₦airaland Forum

I know this is way late, but I had to comment. You claim that you are being scientific and objective but you are not. You have not proven anything. You use statistics of failed marriage as proof. That doesn't explain anything. There are many variables such as culture and socio-economic aspects that you've refused to take into account. The fact is that while you've tried to use to science to debunk love, science is what actually proves it. Love is an evolutionary function that kept couples together in order to stay together long enough to raise children together because this gave the species an advantage. It is similar to the fact that mothers bond with their offspring in order to stay with them long enough to provide for them and protect them. These are actual hormonal occurrences that can be analysed and measured. Love is a fact. It is unscientific to deny it. Your arguments are redundant. If it is just lust, the human species would not have progressed. No one would have stayed together long enough to raise children together in the absence of societal pressure. Yet there is evidence that early humans, and even certain other animals such as Swans developed life-long bonds. Where it a case of simple lust, it wouldn't last and they would leave each other when someone more attractive comes along.

opeaceo:
Nooo, going by your logic, if we don't have the enzymes that support eating them, we shouldn't eat at all.

How does that go by my logic? And you conveniently ignore how we have the enzyme amylase. Insoluble fibre benefits human digestive health, as far as I know. If there's something you know that disproves that, i'd like to learn about it. Resistant starch help our gut bacteria. One of the reasons why people get digestion issues on a fruitarian diet is the lack of resistant starch.

opeaceo:
haaaa, what I was supposed to type was cellulose.

Your body, our body doesn't have an enzyme that digest cellulose.

Before you loose sight of what you're talking about, lemme remind you, you said we were not designed to eat meat (our digestive tract), we are also not designed to eat plants (cellulose).

And cellulose is the only thing in plants? And isn't that fibre, which is useful for our gut but not digestible?

opeaceo:
and you're more educated than I am? I wrote that gibberish up there thinking you were smart, but no, what is "cellulase"? Ok, I don't want to sound pissed but I am, can you honestly correct what I wrote up there??

I've never heard of it so never addressed it. I never claimed to be more educated than you, just claimed that your redundant arguments made you sound uneducated, but later said that I think you're playing dumb just in defend meat eating. Furthermore, my point on enzymes was entirely about amylase which humans have in great amounts, to break down starch. Apes don't always have it and when they do it is in much smaller amounts. The fact of us having so much amylase was to show that we are meant to eat plants. Didn't want to go off topics or into things that I don't understand/you didn't explain. Thanks

opeaceo:
and you have enzymes to digest cellulase??

Have you never heard of amylase? We digest starch with it.

opeaceo:
Jesus, because you don't know doesn't mean they don't exist. How many Fruitarians do you know that gave that lifestyle up??

You're supposed to be educated dude!!!

I'm not a dude. And there are vegan forums full of ex-fruitarians that explain what their experience was.

opeaceo:
How does fruitarian animals affect this discuss?? You know what, enjoy your plants while I enjoy my animals and leave the Fruitarians to enjoy their fruits.

You brought the fruit issue up! Lol. I was just showing that if humans were not meant to eat plants, we would not have the enzymes to digest them.

opeaceo:
Most but not all and same with the veggies. We are talking about Vegan/Veggies not Fruitarians.

I don't know of any vegans that gave up because of digestion issues. If anything, it heals the gut.

opeaceo:
Most but not all and same with the veggies. We are talking about Vegan/Veggies not Fruitarians.

Humans are starch eaters is my point. I am eating the diet most appropriate for my species.

opeaceo:
"Fruitarian animals"?? Like " fruitarian animals"?? Is that phrase a typo or what??

Haaa, No, I give up!!!

It was not a typo. Or you've never heard of apes that, almost, exclusively eat fruit?

opeaceo:
I gave you 3 sources and all you could type was "daily mail?"

For educated fellows, there's no harm in reading new stuffs.

It also doesn't justify eating plants. You can survive on just for fruits and you'll survive, at least a fruitarian says that.

Most frutarians end up giving up after a couple of years because of the cost, the inconvenience and the toll it takes on their digestive system. Humans are starch eaters.

opeaceo:
I gave you 3 sources and all you could type was "daily mail?"

For educated fellows, there's no harm in reading new stuffs.

It also doesn't justify eating plants. You can survive on just for fruits and you'll survive, at least a fruitarian says that.

I'm not the one who needs to justify what I'm doing, since it's natural for humans to eat plants. We have enzymes in our saliva that break down starch, something fruitarian animals don't have.

opeaceo:
oooh, boy!! You needed credible sources and I did give you one, at least read na, Mr educated fellow.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/15/do-plants-respond-to-pain-scientists-conduct-an-experiment-to-find-out/

here we go.

another one for the road:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-112942/Plants-talk-say-scientists.html

Daily mail? Lol. Still doesn't justify your meat eating even if it were valid.

opeaceo:
Boohoo...

Someone needs education!!

Educate me then! I'm waiting for the valid resources. Unless, of course, you don't have any.

opeaceo:
Think outside the box dear, Google the word "Fruitarian", there are people called plants activist. They protect the right of plants. You can survive on fruits, that would be lovely.

Humans are not gorillas, we don't thrive on fruit. We are starch eaters. Civilisations didn't develop based on foraging for fruit all day long. They developed agriculture which gave us stable sources of calories and glucose, which is w fuelled the increase in brain size. How are we going to feed the world with fruit? Crazy. And you still have not proved that plants feel pain.

opeaceo:
anything that has life can feel pain. Plants suffer a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury and that's what scientists tells us.

It seems someone need education more, ask the fruitarian what he's fighting for,

This is crazy yo! Are you for real?? You need nerve endings to feel pain. Lol!

opeaceo:
anything that has life can feel pain. Plants suffer a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury and that's what scientists tells us.

It seems someone need education more, ask the fruitarian what he's fighting for,

Lol! Would you be kind enough to tell me where I can get the reliable resources on that? Also, how does this support meat eating? It seems, again, you don't realise how arguments work. Furthermore, like I've said before, any harm caused by eating plants is necessary unless you want me to starve and die. Meanwhile, it is not necessary to eat meat.

opeaceo:
and this justifies you action for plants eeeii??

it does when I have to eat plants to survive.

hahn:
You vegans go around eating all the plants while cutting down on the oxygen supply. Kontunu

More land and forest is destroyed for animal agriculture than anything else.

opeaceo:
can we please stop this bickering?? You do not need animals to survive, but I do, I can't do without my meat and all its derivations and by products, I get it. Cool now??

I'm not bickering. You keep quoting, so I will answer you. What's the problem in that? Unless, of course, there is no logic to your argument and you're annoyed with me for exposing that. We are both humans, the same species, so have the same dietary requirements. You don't "need" meat any more than I do, you just don't want someone challenging your choices, yet you're more than comfortable in challenging them.

opeaceo:
You're still dancing round circles, if you're all for animal cruelty-

- other animals preying on lesser animals need this education.

- Farmers need this education.

- You say plants have no CNS, and I ask why plants let off a certain smell when they're being mowed?? Why do some plants grow thicker edges/blades when their "friends" are being cutdown??

This prove nothing. Plan are alive and are still trying to defend themselves, it's in their dna. But how does that prove that they have a nervous system or feel pain, unless you've done an unpublished study uncovering information that no one has known of before?

opeaceo:
chaii, what is the use of pesticides?? and you talk about rational ability??

Why you ignored what I said about animals being fed plants? So, I shouldn't eat? You also ignored where I said eliminating harm as much as possible. So, it is possible for me to not eat anything in order to eliminate harm? Lol! Of course harm to animals will happen just by humans existing on the planet. You probably killed a bug by accident today already. Do I condemn that? Nope. But, I course, you pick and choose which parts of what I say to listen to. If you can remember, I said I don't need a reason not to cause harm WHEN I DONT HAVE TO. That's the key part. Not too hard to understand. I have to eat plants to survive, so any harm that causes is too bad but necessary. I don't need to eat meat to survive though, so any harm that causes is unethical and illogical.

opeaceo:
And here I was thinking I'm quoting an educated fellow.

Second hand B 12? Not Fifth hand?? buhahahahaha. If animal cruelty is your only reason for adopting that lifestyle, then you've not done well. Take a look at animal cruelty holistically and do not choose one that favours you.
Adios.

I don't think you're really this dumb, at least I hope not. I think you're just looking for ways to justify something you know is illogical. Like I said before, I don't need a reason to do the right thing, you're the one who needs a reason to go against logic. It's common sense not to harm others if you can avoid doing so! And, it's as if you can't read. I broke down the definition of veganism. As you can see it doesn't limit eliminating cruelty to just what we eat. It's also about clothing, entertainment and anything else that we can do to avoid causing harm to animals. If this is too hard for you to understand, then you need help. Professional help.

opeaceo:
And here I was thinking I'm quoting an educated fellow.

Second hand B 12? Not Fifth hand?? buhahahahaha. If animal cruelty is your only reason for adopting that lifestyle, then you've not done well. Take a look at animal cruelty holistically and do not choose one that favours you.

Adios.

I don't think you're really this dumb, at least I hope not. I think you're just looking for ways to justify something you know is illogical. Like I said before, I don't need a reason to do the right thing, you're the one who needs a reason to go against logic. It's common sense not to harm others if you can avoid doing so! And, it's as if you can't read. I broke down the definition of veganism. As you can see it doesn't limit eliminating cruelty to just what we eat. It's also about clothing, entertainment and anything else that we can do to avoid causing harm to animals. If this is too hard for you to understand, then you need help. Professional help.

opeaceo:
And here I was thinking I'm quoting an educated fellow.

Second hand B 12? Not Fifth hand?? buhahahahaha. If animal cruelty is your only reason for adopting that lifestyle, then you've not done well. Take a look at animal cruelty holistically and do not choose one that favours you.

Adios.

I don't think you're really this dumb, at least I hope not. I think you're just looking for ways to justify something you know is illogical. Like I said before, I don't need a reason to do the right thing, you're the one who needs a reason to go against logic. It's common sense not to harm others if you can avoid doing so! And, it's as if you can't read. I broke down the definition of veganism. As you can see it doesn't limit eliminating cruelty to just what we eat. It's also about clothing, entertainment and anything else that we can do to avoid causing harm to animals. If this is too hard for you to understand, then you need help.

opeaceo:
You just typed gibberish, no answers to my questions and you sit and type and talk about arguments

If you're all for the pain, why do animals die for the survival of plants?

What was your response again?? it doesn't make it right, ok, why not send your sermons to the farmers that engage in such?? Someone is too ignorant. I'll help you, have you ever wondered why vegans/veggies shy away from that topic or give the "yeye" answer you just gave, but then again, they are anti GMO?? Confused lots...

If your only reason is for the pain of animals, I'm sorry, you're just a follow follow and I doubt if you're a vegan, wait, do you know the meaning of vegan??

If I am sticking to a diet and I need supplements, then that diet is from the hottest part of hell.

It's convenient how you ignore most of what I say, yet claim I haven't answered your questions. I answered you by telling you, not like you didn't know before, that the two are not connected so it doesn't contribute to your argument. If I slap you in the face, me saying that your mum does it too is not connected and is not a valid justification. Do you see this? Gosh! It's like talking to a brick wall. And, I don't know where you get your information, but no one kills animals to grow plants. If they have died already, that doesn't add to your point, seeing as meat eaters don't eat animals that have died already. I hope, for your sake, that you're not serious about most of what you've been saying, I doubt if someone could be so lacking in rational ability.

opeaceo:
You just typed gibberish, no answers to my questions and you sit and type and talk about arguments

If you're all for the pain, why do animals die for the survival of plants?

What was your response again?? it doesn't make it right, ok, why not send your sermons to the farmers that engage in such?? Someone is too ignorant. I'll help you, have you ever wondered why vegans/veggies shy away from that topic or give the "yeye" answer you just gave, but then again, they are anti GMO?? Confused lots...

If your only reason is for the pain of animals, I'm sorry, you're just a follow follow and I doubt if you're a vegan, wait, do you know the meaning of vegan??

If I am sticking to a diet and I need supplements, then that diet is from the hottest part of hell.

If you don't understand how arguments work, that is your problem not mine. I'm not your philosophy teacher. I'm not here to teach you how logical fallacies don't support arguments. You are taking supplements already. Unless you don't eat. A lot of foods are fortified. And animals are given b12 supplements, so by eating the animal you are ingesting second hand b12. Why not just take it directly. It seems your the one who doesn't know what a vegan is. It is not a diet, it is a lifestyle that seeks as much a possible to eliminate the exploitation of animals in food, clothing, entertainment ect.

opeaceo:
Sorry to dissapoint, as a matter of fact, my school had no science teacher . But, I heard from a plant that Man is an Omnivore!!! Maybe, I don't know the definition of the word "omnivore", can you please help??

Since you're all for the pains felt by the animals, why do animals die so that plant can live?? I need an answer to that please.

It seems someone is grounded in plant studies, when a field is being mowed, that smell let off by grasses is for what??

Please, no grammar, break it down, as You said earlier, I'm uneducated.

You really are uneducated, i'm glad you admit it yourself. Do you know how arguments work? You don't use random things that have nothing to do with each other to prove a point. Animals having to die for plants to grow does not prove that it is right to kill them for food; the two are not related. Why don't you understand this? Man is not an omnivore by nature even though he has chosen to be. If you study the human digestive system, compared to carnivores and omnivores, you'll see that humans' intestines are much longer than any carnivore or omnivore. When you look at our teeth, do you really believe they were designed for sinking into flesh? Or, the fact that we have no claws. If you're an omnivore, go and chase down a wild animal and kill it with no tools. Lol! Omnivore indeed. I don recommend doing that because even if you're fast enough to catch it, which is unlikely, your struggle with it could kill you. Humans have our organs in an exposed position, something that would put omnivores and carnivores at risk when they catch prey. Have you ever heard of a cat or dog getting heart disease from eating too much saturated fat? I haven't! That's because they are real meat eating animals. Humans are not, that's why we can't handle so much animal protein. No matter how we have chosen to live, our nature has not changed.

opeaceo:
I think the animals that eat other animals raw need this sermon, not a human.

And this you wrote up there isn't a reason, no matter how long it is.

The plants you have access to, animals were killed, so that they can be harvested. Haven't you thought about that yet?? Do plants feel pain or not?? Are they not "living things"? If plants could make noise, I'm sure they'll be protesting by now!!

Actually, no. It's the humans that eat animals that need this sermon. Carnivorous animals need to eat other animals to survive. Humans do it for the taste. It's crazy the silly arguments people come up with to defend eating meat! Are you seriously telling me you're that uneducated, or did you just miss the science class in school that explained the different types of life? Plants are alive, yes, but they do not have a central nervous system, thus cannot feel pain. Why do they call people that are still alive, yet brain dead, vegetables? They are are in a vegetable-like state. They have no consciousness or feeling yet they are alive. Lol! Even children understand the difference between plants and animals, that argument is pathetic and embarrassing. Do you realise the illogic to all of what you've said? If animals have to die for plants to be harvested, are meat eaters not causing even more harm by eating both plants (which you say cause animals to die) and eating animals who have to die, and who are fed plants that, you say cause animals to die. Lol! Ridiculous.

opeaceo:
Can you please state better reasons than the "pain and suffering of animals"? That line is getting stale.

No one placed a gun on your head to accept the lifestyle.

But hold on, are you a vegan or a vegetarian??

I am a vegan. You really need a "reason" to stop paying people to torture and kill animals so that you can enjoy the taste of their flesh and by-products? What would be my "reason" for not randomly punching you in the face if I see you? Hmmm, maybe the common sense and decency of not causing harm to others when you don't have to.
You are right, no one placed a gun on my head. I had the intelligence and decency to consider, when the facts where placed before me, the harm that meat eating among humans is causing to our health, the planet and the animals. No gun was placed on my head, but everyday in slaughter houses all over the world, stun guns are placed on animals heads while they consciously struggle and are bled alive. Every day, children in developing countries (such as ours) starve or go hungry while large amounts of grain that could feed them is being used for animal feed. Everyday more of the world's rainforest is being destroyed to make room for animal farming to meet the growing demand for meat from the world's growing population. Everyday, the world's oceans are becoming more and more destroyed and depleating due, mostly, to over fishing. No one placed a gun on my head, I just wasn't afraid to accept the truth when I was faced with it.

kayceemadu9:
I'm a healthy food advocate and for a while I've making making some research on vegan recipes..But most of them are foreign fruits and stuff that cannot. be found in naija.I want to know if there are people that have an idea. on how to make up a. healthy Nigerian vegan.meal.plan...

It's great that you're a healthy eating advocate but veganism is a lifestyle, not a diet. While it definitely improves health, what helps us stay vegan for life is the knowledge of the cruelity involved in animal products, how it is destroying the earth and how factory farming is using grain (that could feed the starving children in the world) to feed animals that are being raised for meat.

rahymat:
Bt early men lived longer than us and they eat lot of meats.eating meat doesn't mean u wont live long bt its because the way most pple preserve meat for consumption is dangerous.processed meat and even processed vegetables are the major causes of cancer.one doesn't need to avoid meat just get it from a good source or u can even rear them by urself.lean meat like grass fed beef is good for dieters but if u still have second thoughts abt eating meats you can eat vegetables but make sure you get it from a good source because most pple use chemicals to make it look enticing

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cancer/
http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/14/animal-protein-and-igf-1/
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/#
Humans are herbivores; creatures that function best on a plant-based diet.