 'surely die' actually means, you will begin the process of dying. If you dont believe so, then, paste here the original Hebrew text that 'surely die' is translated from so we put it under the microscope and subject it to peer examination to find out what information the remark genuinely is passing on.

shadeyinka:
Whe God is removed as the moral standard of Good and Evil, man is prone to do things the way he feels right in his eyes.

Judg 17:6:
"In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes."

shadeyinka:
After the eating the of the fruit of the tree of death, God ceased to be the source of morality for man, and everyman became the source of his own standard.

shadeyinka:
A colosios wreckage of who man was meant to be was the result.

shadeyinka:
Christ in me makes doing good not too difficult but many times, it is COSTLY!

shadeyinka:
We don't have to consciously resist doing good, but we have to consciously resist evil.
Evil usually

shadeyinka:
I'm perfectly in sync with you on this!

budaatum:
"The understanding I need to get", BassReeves?

As in, as opposed to using my own eyes to read the text myself and my mind to understand what I read, I, buda must get an understanding that you give to me?

budaatum:
Why please?

budaatum:
And why too must I provide "the original Hebrew text that 'surely die' is translated" from?

budaatum:
Are you of the opinion that the translators of the King James Version do not know how to translate what they translated?

budaatum:
You will forgive buda, but I can not let you be the one who tells buda what buda needs to get when buda has eyes of her own and a mind to understand what buda can clearly see and read herself.

And stop being lazy! buda is not required to provide the evidence that you need to prove your point. You "paste here the original Hebrew text that 'surely die' is translated from so we put it under the microscope and subject it to peer examination to find out what information the remark genuinely is passing on", if that is what you need to prove your point.

budaatum:
Meanwhile, below is the English version. The one with the "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" that we have been discussing all along that to you means, "you will begin the process of dying".

Genesis 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

BassReeves:
Did you see above and read how from the preface of RSV, the translators of the King James Version that you are besotted with and whose Bible, you hold as the most standard of all Bible versions, are lambasted by the Revised Standard Version? I am sure you even don't know that translators of the King James Version, actually had it printed solely to compete with the Protestant Geneva Bible..

budaatum:
You assume a lot. You claim buda holds a book in high esteem after buda repeatedly ridicules those who think a book is the God that they should believe and bow down to, and you think buda who studied the origin of the Torah all the way out of Egypt does not know the history of English translations of the Bible. Easy errors I guess, so I'll overlook it

budaatum:
What amuses me is how you seem to be saying I should acquire knowledge but with the same breathe claim eating the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil kills as if we are talking about the fruit of the tree of ignorance.

budaatum:
Do know that I am very aware that you do not fear knowledge or you would not be mentioning the immense knowledge you have exhibited here, which you can only know if you have sought knowledge, but if you do not want to become like God, that is very much okay, but "Woe" to you, said Christ for not letting others know that "Ye are gods" as is written in the law, for that is the only reason you would want to keep others ignorant and you tell them what they must believe.

budaatum:
When Adam and Eve ate the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us"

budaatum:
Is God dead that you then claim Adam and Eve too died "like us", or do you want to scream Hebrew and tell me "like us" means something like different different?

budaatum:
Please know that they told Christ what he too must believe, even wondering who taught this ordinary carpenter's son to read, and crucifying him, yet here we are today, Christ is risen, He is risen indeed. Amen.

BassReeves:

You see how daft you are making yourself look, all from quoting Genesis 3:22 in halves. If you had quoted it completely, you wouldn't be asking this laughable question.

budaatum:
You are amusing. I'll indulge you.

budaatum:
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken."

I repeat, did Adam and Eve become like a dead God but know good and evil then get banished from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken so he may not reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever?

BassReeves:

Let me give you a brief hermeneutic of Genesis 3:22. Eating of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that also doubles up as the tree of death,....

budaatum:
Really now? A tree of knowledge of good and evil that is good for getting wisdom and that makes one "become like us", kills 800 or so years after one eats it?

budaatum:
You are not giving hermeneutics, Reeves. You are telling me what you have been made to believe because you are afraid to accept what you clearly see with your own eyes and you are asking me to accept what you look at with your eyes shut. That is why you cannot see it as so pleasing to be eaten if one wishes to live eight hundred years before dying. Many of us will eat of it to live just one of those 8 centuries!

budaatum:
I hope you can hear the sadness in my laughter and the hope I have for you and the gratitude too for tasking my mind so. You will be blessed a thousand fold more than you bless me. Amen.

BassReeves:
E shock you that the tree of knowledge of good and evil doubled up as the Tree of Death. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was not for getting wisdom, .....

BassReeves:
Sin, apart from being causing the separation of man from God, actually is about missing a mark, a spot, a position or to shoot off mark

BassReeves:

Genesis 3:22
'And the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit),
knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil;
and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well,
and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever'
Or
'Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.
And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever'

The eating of the fruit of the Tree of Death, shunted God to cease be the source of morality for man, and beginning with Adam and Eve, every human being became the source of their own standard and captaining their own ships

BassReeves:

It wasn't as if God didn't know Adam and Eve, would eat of the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil.

The clue and alarm bell ringing about man not really being good, is found in Genesis creation account, where nowhere in it, is the creation of man, separately accorded any of the famous 'it was good' or 'it was very good' short and striking memorable phrases. You see, the idea of testing man in Eden wasn't for man, to show their weakness, but was the opportunity, for man to discover their strength, unfortunately man woefully failed this test and so we have it that behind every great misfortune, lies a great crime of disobedience.

BassReeves:

What has you doing good many times be costly for you? Do you have to go through a gruesome beating of your life, be falsely accused, put before a kangaroo hearing and then unjustly be sentenced to death?

BassReeves:

Every one acts, types comments on in here and behaves in sync with the nature they are

Great minds think alike and make conversations like this we are having here be much more interesting

budaatum:
Really now? So, despite "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it", you claim otherwise and then convince yourself that I am shocked, lol!

budaatum:
Of course I am shocked, though I should not be. If you can claim that "on the day that you eat you shall surely die" means that day shall come 800 years later, why should I be shocked that you would claim a Tree of Knowledge is the Tree of Death? Have you not provided sufficient evidence for me to think if you say "black" I should expect white?

budaatum:
Woe, Reeves! Woe!

shadeyinka:
True!

Perfectly said!

You are correct in that God must have known that Adam and Eve would eat of the the tree of death.
This Knowledge made God prepared the sacrifice of the Lamb even before creation of anything.
Rev 13:8:
"And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

It seemed that Angels had their tree of the knowledge of good and evil of which Lucifer partook of it with a third of the angels of God, a declaration of independence of determination right, wrong and from God. In the garden, man was also supposed to take his pitch with God or against him. Don't take me up on this, it's just a speculation with no scriptural support.

shadeyinka:
However, for man, there was a plan of redemption who is the seed of the woman. Thus for man, the tree of death happened to be an EXAMINATION that initiated a SELECTION process for the True SONS OF GOD amongst His creations!

shadeyinka:
It hasn't cost me my life yet, so, I can't complain!
Shalom my brother!

BassReeves:
1. Was that a wise or foolish thing that the woman did?

BassReeves:
2. After eating the fruit that was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, was the woman joyous about what she had done or was she sorrowful over eating it?

BassReeves:
3. Are you shocked or not, that the tree of knowledge of good and evil doubled up as the Tree of Death?

shadeyinka:

You are correct in that God must have known that Adam and Eve would eat of the the tree of death.

budaatum:


I was not aware that you too agree that theTree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is also the tree of death, Shade! Is this nonsense contagious or something?

Does Knowledge kill?

shadeyinka:

All Exams contain potential to convey Failure or Success!

In this case, there was a prior warning.

Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."

It's like saying "this is poison" on the day you eat of it, you shall die.

That tree carries something within it that kills, hence it is ALSO the tree of death.