₦airaland Forum

enough of all these. I'm tired already. Let's stop using blackmail. Nobody is above mistake

Has it gotten to the point of obsessing over me, really? The fact is that i don't even know if you exist or not. If you like, sleep on my profile, while I move higher

silentdon: Address the very salient issues he raised and stop using tautology to avoid facts.

Just checked ur profile nd posts, 9 of your 10 topics are about doctors and 98% of your posts are also about them so it's you that need to stop whining nd ranting, and go and get a (meaningful) life.

I didn't even bother reading the nonsense after the first line. Patient's perspective indeed. If you are a patient, I advise you first take care of your deteriorating health before making any contribution on issues you know nothing about. Go back to your hospital bed biko.

jpphilips: So we are clear, if you read that thing I wrote up there and mistake me for a doctor then, if you are a medical practitioner, your sense of judgement is greatly impaired, If you want to know how doctors write read Phantom's post.
Like the Thread title suggests, this is for the patients, the Doctors and the "Doctor wanna be" can excuse us!!

Just in case "you" (assuming you are one of the doctor wannabe) who want to own patients, be rest assured that will only happen in the vertinary clinics because I can bet you that patient wont be me.

Another Dr weeping thread. Pele. opening new threads every now and then will not solve the problem at hand

jpphilips: No, it is a monster's Opinion.

and I guess patients were not dying when Doctors were working abi? Imagine? hehehehheeheh. Whe patients die in German hospitals and other developed countries with the most sophisticated healthcare. when our hospitals are nothing more than mortuary when Drs were working. You are here claiming miracle workers. I'm sure patients did not die when JOHESU went on strike. Infact they received the best care when only Drs were working Mtcheeeeww

Aura2: Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

the same way you liken the hospital and patient care to aircraft and court. lol

Aura2: A Federal teaching hospital can now be likened to Dangote flour? I hail Nigerians!!

The only thing they can do is beg. That is the ideal thing. That is politicians for you. Use NMA strike for cheap publicity. Don't forget that there is difference between begging and granting your wish. Don't see his "begging" as a win for NMA. nah.patient will beg, Fg will beg, even johesu sef go join beg una. but as for granting your demands, you people are still sitting on a veeerrryyy long thing. FG can only grant the reasonable ones like NHIS (which johesu has ammended), trust fund. but know that You can't force Govt to succumb to your selfish demands. People can only "publicly beg" and at the end, NMA will shamelessly go back to work. You guys are still in Denial stage. very soon, you will move to the next stage. It's a pity that your stages of grieve is moving slowly. Imagine, the world is against NMA (JOHESU, FG, "IGNORANT NIGERIAN PUBLIC", NIC, NUC, TUC, CBN), and you people refused to see the handwriting on the wall. Is this a case of persecutory delusion?Then, you are on your own. You want to challenge your master

phantom: like I said in one of my earlier posts,you people(johesu,FG and the ignorant Nigerian public)are in the very early stages of grief particularly denial and anger.
we will call of the strike when you all enter the stage of acceptance!
uduaghan io just the first of many to PUBLICLY BEG. more to come.

He is helping NMA return to work without shame. He is trying to save NMA's face, you can call off strike with reason that you guys heeded to his advise, . But you guys won't see it that way. I trust Jonathan to do the right thing. Some of your colleagues have returned to work, and I expect you to join them. You guys think once you issue strike threat, govt will succumb as usually. Sorry, it's no longer business as usual. The strike has entered 2weeks yet no show.

really? did you just type that? I can see that you have selective amnesia

sainty2k3: Only if people will stop insulting and bring up reasomabnle argument alone. This discussioom would have made a lot of sense, but my johessuite here always start the insult

did you see his post? He tried to convert his salary to dollars

bigtt76: You shouldn't retort to insults dear. OP posted in dollars and we all know most members here are based outside Nigeria and ought to know the difference ...we bi one Nigeria fa

Do all Drs write incoherently? I wonder

silentdon: And who does the owner of the private hospital puts in charge of the workings of the hospital?

Who else if not docs becomes surgeon general in the US and elsewhere where such is practiced? JOHESU (nurses nd record officers) ?

You don't understand his last question because you haven't been to a proper medical sch/uni. If you have, it'll be crystal clear.

who says they don't visit hospitals when Drs are on strike? where do they visit? That is when things will start working well self esoecially in a country like Nigeria. lol

MovingTrain: I personally reason in line with the research findings about death rate when doctors are on strike. It might be lower, granted.

But this has a very simple logical explanation, data and statistics for birth and death are taken in hospitals, when doctors are on strike these sick patients won't visit the hospitals and most probably die at home thus leading to lost statistics.

So yes, RECORDED death rate might be reduced when doctors are on strike but ACTUAL death rate is however increased. It's not rocket science per say..

hahahahahahah. chaii. is that the only line you've got? Can't make any brilliant arguement? When I fall sick, I will see my dr for medical care, because that is what he is trained to do. However, I will rely on the nurses for their nursing care, and the lab dudes for medical test as well as the pharmacist for the right drug.

micseyi: Chai! Eeya. U must have been withdrawn from med Sch or u scored very low in Jamb or you failed ur O-level; or which now. Well i pity u sha. if u fall sick by d way, make sure u see ur fellow nurse and don't ever go to see a doc, if nt shame on u.

Thanks for your analysis. But will you also say that Nigerian nurses and other medical workers are well paid compared to their counterparts in US? your ability to earn high salary depends on the hours you put into your work. Imagine your sister pulling 140k with just an LVN? imagine making 2,200 with just 3weeks certificate program?can you compare that to the salary of a matron in Nigerian tertiary hospital?My main point is that there are things to put into consideration when making comparison on salaries abroad and home and between professionals. And yes, Nigerian health workers are grossly under paid not just the Drs. You don't just pull out a figure out of nowhere like the OP did and expect people to digest it just like that. Thanks once more

obodoyibo: @prettyprettywow

You are partially off track.......first I want to say that I live in the us .....I am both a nursing assistant and a registered male nurse in the states......I am yet to pass my board as an RN though......I want to add to what most of you guys have said

First to be a nursing assistant in the united states only takes 3weeks......I have worked as a nursing assistant for 2yrs and my monthly salary is $2, 200 a month....yes I work 2 jobs but I make more money more than an entry level doctors in Nigeria just with a 3wks certificate.

Secondly, all of my brothers and sisters here in the states are all nurses. My friend who is with me while I am typing this is a medical student and I have friends who are either doctors already or are in medical school.. .in fact my two nieces are also in medical school and I helped them in making that choice and the admission too...

That being said....someone asked why are Nigerians traveling abroad or in the states all want to be nurses. .the reason is because the medical field is a booming profession in the united states and it is not going to slow down soon....in fact as I am typing this there are reports of shortage of medical doctors in California and they government and private sectors are now sponsoring people for free who desire to be doctors.....the government is giving them loans which they would not pay back until after 2yrs of graduation.....this is different from school scholarships and grants that american student usually qualify for......

Entry level nurses get between $45,000 to $65,000 annually ........in California $55,000 to $80,000 annually.....

Whether it is (LPN, RN, BSN).....jobs in the states depends on the individual and how many hours or jobs that he or she can work. ...my sister is an[b] (LVN.....liscence vocation nurse.....it only takes 12 months in some states or 16 months in maryland to acquire the certificate......my sister only graduated 2yrs ago and without any experience she makes $140,000 annually......[/[/b]b]she works 6 days a wk and 16hrs a day in 2 jobs.....I pick up her check for her and so I am not exergeration or making up stories for you. [b]Her job is so easy and not hard as some of you may think.. I work for the same agency where she works and I know.
I am doing my BS nursing now and when I finish and work only one job... I may not make up to what my sister is making even though I have a Bs......

After taking USMSLE 1,2,3 it then takes 3-4yrs to complete residency and earn a family doctor liscence ......resident doctors earn between $45,000 to $55,000......after residency...new entry level doctors earn $65,000 to $124,000 depending on where you get a job. But like in nursing.....whether new entry level or not most doctors go home with between $90,000 to $180, 000 annually. My friend who just got his liscence in family medicine 2yrs ago makes $380,000 annually.....he works 2-3 jobs with clinics outside houston Texas in rural areas.. He is currently living in a hone of $900,000 in houston Texas. He would pay off his motgate by next year. He is only 34yrs ...just got married. Most Nigerian doctors I know in houston Texas live in a home between $450,000 to $1,800,000 .....more than %75 are below 35 yes.

Nigerian doctors earn peanuts but however they are living in a 3rd world country . but the government can improve their welfare.

Though you reasoning is somehow, But if I have a private hospital, then I will have to be in charge, if not, I will employe a seasoned administrator to be in charge of the day to day activities while i do the work I was trained to do.. Public hospital is govt hospital, so govt should decide who should head it and not an individual group

dalhat14: so why not they go and own and head private hospitals, since they say they can head government owned ones, so we can see how many patients they have, aren't they all hospitals?

1.Because private hospital has to be headed by the owner. which kind reasoning be this?

2. it is not your business to decide if having consultant in other field will affect the patient or not. let the govt and the patient decide that.

3. Don't we have director of public health in the ministry of health? what is his/her functions? And who told you Surgeon-General has to be a Dr?

4.Isn't there already relativity in Nigerian health sector? What level does a Dr start and what level do others start?

5. What is the role of Directors? Don't we all have rights to get to the peak of our careers? why should you allow one group get to Directorate level and prevent others ?

6. You last question is incoherent. I will respond to that when you write coherently.

Thank You

dalhat14: A lot of stories have been peddled around in the last few days all in an attempt to swing public opinion to either side of the divide, well here are pertinent questions we should ask ourselves

1. There seem to be a heated argument over which group of health workers should head government owned hospitals, how comes there are no contentions over who heads private hospitals.

2. Of what importance is this argument over who becomes a consultant is to the patient and health delivery, I know a consultant physician is supposed to be the knowledgeable doctor that other doctors who are yet to be consultants take difficult cases to, and we feel safer in their hands, would the role of a consultant lab scientist or nurse or pharmacists add value to patient care

3. Why would there be an argument over appointment of a surgeon general who in the united states oversees all public health initiatives and programmes for American citizens while the minister takes care of administration and is not necessarily a medical personnel.

4. What's the salary scale of the various health workers in other countries, within Africa and beyond and is there a relativity amongst the various staff.

5. What would be the role of directors in the hospital, would it benefit the patient.

6. How comes medical doctors who are professors in anatomy and physiotherapy are not regarded as consultants in teaching hospital despite their years of experience but are basically in the academic lines training the younger ones but other experienced staff like lab scientist want to be regarded as consultants.

No mind them. In Nigeria, even if patients want to sue, they usually sue the hospital which is govt owned, and in most cases, they settle out of court. So he should tell me if any patient have ever sued an individual Dr in Govt hospitals? The right thing is to sue the employer. It is left for the hospital and the professional body to discipline the erring professional

Morotov1: Somebody please get a lawyer to educate Dr phantom...............what the f****k. Although this can occur when others are accessory before or after the fact while doctors are the main culprit or vice versa.
Lay your hand on some medical ethics , jurisprudence and the rest of them textbook and brush up.....heck get some studded education and enlighten on what is happening in the living world not Nigerian dead health system.
With these mindset, no wonder every Harry Dick and Tom in medical school believe others are under them.
Even in Nigeria, nurses get sued like crazy and most of the news don't make the headline.

I don't have time for that. I live in the present, for tomorrow will think about itself. Remember things don't always go the way we plan.

phantom: I am being logical. I know you are woman and logic is not really your strong suit but make an effort to leave emotions behind and paint me your own scenario.

Nigerian drs and their insecurities sha. I no too blame them. Imagine mobilizing their members to stop the implementation of post graduate college of medical lab sci in Nigeria. They Feel that the progress of others will sideline them. Thinking the whole world is against them which is not so.

Chai, it is true that young men shall dream dreams. Dream on. na you get your sleep

phantom: why everything for you na fight?
like say una never realise say which ever way this drama end,doctors no go fit lose.
if the other healthcare workers spoil the public system,everyone including johesu go run go private sector(for those who can afford it)
now guess who is king in the private sector?
all it takes is for the doctors to refuse treatment to patients without lab tests or radiological exams ratified by doctors.
this automatically makes sure that johesu-run outfits can ONLY treat patients with johesu lab&radio exams.
doctors will comfortably create a strata system in private health.

You just described yourself and your cohorts. If Drs are not satisfied with what the Govt is offering them, they should go to the private sector nah? or open their individual hospitals. It is as simple as that. why hold the Govt at ransome? if you feel you are not well appreciated, then go to where you will be appreciated. That is the rule of life. Stop causing nuisance to others. Beside, it is the Drs that are never satisfied with themselves, hence they pork nose into other people's affairs. UCHE, FACE YOUR WORK!!!!

DrObum: Your bickering and animosity won't help the system nor help your life.
I believe in life, if you aren't satisfied with what you're doing, leave it, go get trained and join the team you want to be like!
You don't need to fight and attempt bringing down the entire sector because you wish to be treated like the other professionals.

I paid the same school fees with medical students if you must know

DrObum: You're still wrong dear!
I for a person started training in Health Sciences before I left and opted to study Medicine. We never paid the same fees!
There's relativity in school fees inall Nigerian universities I know of!

Then you people should go and leave us alone with Govt. Nobody is forcing you to stay with the Govt owned hospitals. Haba! Better still, you can migrate to US, UK, or Canda make we hear word

phantom: I agree! more and more doctors are moving to private practice in Nigeria. private practice is particularly profitable for specialist doctors.
if you have a well packaged outfit in Lagos,abuja or PH, and you know what you are doing,the sky is your limit.

Go and rest jare. all the medical and health sciences students pay the same school fees in Govt owned universities. Haba!! don't start spreading lies. let there be relativity in university tuition!!!!

DrObum: Please which Nigerian university did you attend where you paid the same fees with a medical student?
Go back and check, there's no where that medical school cost the same as other tertiary institutions.
And the fact that we don't operate a loan system doesn't mean people didn't work out their salvation trying to get trained in medical school!

so we already have the relativity we are talking about? so what is now the problem?

ziga: And what is wrong with that?

As long as the wages he deserves corresponds to the wages earned by a Level 12 officer, there is nothing wrong with that.

Or would you prefer, that they be paid at level 1?

If that happened, do you think there will be any Doctors left practicing in the Nigerian health system?

Let us try to be non-sentimental about our judgement.

Another blame the nurse post. later they will claim that they are the once that get sued. A typical Naija Dr will never ever own up to his mistake

thegeneral84: Just to correct this impression. I'm not trying to blame any field, but if ever an instrument is left inside a patient after surgery, it's the fault of the circulating Nurse. The Doctor concentrates on the surgery proper. Its the work of the circulating Nurse to ensure that the number of instruments at the beginning of the surgery is the same number at the end. When the surgery is done and the patient is to be closed up, the Nurse has to give them the go-ahead that all instruments are complete before they close up the patient. So if an instrument is left inside a patient, it's the circulating Nurse that made the mistake. In such situations, have you heard the Doctor saying it's the Nurse's fault? He would accept the blame for the team because he is the "face" of the team

NMA starts at level 12 after NYSC, tell me any civil servant that starts at that? so what other relativity are we talking about? Until you start paying higher fees than others in school, then DO NOT TALK!!

thegeneral84: Nobody is asking to be paid the same figures as the US Doctors. If I'm correct, NMA is more concerned about "relativity" than the actual salary figures. Once the salary is decent enough for the Nigerian setting, they are okay but they are insisting that the relativity in salaries must be maintained in the health sector. the NMA requests for being started @ a higher level, etc is aimed at restoring the relativity and not actually asking for salary increase. Believe me, if JOHESU accepts for their salaries to be reduced to restore relativity, NMA would be satisfied with their present salaries if such reduction restores relativity. But that cannot happen, so their only lee way is to ask for salary increase to restore back the relativity

Now don't we have anaesthetic nurses? midwives? intensive care nurses? peri-operative nurses?emergency room nurses?psychiatric nurses? really? Mtcheeeeeeeeeewwwwwww

Dio1: There really aren't specialist nurses in nigerian teaching hospitals , so your point is baseless, nigerian nurses and their johesu cohorts are not interested in specialization… they're more concerned about salary

The Minister of Health, Prof. Onyebuchi Chukwu, has said the post of surgeon-general can only be created by the legislature at the federal level.

He said this in an exclusive interview with SUNDAY PUNCH, on the sidelines of the West African College of Surgeons secretariat foundation-laying ceremony in Lagos. He was asked to respond to one of 24 demands made by the Nigerian Medical Association, which embarked on a nationwide strike on July 1, 2014.

According to item seven on the association’s list of demands, a Surgeon-General of the Federation must be appointed with immediate effect.
But the minister said the position was for technical purposes and could only be appointed by the National Assembly.

He said, “The position of surgeon-general does not necessarily mean it will be for a surgeon. It’s going to be a technical position; someone who is not a political appointee can address technical issues about medicine in the health sector.

“So that one is something that I think the whole country will decide, either through constitutional amendment or the National Assembly making the appropriate law.” The NMA’s demands were contained in an open letter addressed to the Secretary to the Government of the Federation.

Some of the demands by the apex body for medical doctors include the discontinuation of recognition of non-medical doctors as directors, as well as of the title of consultant for any other health worker other than medical doctors.

Others include payment of clinical duty and hazard allowances; withdrawal of the Central Bank of Nigeria circular on medical laboratory equipment; restoration and proper funding of overseas clinical attachment; and the setting up of a health trust fund to enhance the upgrade of all hospitals in the country.
http://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/07/only-legislature-can-appoint-surgeon-general-mdash-health-minister/#.U8ILsPldVCg

So why do you say That RNs earn that? really? so they now earn same with CNA, LVN. So tell me their entry level

DebateNigeria: CNA earns about $30,000, while LVN earn about $40,000......Please note, this is not an "entry level" salary.

I am not here to compare Drs and Nurses salaries. I said some specialist nurses earn more than some specialist Drs using the examples I gave. You don't expect to receive same salary with a Dr that spent atleast 12years in training with average of 300k school debt while nurse spends about 4years with little or no student loan. These things are put into consideration when negotiating for salary But the conditions are different in Nigeria. Nurses have the opportunity of getting fundings and scholarships which a medical student will never get in US, because they believe that Drs can always make money later in life hence the high medical school fees

But nigerian Drs don't want to put all those into consideration (low pay during residency, high student debt, high malpractice insurance) cos they work in govt hospitals and do not pay higher sch fees

DebateNigeria: I am not confusing myself. My interpretation of what you posted was that he was comparing consultant doctors to entry level nurses. I am sorry if I got you wrong.
But you agree with me that nurses and other health professionals don't earn as much as doctors anywhere in the world, at least nit in the USA.
You made mention of anaesthesic Nurses, did you check what consultant(doctor) anesthetist earn? I am sure it may even double that of the nurses.

do your research well. don't just quote just for the sake of arguement. if registered nurses earn that, then tell me what certified nurse assistants(CNA) and licensed vocational nurses (LVN) earn

DebateNigeria: Link please. We do details here and facts. Once I am convinced I add to my knowledge and rest my case...

Btw, I am not talking about nurses, I am talking about entry level nurse.
Any nurse in the house, please clarify, I guess staff nurse is the same as auxiliary nurse. If that's the case, that means the are still auxiliary nurses in the USA. How come they are not recognized and given the proper training in Nigeria.