₦airaland Forum

ElsonMorali

I want to believe you are an honest person that's why you have not yet responded to my post immediately above this one. Think about it, and pray about it. God will show you that my post above is true.

God bless you.

MrPresident1:
Who will take up this challenge?

Just one single verse to explain 'Rapture as a doctrine of mysterious disappearances'

Kingebukasblog, Scholar8200, Sisterme, Hydoxonium, Annyplenty, Analice107, Goshen360 I need enlightenment

Well I just did this for someone who came yapping against the rapture like MrPresident1. I will copy and paste here that answer word for word.

No problem my dear, leave rapture alone since it does not concern you at this point okay? But for the benefit of anyone else that might be tempted to question the Word of God like you I add this:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where did He go to prepare the place, on earth abi? Abeg abeg..just leave Martha for Mary.

From wikipedia, which has all the relevant reference:

List of apologies made by Pope John Paul II

Pope John Paul II on 12 August 1993 in Denver (Colorado)
Pope John Paul II made many apologies. During his long reign as Pope, he apologized to Jews, Galileo, women, people convicted by the Inquisition, Muslims killed by the Crusaders and almost everyone who had allegedly suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church over the years.[1] Even before he became the Pope, he was a prominent editor and supporter of initiatives like the Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops from 1965. As Pope, he officially made public apologies for over 100 of these wrongdoings, including:[2][3][4][5][6]

The legal process on the Italian scientist and philosopher Galileo Galilei, himself a devout Catholic, around 1633 (31 October 1992).[3][4][5][6][7]
Catholics' involvement with the African slave trade (9 August 1993).[3][4][5][6]
The Church's role in burnings at the stake and the religious wars that followed the Protestant Reformation (May 1995, in the Czech Republic).[3][4][5][6]
The injustices committed against women, the violation of women's rights and for the historical denigration of women (29 May 1995, in a "letter to women".[2][3][4][5][6]
The inactivity and silence of many Catholics during the Holocaust (16 March 1998).[3][4][5][8][9]
For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in Prague). When John Paul II visited Prague in 1990s, he requested experts in this matter "to define with greater clarity the position held by Jan Hus among the Church's reformers, and acknowledged that "independently of the theological convictions he defended, Hus cannot be denied integrity in his personal life and commitment to the nation's moral education." It was another step in building a bridge between Catholics and Protestants.[3][4][5][6]
For the sins of Catholics throughout the ages for violating "the rights of ethnic groups and peoples, and [for showing] contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". (12 March 2000, during a public Mass of Pardons).[3][4][5][6]
For the actions of the Crusader attack on Constantinople in 1204. To the Patriarch of Constantinople he said "Some memories are especially painful, and some events of the distant past have left deep wounds in the minds and hearts of people to this day. I am thinking of the disastrous sack of the imperial city of Constantinople, which was for so long the bastion of Christianity in the East. It is tragic that the assailants, who had set out to secure free access for Christians to the Holy Land, turned against their own brothers in the faith. The fact that they were Latin Christians fills Catholics with deep regret. How can we fail to see here the mysterium iniquitatis at work in the human heart?".[3][4][5][6]
On 20 November 2001, from a laptop in the Vatican, Pope John Paul II sent his first e-mail apologizing for the Catholic sex abuse cases, the Church-backed "Stolen Generations" of Aboriginal children in Australia, and to China for the behavior of Catholic missionaries in colonial times.[10]

An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded.

— Pope John Paul II [11]
In December 1999 at the request of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who would later become Pope Benedict XVI, the International Theological Commission presented its study on the topic Memory and Reconciliation: The Church and the Faults of the Past. The purpose of this document is "not to examine particular historical cases but rather to clarify the presuppositions that ground repentance for past faults." It examines repentance for past faults in the context of sociology, ecclesiology and theology.[12]

These apologies will not bring back the lives of these millions, will not bring back the life of Galileo, John Huss and so on. Till today, the canons that permit these killings are still there, and in a few months -years, will be used again.

Where did Jesus Christ ask his followers to kill non-followers?

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Who can deny that this "woman drunken with the blood of the saints" is Mystery Babylon, the Holy Roman Catholic Church? ElsonMorali?

TheSixthSense:
Madam you keep talking about rapture. Where did you see rapture in the bible? Christians have been persecuted since time immemorial and never believed the rapture until 19th century. You better stop spreading what you don't know.
The rapture doctrine was invented in regions that never experienced persecution. Keep waiting for the rapture. The persecuted christians up north are not even waiting for rapture, it's you that is in your comfort.

No problem my dear, leave rapture alone since it does not concern you at this point okay? But for the benefit of anyone else that might be tempted to question the Word of God like you I add this:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where did He go to prepare the place, on earth abi? Abeg abeg..just leave Martha for Mary.

ElsonMorali:
"Tested and known"? Tested by who? And known by who? Obviously where you expecting that once the Apostles died out Christianity should also die out too? The Tradition by word of mouth had to be passed on somehow right? So tell me, since you don't have that tradition passed on by word of mouth what for you have? Just Scriptures. Which as you'll agree with me is just one part If the word of God.

Peter WAS indeed the first Bishop of Rome. As a matter of fact he and Paul were both martyred in Rome. Please check your facts on this.

A little research on google will show you the list of all the popes right from Peter to the present one and the years in which they headed the Church.

You said the Church slid into apostasy. Oh is that so? And that Church that slid into apostasy gathered the other bishops together and prayerfully decided which books would be in the Canon of the Bible. The same Bible you carry around today. If that Church was in apostasy, then the Bible you're carrying is a collection of books whose inspiration we can never ascertain since a set of fallible Church leaders compiled it.

I'm even amazed that you'd think that Christ will allow his Church to fall into apostasy. In other words what you're saying is that Christ's words that the gates of hell shall never prevail against his Church is false.

If you insist that Peter wasnt the first Pope, then pray tell us who was the head of the Church when Christ ascended to heaven? There had to be a visible head.

"Roman Catholicism had the blood of millions on her hand" "killed other believers for hundred of years"

You know what amazes me? The fact that you find it easy to dismiss claims that an unbroken succession can be traced from the current Pope to the Apostles which is available online for everyone to check yet would believe unsubstantiated claims about millions of Christians being killed by the Roman Catholic Church.

Your own version of history was written by who? Oh, I could claim that the Church of England burnt millions and billions of people whom they accused of practicing witchcraft and yet all I can offer as proof is some book that claims it is so.

Fine let's admit that the Church did kill all these people for the sake of this discussion only, and that it isn't the true Church. I want you to point out which one is the true Church today among the billion of other sects and denomination that call themselves Christians. Remember that they all preach a variation of the truth and no two denomination preaches exactly the same thing and yet y'all read the Bible and claim inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

For there to be a legitimate Church founded by Christ on the Apostles, there must be an unbroken link stretching all the way from the Apostles till this present age. Because Jesus said he'll always be with the Church till the end of time. So which Church is it? Oh by the way, which denomination is yours?

Isorite....it is sad, but you will eventually find out that I was right. But I must add that your attempt to revise well documented historical killings by the Roman Catholic church which even the Pope has apologised for, is really shameful. It is a clear historical fact my dear. It is the reason people ran away from Europe to the New World, America. I can't believe you are denying this. Well Isorite, believe what you will.

ElsonMorali, I will attend to the below before I go back to the others:

Here is How 2 Thessalonian 2:15 puts it verbatim, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether WORD or by our EPISTLE". NOW compare that with your statement that tradition only means written. undecided What you don't seem to realise is that at that the time Paul was writing his letters, most of the New Testament books were not even written then. undecided

What the church was enjoined to stand fast in, was all that they had learned in word and epistle from "tested " and known apostles up until that time, NOT all the thousands of additions that the succession of Popes whose claim to legitimacy is a false interpretation of scripture, have written. The Bride of Christ is under no obligation to listen to the conflicting and contradictory (which does not seem to bother you) statements of the popes.

While we are at it, the popes are NOT successors of Apostle Peter. They were successors of the Bishop of the first church of Rome which slid into apostasy after Emperor Claudius drove out the jews who were the matured early leaders of the church for several years. When they came back, the Bishop of Rome refused to listen to correction and the First church Rome was left alone. It became politically powerful and began to persecute and kill other believers for hundreds of years. Surely you cant deny that Roman Catholicism and the Popes have the blood of millions of believers on their hands? Can you deny that? Did Christ ask the church to kill people?

ElsonMorali:
OK, I get it. You aren't interested in having a discussion, you just want an opportunity to throw mud against the wall and see what sticks.

I have asked three questions none of which you attempted to answer.

You only want to be able to tell me that I worship a false God right?

Well I'm sorry I won't engage in that online so I'll have cut this here.

Before I leave you though here are some statements of fact for your consideration If you can put aside your animosity and hatred for the Bride of Christ long enough to ponder them:

1. There was no Bible as we know it today 300years after Pentecost. Where all the early Christians condemned to hell because they didn't have the Bible to read? Who was for them the authority on truth? Their individual consciences or the Church?

2. Whatever "Church" you are attending now, can you trace it back in an unbroken lineage down to the apostles and early Christians? If not where and when did your Church spring up?

3. Do you know the history of the bible you carry around? Who compiled the books of the bible and when?

4. What proof do you have that the bible is the inspired word of God? And please dont go quoting some bible passage that tells us that the bible is inspired because

a. The books of the bible were written in different eras, sometimes even centuries apart.
b. That a book claims it is inspired doesnt make it inspired. The qoran claims inspiration from God, so does the book of Mormon.

And while you're fishing for the reason why you believe that the Bible is inspired dont tell us dome vague stuff like i was convicted by the Holy Spirit. That wont work either.

Neither would the claim that the prophesies of the Bible have to come to pass because not all the books in the Bible contain prophecies. (Oh btw, i believe the bible is inspired, but my reason is sure different from any you'll ever come up with.)

5. All you Protestants labour under the false assumption that Jesus wanted each of us to read the Bible and interpret ourselves, yet Jesus never mentioned the Bible anywhere in the Bible. (Lol).

6. If Jesus meant for us to interpret the Bible individually without the guidance of the Church, why then is "Christendom" so divided on the interpretation of the Bible? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is a spirit of confusion?

7. The Bible clearly states that the Churcb is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible. I guess you havent read the bible up to that point.

I was looking forward to a robust discussion with you, but you dont seem ready to engage me. You just wanna throw mud. So i dont expect to get a reply for the above. I just put them out there for any genuine truth seeker to ponder about and dig more.

Theres no doctrine of the Church that doesnt have a biblical basis. But you'll rather read the bible on your own and accept the interpretation of your pastor who probably attended 2weeks theology course and then founded his church, than accept the interpretation of a Church which has existed since the time of the apostles, has an unbroken succession of Popes right from Peter down toby he current one, (google is your friend) and whom Christ promised he will never leave until the end of the ages.

You can decide to tell me once again that the God I'm worshipping is a false God. I'll bet you didn't know that the father of Protestantism , Martin Luther once said that Jesus Christ comminted adultery 3 times. Do your research dear and don't believe everything your pastor by tells you about the Church.

It appears you did not read my answers to your first three questions. If you did, it would seem you did not comprehend my answers? Nevertheless, I will take the time later to answer your latest questions one by one.

ElsonMorali

I am sorry if I have cut the picture of hatred and animosity, that was not my intention. It was a knee-jerk reaction, and I am sorry. I will respond to your question (actually have been answering them?) shortly.

But I do want you to know that God can not speak one thing here and a contradicting thing there. Where you find such, one of the statements was not inspired by Him.

ElsonMorali:
I guess you think you're much more brilliant than an Institution that is 2000 years old right?

I just have a few questions pertaining to this If you'll answer them:

1. When Paul asked the Thessalonians to hold fast to Tradition they had given to them would you say he was confused too or what? You can check 2Thessalonians 2vs15

The traditions that they had received were written down in the epistles they read. Not new epistles from " untested" apostles.

2. Seems you don't read to understand. I didn't say that Tradition alone equals the word of God, neither did I say that Traditions and Scriptures necessarily have to be the same. I said you need both Scriptures and Tradition to have the complete Word of God.

A "god" who does not have sufficient power to cause his disciples to gender traditions that do not contradict the traditions that he had already caused to be written down and bound into a book is confused and is not worthy to be worshiped. Your "god" is different from the God of the New testament that said things which were written down that fulfilled statements the same God said hundreds of years earlier through his prophets. Except you are dishonest, as I warned you before, you have to admit this.

In the light of this, can you point out to me where it says in the Bible that Scriptures alone is what is needed for our salvation? Putting into the consideration that the Bible itself says that not everything that Jesus did and taught his disciples was written down and If they were all written all the books in the world would not contain them.

All that we needed to know was written down. It has to be written, if you ever want to be able to defeat the devil in any battle, you MUST be able to refer Satan to where it is written just as the Lord Jesus Christ did when He had a battle with Satan in the wilderness. He answered every temptation with "It is written"...

3.What for you is the pillar and foundation of Truth, the Church or the Scriptures?

The church is the pillar and ground of Truth to a dying world. 1 Timothy 3:15 " But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

The written Word is the Pillar and the Truth to the Church

There is a big difference between the two.

[quote author=ElsonMorali post=50467481]

I guess you think you're much more brilliant than an Institution that is 2000 years old right?

Dear, I understand you perfectly. The Bible says we should not be respecters of persons, so I will not defer my judgement to a "2000 year old institution", after all it is written in the Bible that the elderly are not always wise .

You have to face up to the reality of it. Bible church traditions do not contradict the Bible, in fact , the proceed from the Bible. But in your case, your traditions (supposedly the Word of God -from the mouth of one Pope or the other) says one thing, and the Bible which you agree is the Word of God too, says another. Which kind of confusionist god is that? speaking from the two sides of his mouth? I maintain that that confused god you worship, is not the God of the Bible that I worship.

ElsonMorali:
Well since you don't want to answer any of mine here's your answer.

The word of God isn't just written Scripture. It is both Scripture and Tradition, both embodied in the living Church, which is the Bride of Christ.

That is where the problem is my dear. God can not be confused, saying one thing in the scripture, and another through your traditions. If the traditions where really to be the Word of God, they would be the same as the scriptures. Unfortunately, you make God look like a confused person who forgets what he said yesterday, and changes his opinion each time a new Pope comes out with a canon. That is just ridiculous. You are worshiping a confused god, very different from the God I worship.

MrPresident1:
Obama is not going anywhere and Mrs Clinton will not be president according to Bible prophecy.

The end will come during the tenure of the son of perdition, look up this thread below to see who the son of perdition is.

https://www.nairaland.com/2991715/falling-away-revelation-son-perdition

The presidency of Mrs Clinton is not in tandem with Biblical prophecy

Choi....na wa ooo...No problem. All I know, is that a woman must be US president before the end. It might even be Michelle Obama, if Hillary suddenly dies. Hillary is just the best fit now because she is contesting, looks like she will win and has the kind of character necessary for some end time scriptural events to occur. If she suddenly dies, then the next best fit is Michelle Obama, but for Barack Obama himself - sorry. I know you will abandon your.l moniker in shame when your words do not pan out. As for me, I no be prophet, I am only repeating what a Word prophet said. If its Hillary, fine , if not fine also BUT A WOMAN IS GOING TO BE US PRESIDENT PERIOD - you can take that to the bank.

Ranchhoddas:
That a person is prepared to die for his/her belief does not prove the truth of the belief, it only shows the sincerity of the believer. Boko Haram, ISIS and Al-Qaeda members die for their beliefs all the time.

You know, that list was not an "either or". It was an "and" and "and" and..... Book haram or ISIS cannot fit when you use the. "And".

ElsonMorali:
Lol. Seems you were expecting another reply.

Ofcourse I'm certain. The question is How do you define "the word of God"?

Okay , Question 2) Are the written texts bound into what we call the Bible, the authoritative Word of God to which all further revelations must compare with?

MuttleyLaff:
No, that means... 100%, I am who I am

The brilliance shown so far is flagrantly ducking from sharing more on the rapture subject you dangled about
and shying from answering ''Which scripture(s) this ''rapture'' doctrine is based on?'' question

Clap for you ke?
Isnt it aaaaa....mazing that a closet narcissist who is yet to share more on the rapture subject dangled about
and yet to answer the ''Which scripture(s) this ''rapture'' doctrine is based on?'' question wants to be given a round of applause

Bros... no vex ehn? i dey come......e be like say you dey find persin wen you go..... I no talk again

evansjeff:
I know this is not allowed in Christianity, and it has always been a cause of worry to me, any hopes of making heaven? both having kids for me already, fellow nairalanders and Christians...help a wondering heart.


help move this to Front page please

My dear, don't mind all the pharisaic hypocrites telling you to divorce wife no 2 and that wife no 1 is the original wife. It is the nonsensical, hypocritical, satanic and ungodly doctrine of the Deeper Life church and perhaps some others. It is NOT AND I REPEAT FOR EMPHASIS, NOT a biblical doctrine - and trust me, i should know, because...I know. HELL is almost guaranteed if you tow their line. On the other hand, you can go to heaven, as there were many that had more than one wife in Bible times. It was only written that the officers of the church should be men that had one wife.So all you will miss is positions of authority in the church. If your heart is right with God, why should that bother you? Well, a word is enough for the wise ooo.

wellsaid:
Hidden from the Wise and Prudent, but revealed Unto Babes .......

https://www.nairaland.com/3369863/hidden-manna-end-times-prophecies

My dear, Obama is going. a woman MUST become president of the US. If it is not now,it will not synchronise with other complementary prallel end time events, so it has to be now, and the only available option is Ms Clinton, so it has to be Clinton. There is no 7 year tribulation. It is not supported by the scripture. There is only, a 3.5 year tribulation. I agree there will be crises at the start of it, that the Man of Sin will capitalise on to come to the fore.

MuttleyLaff:
It's no laughing matter so quit the laugh(s)

This is not a laughing matter my dear...
The original and still intent was not and is not to make you laugh
but to make you share more on this rapture subject you dangle about
and hold you to answer the ''Which scripture(s) do you base this ''rapture'' doctrine on?'' question

Okay, I take it you are not a muslim. You are not an atheist. You are not a pagan. That means... You must be a christian of some sort Brilliant!!! clap for mee..

Pidggin:
Hehehehe God forbid, Pope no bi antichrist abeg

Na because you dey fear abi you tru tru wan see the bible evidence, even historical evidence join am.. just ask, I go show you.. Let me revert to English before dem sanction me..

sonmvayina:
I took time to read through all the post of arguement and counter arguements..well my own contribution is this..
1.Hilary clinton holds a big position in human history, whether she is the last president,, that i dont know..but i know she is going to usher in a new human age..."the age of lucifer"..,like i said earlier in this forum, lucifer is not the devil...she is no other than Mary the mother of Jesus..the 100 year anniversary of her apparations in Fatimah is next year 2017, she appeared to 3 kids and gave them 3 secrets for the pope and mankkind. 2 of it has been released already. The third is a heavily guided vatican secrets..but what i know is that it involves the death of so many prople, russia, america....she is the beast of revelation 17-19. She does not wiish us well. she is the famous prost.tute riding a bull..the bull is the symbol for satan who happens to be her grand father..her father is Ninazu the devil..she is Inana in the babylonian version, aphrodite in Greeks, Venus in Roman religion...

Gbagaun!!!... I ring bell for you oooo Chineke meooo!!!

Pidggin:
But Bible no mention Pope na

Haba, so if I describe your husband finish and I no know im name, you no go know say na im be dat ? Especially if I say I see am for Sister Comfort house

Pidggin:
Madam haba, the Pope is the antichrist?

Your quest for knowledge has not helped you, you can't be at peace with all these things you post occupying your thought.

My dear, na Bible talk am oo, no be me talk am. i just dey repeat am as Bible talk am.

Samcent:
SisterMe, I respect ur depth of knowledge, & d passion with which u go abt ur beliefs.
I want to ask, what makes U so certain that ur religious views are correct?
How are u so sure that u have not be running with herectic teachings all these years?
Pls don't be offended by my questions.

No offense at all my dear. Why am I so sure that my religious views are correct? I will answer the question with questions Don't be offended.

Why was Moses so sure that Israel would be free from Egypt so much so that he abandon his regency of Egypt
Why was Moses mother so sure that Moses was the deliverer, so much so that she risked her life to hide him?
Why was Joshua so sure about dividing the promised land for the children of Israel?
Why were the rag tag band followers of David so sure that he would be King?
Why was Solomon so sure of his wisdom?
Why was Elisha so sure of the double portion of Elijah's spirit upon him when he got to jordan river?
Why was Joseph so sure of Mary's story that he took her in?
Why was Nicodemus so sure that Jesus was a teacher who came from God?
Why was Stephen so sure of what he was saying ill he was ready to die for it?

I can go on and on and on and on.. but I spare you.. I am so sure, because what I believe, I did not receive of myself, I was taught it through someone who was taught it directly from God, the person of Reverend William Branham, who is God's angel (messenger) to the last day church (Laodicea Rev 3:14), who was a prophet of the manner of Moses,Isaiah, Jeremiah, Paul and co, unto whom the Word of the Lord was revealed to "Mouth to ear" by the Lord God Almighty Himself. It CANNOT be wrong, or else GOD was wrong, and God cannot be wrong. If I say anything of myself, that can be wrong, but the basic picture as revealed to God's prophet for this age can not be wrong. Any one that ignores his message, ignores it at his/her own peril. And everything he preached was soundly Biblical, if you really open your eyes to see it.

ElsonMorali:
Obviously by the word of God

Are you certain about this, because we.can't come back to lay this foundation again?

MuttleyLaff:
... and I can sniff quack, quack, quack chicken...
and this chicken has little or no faith to stand on or walk on the word in Psalm 23:4

I am none of the aforementioned, so go just ahead nau, bite the bullet... ehn

A ha ha ha..you make me laugh my dear..

ElsonMorali:
Interesting. Lemme guess you read or heard something negative about the Church and decided to abandon the Barque of Peter? Or what happened?

Let's start with a clear basis then we can move from there.

Question 1). By what will this world be judged . I mean by which standard- by the standard of an evolving church or by the written Word of God?

ElsonMorali:
My dear sister please ask me whatever question you want to ask concerning the doctrine, any doctrine of the Catholic Church that you feel is wrong. I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I may have been born a Catholic, but I don't claim to be Catholic because I was born there, but because I have done my research and I've compared the doctrines of all these other "churches".

What amuses me is that you think your questions are going to be new.

a simple research by anybody who is interested will reveal that whatever question you have about the doctrines of the Catholic Church has been asked before and been answered somewhere in the 2000-year history of the Catholic Church.

If you want to continue this discussion outside this forum just pm me, otherwise I'd be glad to reply you here.

Well well I was born a Roman Catholic too.. let's discuss here..

Rev 17: 14-18 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the LovePeddler sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the LovePeddler, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. [

After neutralising the Western powers, these Kings will come to Armageddon to fight Israel perhaps because of the Palestinian question. Then the Lord descends from heave with the raptured saints with Him and fights them with His Word and slaughters them all. The waters are the Holy Roman Catholic chuch adherents Plus the protestants churches that behave like her..that's over 2 billion people. Add Islam who, as we are told, was setup by Rome to achieve its purpose, though the plan backfired, we have perhaps 4 billion-5 billion people? Add other babylonish religions (all religions are offshoots of the Babylon religion of Nimrod and his wife who started the Madonna and child idea- most other religions are just variants of this) and we have almost the whole world population less perhaps a couple of million christians - who were left behind (foolish virgins).

As said earlier, the ten kings bomb the vatican towards the end. And the woman, is that great city (Rome-Vatican) that reigns over the kings of the earth. As they say, all roads lead to Rome.

That's the best as I understand it, as generally taught by God's messenger to this last day church, Reverend William marrion Branham. Note that I added some illustrations of my own, but the basic plot as he taught it, is what I have laid out here.

ElsonMorali:
Do you know what is most sad? When someone who is lost doesn't know that she is lost.

I pray the same prayer for you sis.

But you need to ask yourself some salient questions and don't swallow hook, line and sinker everything you're told by your pastor.

You need to do the same Brother.... there are some questions I can ask you about your doctrine, that you have to be outrightly dishonest to deny what the Bible says clearly about them..

Rev 17:10-13 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The kings are just that- rulers, emperors whose brutality earned them a place in this list. One more is to come, by this scripture written 1900 + years ago. I think he is already here (personal belief) though not yet manifested as the antiChrist. In any case he will be a Pope. So it might be this current pope for all we know. The beast that was and is is the eighth and works in all the seven- that is Satan himself. The ten horns are ten kings that become powerful by dictatorship, that is what I believe "receive power" indicates. They only show up a the end when its time to burn up the great city with fire. The only fire that can do that is a nuclear bomb, so these ten kings must be somehow confederate with Russia and China or Russia and China are part of them, loyal to satan (communism?)

ElsonMorali:
First off, that somebody predicts that something would happen in future and it comes to pass doesn't mean it is from God. Even the evil one has some of those powers to some extent to which God grants him.

Second, that the so-called prophecy states that the Catholic Church is the beast makes it null and void. JWs have bren trolling that idea for as long as their congregation has been in existence. Now i dare say, they probably know better now.

If you call yourself a "christian" and you're actually outside the fold of the Catholic Church, then the proper name for you is "heretic".

It simply means that you're professing a particular type of heresy that has been fought and overcome by the Church in its 2000 years of existence. Since 33A.D.

You can google the list of heresies and find out where you belong dear.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Matthew 15:14.

Except God opens your eyes, you can not see it my dear. I pray that your eyes will open someday, before it is too late.

Rev 17: 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

There is only one City in the world built on seven hills, the palatine hills, where a church rules, and that is the Vatican. The beast "was, is not..." just like Revelations 1 whereJesus is referred to as He who was, He who is and He who is to come, Satan personifies himself similarly and will come eventually as the AntiChrist.One Pope comes and goes, another one comes, until the final one comes.

Interesting thing to note, those whose names are not in the book of life shall be taken in or deceived by this beast. So your name has to have been in the book of life of the Lamb before the beast appears, in order not to be deceived. Who was that that said there is nothing like predestination?