Ihedinobi3:


I'm very sorry that you got dragged into this, but I'm quite certain that it would make no difference if I responded to him. He's not a reasonable interlocutor.

If I could offer my counsel, I would advise that you ignore him. I find that in time people like him stop bothering with you if you don't respond to them.

Another rubbish.
There's nothing reasonable here.

Myer:
Tithing was part of the Laws. If the new covenant we are no longer under Law, just as circumcision and sacrifices are no longer required, tithes are no longer a requirement. Only cheerful giving as one desire is encouraged.

Tithing is a part of the Old Covenant Laws. We are no longer under the Old Covenant Laws but instead under the New Covenant Law of Grace embodied in the person of Jesus Christ - a new contract/Covenant which we are called to obey.

The New Covenant has about 46 commandments in total that we are required to obey, as opposed to 613 commandments of the Old Covenant. Since the Old Covenant was a Covenant between God and the people of Israel(including the foreigners that live in the land of Israel), it does not apply to the rest of us, and so also its many rules are of no benefit to us either.

However, those who believe in the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, have a new set of rules to follow and only those who obey the commandments will eventually make it into the Kingdom of Heaven(one of the promises of the New Covenant).

Myer:
Speaking in tongues is supposed to be the primary evidence of baptism of the Holyspirit. Does that mean a Christian who doesn't speak in tongues does not have the Holyspirit?

I am not certain where you read that speaking in tongues is the "primary evidence" of having the Spirit of God, so I cannot comment on that.

A tongue is meant as a full-blown language, like any other language you have ever known, and not a recitation of gibberish synonyms which many confuse as the phenomena of "speaking in tongues". I have observed pagans, possibly under the influence of familiar spirits, recite a bunch of gibberish synonyms very much like what you hear in most churches today, so I would urge caution where this is concerned.

But Jesus Christ said that it is those who keep His commandments that He and His Father will make their house in, then it is indeed those who will be gifted with the true gift of Speaking in a foreign tongue. John 14

Myer:
The doctrine of eternal salvation.
John 3:16 speaks of eternal life in Christ.
Yet Revelations speaks of the fact that those who continue in sin would end up in hell fire.

I am afraid the confusion, in this case, is not in what is written but in your understanding of it.

Yes, Salvation gifts all those who simply believe with the gift of eternal life. What it doesn't do however is guarantee where they will spend that gift of eternity in the end. Recall that Salvation is from the consequence of Sin which is death, where the gift of eternal life guarantees those who have it an afterlife - eternal life after life on this earth.

The Covenant of Grace comes with two promises, a promise of eternity to be spent in Heaven for the righteous(saved and sanctified)or eternity in Hell for those who refuse to obey Jesus Christ(only saved). Now according to Jesus Christ, those of His flock who obey His commandments will be raised to eternal life in Heaven, while those who reject His commandments will be raised to spend eternity in Hell instead.

Myer:
Grace Vs Law
Does being under Grace abolish the Law? Should a Christian still be bound by Laws?

Abolish the Law? Even the Old Covenant is also an eternal Covenant, meaning it cannot be done away with/abolished.

That said, Jesus Christ warns His followers against attempting to follow both covenants.

Luke 5 vs 33-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33. They said to Jesus, “John’s followers often fast and pray, the same as the followers of the Pharisees. But your followers eat and drink all the time.”
34. Jesus said to them, “At a wedding, you can’t ask the friends of the bridegroom to be sad and fast while he is still with them.
35. But the time will come when the groom will be taken away from them. Then his friends will fast.”
36. Jesus told them this story: “No one takes cloth off a new coat to cover a hole in an old coat. That would ruin the new coat, and the cloth from the new coat would not be the same as the old cloth.
37. Also, no one ever pours new wine into old wineskins. The new wine would break them. The wine would spill out, and the wineskins would be ruined.
38. You always put new wine into new wineskins.
39. No one who drinks old wine wants new wine. They say, ‘The old wine is just fine.’”

You choose the one covenant that you want to have as Master over you and you follow only that Covenant. Since the Old Covenant belongs to the Children of Israel, it is not a no-brainer as far as which you ought to follow as one who is a Gentile and does not live in the land of Israel.

Myer:
Faith Vs Works
Does Faith alone guarantee heaven or Faith without works is dead?

As I already mentioned in an earlier response, faith refers to the collection of all the good works done in obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ, trusting fully in the Father's lead. So, it is by Faith that the righteous enter into the Kingdom of Heaven in the end.

Lastly, if you really believe in Jesus Christ, Grace Himself, it is in your best interest to learn His Truth. I suggested you read through the Gospel of John, to start with. Then move on through the rest of the Gospels as well.

If you have time, you can read up on the Old Covenant by reading the Books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. There are a total of 613 statues, 20 something blessings, almost 30 curses, 1 promise, 1 Seal(Circumcision) and those eligible are the Descendants of Jacob - foreigners who live in the land do not share in the promise, let alone externals. Reading through you will find that God uses a pattern in His contract there that He also uses in Jesus Christ.

budaatum:
Ihedinobi3, can I please require you to inform HellVictorinho of what you think of budaatum so he stops using budaatum as an indicator of that which you must accept as if budaatum were God.

buda will be most grateful. And accept my apologies for bothering you.

I didn't ask him to accept anything.
There's nothing logical about his posts.
I don't even care about what he thinks of budaatum.

HellVictorinho:


I didn't ask him to accept anything.
There's nothing logical about his posts.
I don't even care about what he thinks of budaatum.

Stop yelling buda in vain!

Ihedinobi3:


I'm very sorry that you got dragged into this, but I'm quite certain that it would make no difference if I responded to him. He's not a reasonable interlocutor.

If I could offer my counsel, I would advise that you ignore him. I find that in time people like him stop bothering with you if you don't respond to them.

You and I have found something we agree on.
You do not need to apologise for an accurate observation.

budaatum:


Stop yelling buda in vain!

I mentioned Einstein too.
That guy is the one posting in vain.

budaatum:


You and I have found something we agree on.
You do not need to apologise for an accurate observation.

There's nothing accurate about his statements.
The fact you agree with him doesn't make them accurate.

Ihedinobi3:


I'm not sure that I understand why you claim that one can't be certain of the Bible's stand on any issue.

To be clear, I see your examples and I understand that they are part of your argument. But as you yourself said, they are only a sampling of issues that you believe that the Bible is inconsistent or at least unclear about.

My concern then is to address the root rather than the symptoms. If I explained each of these things as I read them in the Bible, it will not solve the problem. The problem is that you are convinced that the Bible's position on things such as the examples you have provided cannot be known.

Therefore, my question is why do you have this conviction? Why is it not possible rather that it is just not easy to understand the Bible's position on any of these things?

Why not share what you believe is the Bible's stand on the doctrines highlighted first, then we can go from there.

Kobojunkie:
Forget the doctrine of Trinity which itself is a doctrine put together by men, something Jesus Christ calls a lie. Instead, learn of God from the Word of God.

According to Jesus Christ, He is the Word of God... The Truth of God, the one through which God spoke everything into being that was created. You can read up on this by carefully reading through the Gospels.
Most important in what sense? You forgot to specify a context.

Anyways, we know that God Himself is Love and every one of His acts is Love in action.
And as far as opinions on these things go, Paul's opinion, on what is most important, is his opinion. If you do not agree, that is fine too. But where Jesus Christ is concerned, when it comes to His commandments for His followers, He spoke of love as most important when it comes to the things of God...

...and since God Himself is Love , Jesus Christ commands love for one's enemies(going the extra mile to appease them) so that by doing so, one becomes perfect even as the Father is Perfect.


Here is what I have personally learned in my walk so far with God. Faith is not some mental gymnastics as is popularly believed. Instead, faith is instead a collection of all the good works done in obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ, trusting fully in the Father's lead.

God has work for everyone who believes in Him to do, and Jesus Christ never hid this fact from His followers in any way. He told them parable after parable explaining that there is indeed work to be done and every worker will be judged according to how well they do the work given them. So, yes, Faith is just as important as your works since they are not as independent of each other as many have, and continue to assume to this very moment.

Heaven is a reward available only to do who submit to the lead of the Spirit of God, obeying His commandments as a result. So, to everyone who wants to make it into the Kingdom of Heaven, that is very important.

P.S. All of Paul's letters were directed at those in the specified churches who already believed and had the Spirit of God living in them. Trying to understand one as one who has yet to understand the truth of God is like trying to climb over a high wall while in a wheelchair.

Thanks for your detailed response.
I'll take my time to give an equally detailed reply as soon as possible.

Myer:


Why not share what you believe is the Bible's stand on the doctrines highlighted first, then we can go from there.

I have already explained why I would rather not take that approach.

It is your thread and your inquiry. So you are certainly free to handle it as you please. Also, I am not the only respondent here nor are you forced to consider my opinion or response important enough to make any adjustments.

However, I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to get embroiled in endless arguments about things that those I discuss with don't really care about. I am a Bible teacher. My job is to explain Bible teachings to anyone who is willing to listen. So, I certainly can explain the Bible's position on your 12 items.

The question though is why you would believe me if you believe that the Bible's position is unknowable. It would be a waste of time on my part to do what you consider impossible.

So, again, I would suggest that you try to think about and answer for yourself why you think that the Bible does not have a clear position that can be known for sure. If we can unravel that knot, then it will be easier to explain the things that you have problems with.

Again, it's your call. This is your inquiry or challenge after all. You know how important it is to you to discover truth here. So you know exactly what you are willing to put on the line in that pursuit. You don't need to follow my advice at all if you don't want to.

I am not a Christian; but the best way for a Christian to learn; is to imitate Christ. That should be your No 1 quality
Don't Imitate you friends, family, Pastor Don't imitate any prophet in the Bible or even Jesus Disciples'.
A Christian should only be concerned with Imitating Christ in Actions, Words and Thought.
Christian Means: CHRIST LIKE.
I go to Church on Sundays and see many people but i only see a few CHRISTIANS.

About whether Faith or Work is more Important i would say both are Important.
Jesus set the perfect Example.
FAITH: Jesus believed in God; and he also Prayed.
WORKS: Jesus also healed the sick, Raised the dead,Fed 5,000 people and so on.
Note: The reason why the world is evil is because the Bad Guys(Agents of Darkness) are Dominating the World is because they are more Active than Christians.
Being a Christian is not only about avoiding SIN; It is also about Doing GOOD DEEDS.

The Bible is a complete DESCRIPTION OF OUR OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT AND OMNIEVERYTHING GOD.

Myer:
Just when you think you understand anything about the Bible, you'll find another verse that proves otherwise.

The above statement is very true and insightful op, and is why many call it a "Living Book", because the more you breathed into it the more it comes alive inside your mind.

The Bible is a big complex book that develops your brain and mind. While as a child you may believe what you read, and understand as a child and think as a child who sees through glass darkly and knows only in part, you will find that as you grow and develop, you will put childish things away and become an adult who sees face to face so that you shall know even as also I am known.

However, and note the seeming contradiction, to become an adult who sees face to face, you must become as a child and be reborn, as in, abandon your beliefs and start as one born out of one's mother's womb as a baby who knows nothing. And then must you ask and seek and knock with all your heart and soul and mind and being until you find understanding. It is precisely this that the Pharisees could not do and which ended with Crucify Him.

If anyone told you picking up your heavy cross and following Christ is easy, they either see you as a child and do not wish to scare you and so ask that you just believe for now until you receive the ministering Holy Spirit, or you have asked for bread and been handed a serpent and a scorpion by those of whom Christ said "Woe"! And there are those who bother not to understand and just collect their thirty pieces of silver and say "Hail, master" and kiss Christ.

May we all gain understanding, in Jesus' Mighty Name.

Ref:
https://www.nairaland.com/6270982/tell-me-how-african-atheist

Kobojunkie:
Abolish the Law? Even the Old Covenant is also an eternal Covenant, meaning it cannot be done away with/abolished.

Really? You will not be done away with/abolished "an eye for an eye?

I got to wonder how you plan to love your neighbours and your enemies moreso even after they have slapped both your cheeks 7 times 70 times if you have not first abolished the old covenant of "an eye for an eye" from your heart and mind.

I'm just glad and delighted that Jesus has gracefully abolished most of the old covenant in me, and pray the rest of it is abolished in due time, in Jesus Name. Amen

budaatum:


Really? You will not be done away with/abolished "an eye for an eye?

I got to wonder how you plan to love your neighbours and your enemies moreso even after they have slapped both your cheeks 7 times 70 times if you have not first abolished the old covenant of "an eye for an eye" from your heart and mind.

I'm just glad and delighted that Jesus has gracefully abolished most of the old covenant in me, and pray the rest of it is abolished in due time, in Jesus Name. Amen

Please pick up a Bible and learn what is written in it.

Kobojunkie:
Please pick up a Bible and learn what is written in it.

You go and pick up a Bible and learn what is written in it! It might make you realise how arrogant you sound thinking you are the only one who has read it!

budaatum:

You go and pick up a Bible and learn what is written in it! It might make you realise how arrogant you sound thinking you are the only one who has read it!

I am the arrogant one?

It is written in your Bible that the Old Covenant is an everlasting that God made with the people of Israel. Even Jesus Christ affirmed this Truth when He announcing that He did not come to abolish the Old Covenant, submiting that Heaven and Earth will pass away but the Word God will never pass away.

If you do not know what God declared and Jesus Christ, God's avatar, reiterated, is it arrogance to direct you to read the Bible where this is all documented for those who are interested in learning of this Truth to glean?

Kobojunkie:
I am the arrogant one?

If you do not know what God declared and Jesus Christ, God's avatar, reiterated, is it arrogance to direct you to read the Bible where this is all documented for those who are interested in learning of this Truth to glean?

Is you god Hindu?

Avatar
1784, "descent of a Hindu deity to earth in an incarnate or tangible form," from Sanskrit avatarana "descent" (of a deity to the earth in incarnate form), from ava- "off, down" (from PIE root *au- (2) "off, away" + base of tarati "(he) crosses over," from PIE root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through, overcome."

Meaning "concrete embodiment of something abstract" is from 1815. In computer use, it seems to trace to the novel "Snowcrash" (1992) by Neal Stephenson.

Kobojunkie:
I am the arrogant one?

It is written in your Bible that the Old Covenant is an everlasting that God made with the people of Israel. Even Jesus Christ affirmed this Truth when He announcing that He did not come to abolish the Old Covenant, submiting that Heaven and Earth will pass away but the Word God will never pass away.

If you do not know what God declared and Jesus Christ, God's avatar, reiterated, is it arrogance to direct you to read the Bible where this is all documented for those who are interested in learning of this Truth to glean?

And yet, Jesus is specifically written to have said:

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And in your own opinion, the old covenant is not abolished!

Please tell me, do you go about doing the things Jesus abolished above, or do you just not understand what you read?

budaatum:

The above statement is very true and insightful op, and is why many call it a "Living Book", because the more you breathed into it the more it comes alive inside your mind.

The Bible is a big complex book that develops your brain and mind. While as a child you may believe what you read, and understand as a child and think as a child who sees through glass darkly and knows only in part, you will find that as you grow and develop, you will put childish things away and become an adult who sees face to face so that you shall know even as also I am known.

However, and note the seeming contradiction, to become an adult who sees face to face, you must become as a child and be reborn, as in, abandon your beliefs and start as one born out of one's mother's womb as a baby who knows nothing. And then must you ask and seek and knock with all your heart and soul and mind and being until you find understanding. It is precisely this that the Pharisees could not do and which ended with Crucify Him.

If anyone told you picking up your heavy cross and following Christ is easy, they either see you as a child and do not wish to scare you and so ask that you just believe for now until you receive the ministering Holy Spirit, or you have asked for bread and been handed a serpent and a scorpion by those of whom Christ said "Woe"! And there are those who bother not to understand and just collect their thirty pieces of silver and say "Hail, master" and kiss Christ.

May we all gain understanding, in Jesus' Mighty Name.

Ref:
https://www.nairaland.com/6270982/tell-me-how-african-atheist

May the Gods people create in their heads leave their heads and find a house in Lagos to live so that LordReed and HellVictorinho will ask them if they like their creators.
In Jesus Name,
Amen.
Wetin remain??

Martian:


Is you god Hindu?

Avatar
1784, "descent of a Hindu deity to earth in an incarnate or tangible form," from Sanskrit avatarana "descent" (of a deity to the earth in incarnate form), from ava- "off, down" (from PIE root *au- (2) "off, away" + base of tarati "(he) crosses over," from PIE root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through, overcome."

Meaning "concrete embodiment of something abstract" is from 1815. In computer use, it seems to trace to the novel "Snowcrash" (1992) by Neal Stephenson.

Tell him about Mishgas.

budaatum:

And yet, Jesus is specifically written to have said:

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And in your own opinion, the old covenant is not abolished!

Please tell me, do you go about doing the things Jesus abolished above, or do you just not understand what you read?

Buda, it is obvious that you specialize in cherry-picking even where Jesus Christ is concerned. Why not instead of picking around what He said, read up to learn everything He actually said because it all constitutes His Truth, and then decide afterwards if Jesus Christ is really for you or not for you.

HellVictorinho:

Tell him about Mishgas.

No one is ready for the Mishgas. You have to cross seven seas and climb seven mountains before you can even begin the initiation rights.

Martian:


Is you god Hindu?

Avatar
1784, "descent of a Hindu deity to earth in an incarnate or tangible form," from Sanskrit avatarana "descent" (of a deity to the earth in incarnate form), from ava- "off, down" (from PIE root *au- (2) "off, away" + base of tarati "(he) crosses over," from PIE root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through, overcome."

Meaning "concrete embodiment of something abstract" is from 1815. In computer use, it seems to trace to the novel "Snowcrash" (1992) by Neal Stephenson.

That, is precisely what is being claimed in the Gospel According to John.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Basically, that Jesus was an avatar, as in a "concrete embodiment of something abstract".

Martian:
Is you god Hindu?
Avatar
1784, "descent of a Hindu deity to earth in an incarnate or tangible form," from Sanskrit avatarana "descent" (of a deity to the earth in incarnate form), from ava- "off, down" (from PIE root *au- (2) "off, away" + base of tarati "(he) crosses over," from PIE root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through, overcome."

Meaning "concrete embodiment of something abstract" is from 1815. In computer use, it seems to trace to the novel "Snowcrash" (1992) by Neal Stephenson.

Not the hindu specific definition

2. an icon or figure representing a particular person in video games, internet forums, etc.

From this, I am able to declare that Jesus Christ is God's avatar on Earth.

Kobojunkie:
Buda, it is obvious that you specialize in cherry-picking even where Jesus Christ is concerned. Why not instead of picking around what He said, read up to learn everything He actually said because it all constitutes His Truth, and then decide afterwards if Jesus Christ is really for you or not for you.

Stop accusing others of what you yourself do.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13164845_notable02586_jpegd2d14e400fafd83a1fb1c6dacb17e936

budaatum:
Stop accusing others of what you yourself do.

Oh, now you accuse me of Cherry-picking as far as the Truth of God is concerned. So, what evidence do you have against me in that?

Kobojunkie:
Oh, now you accuse me of Cherry-picking as far as the Truth of God is concerned. So, what evidence do you have against me in that?

You must have noticed I am reading a lot of what you post where you constantly attack anything that does not seem to conform to your narrow beliefs. Go back and read your own posts to see for yourself what it is you do.

You would be advised to Taming the Tongue, but I'm certain you'd say buda picks cherrys.

budaatum:
You must have noticed I am reading a lot of what you post where you constantly attack anything that does not seem to conform to your narrow beliefs. Go back and read your own posts to see for yourself what it is you do.

You would be advised to Taming the Tongue, but I'm certain you'd say buda picks cherrys.

Why drag this? You opened accused me here, so I ask you where is the evidence you have of my cherry-picking as far as the Truth of God is concerned?

Kobojunkie:
I am the arrogant one?

It is written in your Bible ....

The Bible you yourself said:

Kobojunkie:
The apostles did not have the Book you call the Bible. Many of them were uneducated so even the scriptures during their time was far from them.

Instead, those who have the Bible to read have chosen to worship it as if a god of sorts when it was never intended as one. It is indeed a book that contains the Word of God(Jesus Christ) but itself is not holy or divine in anyway or form.

Trust me, the below is your truest statement. It is unfortunate that you do not even seem to understand what you yourself write!

Kobojunkie:
I don't understand what you mean.