₦airaland Forum

Omarbah: there we go, it's like seneweb.com. Mbalax which is pretty much what Senegalese music is, has Serer origins. As for the kingdoms, I think it's debatable. Let's start with Takrur which flourished at the same time as the Empire of Ghana and gave its name to pretty every single west African going to Arab lands. The Imamate of Futa Toro was one of the most well organized and disciplined in the history of this continent. And it is truly a blueprint for a future Islamic state if there is one to rise on this part of the continent.
Faidherbe had much praise for the organizing skills of the Fulbe.
I love Wolofs, I ain't got no problem with them. But they should be comfortable with others speaking a different language. Just because Mande, Diola and Serer willingly accept Wolof and let go of theirs doesn't mean Fulbe have to do it.

Oh, I go to seneweb everyday and there aren't ethnic problems there, the lone problems are coming from trolls trying to pass themselves as Peuls.
Mbalakh music is an adaptation of Cuban salsa mixed to Senegalese rythms (Wolof, serer, Fula and others).
The problem is there wasn't only Fula living in Tekrour, Wolof (the ancestors of what will become wolof people) and serer lived in Futa before and serer left for the south.
As a Guinean you cannot have any problem with Wolof or Fulas or any other ethnic group in Senegal because beyond our different cultures all Senegalese are one. There is not ethnicism in Senegal (I can't say the same for Guinea).
Ndiadiane our first Wolof king had a Tukuloor mother, yet he also had a Fulani wife named Oufa and their son became the ancestor of the Fulani aristocracy in Jolof kingdom. Ndiadiane Wolof wifes bore the Wolof kings. In Jolof Wolof and Fula came from one ancestor Ndiadiane who was mixed race. We are brothers, and nobody can separate brothers.

Fulaman198: LOL you said sha ROFLLLLLL

Lol nairaland starting nigeriazing me

Omarbah: The cultural differences, Dialas being most animists, the fact that their region is more fertile that the other parts of Senegal and also the presence of the other groups coming from the North to farm on their land pose problems.
I think the Diolas truly feel marginalized and ostracized by the other groups. Wolofs and Fulbe have at least something in common, Islam.
The resistance is not intense though I must admit.

That thing is a scam, Casamance people are complaining about mines killing people. Those mines were installed by the MFDC rebels, yet it's the Senegalese army who removes them and face criticism. In 30 years old of pseudo war independentists never succeeded to occupy one village. They hide in the bush instead. Casamance would be the most beautiful and developed part of Senegal if it wasn't for that rebellion. Wolof and Fulbe have a lot more in common than Islam, Wolof culture comes from Fulbe, but yet they are the most open minded people in the country.
MFDC rebels have to realize that Casamance will never be independent.

Omarbah: nanga def ?

Mangui Fi rek.

Fulaman198: What they don't understand is that embracing one's language and wanting to maintain your own culture has nothing to even do with racism. It's like the French or English telling Africans that they MUST absolutely speak only French or English or they will be branded as racists for speaking their native tongue. Someone needs to tell the Wolof's that. It truly doesn't make sense. It's as if the Fulani speaking population in Senegal is forced to do something they want to do.

I can now see why the Toroobe keep to themselves. If anything no offence to the Wolof, they seem to be acting a bit 'tribalist' by attempting to enforce their own language on non-Wolof.

The thing is we (Wolofs) are the majority, 46% of the population. We had the greatest kingdoms, our music is the best, we dress better and our food is the best! We poppin

That's why in Sereer villages they prefer cooking thieb or wolof couscous instead of their sereer couscous. In Fulani village people who can afford it eat Wolof rice, it's so much better than latchiri haako ahaha! We the best!

Omarbah: Just wondering are you Senegalese?

Yes I am.

Fulaman198: What they don't understand is that embracing one's language and wanting to maintain your own culture has nothing to even do with racism. It's like the French or English telling Africans that they MUST absolutely speak only French or English or they will be branded as racists for speaking their native tongue. Someone needs to tell the Wolof's that. It truly doesn't make sense. It's as if the Fulani speaking population in Senegal is forced to do something they want to do.

I can now see why the Toroobe keep to themselves. If anything no offence to the Wolof, they seem to be acting a bit 'tribalist' by attempting to enforce their own language on non-Wolof.

That term sha!

Omarbah: that's the thing, other ethnic groups are abandoning their language to embrace wolof. Serers like
Youssou N'Dour only speak Wolof. But the Fulbe refused to do so therefore they are branded as "racists".
Some Wolof would tell you that a Torodo is more racist than a white person just because the former loves and embraces his
identity and does not want to let go of it.
The war in Casamance is in part due to it, the Wolofs pushing their language and culture on the Diolas.

To me the war in Casamance is just a mafia driven by some Diola rebels. Even Diola people are fed up by the rebellion, notice all the ethnic groups living in Casamance: Diola, Peuls, Bainouks, Mandinkas, Balantes. And yet the MFDC (the rebellion movement) is only composed of Diolas. Because the other ethnic group of Casamance do not care. It's just a scam.

Omarbah: that's the thing, other ethnic groups are abandoning their language to embrace wolof. Serers like
Youssou N'Dour only speak Wolof. But the Fulbe refused to do so therefore they are branded as "racists".
Some Wolof would tell you that a Torodo is more racist than a white person just because the former loves and embraces his
identity and does not want to let go of it.
The war in Casamance is in part due to it, the Wolofs pushing their language and culture on the Diolas.

I will just have to add something here because I see that the word Torodo is used all the time here. Torodo is not synonymous to Toucouleur. Torodo or Torobes, Bailo, Ceddo, Bambado, Diawando or even Maccudo are just castes or social stratifications among Toucouleur or Haalpular people. Just a little clarification to avoid confusion.

Omarbah: It will ruin the the moment. I want him to see the look on their faces that's all. Senegalese tend not to like it when they see it one of their own speak Pulaar for some reason. The radio stations in Dakar used to boycott Baba Maal because he only sings in Pulaar. I go on Seneweb from time to time and Fulbe are often attacked for "liking" to speak their language. I guess the Wolof want to dominate them in all ways which will not work.

Yeah I agree Nigerians don't have a good reputation there. It's not the whole Senegalese, as you said it's the Wolof who don't like people speak anything but Wolof.

Omarbah: Don't let them know you are Nigerians. Just approach them as if you were Senegalese and speak Pulaar.
It'd be perfect if you had another Fula brother with you.

Besides that the Pulaar spoken differs, I know when a Guinean Fula speaks, so people will know that he isn't Senegalese anyway.

Omarbah: Don't let them know you are Nigerians. Just approach them as if you were Senegalese and speak Pulaar.
It'd be perfect if you had another Fula brother with you.

Lol, what would happen if he let them know that he is Nigerian?

Omarbah: e and Tukulor is that the latter are usually called Pullo Torodo and in plural Fulbe Torobe. I know this because Dinguiraye, Guinea is one of their cities

-Yes, just like in Mali, El Hadj Omar brought his Tukuloor troops there. I know a Tukuloor guy from Guinea, El Hadj Omar was really a panafricanist who was ahead on his time. But in origin Tukuloor are from Fuuta which is Senegal and Mauritania, most of those who emigrated to Mali and Guinea did it in the 19th century to follow el hadj Omar.


The odd thing between Fulbd Tukulor is that the latter are usually called Pullo Torodo and in plural Fulbe Torobe. I know this because Dinguiraye, Guinea is one of their cities. The use of the word Tukulor to describe them was brought by the French who saw differences in their physical appearance with the other Fulbe. Take the Sullubawa Fulani of Northern Nigeria, they are of Tukulor descent but why do they refer to themselves as Fulani exclusively?
As far as the organized kingdoms are concerned, the nomadic Fulbe under Koli Tenguella established the Denianke kingdom A.K.A The Empire of Great Pullo by the Portuguese in 1490 and lasted till 1776.

-That's exact and almaamy Abdul Kader Kane overthrew the last animist satigui (fulani king) of Fuuta to establish the Torobe revolution.

It encompassed present day Futa Toro and part of Futa Jallon.

-Exact, Koli was himself from Futa Jallon

This "Yette Ba" (like me ) dynasty followed an African religion at the time and used to be in conflict with the Muslim Fulas. Tierno Monenembo of Guinea actually wrote a book entitled "Peuls"

-I have read Peuls of Monenembo, good book.

where he mentioned how Fulbe used to look down upon their brothers that practiced the religion of the "Moors" as they called it back then. It is the rise of Islam in the region that brought the demise of the empire with Souleymane Baal and Abdoul Kader Kane as the leaders of what should be called an Islamic revolution. The T[b]orobe were a sort of political party (or caste)[/b]

-Actually Abdul Kader Kane wanted to suppress the inegalitarian caste system among tukuloors. The interesting thing is that he became almaamy (he was the first almaamy) by vote, he was against the monarchic dynasty that was established by the Denianke. The Torobe (singular torodo) are thus as you said a cast of scholars, and almaamy Kane invited anybody who was a scholar to join the Torobe. Meaning that a scholar from the caste of the blacksmiths could be a torodo and live with the earnings of his teachings instead being at the smithy. A lot of people used (in the good sense) that system to elevate themselves in the social hierarchy.
An ex: El Hadj Omar family, who at the origin were not Torodo.

in those days. The name was given to them because the Quranic teachers would send their Talibe(students) to beg thus Torobe(beggers).

The real conflict between Umar Tall and the other Fulanis was due to the fact that he wanted to spread the Tijāniyyah sufi tariqa in West Africa and met resistance with those of the Qadriya and other brotherhoods.

-He also wanted a kingdom for posterity, in my opinion. I heard he is not really liked in Mali, especially among the Bambara lol, but he is loved in Fuuta. You should read Segu of Maryse Conde if you haven't yet, it's a novel but an excellent one and she describes very brightly the episode where El Hadj Omar took Segu and El Hadj Omar as a person himself

In fact, on his way back home from Mecca he made a stop in Sokoto where he made a bid for power. When the brother of Uthman Dan Fodio, Abdullahi died, El Hadj Umar produced a letter in front of the council claiming power according to Abdullahi's wishes. Muhammed Bello, the son of Dan Fodio told him that the Caliphate was founded by his father, not by Abdullahi and that he should leave their territory. When he went to Futa Toro(his home) he was rejected there too.

-Ahaha the Tukuloor mentality, he was not from a ruler class. . Nobody is a prophet in his own land. Despite that he conquered an empire.


So he went to Futa Jallon where Almamy Umaru was warned not to welcome him. That's why he was sent to Dinguiraye. As long as he waged war on the Bambara of Segu, it was all good, they didn't have a problem with it.
As for the resentment

-That's a big word lol. I don't think there is a resentment between Toukouleur and Fulani, Torobe are just a caste among the Toucouleur. If there is a resentment it should be the other way around.

Torobe might have toward other Fulanis, I think it is due to how traditional and endogamic they are. They REALLY love their culture. I remember I once went on a summer vacation to Dakar where I would go to stores (mostly owned by Fulanis or Fulfulde speakers)

-Are you a fulani from Guinea? Most of the stores are owned by Guinean fulanis

and speak french. Recognizing that I am a Pullo, they would automatically ask me if I can't speak my language. . They are all sedentary while some other Fulas are nomads so there are some conflicts related to land. This economic factor is in my opinion the biggest factor.
But overall, I think there is much love between the two. Baba Maal refers to ALL of us as Fula.

-It is the same people, Macky Sall has a toucouleur name but I have heard that he is Fulani, not Toucouleur. It's really the same people, the thing is that Senegal is a country of castes, everything is stratified, especially among haal pulaar.
Besides that Baaba Maal is an artist, he has to please everybody lol.


Plus politicians of "Tukulor" and Fulani descents have been opposed to grouping the two differently in the national census.

-Really? Maybe in Mauritania, never heard such in Senegal, interesting...

So they are all grouped under "Fula" today. I love it, it destroys the distinction brought by the colonialists.

Yes in Senegal about 22% (official stats) are Peuls, Toucouleurs and Peuls included.

Great thread

[quote author=Omarbah]The odd thing between Fulbe and Tukulor is that the latter are usually called Pullo Torodo and in plural Fulbe Torobe. I know this because Dinguiraye, Guinea is one of their cities. The use of the word Tukulor to describe them was brought by the French who saw differences in their physical appearance with the other Fulbe. Take the Sullubawa Fulani of Northern Nigeria, they are of Tukulor descent but why do they refer to themselves as Fulani exclusively?

There is an ongoing debate about the origin of the name Tukuloor, some say it is a deformation of ''tout couleurs'' (all colors) a denomination the French gave them not because of their differences with other Fulbe but because because of the different hues of their skin which was kinda rare among one ethnic group (some Tukuloor are very light and others darker, while most of the Wolof or Sereer are dark for example).
A more plausible explanation is that Toukouleur is a deformation of Tekrour or Tekrouri (inhabitant of the Tekrour empire), the kingdom that preceded Fuuta Tooro in Northern Senegal.
To conclude what is the exact origin of the denomination of Tukuloor, it's just like the origin of the name Senegal, nobody really knows.

Bororojo: ha! looolll she didnt indicate her sex....... and I automatically assumed, especially since she is so versed in history........ innate sexist sentiments most people have ...... forgive me sister takamba

Ahahaha, no problem my brother

Fulaman198: Wow, that makes me a bit angry. Why do they dislike us so much? We speak the same language don't we? I mean what's going on there? When it suits them, they call themselves Fulani, but I guess when they are back in Senegal or Mauritania, they act anyhow towards their brothers. It's ridiculous. What is the basis of their hate?

Once again I'm not talking for every Tukulor. I don't think that they dislike Fulani, it's just the way they are.
Do you know that El Hadj Omar Tall fought against the Fulani of Hamdallaye in Mali, and the latter had to ally themselves with the Bambara to fight the Tukulor.
To Tukulor people, nedo ko bandoum is more important than everything. They like very much their culture and their customs which is a good thing. I don't know how they act when they are with foreign Fulani, but they don't act anyhow toward fulani, they can despise people but they are very correct and respectful people too. And I don't know somewhere else but in Senegal Tukulor call themselves haal pulaar, not pullo. Some of them would even correct you if you call them pullo.
I think that one of the reason of that feeling of superiority is because they and the Soninke were the first islamized people in Senegal. They also, at the difference of the Fulani (at least in Senegal) established powerful and well organized kingdoms. Futa Tooro kingdoms and dynasties were mostly Tukulor. When at that time the majority of Senegal Fulas were nomad and did not have organized kingdoms.
They prefer to stick to themselves. They are just not pro melting pot, but paradoxically they are somehow the product of a melting pot.
They contributed hugely to Senegal culture and history, almost all Wolof marabouts and religious figures are Tukulor by origin.

Bororojo: Kikikiki....lol @Hitler analogy..... if you ask most Fulanis thugh, they will tell you "Pure" > "Mixed" worse still if the mixed cant even speak Fulfulde. (at least where i come from)
since you are from sneegal I also have another question....... I said it before on this same page that a Mauritanian told me the Tukulor are the greatest enemies of the Fulani..... do you know what he might have meant by that? I understand it might be his personal opinion.... but could you manage to sympathize with the point of view he might have been coming from?

The Tukulor are special people, I mean by that that they don't really like any ethnic group except themselves. Some of the Tukulor I talked to despised the Fulani (but they basically despise everyone). Even between themselves the higher castes despise the lower castes who also despise the lowest castes. There are still people considered as slaves and despised as such among them, I personally witnessed it.
This is not the case for every Tukulor, the new generation is more open minded, but still...
One Tukulor proverb used to say: "If you see a dog passing, throw your shoe at it, but in case you miss it and it touch a Wolof instead, no problem, you still threw your shoe to a dog..."
I hope you understand their mentality . But I am part Tukulor so I have the right to bash them.

Bororojo: I believe you are from Senegal?
I dont know about you area, but in my neck of the woods, the nomads and their recent descendants are the Purest Fulanis (that includes myself and my close and distant people)....... The only place where I have found equivalents are some other parts of Nigeria/Cameroon, and Fouta Djallon. (Althugh Fouta Djallon Fulbe dont have true nomads anymore, i wonder why) I was speaking to this Pullo from Guinea, and i shared with him a picture of a Nomad with his cows.... and he said "Oh I am so proud", this is the depiction of our ancestors and roots"
I was like uhhhm..... you realize this pic is from 2014 bro?

Yes I am.
From the part of the world I come from too, there are pure Fulani and most of them are still nomads. I did say that sedentarity in multicultural places makes intertribal marriages more prevalent, more diversity= more mixing.
I personally don't believe that being more or less "pure" defines the worth of the person . (Otherwise Hitler would still be winning )
What really carry Fulani culture is the Pulaku.
My two cents...

BahPulo: Now you have made me really ashamed of myself. Sorry did not mean to come off like that. But the fact that a king married a woman of another tribe to form alliance does not mean everyone in the community will follow him. marriage in most Fula families is very much arranged to these days.

Don't be ashamed, I understand perfectly that we react sometimes with passion to things we take personally.
Of course what is valid for the kings is not for commoners, i said it too.
Are you Guinean fulani (I'm asking this because of the way you're writing your Bah)
Mbada

BahPulo: @ bororojo u have a point there but those cases are not the reasons we are discussing here after all every child answers his father last name at least in Africa. But the notion that half of guinea fulanis are mixed with manlinkhe is pure lie and intentional from that poster. The only 2 states you see this in guinea are telimile and mamou this make sense because of all the Fula states these 2 are ve in close proximity with the manlinkhe. Guinean Fulani follow a caste system so unless a femal non Fula or 'machudo' has been what they call rendindhe she can't marry into a family of important blood line. Case in point Almamy Bakar Biro of timbo's mom she was a machuddo debo but had to be rendindhe before she the Almamy's dad.
@ Fulaman thank you bandham nice be here again.

Hello @BahPullo, I am intervening because you are maybe talking about I contribution I made earlier. Just to make a little clarification, I talked about the intermarriage of the Fulanis I did state the 3 reasons i believe led to intermarriage and I said that it was not a fulani specificity. I mentionned as an example that some fulani rulers did have mothers from other ethnic group as a form of alliance. All of these are facts and happened in all Fulani societies.
Fulaman asked me a question about Daby Balde who is Poulo Firdo, not from Fouta Djallon. I did not talk about specifications or case by case country, we all know that it is easy for a nomad tribe to intermix with others. #facts.
All of these are facts, no lies there.
No need to use some harsh words either to state opinions, we are happily exchanging and learning from each others. I will happily learn from your contributions as well.
With all my respect, salam.

.

Fulaman198: Walahi some people have been posting pictures of non-Pullos in here. A lot of the posts are of Fulbe, but there are some that are showing Amhara and mixed breeds. Liptaako, Gowabe, Jelgobe, Wodaabe and Mbororo'en, Fulbe Djeeri, etc. etc. is what I want to see.

You are right, I have never seen Bideew Bou Bess sing in Pulaar. My favourite Fulani speaking singers from Senegal are Ousmane Gangue, Baaba Maal, Mansour Seck, Malick Pathe Sow, Rahmane Diallo, Alassane Sy, Omar Ka, and a few others that I forget their name who sang "Ainaabe nai"?

In any case, like in that one song Fulbe Niger where the woman says "Pullo funa pullo, fulfulde duna gooto" meaning Fulani is Fulani, one language, one people. I salute my Senegalese brothers and sisters, mi salmini maa bandiraabe haal'pularen senegalbe, bamtaare e teddungal fulbe!

Ousmane Gangue is Mauritanian, the guy is sharp, he knows better things !
There are some good female singers as well like the Yela singers who use calabashes and others like Fatim Samba Diop or Acca Welle.
What does "Ainaabe nai" mean? I don't know of a specific song named like that but I've heard that term in Baaba Maal songs.

Fulaman198: No problem, I like their music too. Do they not ever sing in Pulaar/Fulfulde? I have only heard Wolof from them. I basically posted those videos to show the 'blackness' of the Fulani people. Especially the 'Birds of the Wilderness' video of the White American guy talking.

Lol, how can someone doubt of the blackness of Fulanis ?
Bideew Bou Bess barely sing in Pulaar, most of their songs are in Wolof.

Fulaman198:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSr8KHKJO7M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kZL2f-GrqY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X82ncPmu7Q8

Good music Fulaman. Can I add this one? Bideew Bou Bess are paying here tribute to their Haalpulaar origin. I know the song is mainly in Wolof and the Band is Toucouleur and that the thread is for Fulani but it's all the same and I wanted to share it. Good music is good music


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWFTAP8WO2A

It's funny how I can recognize in the pics the fulas from Senegal or Mauritania.
Anyway nice thread, keep it up!