₦airaland Forum

tpiadotcom:
quite true.

Very true

Fulaman198:
Ahidjo's mother was a Kordo (female slave) so she wasn't Fulani but she was Fulani speaking. His father however was a Fulani. I don't know much about Atiku Abubakar's bloodline, or Lamido Hayatou Galim's bloodline (Hayatou does look stereotypically West African though).

In regards to Senegalese Fulani, are you counting the Haal'pulaaren (Tukulors) alongside the Fulbe. Even though Tukulors and Fulbe speak the same language some people don't consider Tukulors original Fulbe. Some view them as Serer or Wolof that became "Fulanized" ....

To me, the most nomadic Fulbe that don't mix represent the purest of the Fulbe. Senegalbe has become very Wolofnized that I can't tell you for certain that they are 100% Fulbe anymore. Though, I'm sure you will still find 100% Fulbe in Senegal/Mauritania like you can in Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon and Mali.

When I see a Fulani from Guinea or Senegal, I can recognise them immediately. The only difference is the accent in which we speak our respective Fulfulde/Pulaar languages. It's like an American speaking to a British but they both speak English.

So I imagine that you are aware of the bloodlines of the "pure" Fulanis? I guess you know that they exist fulani maccudos (slaves), who are slaves but fulanis in origin. A very powerful figure of my country was recently dubbed to be one (I won't cite his name, don't want to end up in jail).

Fulaman198:
These are Fulani looks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLJje7mZzU

Pure-blooded 100% Fulani women

These are 100% authentic Fulani looks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlSmTviLat4

So people who doesn't look like this are not Fulani? Is it the look that define Fulanis? I am aware that there is what we can call a broad Fulani look. But there is not a single general Fulani look, because of intermixing Fulani looks have become very diverse. The looks on Abubakar, Ahidjo or Hayatou are not less Fulani than any Fulani from Mauritania for example. The same factor that made Fulani adopt other names also changed their looks, it is unavoidable for an ethnic group to travel that much and to not change. That is why Pulaku is one of the bases of the Fulani identity, because depending on the countries, looks and names, sometimes even language become very different. I can spot a Guinean Fulani from a Senegalese one and Guinea is not even that far from Senegal.
There are people who look Fulani when they are not (and I'm not talking about horners) just because that kind of look is not specific to the Fulanis.
Anyways let's go back to the main topic of the thread.

Fulaman198:
Indeed long time no see

How are things going? Do you live in Nigeria Fulaman?

Fulaman198:
Rimaybe exists as a caste everywhere not just Nigeria or Cameroon. Juldeh Camara is Rimaybe because as you can tell by his last name, he's Mande. Juldeh in the Fulani language means prayer or pray. Camara is 100% Mande. Going by his name alone we know that his bloodline inherited Fulbe culture.

Senegalese Fulani do indeed have more castes than Nigerian Fulani or so I have been told by Fulani from other countries.

Fulani look = tall, beautiful teeth and most times lanky but not always as some Fulani living in grandeur are a bit plump loll. Fulani noses typically speaking are not wide. Some small, some long. For me personally I can easily spot a Fulani in a crowd.

The typical Fulani look is more of a Buhari, Yar'adua kind of look.

Yar'adua look fulani, buhari looks kinda hausa to me. He looks both. Yes Senegalese have many castes, I thought that you didn't have castes, I will ask some friends about that. What are the castes that fulanis have in Nigeria. If fulani migrated how was it still possible to reconize who was a gawlo or who was a bailo after many generations?
So what about people who identify as fulani and yet don't have a fulani name, Nigeria is a perfect example of that. Are they rimaybe too? I am curious to know because sometimes we make mistakes when we base ourselves on people's name. I am not denying that Julde Camara is not 100 per cent fulani. He is obviously is mixed with mande. Just the same way Toucouleurs are mixed but they have adopted fulani culture. Are toucouleurs rimaybe then?
What about people with typical fulani names such as Ba who are not fulani. Are those rimbe or rimaybe? And what is the definition of rimbe, because I can't manage to understand that.
Wolof people and Serer are also tall and have beautiful teeth, many of them also do not have wide noses yet they don't look fulani. I can say the same about Soninke people too.
On the other hand fulani of other countries like guinea etc, for example are not that tall, and many of them do not fit that physical type.
Don't you think that your description is too broad?

Omarbah:
Most ethnic groups in the region got exposed to Islam around the 11th century with the Almoravids. But like I said, it did not take a stronghold among them. Fulanis in Guinea, Mali and even Souleymane Baal in Northern Senegal had to fight the fula pagans among themselves too.

Yeah but islam penetrated wolof society before the 19th century. Wolofs were not just exposed to it, there were also (very mild) muslims, particularly among the aristocracy, those were the less religious. Its like when in Senegal they said that Cheikh Ahmadou Bamba converted king Lat Dior to islam. Most people believe that because Lat Dior was a ceddo, they forgot that Lat Dior's father managed a coranic school in Coki. Same with almost all Wolof kings at that time, they werz practicing a superstitious islam, encouraged in that by their Moors marabouts.

Fulaman198:
Oh ok I'm sorry dear for the misunderstanding. Nanga def?

Jam rek Fula, long time no see...

Fulaman198:
Yeah it's a cast of those who aren't truly Fulbe ethnically but have become assimilated to Fulbe culture.

Does rimaybe as a cast only exist in Nigeria because I don't know about it here? So Julde Camara is rimaybe because he is mixed you mean, do you think that Julde identifies himself as rimaybe? I thought that you didn't have castes like the ones we have and basically rimbe and rimaybe were more like the well off and the poorer Fulanis?
And about the look, a lot of Fulanis from other countries are rimbe, if it is the definition you meant, and do not look Fulani.
What about fulanis like atiku abubakar, he is from the nobility, and he doesn't look fulani to me. Issa Hayatou is also a prince from Garoua, yet he doesn't really has the typical fulani type.
Wodaabes are a minority, what about the vast majority? What is THE fulani look?

Fulaman198:
First and foremost there is no such thing as looking negroid, secondly there is no such thing as looking "Semitic" as it's a linguistic group.

The Fulanis that look "stereotypically" black (when I say that I mean non-Sahelian) are Rimaybe typically speaking meaning those who are not truly of Fulani origin as you know there are many Fulani people of Mande descent (like Juldeh Camara).

If you want a good idea of the true Fulani look, look at us the Mbororo'en and other groups further north like the Wodaabe. Ayub Diallo has the look too. A Fulani knows a Fulani when he/she sees one.

What is rimaybe fula, is it a cast?

Omarbah:
Wrong, the Bambara embraced Islam after the Jihad of Seku Amadu and later on El Hadj Umar Tall. Also the major Marabout families in Senegal are of Tukulor origins. And it was during the Jihads of Tukulors( more of less successful) and later on Mouridism that Islam penetrated Wolof society. It was these Jihads that made it possible for a Muslim to practice his religion freely in Senegal, Gambia, Guinea and Mali.

Actually islam penetred Wolof society almost as early as in Toucouleur society, the thing is most Wolofs were just very mild muslims. Most of them were ceddo and muslims at the same time.

Fulaman198:
OmarBah is a Fulani from Guinea so I will hold back a lot on my opinion in regards to Guinea.

It is true that Guinea is a lot more liberal in regards to Islam than say Nigeria, but It's not my place to judge. I still think good men and women come out of Guinea.

Senegal is a mixed bag. It has garnered notoriety in its ability to attract older white women seeking young black males (most of which are Wolof). Some parts of Senegal are extremely religious whilst other parts are more liberal.

No Fula, every ethnic group do that in Senegal, regardless of origin, they all wanna escape poverty. I'll say that it's the Serer boys who do it the most, just because the main touristic city happens to be Mbour, which is a Serer area.

gragraboy:
They should trek to Mars for all i care


If they dont have money for hajj let them talk instead of forming style.

Real talk! ;

Ontarget:
Without a man most women are nothing. And besides, why are men always the ones to uplift women? Why can't women uplift some men at least.

Omarbah:
I did read Leuk le lievre, ce fut un regal . It is full of important lessons for life.

Yeah, it reminds me of childhood memories... I think I'm gonna read it again

Fulaman198:
ROFL so odd and speaking Wolof isn't? I'm not a Wolof man I'd tell them.

Beyond the ethnic considerations; wolof is the lingua franca. The fact that wolof is more spoken online is just because most of these people speak only wolof besides french. It'll be easier if you speak french online

Omarbah:
No I have not read any of his work, which ones would you recommend? I came accross a few ones. I think he has one on black/ African women if I am not mistaken.

Yeah that one is Femme Noire. Joal is part of the Chants D'ombres collection. You can access all his work online. He also did co-write with Abdoulaye Sadji ""La belle histoire de leuk le lievre''; a great tales book that is studied in primary school's program.

Fulaman198:
If I joined a Senegalese Forum as a Nigerian Fulani would they welcome me?

Yes, Senegalese are quite nice; maybe the barrier would be the language as they tend to speak wolof often online. But I don't think we have forums like nairaland.

Omarbah:
From I know Thiam as mostly Toucouleur, they have a long standing rivalry with the Tall. If you read Amkoulel l'Enfant Peul from Ampathe, you will see how their rivalry was intense. The rivalry between Tidjani Caam( Thiam) and Aguibou Tall( son of Eldhaj Umar) which eventually led to Tidjani being emprisoned by the French is discussed at length. It will show how a problem about a Mosque in the Tall family destroyed by the Thiams in Futa Toro took a nasty turn. They couldnt let it go even after conquering lands in Mali, being far away from home and overtaken by the French.
I havent read Senghor to be honest. I liked his pragmatism as a statemen though I disagree with him jailing Mamadou Dia.
My favorite Senegalese politicians for the independence days are Valdiodio Ndiaye and Mamadou Dia. I share their vision of a Senegalese economy being independent of France. But I guess the clerics had too much to lose.
I love Senegal. It is the second country of every Pullo.

No I am like you too I don't like Senghor's politics. But I am refering to his dimension as a poet; he was a great poet.
Joal je me rapelle...

Omarbah:
From I know Thiam as mostly Toucouleur, they have a long standing rivalry with the Tall. If you read Amkoulel l'Enfant Peul from Ampathe, you will see how their rivalry was intense. The rivalry between Tidjani Caam( Thiam) and Aguibou Tall( son of Eldhaj Umar) which eventually led to Tidjani being emprisoned by the French is discussed at length. It will show how a problem about a Mosque in the Tall family destroyed by the Thiams in Futa Toro took a nasty turn. They couldnt let it go even after conquering lands in Mali, being far away from home and overtaken by the French.
I havent read Senghor to be honest. I liked his pragmatism as a statemen though I disagree with him jailing Mamadou Dia.
My favorite Senegalese politicians for the independence days are Valdiodio Ndiaye and Mamadou Dia. I share their vision of a Senegalese economy being independent of France. But I guess the clerics had too much to lose.
I love Senegal. It is the second country of every Pullo.

Yes I have read Amkoullel a long time ago; Hampate's step father in the book was also a Thiam. Was it Tidiane Thiam because I remember that he was emprisoned in today's Burkina faso. The difference is the Thiam in Mali are mostly Toucouleurs who came with El hadj Omar.
In Senegal although there are many Thiam toucouleurs; the most numerous Thiam are wolof and are blacksmiths.
People such as Tidiane Thiam; Akon (Alioune Badara Thiam); Amy Mbacke Thiam (former athlete) and many others are all Wolof and all blacksmiths.
Now these Thiam who are Wolof are in origin Toucouleurs who assimilated in Wolof culture many centuries ago; hence their name.
The toucouleur Thiam were also gnegno for many of them but since Abdou Kader Kane Torodo revolution; many of them see themselves today as torodo; not bailo.
There are also Thiam who are Wolof and are not blacksmith but Thiam is a blacksmith and a toucouleur name in origin.
The Thiam who are blacksmiths (mostly wolofs) are praised ''Thiam Babel Demba Thiam''; the Thiam who are not castes/gnegno are praised ''Thiam Demba Bokar'' or simply ''Seydi Thiam'' when they are Toucoulor.
They all have the same ancestors.

Fulaman198:
LOL there is no Neddo ko bandam movement going on Wolof princess. We welcome you guys, you just have to realise that a Fulani thread on a Nigerian forum is not always liked lolllll.

With that said, @OmarBah, the Bot banned you sorry about that, it's a very touchy bot.

Oh really? Fulanis are cool
You should maybe do more open threads about everything.
I'm the only wolof there Thiendella is not here; I need to see more Wolofs but maybe I should stick to Senegalese forums.
Btw nairaland is great I am a panafricanist so I really like to discover more cultures of Africa. I've learnt a lost since coming here.

Omarbah:
Lol they can be prone to xenephobia which is why having family ties with the local groups can be very important.
Tidjane contributed to a book called "qu'est ce qu'un francais?" . It is a collective work where his contribution is titled "La France est une idee, etre Francais une emotion" where he says this about his father

"Mon père, qui était encore vivant quand je commençai à travailler sur le présent texte et qui depuis, nous a quittés, dans sa quatre-vingt-sixième année. Mon père, le fils de Dagana, petite bourgade sur les rives du fleuve Sénégal, fleuve si majestueux, si vital, où la France dans son désir d’expansion est venue tenter de faire d’enfants africains de petits français.

Improbable rencontre entre un enfant africain de neuf ans et une idée si séduisante, celle d’une république où tous, enfant Toucouleur ou enfant de la Corrèze seraient égaux et auraient les mêmes droits, devoirs et chances. Mon père, inscrit d’autorité à l’école par un représentant de cette France républicaine, commandant de cercle éclairé, qui sut passer outre les objections de mon grand-père. Mon grand-père avait en effet préféré se laisser arrêter plutôt que d’envoyer l’aîné de ses fils, son héritier, à l’école, craignant qu’il ne devînt un étranger pour lui et ne parlât une autre langue que la sienne."

Now as much as Africans can consider him African, I bet youm Europeans see him an Afro European.

Thieum! Ali Baba Coumba Naar! (it's a expression to show how I am impressed)
Do you read a lot? You sounds like; I do too . Do you like Senghor's poems?
You like Senegal very much from what I see. It is an honour to see my country and culture appreciated greatly on this forum.
Oh yeah Habib and Amadou Thiam father is Mabousso Thiam Fatim Seye; I know them they are great people from Dagana. After being a minister Amadou was also Cote d'Ivoire Ambassador in Morocco. They are all brillant in that family; Habib Thiam also has a son named Mabousso Thiam who is a great economist. It is sad that in Senegal caste question sometimes limit individuals.
It's not only to feel more integrated, although it's part of it, it is also because they really are Ivorians; they're from Senegal but were born in CV and feel Ivorians; they present themselves as such.
By the way majority of Thiam are Wolof.

Fulaman198:
Great information you both.

But Fula is this thread still open to non Fulani like us; I only see you guys (bandirabes) there. Stop the neddo ko bandoum and invite everyone.
Otherwise I'm migrating to the Yoruba threads.

Omarbah:
Glad to hear from you sister. It has been a long time.
As for Thiam, his family does have Senegalese, toucouleur origins. Part of their family is still there. Even on of his uncles was Prime Minister during Diouf's term as President. Now due to their mother's origins, in Cote d'Ivoire it is only normal and smart to claim their Baoule origins ( I would do the same ). This will confer to their family in the country, political and economic influence.
His identity just like that of many Africans living in Cote d'Ivoire who have Senegalese, Malian or Guinean origins is complex. For example, in the UK , he is seen by other bankers as a french man due to his french nationality and university education.

Yeah long time no see... I am doing well thanks Omar.
In fact Tidiane Thiam is not even 50% Ivorian but 25%. He is 50%Wolof. His father Amadou Thiam is a Wolof ''Walo-Walo'' from Dagana. He came to Ivory Coast young in 1945 and was a minister of information under Houphouet.
Tidiane's uncle on his father side, the one you're talking about, is Habib Thiam, yes famous prime minister under Senghor. They are Wolof and gnegno (blacksmiths) I think; if that matter.
Now I he was part Toucouleur it would be on his mother side 25% because his mother Marietou Sow has a Senegalese father Pape Magor Sow (and I don't even think they are toucouleurs because pape magor sounds very wolof; despite the surname) and an Ivorian mother (Marietou's mother is Houphouet's sister). He is part Baoule because his grandmother.
But since Houphoet was very open-minded; they really identify as Ivoirians and Baoules. On that subject; just the other day, one guy from Ivory Coast was asking me how a Wolof man can be a Baoule chief.

Omarbah:
Thiam is a Tukulor last name. I dont like to use the word hal Pulaaren to describe people.
I prefer Pullo, that's it. So he is a Pullo.

Omar Bah, hello brother how are you
Sorry to digress your thread but Tidiane Thiam is not Toucouleur sha
He is a Baoule prince from Ivory Coast, or at least they see themselves as from the Akoue clan, his brother is even one of their local chiefs.