₦airaland Forum

Your arguments are unfortunately going downhill lately. You didn't do well here at all. Sorry.  

Please highlight what part of your link or paraphrase the part that says sexual intercourse with the animal will injure. I hope you realise Physically battery is different from sexual damage?

Animals hardly rape people - the people have more sense than to stand there. More often a zoophile sexually attacks an animal. The animal can be injured in the struggle, maybe too small for the activity, or may injure itself because of the way its head/neck/legs are tied. Even zoophiles don't want to get kicked or bitten! Point is, the animal can be damaged, whether through physical damage or sexual damage. Farmer won't be happy!

Sorry, what makes you sure they are not enjoying it?

Wrong. Animals only have sex when they are on heat - they are otherwise not interested. Different from human beings! Also, most non-domestic animals have access to the opposite sex, and can tell the difference between them and human beings.

You keep claiming the animals 'enjoy' it. Unless you have proof, or can refute my reasoning why they don't enjoy it, then what are you saying? As you're the one claiming they like it, you prove it! She you have tried it yourself?

My argument is on proof of naturality.

Wrong. That is your *feeling*. You have made no argument to prove that it is unnatural. I won't repeat why I believe it is natural - just read my past post, and actually try the links.

There is NOTHING that we do that is natural, that you will not find being done in the natural world (animals).

Wrong. I gave you a full list of things that humans naturally do that animals don't do. Anyway, you also said

We don't do something because animals do it.

Make up your mind, sah!

Homosexuals and bestials have an unnatural sexual desire.

Wrong. As before (which one concern gay men with randy dogs?), you are trying to link the two ideas although they are completely different. Read my past post. You don't like gay people - that's the only thing you have shown.


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=279591.msg3990475#msg3990475
Wrong twice! You linked to your similar rant on another thread, that similarly makes no valid point. On that same page, debosky #520, ILOCHUDI, Secretz and oyinda all easily dismantled your ramblings. Did you think I wouldn't read the thread? Even your criteria are nonsense: so because albinos/blind/crippled are rare, then they shouldn't have their rights? Then you brought up animals again. I tink sey we don agree sey person no be animal?

(Homosexuality) is a crime in most countries in the world.

Wrong-o-matic! It is a crime in approximately 74 countries. There are nearly 200 countries in the world. Of those 74 countries, around half allow for lesbians - because straight men find that exciting, abi? Hypocrisy.

If the West are optimistic and seeking a cure for paedophilia. I see no reason why the same should not be done for gays.

Wrong twice! the West (whose freedoms you despise anyway), are not optimistic about a cure for paedophilia. Show us where you saw this! What they do, is give them electric shock, or chemically castrate them. 'gays' (sic) are not the same in any way, except in your mind. Don't be so homophobic.

, homosexuality was universally (all countries) abhorant before the 60s

Wow. Wrong again. Try ko ma so facts, joo. Stick to the facts. In ancient times, homosexuality was open, in such civilisations as Rome, Greece, Persia and Egypt. Talk less of the less developed areas. It was the Abrahamic religions mostly that criminalised it gradually. Turkey decriminalised in 1858, Sweden in 1944, and even Thailand by 1956. Russia didn't make it illegal until 1930, and have had to do U-turn of course. Want more?

I can guarantee you that if you did a survey of gay approval in most western countries, MAJORITY will object to homosexuality.
You can guarantee nothing. How you go manage am? In any case, the majority in many Western countries is against immigration (although their economy might collapse), are in favour of death penalty, and they want both low taxes and good public services at the same time. The majority are often wrong.

Laughing, crying, logical thinking, reading and talking are examples of things natural for humans to do. Even though some are learnt, the question is: do animals do these things naturally or not? Please stop dodging the question, and answer it.

Let me get someone to sit Bawomolo down, tie him up and then force him to watch gay guys having intimacy and moaning. If he does not commit suicide within a week, he will lose his appetite for at least 6 months.

You might be right, I don't know for him. Apparently, you do! Suppose you are right? So what? Personally, I find it disgusting to watch people messily eating amala with okoro, or any 'drawing' soup. So if I see someone doing it, I turn my head. No be my mouth. In fact, I also find it disgusting to see another person doing a sh!t, even though I do it myself every day.

Believe me, I have read more than you.
Sorry, I don't believe you. Too many mistakes in your posts. Facts, terminology, spelling,  Nor have you addressed my points. Want a list?

As you actually are intelligent, unlike some primitive posters on this thread, I can only comment that your homophobia is blocking your brains.

@Sagamite. I will have more respect for you because at least you try to argue. You should be a bit worried to be on the same side as Astuto.

Is beastility hurting anybody if the animal enjoys the pleasure (which is the most likely scenario as they are not as reasonable as humans)?

Actually bestiality often does hurt the animal, as these zoophiles try to pick on smaller animals, rather than big animals that will wound them, or they tie up a big animal so securely that it wounds itself, breaks its leg etc trying to break free of rape. They ain't enjoying it, and they can't give consent. Its definitely disgusting, but it isn't even 'unnatural'. Everybody knows that a dog will hump your leg (the only place it can reach). Nobody is arguing for bestiality anyway, and it is not an analogy with being gay. Forget it. Your argument is that because bestiality is banned because it is disgusting, then being homosexual should also be banned because it is disgusting. No - you want homosexuality to be banned just because you don't agree with it. Being gay is neither a crime, nor a physical, nor a mental illness. That's why it can't be 'cured', and praying don't work. That's also why there are gay communities (open or secret), gay organisations, gay festivals, gay adverts even gay economy (pink dollar/pink pound).  There are no such things for incest or bestiality, and there never will be such. They can't be compared.

So is homosexuality a universal taboo.

Sorry-o, wrong number. You should know better than that. As you can see, agreement is not universal even on this Naija board, and many other cultures deal better with the issue than we do.

My argument is not that we follow what animals do.

There is NOTHING that we do that is natural, that you will not find being done in the natural world (animals).

You do know that these two statements contradict each other, right? Please choose one.

For gay animal behaviour please do some reading.

There is also lots of video available. Some males will have sex with each other even with females available. These include everything from giraffes to penguins. If you wouldn't believe your own eyes, I can't help you.

That isn't my point, as humans laugh, cry, anticipate consequences, invent, hide our unclothedness, do MouthAction, tell lies, commit suicide, cook, read, avoid incest, circumcise, have hymen, pray and do many other things that animals don't usually do. Homosexuality is normal for us, just not the majority of us.

Now you have given me the opportunity to blast you and your know-nothing babbling. Abi it dey pain you because I said you have made no point with any of your points? Yet you are still making no point, just insults.

Any argument can come up to defend trash.

That is what someone says when they have no answer to your points, and in fact, are not even knowledgeable about the subject being discussed. They feel frustrated because they cannot respond or destroy your points -> Damned fa*ggots!

Are u a fagg*ot  or are u just seeking attention?

If you have any single point, then make it, and stop distracting. In fact, respond to the points I made, if you can.

If you have been following this thread, you will see that I have been posting in it since the early pages, because it is a controversial subject across Africa, yet filled with misinformation. And it is damaging us. Europe and America are filled with gay Naijas and other Africans who have fled the country from fear and pain to somewhere where they can feel human. Many of these people are highly educated professionals, doctors, lecturers, engineers etc, who could be contributing something to Nigeria's development, just like me and you, well, maybe not like you,

Whether you find it disgusting or not, whether your religion is against it or not, being gay is natural, and has always been common around. Majority of people are straight, around 8-10% of people are not. Because they are so common, that's why change will come. Even within Naija, so many singers, actors, and even politicians are secretly gay. Married or unmarried. If you exposed all of them, you would see some surprising holes in the society. It can't be cured, and praying for change works about as well as it would praying for straight men not to follow women again.

Others will understand where wife-beating and killing twins comes in. You are the type of person who opposes progress, not because of any reason, but just by your own feelings. You would have opposed women's right not to be beaten, and claimed that society will collapse if twins are allowed to survive. I blame your father for your problem, because in 1975 he was the one spouting that only perverted women wanted to wear trouser, it is disgusting and against African culture, why do they want to bring out their 'thing' for people to see, Bible is against it, it's the Oyinbos fault, blah, blah.

Apart from talking wooden-headed nonsense that would make Yar'Adua laugh, arguing ad hominen, and not knowing anything about the subject, you are a liar too. Obviously you have no children, otherwise you won't be so quick to claim you would disown any gay child. True, some people do it, and they usually it. Are you actually as backward as that? Hopefully, your gay child will be the best out of your children (the others being stubborn, hate-filled and blind like their father), then we will see whether you will disown that child, or keep quiet about it.

I have some advice for you too: stop displaying your poor education in this thread. Insults are not argument.

I'm treating this thread as an interesting exercise in knowledge and logic vs ignorance and blind prejudice. It's amazing how stubborn the latter is before it realises the only point it has is 'I don't like it'. Abi your woman left you for another woman? Or did two guys start doing it together on top of your head? Or maybe you got thrown into Kirikiri for the crime of talking nonsense, and the hungry (straight) men inside there rushed your ass one-two,

If u r trying to suck up to the gays on this forum,

See your Freudian slip. Too funny. Self-hating gay wey dey hide for cupboard. Comot!

If you already know the issue exists, but it just annoys you, why are you coming to this thread to comment? You are still chatting with empty head about something you don't even know anything about.

This thread is about homosexuality per se. It is the anti-gays who keep introducing the issue of 'gay marriage' - like you. In fact, there is hardly any country that allows gay marriage. Some countries allow gay men and lesbians to enter a legal civil partnership, that gives them some (not all) of the rights that married couples have - like inheriting partners property, gaining partners joint employment benefits, tax benefits, joint custody of children etc. It is only uninformed media that started calling it 'gay marriage' as shorthand, and to frighten the uneducated and easily frightened.

Did you know that straight people too can do civil partnership? If for some reason, a heterosexual couple don't want to marry, they can still enter civil partnership, so if the man dies, his family can't come and tell his woman of 30 years standing that she has to 'pack out of his house, removing only her clothes'. In Yorubaland, they often do this, even if the woman has small children for the man. Not one of the best customs.

@astuto, the thread has attracted the attention of people who have better knowledge than you. You are so ignorant that you believe that anyone defending gay rights can only be gay. Twice on this page you have written five paras, and without making any single point past 'damned gays'. I hope your child turns out to be gay - we go see wetin you go do den. Actually, it is gay people who want the issue to be discussed, to correct misinformation.

Do you actually know how common gays and lesbians are? Look at the google adverts even just at the top of this page. Times will change. It is just like being left-handed - up to 10% of our people, and historically condemned by blind mugus like you. Why don't you go back to leaving twins and triplets in the bush, fetish trees hung with human parts, and killing children for being witches? Do you still beat your wife, the traditional husband's right? Don't you know that if you stop beating your wife, first your children, and then even the goats will say that you shouldn't cane them? When your great-great-great grandfather was worshipping his ancestors and the spirits, I'm sure he said that Ogun will punish these damned Christians spreading everywhere. In fact, better not send your daughter to school. It is not our tradition, and it will destroy society.

Props to you, Sagamite - no way I agree with you, but at least you are making some points.

Two consenting adults is not a weak argument. It is the main reason why sex between human and animal, adult and child will never be legal anywhere on earth, and the main reason why few people will publically advocate it. Not a good comparison.

As for incest, mother and son or sister and brother is as above, and also is a universal human taboo, rather than simply opinion. The reason for this is that it causes social disruption and any children that result have genetic problems, so we avoid it.

Nobody is arguing here to copy what the West does. In fact, the degree of incest varies according to culture. whereas a Nigerian will not marry his second or even third cousin, in Europe and Asia, even first cousins marry. I have seen this with my own eyes, (even though they never had children, because of the risks). Royalty in Europe traditionally marries royalty, over centuries. But they are all related to each other already, some of them related in several different ways. Still they marry.

I've read that homosexuality is common among bonobo monkeys and some other animals, but that isn't even my argument. It is this: We don't look at what animals do and don't do for our guidelines, are humans are different from the typical lower animals in several fundamental ways. If you had actually been following the thread, you would see that this has been discussed already:
link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-454615.256.html (post #281)

I'm sorry to post a shocking picture that is against people's culture, but to show that culture changes, I'm going to do it. Abeg, no curse me o!

Thank you for that comment bros, whether you support gay people or not. In that one statement you have made more sense than many commenters have made over the last 9 pages.

Anyone who no belief me - mek una read back di pages. Some people dey mek comment igerrant so tey I tink say na dem pikin help dem to even on the computa.

Most of your points contradict each other, are you ok?

intimacy is primarily for Reproduction

No, we also have intimacy as a way of bonding with our partner

Only Human beings have intimacy for entertainment,

True, but didn't you just say that is is for reproduction?

intimacy which isn't related to Relationship is absolute Madness,

As if men don't have s@x as one-night stand, women do it for money etc etc.

I am sure you support Paedophilia, they are moral defined,

[b]You [/b]might be sure, but we've already agreed that you don't know anything. You are sure I support paedophilia? Well, I am sure that a paedophile will catch your child. Idiot.
What does 'they are moral defined' even mean?

I'm telling you for the last time: you don't know how to argue, so stop trying. You're embarrassing yourself

As you depend only on your own unknowledgeable opinion, and hate facts, you make this too easy for me.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsglDXW34yo

The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its diagnostic list of mental disorders in 1973, despite substantial protest

Did you even watch the video?  The youtube link is actually destroying your argument - pointing out the inconsistencies.

It is NARTH saying that there was substantial protest in 1973. They would have more point by mention who that protest came from (Republicans and other conservatives most likely), and even better, they could check their opinion now, 37 years on.

I hope you are aware that NARTH is not objective? They are a well-known anti-gay organisation, so they won't mention the truth - that their efforts to 'cure' gays work about as well as 'curing' straight men and women. That is, not well at all. Also, NARTH are misleading about mental illness in gay men and women. They forget to mention that the main factor in gay mental illness is the pressure they are under to pretend otherwise, and the difficulty in living in societies where they are mindlessly hated and have to live under cover.

the Point is that it was a mistake

Who says so? the
American Psychiatric Association don't say so, and even NARTH aren't saying so. The only person saying so is you, and you've already shown that you don't know what you are talking about.

I dont have a problem with gay people

Please, stop lying.

Even among all religions we have people that pratice them just as people sleep with animals

You compare gay people with people that sleep with animals, and then you say you have no problem with them? There is no society on earth where bestiality is legal, and there never will be. Stop bringing red herrings.

we can also learn from nature and we can tell if something is out of the norm and ordinary

More unintelligent nonsense. Nobody looks to nature as the rule as tow what is right or wrong. Human beings are different from other animals in important ways.  In the majority of animals the males fight before mating - should we do so? Dogs will return to their own vomit to eat, and even climb their mothers and sisters - do you copy that? I hope not.

Things that we do, but animals don't: Even at twelve years old, a human child can expect help from the father, should we abandon this? A sick or old person gets help from their family and friends. Should we stop this, as animals don't do it? Only human beings menstruate, and have intimacy throughout the seasons of the year. You mean you don't go and meet your wife/husband because animals too don't do it? 

Your argument be like Primary 5 pikin. Comot. Mek una bring me beta person, wey fit mek point.

anjyzplace: Homosexualism is being Treated in some hospitals in some countries.

No it isn't. Don't talk cr@p and spread disinformation. Which hospitals in which countries are these?

Where this has been tried (e.g. in Europe in the 19th century), it was invariably unsuccessful. Not surprising, as being gay or lesbian is neither a physical or mental illness, even though you wish it to be. I'm sure you are still protesting over left-handed people.

@LeoMax

We are 2 species

.
No we are not, all human beings belong to one species.

Homosexuals regret at old age

Who told you that? More wishful thinking. FYI not all gay men practice @n@l sex, and lesbians almost never. Meantime, many straight men f*** their women in the @ss. Do they regret later? Not that I've ever heard. And unlike you, I know what I'm talking about. Go back to your village. Maybe some elders there will advise you to talk more about what you know and try using your mouth instead of leaving it to your own @ss to spout uninformed nonsense.

and imagine when our young men spend their days on homosexual websites making lewd and sexual comments with gay men eveyday? imagine what mental structuring that implies.

This is nothing to do with the gay men. It is to do with young men trying to make quick money through 419 (and dragging 9ja's name through the mud as usual), and the 'mental structuring' of our society that means that such young men can't find proper jobs to do.

Uh, the women are from which tribe that people keep referring to without even mentioning their name?

If both of your parents had decided or claimed to be wired as gays or lesbians, would you be hear to come and tell us all this rubbish

Actually, you are wrong. Again, you are showing your ignorance of the issue you are commenting on. Very many gay men and women have families and are parents, especially in Nigeria where they try to please their own parents and suppress their secret desires. That is ignoring the further issue of bisexuality.

In this thread, it seems the truth is out. Nigeria's problem is not just poor leadership, tribalism and greed, but also that even many of the 'educated' people are closed-minded, hatred-filled, misinformed bigots with no arguments (e.g. It's wrong, PERIOD.) no grasp of logic, and a selective over-reliance on what they read in the Old Testament.

Many of you claim to be in favour of progress, but in reality you only want the progress that will benefit you directly. Hypocrites.

Gay lifestyle is not going to affect your life, destroy your children or destroy society. Remember, it exists very well already. So why are so many of you so filled with bile?

I've attached a picture to this post. DO NOT click on it if you are easily offended. Abeg o!

Akin: It's disgusting, unbiblical, and satanic! Really, it's corrupting, and so much against our culture. The Europeans are trying to spoil our society with their nasty ideas, is it everything they do that we must copy? God will never let this be acceptable in our society.

Emeka: You don come again. What are you talking about now?

Akin: Those evil women who like to come out wearing trouser. In fact, people who practise this abomination should be killed,

Nobody has addressed the points I made a couple of pages back.

For newcomers to the thread, here's some of the 'logic' displayed so far:


shadrach77: it's demonic, it's unAfrican

DejiYesufu : it is a great evil

Wadosky: people that indulge in the act of homosexuality are agents of darkness,evil and people,churches,army,schools or governments that enact laws that favour it are bound to destruction

na2day! its a form of mental illness or should i say satanic possession

Funniest -
Babzilla: , but no, they must shove it down everyone's throats.

Funniest - runner up
isiegbe: I believe its becaus  we have not decided to legalize homosexual that we have not experience natural torture like earthquak and tsunami.

Too Much Herb Award
evalasthn: burn gay men dem!!!!!

Cutting Nose Award
~Bluetooth: If seun of nairaland happens to be a gay,i would quit his site asap to show the HATRED i have for homosexuality

Pointless
Medlabgirl: I hope you get hit by a BUS!

Logic failure
ChinenyeN: the only way I will take your consent argument seriously is if you show consistency with both incest and homosexuality

Humanity failure (summa cum laude): drossy, kponmo, evalasthn, eros
KILL THEM ALL!

@Madeyedgirl: Your reply just expresses raw hostility, while making no cogent point at all. You sound like one of those US Southern 'good ol' boys' back in the '60s, who on being told that Black people wanted the right to be considered equal to other people, and to be able to walk in town without being attacked etc, could not answer or make any point, but could only stand and splutter with hatred.

Why don't you try addressing some of my points, (if you are able to)? Actually, I suspect you didn't even read what I wrote*, like the old-skool Alabama white man, you just want to splutter with hatred, because you don't actually have anything reasonable to say.

What did a gay man or woman do to you? Please tell us, so that we can sympathise.

In fact, I would like all you rabid haters to try to respond to some of the points I made in my post above. Sorry it's long, but I had to respond to *a lot* of crap that was posted.

I hope none of you have gay offspring, because if you find out, then they will suffer at your hands.

@chukwudi44:
Actually, the RC Church has denied and hidden their paedophilia problem for hundreds of years up until very recently, so they get no credit there. What the Pope has said, is that it will no longer be tolerated, which I admire him for saying.

So far as gay people go, the Anglican Church did not 'shamelessly legalise homosexuality'. It has been legal in England since the 60s. The Anglican Church cannot affect the law in those countries where homosexuality is still illegal.

Exactly how did you manage to pack so much misinformation into only three lines? Perhaps you wrote guided only by your faith? Please try to remember that in an argument between faith and facts, faith usually loses.

Well, thanks for that, I actually didn't know all that Equatorial Trust Bank/Globalcom background. It doesn't surprise me at all though.

Have you ever noticed that in Naija culture there is a strong tendency to burn the small thief, and bow to the big thief? One of the things holding us back.

Henry46 +1. I'm not saying that only a Yoruba man would do this, but certainly it is a typical ostentatious Yoruba act, if true. Again, if true, it is his own money, and what he has chosen to do with his own money is directly export $2m of it straight out of the country, to where it can never return. Hasn't Nigeria got any decent musicians?

Ohsisi o!, you spoke well. Rastamann +1. I remember when women in Yorubaland hardly got divorced. First it started happening in Lagos, then it spread to smaller towns. What has caused this? Have Yoruba men suddenly started behaving worse? Have Yorubas suddenly abolished dowry or bride price? Are Igbo men that much better husbands than Yoruba men (I've heard that they are a bit better). No,  the real reason is increasing women's education, employment and organisation has opened their eyes, and they realise that sometimes it's better to be alone than have someone destroying your life, and making you unhappy every day. The more it happens, the more the stigma disappears. It was the stigma that was preventing desperate women from divorcing. It will also spread in Igboland. Not many women leave their husbands easily - they know very well that they will be poorer, and that the chances of remarriage are not too good in our society. Nobody wants to raise their children alone, and men don't like taking on other men's kids.

Any progressive change in 9ja society, backwards people start to cry 'one of those western vices introduced into mother africa'. In the case of marriage, you will notice that it is mostly men that will say that 'you shouldn't divorce, no matter what' or 'divorce should not be an option'. You are closed-eyed people, who have never noticed what many women go through even in an average marriage in Naija. Are you even adults? Not many women divorce just because of money - it's often that the man is spending money on something/someone else. Often women stay with a man, even though they meet his outside children. Most women don't divorce the first time their husband is drunk, or the first time he beats them. And there is a lot of other bad behaviour that can wear you down over years.

pres-elect: 'in the absence of wife battery, and perhaps infidelity, *any other thing can be tolerated*'. Do you know how ridiculous this statement is? So in the quoted case of the woman who only saw her husband twice a year, she should put up with it? Why? Few men or women are even nearly perfect, but ask yourself these questions:

on average,
* who behaves worse in a marriage, men or women?
* who chops something outside their marriage more often, men or women?
* in olden days, who had the main power to divorce, men or women?
* who is expected to forgive their spouse's bad behaviour most often, men or women?
* who can use money and/or authority as a weapon in a relationship most often, men or women?

now,
* who thinks more about the children, men or women?
* who loses more from divorce, men or women?
* who gets labelled 'divorcee' and takes the stigma, men or women?
* who is usually advised to resume their marriage, men or women?
* is the word 'promiscuous' usually applied to men or women?

Some of you commenters are such hypocrites - as men, you would never put up with bad treatment yourselves. Yeah, I mean you, cantell, munky etc. Do more women leave their husbands because of somebody outside, or do more men do it? I'm happy for those whose parents stayed together through thick and thin, but some people's situation is different, and they are better off out of it. Sometimes it is directly better for the children to live in a happy house with one parent rather than a tragic house with both parents. Don't use the kids as blackmail to keep a rotten marriage together.

The past was not a paradise, many people were just forced to live in misery. What you 'traditionalist' guys really mean is 'you women should shut up and put up with it'. Luckily, we are slowly leaving those days behind, and we ain't going back.