₦airaland Forum

Appleyard:
Actually, wars are about achieving objectives. Victory and defeat in war are gauged by the objectives each sides set forth to achieve before, during, and at the end of the war, not just the capture of capitals per se.

The use of the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki forced Japan into an uncontrollable surrender. When you surrender, you've been defeated. Surrender means you no longer have the capacity to fight on, meaning accepting defeat.

So when Japan surrendered, the US defeated them and thus it's objectives was achieved.

Like you rightly mentioned, defeat may include the capture of an enemy's capital seat of power, but that is not always the determining factor.

US in Vietnam and Soviet in Afghan were said to have lost those wars because at the end of war, they did not achieve their core objectives they set forth before the war.

You're talking about a whole other issue.

Since medieval times, marching on the capital means defeat. Hence why the seat of power in those times was always fortified heavily to withstand attacks for months, years and so on.
As long as that stand, soldiers were still loyal and willing to fight.

Of course objective still matters depending on why the war started in the fight place. You grab border lands. As a show of deterrence etc etc.

Example if Nigeria goes to war with Cameroon, if it gets to the Capital and raise her flag then the general idea is that they war is over, those Cameroon forces still fighting in other regions will now be known as enemy of state even if 24hrs ago, they were fighting for their country.

They can wedge guerrilla warfare but they would be termed rebellions, terrorist and all that.

Hope you get the point I'm trying to make

Krismas:
Why den has Ukraine standing alone over the last 100yrs not been able to go to space? Are not known for any tech or great businesses?

if you want to know read on it. if you want me to tell you ask properly.

1stGenAmerican:
Guys like that are so busy citing history to understand that Russia’s poor performance now becomes a part of history, nullifying some things that happened in the past.

How to easily spot them, the attribute the USSR prowess to Russia. When it's a well-known fact that Ukraine was the brains of that alliance and Russia was just numbers

HBB1:
Not just the tracks my arrogant friend

which leads to point 1. no tank is indestructible but that doesn't change the fact that the latest version of Abrams tank can defend itself against ATGM either.

Igbofam:
You just bodied the Mudaf**er

e come dey ask me if Reddit na pro-Ukraine... lol

person wey I first ask make e check him Russian records because I knew his type, them go ask you for evidence when you provide it they will turn and shout western propaganda

Bigchristo:
stop talking trash Russia remains the major opposition to the US go and check history of wars Russia has been proved relevant in any Cold War, stop allowing media propaganda to fool you I can boldly say it that the US don’t have the balls to even engage Russia currently because the weapons they’re currently researching on is being used by Russia, no country has ever deployed or used Hypersonic missiles apart from Russia and there flits of weapons hidden from the world, soon US will no longer be feared by smaller countries if they have Nuclear weapons

I didn't know you were US DoD and Foreign Policy. wehdone

Krismas:
I suspected very much that neither u nor Biden know about the deep military relationship btw Russia and India. Else u won’t have been talking anyhow about India and Biden wud not have been forcing India to vote against Russia

You keep going off point... the reason I asked is because anybody that have in depth knowledge of military stuff would have known that it isn't yesterday or this year, not even last year that India placed an order for the S-400 to counter China deployment near its borders.

so you celebrating this news was a shock to me so I had to confirm if you just started being interested from Feb 24th 2020

Krismas:
U can cross check. India has just bought S400 from Kremlin. Its on RT freshly pressed
India Ships in More Russian S-400s Despite Ukraine Conflict

India has received an order of Russian S-400 air defense systems, according to local media, with officials stating the shipments would continue despite Western efforts to force countries around the world to scuttle relations with Moscow over its ongoing military campaign in Ukraine.

“We are continuing to receive our consignments without any delays or issues, and the latest consignment of overhauled engines was received a few days ago despite the war [in Ukraine],” one unnamed official said.

The missile platforms arrived in the country by air and sea and have since been deployed in “designated locations,” senior govt officials told India Today, noting the S-400s are “now operational.”

Subscribe to RT /rtnews

wait o! before I continue to the reply you... When you start to dey follow military news and other related events?
very important

gamechanger547:
You're the one who kept jumping up and down!

I mentioned France to tell you war ain't easy as you people think! Let me ask you, Are things that difficult for you to understand?

Why do you surrender in a war if you're not been defeated? you surrender because of the fear of total defeat and rate of casualties!

You know very little about War.

Why do you keep shifting the goal post?

You asked about base or so that the tanks were built etc instead of saying chassis!( You're a novice)

You know nothing about Military equipment but just follow what you see.

Is reddit pro Ukraine or not? is it owned by a neutral entity in this conflict? Yes or Know?

You said pictures of T90 was sent, yes and I sent a picture of just one type of T72 but you guys kept moving in cycle.

Guy just go rest.

man lost so bad he's nitpicking on things.

Now you have moved to is reddit pro-Ukraine. So Reddit bought the T-90, moved it to Ukraine and fire on it right?

sometimes just take time and read your comment and ask yourself
why am I so dumb

Krismas:
Tell dat to the Taliban Am sure they will frighten that the Americans will go to war to prop the dollar. U think we in the 40s? That’s the same miscalculation of Biden He soon fall asleep on the mic, thinking Harris is the First Lady

I like my head and neck the way they are on My shoulder

HBB1:
You don't have to be rude you know.
It is very bad taste.

About RPGs, you only need to look up pictures (or videos) of Abram Tanks in Yemen destroyed by RPGs (RPG 27 or 29).

With bad tactics and with the right weapons, your beloved Abrams is screwed!

It is the same with any other tank.

So I maintain my stance about the Javelin.

read point one and 3 again. this time slowly.

You're repeating what I said back to me

Appleyard:
Sorry, I thought I was discussing with someone capable of sound reasoning, my bad.

Alaye, propaganda champion.

gamechanger547:
You people put your mouth into what you don't know.

The T-90 is not just a renamed T-72, while it has the same chassis as the T-72, it has a different turret, as well as gun, engine and capabilities in general.

Are you ok now.

They have the same chassis but different turret, gun, engine etc.

I simply ask you guys to check the turret and compare but you people kept going to and fro.

You spoke about the same Ka52 which are now operating in pairs to destroy Ukraine Militarily!
They have done a lot of damage to Ukraine Militarily. Few might have been brought down but too few to change the way in Ukraine favor.

You seem to amaze me with what you put out!

Saying you take a capital eg Kyiv before you win a war? You win a war when the other party is exhausted, demoralized, degraded and they lack the ability to continue to fight.

Did turkey capture Cyprus capital before they made peace? Did UK capture Argentina capital before they surrendered Falkland islands?

France was beaten black and blue by Germany during WW2 in a month of fighting.

War is not child's play especially when you have lots of backers.

As per SU35, it's still flying over Ukraine on bombing raids likewise S34 and almost obsolete Su24 and Su25.

Why haven't Ukraine destroyed all the Su24 and Su25 bombing them it it's that easy as you claim or say?

like I said you talk too much....

When was France considered captured, wasn't it the fall of Paris. Same for Germany.
Japan surrendered, they weren't defeated.
Same with all other ways that ended that way.

Dude you don't very little idea of war fare...

You were sent pictures of the T-90 but you kept doubling down on your ignorance. Now here the � of it on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t3cva5/destroyed_t90/

watch it and then come and explain to me how the T-72 you claimed it was has a SHOART

gamechanger547:
I have given you facts but it's like you're bent over believing what you want to believe.

Russia is dealing with your Ukraine and it's ok for you to feel bad about it.

Posting T72 as T90 won't win you the war even if you turn yourself to Azov battalion commander.

Don't know what you don't understand! You guys posted T72 as T90 of which eg the same one you guys posted with Z sign close to the destroyed building is posted on Google image as T72!

Russia gives vivid account of what they hit, Equipment, building, weapons, location etc but what do Ukraine do? recycle fake pictures and few automatic ones over and over again.

They even posted a picture of Russia space rocket been pulled with a tractor by an Ukraine farmer.

You people have been bursted why not move on rather than keep trying to force me to accept your propaganda?

Why is Ukraine not dishing out info of Russians they claimed to have killed or captured?

It should be around 300,000 now abi!

Ukraine have at least 44,000 fighters in Donbass and they're still losing ground. ( The US is encouraging them to keep fighting instead of surrendering).


IQ really matters!!

you talk too much.. IQ matters then answer the question. Which tank body is the T-90 base on?

Russia top of the line attack helicopter, Ka-52 Alligator was downed using an Anti-tank missile. Do you know how silly that is. It's supposed to have laser and missile lock warning system yet that didn't happen.

Their precious Su-35, again top of the line 4++ gen fighter jet was hit with a stinger missile.

And you're here saying there in no T-90 in Ukraine.

FYI, the T-90 sort of resembles the T-72 but it's upgraded and those upgrade are unique and can't be mistaken.

You don't even know simple something. You are here moving in all direction.

As long as Kyiv is still standing then Ukraine is still in the fight, that's the basic rule in war fare, take the capital and win the war, anything else is in between.

Go educate yourself more bro

Krismas:
When I typed that reply, I didn’t realize MBS had actually gone to Beijing to negotiate a petroYaun deal U are the only one left clinging to d dollar

and that is news to you?

then you don't have any idea about US international relationships, it's not always smooth sailing but they know the tent they sleep at night.

Keep watching the news, when the dollar is actually being threatened. US will go to war so for now it's not except to you that's on the other side that jump at every little thing anti-west

Igbofam:
They are all confused and busy contradicting themselves

Russia is lucky they haven't brought their Su-57 into the fight. Ukraine for use stinger and Starstreak unmask its stealth.

gamechanger547:
Stop being a dingbat!!!! Go crosscheck facts from fiction.

Mouth breathers can't separate facts from fiction, so don't be like them.

What was posted there were T72 tanks; you can even find some on Google image posts of T72 tanks.

Ukraine and western medias have posted lots of images of destroyed and captured weapons only to be proven by propaganda burst podcast and other medias as fake.

Let me calm you down a little; Ukraine is trying with Western support and military intelligence especially that of US but most stuffs they put out are fake while some are true. But in this case, it's T72.

I grew up amongst Military people ( The army and Air force) and some went to become Generals before retirement and I got juniors and friends who are red necks in the Army, Air force and Navy.( Several of whom trained in the UK and USSR way back)

I used to be like most people who think the US and the west are far more powerful than Russia till I sat with them in a closed office and they enlightened me of what they saw when they trained in those countries. ( Several of them got training in more than 2 countries as they were specialist)

Won't say more.

simple question wey I ask you... you dey tell me story about your virtual life.

Facts is the javelin took out a T-90. if you like be the whole army yourself. Fact is fact

gamechanger547:
The below is just one of the types of T72 tanks out there.

compare to turret to the one you posted.

However the below are various specs available and currently operated by different countries in the world.

T72 is different from T90 and because some posted a tank as T90 do not make it one.

Current operators
Algeria – 500 T-72, T-72M, T-72M1 and T-72AG (last generation)
Angola [3] – 44 T-72M1 bought from Belarus in 1999[4]
Armenia – 84 T-72B
Azerbaijan – ~572 T-72A, T-72B and T-72 SIM2
Belarus – 446 T-72B in service. [5] Various T-72 modifications in reserve. [6]
Bulgaria – 80 T-72M2 and a large number (some 350) in reserve.[7]
Czech Republic – 543 inherited from former Czechoslovakia in 1993. 30 modernized T-72M4CZ in service as of 1 January 2016, 86 T-72M1 in storage.
Democratic Republic of the Congo – 100 T-72AV delivered by Ukraine in 2010. [8]
Djibouti – 42 bought from Yemen.
Ethiopia – 50 bought from Yemen, 171 T-72UA1 vehicles reportedly ordered from Ukraine in 2011. [9]
Tigray Defense Forces[10]
Georgia – 50 T-72A and T-72M1 in 2004. 140 T-72A, T-72M1 and T-72B in 2005. 170 T-72M1, T-72B and T-72 SIM-1 in 2007. [11] Approximately 191 T-72 in 2008. [12]
Hungary – 195 T-72M and T-72M1 in 2009. [13] 15 in active service, 113 in reserve, 77 donated to new Iraqi Army . Hungary announced it ordered 44 Leopard 2A7+ tanks from Germany, which are to replace the T-72 in the 2020s. [14][15]
India – 1,900 T-72M and T-72M1 as of 2008 [16]
Iran – 480-540 T-72S and 140-300 T-72M1 as of 2021. 100+ T-72M captured during the Iran–Iraq War, licensed production still underway as seen in Iranian factories. Numerous upgraded models. Many T-72M's upgraded to Rakhsh standard.
Iraq – 1,000 T-72 Ural (1973), T-72 Ural
modernization, T-72M, T-72M1 and Saddam tanks were in service with Iraqi Army in 1990. 375 T-72 Ural (1973), T-72 Ural
modernization, T-72M, T-72M1, Lion of Babylon and Saddam tanks were in service with Iraqi Regular Army in 2003. Only 125 T-72M1 are in service as of 2009 with the
new Iraqi Army. Some T-72S MBTs in service with the PMF. [17] Some T-72s have been upgraded and modernized by Iran with Rakhsh kits. [18]
Kazakhstan – 300 [19]
Kenya – 77 T-72AV from Ukraine in 2007. 33 delivered in Feb 2009 may bring total to 110.
Kyrgyzstan – 215 [20]
Laos – T-72B1 [21][22][23][24]
Libya – 150 in 2003[13]
Malaysia – 48 PT-91M delivered by Poland (improved Polish PT-91 , which is itself an improved variant of the T-72M1) [25]
Morocco – 148: 136 T-72B and 12 T-72BK from Belarus delivered in two shipments, first in 1999 and the second in 2000. [26][27]
Mongolia – 100 [28][29][30]
Myanmar – 139 T-72S. [31]
Nicaragua – 50 T-72B tanks.[32][33] Initial photographs suggest the tanks are substantially upgraded with elements from the T-72B3M program as well as numerous other improvements.
Nigeria [3] – 77+ T-72M1 maybe in larger numbers.
North Korea
North Macedonia – 31: 30 T-72A and 1 T-72AK delivered from Russia in 2000. [34]
Poland – 586 T-72M1 and T-72M1D [35] (2006, 2007 – 597, [36] 2005 – 644, 2004 – 649 [37] ) and 135 T-72M1Z [35][38] (T-72M1 upgraded to PT-91 standard). Also 230 PT-91 in service.
Russia – (active): ~2,284, 155 T-72BM "Rogatka", 8,000 in reserve. [39] 270 T-72B3 received in 2013. [40] Additional 143 T-72B

Why don't you just do simple research instead of showing your ignorance.
The T-90 was built base on which tanks body?

You dey here dey go off point

Appleyard:
Those weapons are real, not propanganda, as you would want to believe. Most have been tested in this conflict but has not been used predominantly.

The S-400 for example proved it's capability when the S-400 anti-aircraft missile deployed in Belarus directly shoot down a Ukrainian Su-27 fighter jet over Kyiv at a distance of 150 kilometers and a huge meteor shower appeared over Kyiv. It created a new long-distance record for shooting down enemy aircraft in actual combat by anti-aircraft missiles.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/russia-s-s-400-missile-system-gains-first-blood-in-ukraine-su-27-shot-down-150km-away-reports

The Russians can detect stealth, that is the main reason Turkey jettisoned the F-35 and instead opted for the S-400 due to what they saw happened in Syria. So the Harpoons are hardly a threat in that regard.

Why I would have loved to see more of these weapons being used, I also want this war to end quickly before it escalate out of hand. Moreover, there are talks that the US and NATO have sent covert guys over to Ukraine to study Russian war secrets. Who knows? Maybe that's why the Russians are hesitant to use some of their modern weapons predominantly. Whatever, war is bad.

alaye.. Turkey jettisoned F-35 for S-400.. Guy! if you no lie you go die?
Just asking for friend.

Russia can detect stealth.. Na so
una go dey hype hype hype... small missile, e go fall hand. una go come dey run around dey find cover story to explain why

S-400 is crap. Quote me anytime anywhere. Until it has proven its capabilities in a combat environment. Then it doesn't deserve a mention

PerfectlyPerfect:
[sup][/sup]
That's why the future of warfare is missiles and not huge ships. A billion-dollar aircraft carrier can be sunk by a missile of less than $200k

just change your loud supply.
You think say you sink aircraft carrier na ABC abi

Krismas:
U need to come to terms with reality that the world nolonger revolves around America. China sells 3times more to America than she buys from America. China buys more from ASEAN self more than to America. China is currently a significant commerce house, which the other members of BRICS can completely rely on as if the United States were dead. Iranians started oil deals in local currencies. Russia have joined, soon no one will need the dollar anymore

you mean iran oil that are sold in secrecy..
Dude where do you get your 411 from. Change your loud supply abeg.

Themandator:
Before now, whenever any military issue was raised here I have alway states it that humans not machine win wars... You can have all the armada in the US army and still lose the war if you don't have real men


Example I always cite is Israel that shit down five Russian MiG jet in three minutes through the proper use of their brain

Read what the Ukrainians did here, they distracted the war ship using cheap drones then hammered it to the ground

Thinkers win war not machins

you don't seems to grab the idea.. if a drone can distract a defense system that's meant to track up to 30 projectiles and destroy them. what does that tell you?

Appleyard:
T-90 used in Ukraine are small compared to the T-72. Moreover, the T-90 has versions.

can you inform the other guy since he said there was no T-90 in Ukraine

HBB1:
Ogbeni calm down!

No Tank is indestructible...

Basic rule is a Tank should not roll out without at least infantry support

This the Russians flouted again and again and they got punished.

Enemies can peek out from odd angles and have a pop at you.

Don't fighter jets have anti-missile defense mechanisms?
Don't they get shot down?

Didn't Hezbollah destroy scores of Israeli Merkava Tanks in 2006?
( So what is special about your Israeli made and manufactured system)

You realize we are not talking about RPGs here...

The Javelin will cut through your aforementioned Tanks and cook those inside.

1) I never said there's a tank that isn't destructible.

2) You're talking about something in 2006 when that system wasn't even created and it's not even install in all the tanks. I mean my first post even mention 2024 for the Leopard tanks

una ehn if you didn't know something, take the knowledge and go. No dey try to prove stupid point that doesn't make sense in the first place.

3) we're talking about tanks that are armored and you're mentioning RPGs? Like don't you know tanks are immuned to that except you can target their track chain and disable them.

At this point I'm done talking because clearly you don't even know what you're saying

Igbofam:
Help your ignorance

hahaha... bro you for no answer that free data Ctrl C + P guy

Krismas:
China is soon to overtake the United States as the largest economy in the world, yet BRICS is nothing? Be deceiving urself. The countries in BRICS have been comfortably exchanging goods and services in their own currencies since. Russia has been selling oil in rubbles since last month. RIP Dollars

it wouldn't be you if you don't completely miss the point and write about something else.

what's China trade volume with Brazil, South Africa, Russia and India, then compare that with China trade volume with the US. that's what I asked and you're talking about a scenario that isn't real just speculation.

Russia sells oils to India is RIP dollars, compare oil market volume in alternative currency with the overall international market then maybe just maybe you'll understand better.

E get why most currencies is pegged against the Dollar.

HBB1:
...and they will withstand the Javelin?

Bullshit!

Procure the javelin and then proceed to shoot it at the Abrams tank.
Since America and Europe would be stupid and mad to mount an AMD on a tank just for show despite the added weight it brings

gamechanger547:
Post the pictures or videos of the T90 tanks destroyed as what was posted by Ukraine were T72 tanks!

You people tend to post over 90% what can't be confirmed while I do copy and paste actual news for people like you to verify and what I actually know about.

I verify information from various medias before posting the confirmed ones not someone just making something up to swipe their ego.

Most of you were not even born during the Soviet union days but will post comments that are totally false.

We know how Afghanistan war started and watched the Russians cross back from Afghanistan into Russia way back.

you verify information from various media and you're waiting for me to post pictures of the T-90.

your data finish? Find it yourself. I'm not hoarding the internet. E go show for your phone too

Krismas:
For now its in Dollars. BUT it may not remain so for long. That’s wot BRICS is trying to change. Eventually dumping the dollar

all those countries have foreign reserve in another currency. Majority in Dollars. They trade internationally where most trades are done in dollars.

Combine trade between the BRICS bloc and you won't even shake the international market scene and you're talking a out dumping the dollar..

It's how you guys now have love for India because they are buying Russia oil for me.

Maybe it would interest you to know that most of India indigenous military manufacturing has western tech than Russian as India is reducing Russia influence in its military

Krismas:
I just wanted to feed u wit ur regular feeding bottle CNN I didn’t say I believed it. I was standing in the bank yesterday wen their TV showed CNN quoting Pentagon confirming ONE EXPLOSION on Moskva. That’s why I asked u, HOW CAN TWO MISSILES CAUSE ONE EXPLOSION?

oga fidget ... nothing you can't spin.

There was an explosion, that's the official stand from Pentagon. You can read it up. only that they refused to say what caused the explosion but there was an explosion and Moscow was badly damaged.

So it went down to chill with the big sharks

Krismas:
And one Zombie likes ur comment? Chai! Why do u keep money in the bank? Its cos anytime u want it u will get it. By the time the bank start confiscating ur money or u can no longer trust the bank to save keep ur money. Then u WILL STOP BANKING IT. Simple

India foreign reserve is in what currency?

una too dey like long talk

Krismas:
Moskva is a flagship not a capital ship. Ukraine said they fired two missiles but Pentagon confirmed one explosion on Moskva. How can two missiles cause just one explosion?

wonders shall never end.. So Pentagon isn't western propaganda anymore now you're looking for scraps to defend your stand.

Again the official report is that there was an explosion but they can't confirm the source (whether it was missiles strike or fire outbreak).
No dey twist narrative, we all have this Internet. it's not exclusive to you