₦airaland Forum

@Expanse2020
Save yourself the trouble. You cannot inform those with closed minds.
He quoted a hadith he himself doesn't understand. Isa a.s reported to judge mankind as a just ruler makes one ponder if the hereafter is a place where mankind will be under rulership.

His/their questions are rhetoric and not seeking answers. It all play and jesting about what they don't understand and take out of context.

TenQ:
No sir

It is because you rarely answer direct questions. You would rather say every other thing instead of responding to the issues at stake.

Christian love involves doing everything that a decieved person doesn't finally enter hell fire. Thus, we speak the truth in love whether the person desires it or not.


As we speak, I'm sure you see the limitations of your deen even though you are still obstinate with Allah and his prophet.

When you know the truth and Adopt it, the same truth with set you free!

I wish you the best of the coming year.

Thank you

Interesting that you ask questions and have fixed answers or mode of answers. Does this not answer your questions?

ReExplore2xmore:
So all this talk is to understand how
1. A physical/spiritual journey was made to paradise on a very fast creature

2. Conversations was made with prophets of former times yet your Bible has a report of Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah though the witnesses had no conversation with them.

3. Prophet Muhammad emphasised that the individual destiny of babies/children are known to Allah and not man.
If we all know our destiny why do we pray and work towards desired goals? Does the hadith not say per adventure? Is this a definitive statement?

4. Gospel of John says Jesus says God is a spirit. Which other Gospel has Jesus say this?
Which other prophet says God is a spirit?

5. Angels are referred to as spiritual beings.
You also know ruh means inspiration and the Quran is referred to as ruh amin amrina? By this then the Quran too is a spirit?

6. When you say there is a physical realm and spiritual realm how then can't you understand the meeting of the spirits of the prophets?

Or is it because I specifically ask for where you actually first asked on hadith 3207 that you seem not to see my answer.


In any case you have concisely agreed that we don't worship the same thing so as you are very well aware Surah 109 has addressed whatever differences.

And
1 Thessalonians 4:10-12 Indeed, you already show your love for all the believers throughout Macedonia. Even so, dear brothers and sisters, we urge you to love them even more. Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before. Then people who are not Christians will respect the way you live, and you will not need to depend on others.

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honor for a person to cease from strife, but every fool quarrels.

Best wishes! Trust you enjoy the holisays, seasons and days to come in peace.

TenQ:
AGAIN

ReExplore2xmore

I asked:
Your prophet says that babies born of Muslim parents can go to hell!
If they are pure, how can they go to hell?

Of course your prophet explained it as the DESTINY of Allah.
Sahih Muslim 2662 c
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said:
Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because God created for Paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins.



Your proof and of course you should know by now that we don't worship the same God.

Jesus said to us:
John 4:24:
" God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."


Unfortunately, you don't even know what a spirit is: do you?

A definite pointer that what Christians conceptualize as God is markedly different from Allah is the story that Jacob wrestled physically with him.

How lowly must this omnipotence of the Christian God be that his creation; mankind, can wrestle physically with him for a full night?

This story is described in Genesis 32:22-32 unless you state that it is falsehood or a misconception of the older generation.

In verse 25 when the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

And 31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,and he was limping because of his hip.
(Invariably Jacob limped for the rest of his life)
32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.

Jesus is reported to have said, "God is a spirit" in the book of John (4:24). This statement has led to some debate and discussion among theologians and believers about the nature of God and whether it limits God to being a spirit. In this essay, I will explore this question and consider how the belief in God as a spirit influences our understanding of God's nature.

The statement "God is a spirit" is found in the context of a conversation between Jesus and a Samaritan woman at a well. The woman was asking Jesus about the proper place to worship, and Jesus responded by telling her that God is seeking worshipers who will worship in spirit and truth. He then stated, "God is a spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

The Bible uses various terms and metaphors to describe God, and it is through these diverse expressions that we can gain a fuller understanding of God's nature. For example, God is also described as a consuming fire (Deuteronomy 4:24), a rock (Deuteronomy 32:4), and a shepherd (Psalm 23:1).

Tell me is a Spirit the same as Fire and a shepherd?

Is limiting God to being a spirit not an oversimplification of God's nature. God's essence and being go beyond being just a spirit and cannot be confined to any one type or form.

There are different types of beings which Allah has given life to in his majesty.

Angels though incapable of sin will all die and be judged as all other things created by Allah.

Does the undying nature of Allah at any point not show you a difference and the different types of spirit he created?

Angels are referred to as spirit yes. Moreso that they are not usually seen though they are around

Muhammad pbuh is properly saying that Allah is in the sole position to know where the eternity of everything he creates will be.

How Muhammad is able to meet other prophets on his journal and pray with them is a miracle of Allah unless you now choose to determine for Allah how and what miracles he performs.

Allah; there is nothing comparable unto him in his uniqueness and grandeur.

Where is the spirit of holiness and truth reserved for God and he bestows elements of this on his creation.

You say the conversation of Jesus with Elijah and Moses was not for the companions who by your Bible had slept off then how then is it reported in Luke that
30 Then two men, Moses and Elijah,[c] were talking with Jesus.
31 They appeared in heavenly glory, talking about his departure which he would soon bring about in Jerusalem.

Are you speaking with reduced certainty?

TenQ:
All these to escape answering my questions!?

Why do you enjoy wallowing in your self deceit and self deception?

You could have opened up another thread on Fitrah and this would be understandable.

Again sir:

Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


Stop playing games with me sir. You are deliberately avoiding answering my questions to escape the trap caused by the multiplicaty of Web of lies Islam has spurn for you.
Once you answer my questions I've been asking you, you will see the inconsistencies

1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?


Now, you are confused.
Did you not quote

Quran 7:11;
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.

And asked a question :


Again, Is the Soul (in the first part of Qur'an 7:11) YOU?

You wouldn't answer as usual.


How would you understand my answer if you can't even answer what a spirit is?

Again:
a. What is a Spirit?
If you do not know what a spirit is, how can you understand that Jesus IS a Spirit

b. Is the breath of Allah spirit?
c. Is Jibril a spirit?

As usual, I expect you to evade this questions.


I have maintained this:
According to the Qur'an, Jesus is a Co-Creator with Allah. It doesn't matter if it was by Allah's permission or not.

Is it true that: Jesus created from mud a bird and Jesus breathe (not Allah) into it and the mud came to life as a bird

In the whole universe, can you tell me just ONE person who created even a fly in addition to what Allah created?


Again, Quran 7:172-173 is true only if you concur that humans exist fully before they physically come into existence.
Again, is a human being a trinity/duality according to Islam?



You refused to answer my question as I never asked if the Narrative in 4712 and 7440 spoke about the future or not.

Again :


1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?




Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


To avoid controversy :

Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440

Could you elucidate on what you mean by There is an error noted and corrected.

Error by who and where?
What does Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 say?

So all this talk is to understand how
1. A physical/spiritual journey was made to paradise on a very fast creature

2. Conversations was made with prophets of former times yet your Bible has a report of Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah though the witnesses had no conversation with them.

3. Prophet Muhammad emphasised that the individual destiny of babies/children are known to Allah and not man.
If we all know our destiny why do we pray and work towards desired goals? Does the hadith not say per adventure? Is this a definitive statement?

4. Gospel of John says Jesus says God is a spirit. Which other Gospel has Jesus say this?
Which other prophet says God is a spirit?

5. Angels are referred to as spiritual beings.
You also know ruh means inspiration and the Quran is referred to as ruh amin amrina? By this then the Quran too is a spirit?

6. When you say there is a physical realm and spiritual realm how then can't you understand the meeting of the spirits of the prophets?

TenQ:
If you had answered a direct question, it wouldn't come to this.

I didn't ask you if tge hadiths are truly stated, I asked you if the two hadiths are True!

A lie can be truly stated and it doesn't make the statement true.


Are the two hadiths
Sahih al-Bukhari 3207
and
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308 true?

I say these hadith are truly stated and as far as hadith go they are true. What is your point about them?

TenQ:
Just see yourself.

You were asked At least three questions :

1. Why did Allah say Jesus is a SPIRIT: is he Jibril?
2. Your prophet says that babies born of Muslim parents can go to hell!
If they are pure, how can they go to hell?
3. Is it true that Jesus (and his mother) was the only one untouched by satan?


Look again at your response and tell me which of the questions correlate with your response

Well maybe if you don't mix up your questions with other narrations it will be easier to answer and keep track.

The Quran 2:97 says Jibril is a spirit also it's written “And We gave ‘Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibril (Gabriel).] [Q2:87]

Jibril is also a messanger and brought down the Quran.

Jibril is an Angel with 600 wings.

Jibril was created or wasn't he?

Is Jibril also Jesus going by your view about spirits?

Are there different types of spirit? There is the spirit of truth and the spirit of holiness in Islam.
Which one is Jesus?

2. I don't know about this more so that there are divergent opinions. Perharps you can inform me?

3. As stated by a hadith, yes.

TenQ:
You have just told me that you know little about the Spirit. Can I teach you?

God is a Spirit and the Creator of All spirits. Angels are Spirits, Demons are Spirits, Satan is a spirit.
Of course, even though you know little, you will block your ears to learning.

Let me thus come from your level :
Can you concur that Jibril is a spirit?

I don't agree that God is a spirit but agree he created/creates spirits. Provide proof that God is a spirit well maybe the Christian God.

TenQ:
Is a spirit a living representation of a person or just an attribute?



I have not asked you yet about the trinity.
If you have little understanding of the Spirit, how can you at the same time claim knowledge about it.?

Have you seen a spirit before? Perharps one that has come to you to represent someone who isn't physically present? Do make this make sense.


Representation is the description or portrayal of someone or something in a particular way.

Attribute is a quality or feature regarded as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something.

All living things carry a Spirit that is breathed into them by God All mighty. When we die, the spirit is returned to God All Mighty. Jesus Christ Peace be upon him is a great man who like all the Prophets before him are chosen by God all Mighty to deliver God's messages to the people.

The idea of Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God or a different manifestation of God on this planet is an adaptation from Greek-Roman mythology where gods had children and wives and other gods and goddesses and was never part of the Abrahamic faith.

Being alive, means you carry a part of God's Spirit within you, its the life energy that is reclaimed by God upon death.
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TenQ:
Why did Allah say Jesus is a SPIRIT: is he Jibril?




Your prophet says that babies born of Muslim parents can go to hell!
If they are pure, how can they go to hell?




You quote Qur'an 6:85 as if the contention was about the Purity of Jesus or John.
With your example of John the Baptist's example of sin, you have a point.

Only that according to your prophet, Satan touched John the Baptist as a baby but he couldn't touch both Mary and Jesus: this makes the Purity of Jesus above that of John.

Is it true that Jesus (and his mother) was the only one untouched by satan? This probably explains how Muslim babies can go to hell!

But can we report that your prophet is also pure or righteous?

Are you implying that the spirit is not a creation of Allah?

They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.

TenQ:
Why did Allah say Jesus is a SPIRIT: is he Jibril?




Your prophet says that babies born of Muslim parents can go to hell!
If they are pure, how can they go to hell?




You quote Qur'an 6:85 as if the contention was about the Purity of Jesus or John.
With your example of John the Baptist's example of sin, you have a point.

Only that according to your prophet, Satan touched John the Baptist as a baby but he couldn't touch both Mary and Jesus: this makes the Purity of Jesus above that of John.

Is it true that Jesus (and his mother) was the only one untouched by satan? This probably explains how Muslim babies can go to hell!

But can we report that your prophet is also pure or righteous?

Can you inform what difference it will make when you come in contact with Satan? Does Satan make attempts at all both child and adult or what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

That Mary wasn't touched by Satan so those who deify her are as right whp deify Jesus?

I honestly don't get it. Could you clearly and concisely make your point?

TenQ:
Are you sure these two hadiths are both true?

Stop repeating the same question and make your point. You rely on hadith a whole lot more than me and are some expert there so tell.

Yes the Hadith are rightly reported. What is the problem with them?

TenQ:
No problem!

Is this definition not okay for you?


My emphasis is that it makes no sense for the PURE boy in Jesus to be redundant as everyone is born pure. At the same time, no one can point to just one sin committed by Jesus Christ.


Why did Allah say Jesus is a SPIRIT: is he Jibril?

If Jesus is ordinary just like any other prophet,
Why is He the only one who creates life?
Why is He the only one who is not dead?
Why is He the only one without a Father?

You are jumbling many things together.
Is it a lie that all are born pure into the world?
Does the world inadvertently corrupt people?

Does the Quran in 19:13 say about John the Baptist that as well as purity and compassion from Us. And he was God-fearing

Does the Quran not group Zachary; John the Baptist and Jesus together as righteous?
(Q6:85) (And of his descendants We guided) Zakariya (Zachariah), Yahya (John), Isa (Jesus) and Ilyas (Elias): each one of them was of the righteous

Can you point to one sin of John the Baptist?

TenQ:
All these to escape answering my questions!?

Why do you enjoy wallowing in your self deceit and self deception?

You could have opened up another thread on Fitrah and this would be understandable.

Again sir:

Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


Stop playing games with me sir. You are deliberately avoiding answering my questions to escape the trap caused by the multiplicaty of Web of lies Islam has spurn for you.
Once you answer my questions I've been asking you, you will see the inconsistencies

1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?


Now, you are confused.
Did you not quote

Quran 7:11;
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.

And asked a question :


Again, Is the Soul (in the first part of Qur'an 7:11) YOU?

You wouldn't answer as usual.


How would you understand my answer if you can't even answer what a spirit is?

Again:
a. What is a Spirit?
If you do not know what a spirit is, how can you understand that Jesus IS a Spirit

b. Is the breath of Allah spirit?
c. Is Jibril a spirit?

As usual, I expect you to evade this questions.


I have maintained this:
According to the Qur'an, Jesus is a Co-Creator with Allah. It doesn't matter if it was by Allah's permission or not.

Is it true that: Jesus created from mud a bird and Jesus breathe (not Allah) into it and the mud came to life as a bird

In the whole universe, can you tell me just ONE person who created even a fly in addition to what Allah created?


Again, Quran 7:172-173 is true only if you concur that humans exist fully before they physically come into existence.
Again, is a human being a trinity/duality according to Islam?



You refused to answer my question as I never asked if the Narrative in 4712 and 7440 spoke about the future or not.

Again :


1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?




Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


To avoid controversy :

Lost my login details and created this.
So what you highlight in red about Hadith 3207, 4712 and 7440 is the question?

Kindly paste out these for a full understanding of what is asked.

Also you repeatedly refer to Quran 19:19 and talk about Fitrah. There's the need to clarify if this verse is what you refer to:


قَالَ إِنَّمَآ أَنَا۠ رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَٰمًا
"He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.""

Qaala innamaa ana rasoolu Rabbiki li ahaba laki ghulaaman zakiyyaa.

This verse contains nothing like fitrah and I point out to you that the original state all mankind is created is pure before they get corrupted.

I also point out to you that John the Baptist too is referred to as pure in Quran 19:13

وَحَنَانًا مِّن لَّدُنَّا وَزَكَٰوةً ۖ وَكَانَ تَقِيًّا
"And affection from Us and purity, and he was fearing of Allah"

Wa hanaanam mil ladunnaa wa zakaatanw wa kaana taqiyyaa