₦airaland Forum

Explore2xmore:
The Sanʿa manuscript is an essential piece for grasping how the early Qurʾān was transcribed and preserved. Its palimpsest nature shows a practical solution to the limited availability of parchment, rather than any theological disagreements. This common practice of erasing and rewriting over older texts doesn’t suggest that there were different versions of the scriptures; it simply highlights the logistical hurdles that early scribes faced.

Additionally, the differences observed in this manuscript, like variations in spelling, shouldn’t be confused with actual textual differences. Changes in spelling, word order, or missing diacritical marks were quite normal and didn’t change the meaning of the recitation. The later standardization through iʿjām and tashkil represents a move towards clarity, but it doesn’t mean there was any initial inconsistency in the message.

It’s also crucial to remember that the integrity of the Qurʾan has always been rooted in oral tradition. The dedicated memorization efforts by the sahabah and the Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh interactions with Jibrīl during Ramadan reinforce this oral tradition as fundamental.

Finally, even respected scholars like Michael Cook and Francois Deroche point out that while early manuscripts shed light on the preservation process, they don’t undermine the established consistency of the ʿUthmānic Qurʾān. Therefore, the Ṣanaa manuscript enriches our understanding rather than challenging core beliefs

Really, I thought Quran transmission and preservation is word for word.
The consensus on Sanaa manuscripts amongst scholars is not anonymous.

Explore2xmore:
Let’s closely look at the situation with Ibn Mas‘ūd, who initially had some objections that are often misunderstood.

His Main Concerns were that he felt left out of the conversation, especially given his status as a senior reciter.

He believed that his own personal mushaf, which he had written under the guidance of the Prophet, deserved a place in the final compilation.

He had some disagreements regarding a few surahs most notably, he didn’t include Surah al-Falaq and an-Nās.

Importantly, there’s no authentic hadith or historical record that states Ibn Mas‘ūd labeled the Uthmanic Mushaf as "corrupt" in terms of alteration or fabrication. That term tends to pop up in more contentious or revisionist discussions, rather than in the works of mainstream Islamic historians.

In the end, Ibn Mas‘ūd did come to accept the Uthmanic mushaf.

He ceased his objections once the Ummah came together around it.

You rather base your stance on the hadith regarding 70 surahs and label the remaining 44 as false? Please identity these surahs for better scrutiny.

There’s no evidence to suggest he promoted an alternative Qur'an.

Imam al-Nawawī noted:

“The correct view is that he (Ibn Mas‘ūd) withdrew his opposition and aligned with the consensus.”

After Uthman had him beaten and got his ribs broken? That sounds like intimidation and oppression- what gangsters will do to have their way.

Explore2xmore:
It will be most valuable and sincere if you can clearly state what constitute the serious disruption and manipulation with the Quran under the caliphate of Uthman.

A blanket statement without substance is of no value.

It's wasn't just Ibn Masud that disagreed, even Aisha called out Uthman with his biased compilation of the Quran.

According to Ibn Umar and Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, one chapter, Surah al-Ahzab had 200 verses in Muhammad’s time. Yet, once Uthman was finished only 73 verses remained, eliminating nearly 140 verses. This tradition is also confirmed by Ubay b. Kabb. (Al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan fii ulum al-Qur'an on nasikh wa mansukh and Darwaza’s al-Qur'an Al-Majid)

This is from your own Islamic sources not oriental or Christians.

Explore2xmore:
It will be most valuable and sincere if you can clearly state what constitute the serious disruption and manipulation with the Quran under the caliphate of Uthman.

A blanket statement without substance is of no value.

The Prophet Muhammad said: “The Koran was revealed in seven dialects, all of them are right and perfect.” When Uthman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned, he banned passages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the Messenger of Allah. He appointed a small group of Sahaba (close friends of Muhammad) to rewrite the Koran and left out those who heard the Prophet and memorized what he said. When Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uthman had him taken out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs. (Hussein, A-Fitnato Al-Kobra [The Great Sedition], pp. 160-161, 181-182)

These are your own Islamic sources providing historic evidence that there was serious disagreement amongst the Sahaba about what should constitute the Quran, they couldn't even agree.

The idea that preservation of the Qur'an can be traced to Muhammed is a lie. It's a claim not supported by your own Islamic narratives and sources.

TenQ is already justice with the textual variance of different Quranic manuscripts.

Explore2xmore:
It will be most valuable and sincere if you can clearly state what constitute the serious disruption and manipulation with the Quran under the caliphate of Uthman.

A blanket statement without substance is of no value.

One of the greatest reciters approved by Muhammed himself, Ibn Masud called the Quranic script compiled by Uthman a corrupt work and rightly rejected it.

When ibn Masud protested the burning of his own Quran he personally compiled, he was beaten, his ribs broken and thrown out of the mosque on the order of Uthman

Abdullah Ibn Masud said, “I recited from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs which I had perfected before Zaid Ibn Thabit had embraced Islam.” (The Codices of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubayy Ibn Ka'b, – Ibn Abi Dawud’s Kitab al-Masahif, p. 17)

“I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah?” ( Ibid., p. 15)

When Uthman's agents came to Kufa to burn all the variants, Abd Allah Ibn Masud hid his copy of Quran from them and told his followers to do the same. He justified his own version of the recitation by reminding people:

"I recited before Allah's Messenger more than seventy suras of the Qur'an. His Companions know that I have a better understanding of Allah's Book than they do; and if I were to know that someone had a better understanding than I have, I would have gone to him." It was said that nobody could find fault with Abd Allah's version
(Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 6022)

HacheNoire:
China is not obligated to open a production line in Nigeria. We have over 100 billionaires in Nigeria who can buy technology, engineering, resources and training. An enabling environment you create for investors to come in, such one that will guarantee them of profit.

My stance has been that, China is cheating anyone and only exploiting the foolishness of others which is acceptable in trade. The US and Europe did same to us when China was nothing. We bought everything there.

Remember, Tesla and Apple are not operating in the US despite the huge tax cuts they get. Amazon imports massively from China. You know why? Because labour is expensive in the US.

If Nigeria can get 200 million people to activity, do you even think Nigeria will be a favorable market for China to export to.

It’s our own lapses, not anyone’s fault. We still importing pencils, eraser and sharpeners. It’s not that we don’t have perps who can, but the country is not enabling.

The easiest which is farming is even risky, do we blame other countries for also flooding our market with consumables.

I can see you have your head in the sand. I even doubt U are truly Nigerian.

Without transfer of technology and skills,, no country can be competitive in manufacturing.

The west helped china to develop. China should help other smaller nations too.
Bye.

D1official:
Propaganda have no place in reality,check the list below...

*Top Trading Partners by Export Value (2024)*

- *1. United States*: $524.9 billion (14.7% of China's total exports)
- *2. Hong Kong*: $291.4 billion (8.1%)
- *3. Vietnam*: $161.8 billion (4.5%)
- *4. Japan*: $152 billion (4.3%)
- *5. South Korea*: $146.4 billion (4.1%)
- *6. India*: $120.5 billion (3.4%)
- *7. Russia*: $115.5 billion (3.2%)
- *8. Germany*: $107 billion (3%)
- *9. Malaysia*: $101.2 billion (2.8%)
- *10. Netherlands*: $91.1 billion (2.5%)
¹

*Top Trading Partners by Export Value (2023)*

- *1. United States*: $502 billion (14.8% of China's total exports)
- *2. Hong Kong*: $2764 billion (8.2%)
- *3. Japan*: $1576 billion (4.7%)
- *4. South Korea*: $1493 billion (4.4%)
- *5. Vietnam*: $1382 billion (4.1%)
- *6. India*: $1178 billion (3.5%)
- *7. Russia*: $1111 billion (3.3%)
- *8. Germany*: $1006 billion (3%)
- *9. Netherlands*: $1003 billion (3%)


I really do not think you guys know how big the US is , everything no be cho cho cho. China will crumble if they refuse to be humble. US have the cards because they are indeed the buyers with an obvious deficit.

The funny thing is most of those Chinese exports to Vietnam and Hong Kong are eventually bound for USA.
China has no doubt some well for itself. It's no a small feat to lift 800 million people out of poverty within 25 years and to become world's largest manufacturing within same time period.
But at this junction, china has to deal with it's overcapacity problem and allow other developing countries to have a firm grip of manufacturing.

Pushing your cheap goods to other countries won't help anyone.

The earliest Muslim reference to St. Paul is in the Sīra of Ibn Isḥāq(d. 767 CE), who identified him as a true prophet and one sent by Jesus to carry his message.
“Among those who Jesus the son of Mary sent from the apostles and the disciplines after them are Peter the Apostle and Paul with him. Paul was from among the disciples. They were sent to Rome.”

Al Ṭabarī [/b]as well as[b] Al Qurṭubī in their Tafsīrs all confirmed what Ibn Ishaq wrote about Paul - he's a true Prophet of Allah sent by the Messiah to spread the message of Allah.

Furthermore, Tārīkh al-Yaʿqūbī, one of the earliest Islamic sources on the history of the world written by Aḥmad al-Yaʿqūbī , an Abbasid-era historian described Paul as a true messenger of Allah who was initially a critic but converted and become passionate for the message of Allah. al-Yaqubi praised Paul and wrote only positive things about him.

Another early Islamic scholar, Wahb b. Munabbih, an early authority in ḥadīth; confirmed in his Tafsīr of al-Baghawī that Paul was one of the messengers sent to a community of disbelievers in Surah Yasin (36:14). Al-Baghawī identifies these “apostles” as messengers sent by Jesus to the city of Antioch.

Moreover, One of the earliest exegeses of Surah Yasin was by Muqātil b. Sulaymān (d. 767 CE), a Sunni and he reported that one of the messengers mention in the passage was Paul. The same account is reported by Ibn al-Jawzī in his Tafsīr .

As we can see, multiple highly rated early/ancient Islamic scholars all associated Surah 36.13-14 with Paul, a true messenger of Allah. This was when islamic scholars were honest about what they reported and their narrative wasn't influenced by interfaith polemics. They simply wrote down what they heard/received from earlier Islamic sources few decades away from the time of the Muhammed himself.

Attack on Paul started when interfaith polemics/dialogue became quite common around 13th century AD and Muslims realized something must be wrong somewhere with their Prophet's message.

Rather than look inward and confront the bitter truth, they did the opposite. Muslims realized for Quran to be true, bible has to be false and there has to be a scapegoat to be blamed for the discrepancies in both books.
To validate Islam, Muslims decided to remove Paul the apostle from their own list of true Prophets, a very dishonest act I must say.

DigitB:
The news gets to nl FP because we are divided into two groups: Pro Russians and Anti Russians.

Ok I get it now. I was even thinking it's anti-japa crew that pushed it to front page.

Qasim6:
Delulu galore

-Qur'an consider Paul of all people messanger of Allah.

Mr hadith rejector, since u have concluded that Ibn Kathir and all scholars who wrote the tafsirs are liars, and U know better; kindly tell us the 3 messengers Allah sent to the city on Surah 36.14

Thank U.

The way inconsequential UK news gets to nairaland front-page is nauseating.
What's Nigerian business with 7% energy increase in the UK. How does that affect us?

When UK increase driving licence fee or car tax fee, pls let us know.
Nonsense.

Modern Muslim polemicists involved in interfaith dialogue with Christians have made St. Paul of Tarsus the focus of their criticism. Paul is credited with the antinomianism and Christology that many modern Muslims decry. Modern day Muslims and apologetics takes joy in berating Paul the apostle by accusing him of changing the message of Jesus Christ.

While they cannot produce any single evidence to support this assertion either in the bible or historical documents, this has not stopped Muslim apologetics from wallowing in this fantasy of throwing dirt at Paul once they got stuck in any polemic argument.
In fact, its gotten so bad that some Muslims claim Paul wrote the gospel and corrupted the bible. In short, Paul has become the escape route of Muslims revisionist when they are cornered and desperate to wriggle themselves out of any argument.

But what is amazing is that Quran considers Paul the apostle from Tarsus a messenger of Allah. This is confirmed by tafsirs and there's evidence early Muslims close to the lifetime of Muhammed believed Paul to be a true Prophet of Allah.

In Surat 36.13-14 Allah says in the Quran And present to them an example: the people of the city, when the messengers came to it – When We sent to them two but they denied them, so We strengthened them with a third, and they said, “Indeed, we are messengers to you."


Tafsir of Ibn Kathir mentioned the names of these messengers as Simon Peter, John and Paul; and the city as Antioch.

(When We sent to them two Messengers, they denied them bothwink means, they hastened to disbelieve in them.
(so We reinforced them with a third,) means, `We supported and strengthened them with a third Messenger. ' Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shu`ayb Al-Jaba'i, "The names of the first two Messengers were Sham`un and Yuhanna, and the name of the third was Bulus, and the city was Antioch (Antakiyah).

(Paul is pronounced Bulus in arabic due to absence of P in the arabic language- B is substituted for P)

The tafsir goes further to confirm the disciples were sent by Messiah to preach to the people of the city.

(Verily, we have been sent to you as Messengers.) meaning, `from your Lord Who created you and Who commands you to worship Him Alone with no partners or associates.' This was the view of Abu Al-`Aliyah. Qatadah bin Di`amah claimed that they were messengers of the Messiah, peace be upon him, sent to the people of Antioch.


Now watch as dishonest Muslim apologetics will rush here and start ranting about some weak chains of transmission/unreliable science of hadeeth but what they will not tell you is that Ibn kathir wasn't the only ancient Muslim scholar who regard Paul as a true Prophet.

honesttalk21:
1. I didn't say it's o.k to call Allah father. There is definitely a misunderstanding in your perception of what is said.

2. I didn't claim that but indeed you and I's existence and ability to propagate is a miracle.

3. You tried to redefine not me without considering the multiplicity of the meaning of Abd. This I showed you or didn't I?

Did Zachariah a.s give his son a name or Allah had named his offspring before his birth?

Allah truly has many names. Some he has revealed to mankind and some he has withheld.

What name did God tell Zachariah to give his son. That's my question. No need for rhetoric
If you believe God is YWH, no need to answer the question.
But if not, then U need to have a open heart to see that your believe as a Muslim is based on very shallow and poor theology.

honesttalk21:
You better show me the things you say I fabricated first

1. Trying to say it's ok to call Allah father so long as it's metaphorical
2. Trying to claim baby in the fetus is a Koranic miracle.
3. Trying to redefine what slave of Allah meant.

Now a sweet the question.
What's the name zachariah gave his son when he was born.
U can ignore the above question if U accept God's name is YWH.

honesttalk21:
Expanse2020 don't let them drag you into apparently abusing an honoured prophet. That really must be their aim

Nobody is abusing anyone here. That I disagree with U doesn't mean I should disrespect u.
But that doesn't mean we should not say the truth and expose Fraud.
You Muslims have been doing that to Paul and we Christians didnt take it personal.

Help your friend close the case.

what name did Zachariah call his son when he was born. It's is a simple question.

Expanse2020:
Mumu
You forgot that the semantic language in the middle east are the Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic and now compare there pronunciation in their verb words if there are mere difference

Mumu be saying Oyo, Ibadan and Ogbomosho yoruba are much different in speaking

Hehehe🤣😆😅😂
Expanse has turned to linguistic expert in middle east Semitic languages.
Someone I doubt can even read an Arabic newspaper.

Mr Man answer my question. Tell us the name Zechariah called his son. That's what I want to know.

Mumu who has zero knowledge of ancient linguistic history.
During the time of Jesus, the common language in Judea was aramaic, most Jews couldn't speak Hebrew. They have to go to religious schools to learn Hebrew. That U could speak Aramaic doesn't automatically mean u will understand hebrew.....not to talk of one primitive desert language called Arabic.

Mr Man, Islam has been exposed as fraud. Tell us the name Zechariah called his son when he was born, say it loud and expose your false prophet.

honesttalk21:
What did I fabricate or forge? I see indeed that birds of a feather flock together.

Slaves of Allah
Medical miracle in the koran
Insisting ISA is Jesus when evidence prove contrary.

Anyway forget the above. Let's start on a clean slate.
I want to show u Islam lacks sound theology. The theology in the Koran is very poor.


Do U believe Allah's name is YAHWEH.

Expanse2020:
Why did you want to kill yourself is the christian bearing Yahaya

Why is a prophet of Allah bearing the name
'My Elohim is Yahweh'.

What's the name Zechariah gave his son. Pls note that they are Jews and speak no Arabic.
So what's the actual name of his son.

U think U smart, I go use u wash floor. U and that your false religion that lacks sound theology.

Expanse2020:
So helijah is helija in Arabic😂😂🤣🤣🤣 Arabic bà

In Islam Yahaya mean Allah is gracious or merciful
So don't mix lie together and if you consider the Jew Yahweh toor it's suite

But your Yahweh na idol OOO read more



History never lied🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣🤣
READ MORE FROM HERE

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahwism

I had Jesus was cursed from God too
Is it true

Abi this guy na imb.ecile.
Is Elijah or John the baptist Arabs
Are they Hebrew by birth or Arabs.
So if we want to find the meaning of their names, are we going to look into Hebrew etymology or Arab etymology.

Lots of yorubas bear bakare, busari, Hassan, Ahmed.
If we want to find the meaning of their names are we going to look into yoruba language?

Seriously U are a waste of time, U don't have what it takes to debate here.

Expanse2020
Incase U don't know...
Elijah mean My God is YAHWEH
and
Yahaya mean YAHWEH is merciful.

So the question is why are prophets of Allah bearing pagan names and why is Allah calling them by that such names.

I can imagine Allah calling the prophet ' My God is Yahweh'
expanse, how does that sound to U?

Walahi, Islam is a scam. The biggest conglomeration of zombies bound together by violence and intolerance, yet told they are slaves to their deity.

I keep saying it there's no theology in the Koran. None.

That's why intelligent Muslims like honesttalk are busy fabricating and forging theology for Islam because they know there's none.
Expanse2020 na mumu, he's too dull to do exegesis forgery for the Koran not to talk of theology.

Expanse2020:
Did you know Yahweh was a pagan God who consist of 3 in 1 God
Have you read about Zeus)Eassus

So U dont believe in YAHWEH? U don't believe God of the bible is Yahweh?
Is that what U saying ?

Do U believe in Elijah? He's called Ilyas in the Koran.

Expanse2020:
Tell me is the spirit also the same as the Angel

Ask your Koran,.do t ask me.
All answers I brought here were written by Muslims like u. No non Muslim co tributed.

All I want to know is why are Muslims generating different answers from the same thing in your Koran.....who is the holy spirit- we have 4 different answers.

Koran is a clear book indeed. 😂🤣😅😆

Expanse2020:
Eheneh tell me more there is holy spirit in Islam
I want to learn óò😂😂😂😂😂

Another one. Holy spirit is angel Gabriel.
Expanse is saying holy spirit is a pure soul.

That should be the 4th answer today. Who is right? Sunni, Shia,, suffi or expanse

TenQ won't U come to the rescue. The bloke I debating doesn't even know his own Koran. He's waste of valuable time.

At least honesttalk is trying, he attempts to formulate non existent theology in islam.
At least he's trying, honesttalk has read the Koran and knows that the theology in Koran is very poor...so he's trying to generate theology for Islam.

This expanse ma olodo. He knows nothing. Ordinary who is the holy spirit, he's struggling. What if I take him on bigger exegesis.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/14403

Expanse2020:
Where did you see holy spirit in Quran 😂😂😂😂😂
Tell me where you and the Sunni sat down and concluded that Jubril A.S is the holy spirit
And where you and Shiite sat and concluded that holy spirit is in the Quran
When you check Quran the second chapter, Your and you are looking for is there. You just need to read to acquire knowledge
Empty head🤣😂😂🤣🤣

Hehe😅😂🤣Confusion galore in the mosque...
Who will help solve the confusion. Who will settle the disagreement b4 they start stabbing themselves.

TenQ won't U volunteer and reveal to Muslims who holy spirit truly is. Since the so called clear book has only created more confusion.

Abi U go wait until they kill each other finish on top who got it right.
U know these Muslims don't joke with violence.

Expanse2020:
Where did you see holy spirit in Quran 😂😂😂😂😂
Tell me where you and the Sunni sat down and concluded that Jubril A.S is the holy spirit
And where you and Shiite sat and concluded that holy spirit is in the Quran
When you check Quran the second chapter, Your and you are looking for is there. You just need to read to acquire knowledge
Empty head🤣😂😂🤣🤣

Whereas Shia disagree that holy spirit is angel Gabriel. Holy spirit in the same koran, a supposed clear book giving 2 different answers.

In fact the Sufi Muslims has another meaning for holy spirit in the Koran. Those one call it the immortal self.

Hehe😅😂🤣Confusion galore in the mosque...
Who will help solve the confusion. Who will settle the disagreement b4 they start stabbing themselves.


https://slife.org/holy-spirit-in-islam/