RedboneSmith:

I thought ara meant 'body' as in singular. I didn't know it meant a group of people (plural).

Different tonal markings.

Ara [M-M] = Body
Ara [M-H] = People

The ‘ADA’ (See Frame-1):
The claim nowadays by Binis (Edos) that this royal emblem originated with them is exposed as a falsehood by linguistics and archaeology.
.
.
As per the linguistic evidence, the verb ‘dá’ (in ‘àdá’) is “to split”, as well as “to judge” as can be seen in the Yoruba dictionary. See Frame-2

Though these two meanings appear different, they actually both have semantic connection.

At the very center of ‘judging’ is the concept of ‘separating’ the truth from untruths, the wheat from the chaff, (the head from the body), etc.

Thus, ‘àdá’ literally signifies “the splitter”. The royal significance of this is therefore that:

The possession of this emblem by a royal does confer on them certain authority to pronounce judgements — including that of life and death.

This Àdá has, for this reason, been translated by some as “Sword of Justice”. See Frame-3.

It is only in Yoruba language that ‘àdá’ finds its literal and etymological derivation which also aligns with the royal significance of the object.
.
.
The archaeological evidence of the Ifẹ̀ roots of the royal Àdá consist of a classical-era carving of a royal Àdá on a living-rock at Agídí site, Ifẹ̀.

Refer to Frame-4 for a photograph of the Àdá petroglyph. (From: Frank Willett, 2004:S145).

This is the earliest hard evidence of this object from anywhere within Nigeria. This fact as well as the etymological roots do reaffirm Ifẹ̀ as the origin and source of the royal Àdá emblem.
——

Credit: From Ọlá-Bọ́lá (@theolabola) on 𝕏 (Twitter).

adamusuleiman1:
Idumagbo
Idu-Arogbo later shortened to Idumagbo. Settlement of the Arogbo Izon.

Your Ijaw (Izon) connection to IduMagbo is contrary to the known historical facts about the site.

Historically, the Idumagbo wharf was from early times the occupational site of the Ijebu trading group.

So if the term “ìdúmàgbò” has its etymology to do with an immigrant trading group, then it is the Ijebu group.

Moreover, the term could also simply have to do with some natural/geographic features of the site.

Certainly not “Arogbo-Izon”.
——
PS: You should also have referenced the writer/source from which the write-ups here on Èkó, Etí-Ọ̀sà, Ìdú and Oṣòdì were taken. It’s plagiarism to leave that out.✌🏾

samuk:

Most none Benin or Yoruba people who are not emotionally attached to the history will use their objective minds and sense of reasoning to see the history for what it is.

The simple question for a sensible person, will be which is more plausible between Oduduwa falling from the sky as the Yoruba claimed or Oduduwa being a Benin prince according to Benin traditions

Okay!

Thank you for conceding (by running away from the argument) that your king is “son of Adimula”. Ooni of Ife is Adimula. Adimula is not from Benin. Your king is the son of the Ooni of Ife. 🤭

This fact (among several others)at once debunks the new & modern Bini narrative which tries to hijack the man Oduduwa and make him a Benin man. Historical scholarship has also debunked this newly concocted Benin narrative because it contradicts the ancient & established Benin narratives. Trashed‼️
———
Now to the new topic you want to bring up as a face-saving grace:

If he’s not from Heaven, then he must be from Benin?NO, lol.😅 Let me educate you on words & opposite: The opposite of Heaven is not Benin. Lol.

In other words if a human is not from a literal Heaven well he could be an aborigine of Ife amongst 1000s of other possible geographical locations in Yorubaland.

The same Ife traditions which holds a Heavenly origin (from a religious & metaphysical standpoint) for Ogun Oduduwa, Ọbatala, Ọṣun, et al. of course also realize (from a earthly & historical POV) that Oduduwa is an Ifẹ native, precisely from one of the surrounding hills.

That is, while Jesus Christ is Believed from a religious & metaphysical standpoint to have come down from Heaven (John 6:38); he’s also Known from an earthly & historical POV to be from Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1).

Moreover, in Benin classical traditions Ogiso Igodo is believed to have come down from Heaven, & in the same Benin traditions is also said to have being from Ife (per classics) or a native Edo (per the new modern narrative from Edo blogs).

samuk:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/12/the-benin-prince-who-founded-ile-ife/

Trying to prove the “story” is true by pasting a link that simply tells same story? Lol 😂

Doesn’t work that way, at least for those with a brain.

As historians have demonstrated, the new Bini story which tries to hijack Oduduwa & make him a Bini is a deliberately unauthentic pseudohistorical narrative.

Moreover, the praise-styling of Bini ọbas which name them as “Son of Adimula, ikeji oriṣa” actually destroys the pseudo historical content of your link.

(1) Adimula is not from Benin.

(2) Your Oba = Son of Adimula.

(3) Adimula = Ooni of Ife.

(4) Your Oba = Son of Ooni of Ife.

samuk:
[b]Adimila[/b]Historically there is no Adimila in Benin history.

Politically, the Oba will not reject any association, especially when it's coming from those with large populations.

The desire of the people of old Mid West people to create a separate state from the Western region was partly made possible by assistance from Nnamdi Azikiwe NCNC. Zik was to later made it known in his autobiography that he had Benin ancestry.

I don't think the Oba of Benin have anything to lose if it matters to the yoruba so much that the oba is a son of Oduduwa, who the Benin palace believe is Ekaladerhan.

If you believe that oba of Benin is the son of Oduduwa, you must also believe that Oduduwa is the Benin prince Ekaladerhan.

Lol.

You think you’re clever by writing a reply and carefully avoiding my moniker so I would miss notification 😂

Yes, there’s no personage from Benin called Adimula.

Adimula is a title of all Ooni[s] (from Oduduwa to the present Ooni) & they’re not from Benin like you said.

If your king was styled as “Acquaintance of Adimula”, well then you might give us the crap of “association”.

On the contrary, your king was styled as fvcking “Son of Adimula, Ikeji oriṣa”.

And guess what he did when one of his Edo slaves said that to his face: He smiled from ear to ear.

There’s no escaping from this, samuk: Adimula is “the Ooni of Ife”. Your ọba is the son of Adimula. Your ọba is the son of the Ooni of Ife.

Cheers!

Thebadpolitican:
Adimila has never been a king in Benin, so if he is a son of Adimila then the father must have been a king, then again Adimila is not a yoruba world, the oba can as well be praised in ibo too by a Benin person

It’s not about IF, it’s about FACT.

Your king is styled to his own face as: “SON of Adimula, ikeji oriṣa”

Yes, the phrase “Adimula, ikeji oriṣa” (with which your king is praised) is a pure Yoruba phrase. Lol.

More still, that is precisely one of the titles of the Ooni of Ife.

Yes, your king grins from ear to ear when he is praised as the SON of the Ooni of Ife.

So, it’s beyond being praised in Yoruba (and neglecting Edo language).

It’s actually about whose SON your king is & in respect of which he dared not complain.

Cheers!

Thebadpolitican:
Praise names are not constant, the are subjective to the praiser, thesedays with a mix of cultures anything goes you can praise a Benin king with any language not just benin only even with ibo

I saw a Benin man on yourube praising the oba with Yoruba words

On the son of adimila this is unlikely it would be a yoruba word, definitely a Benin idol, no kings in Benin history has such name this current oba of Benin accept praises from different dialect unlike the previous

Lol. It is one thing to praise your king in a language foreign to him.

It is another thing that the “praiser” is of the same ethnicity as your king; he praises your king in a language foreign to both him & your king; the praise words say your king is son to a certain Adimula who is king elsewhere; & your king sits right there proud of the praise words.

Thebadpolitican:
Your ooni is a fraud the oba of Benin still is older than it see the ooni at the bottom before awolowo came to do his trick

Even in as recent as the 1930s, etc. the conventional European spelling of “Ooni” was with a single “o”.

And the conventional European spelling of “Alaafin” was with a single “a”.

Yet this your screenshot is supposed to have come from Lord Lugard in the 1900s/1910s. DeyPlay 😂

Thebadpolitican:
The author of those praise name is a fraud a yoruba nairaland man

Are you saying we should belive a nairaland author over an authority from the palace

“Son of Adimula, Ikeji-oriṣa”!

What precisely is your defense?:

(1) That this ‘oríkì’ is fictitious, & is unheard of by the Bini kings or the Bini people?

(2) That this ‘oríkì’ indeed exists & is recognized by the Bini kings, but it doesn’t mean what it clearly says?
——
Which one?

absoluteSuccess:
Iwo ati awon eyan e ti pari ipade yin? You always meet on Thursdays I guess, now that I dare call your boss who he is, a dreadful cultist, you came out.

There's never a clique of killers that ever own up to their crime in the court until they are thoroughly investigated, how much more on social media and faceless forum?

By their fruits, we shall know them.

Lol.

What a pity!?

absoluteSuccess:
Now I began to talk about the plot of this guy so much, but forget all about it and we continued from the old thread on Yoruba history again. Then I was to give money to a guy who gave me an Oriki on the thread.

Then macof and his friend were horrible bunch of cynics. The guy I was owing asked me for the money and threatened to expose me on nairaland. I decided to see what will happen after.

So he did exposed me that I'm a fraud and I have not paid him as I've promised. @Kayusly. I was expecting the funniest mockery from macof and his partners as usual, but to my utmost surprise, all I got was a call on my phone from a problematic customer I have been avoiding asking me to bring my product again to Mushin.

Meanwhile, that was 6am thereabouts and the person I caught viewing the thread after the post was made was Tao11. I was expecting mockery, but what I got is a call from someone who has been asking for my product for almost a year.

absoluteSuccess:
My spirit was perturbed, this person has earlier told me she needed my product when she claimed to be sick, months after, she just happened to call at the nick of time, what manner of crazy coincidence is this?

I feel like this is a bailout package from someone who has been reading the thread and it's an opportunity to get me to go to the person. I just said to myself, guy, I will tell it as it is, this is Tao11 calling.

I said something to that effect on the thread, and somehow, I picked up the person's call the second time and she told me she will connect with me at Mushin around 11am before she goes to the class. I said okay.

Around the time, she began to call me back and forth, and I got 34 missed calls from her. Please, when this person, who is learned was sick, she didn't use this product. Now that she's up and about, why the desperation?

Wèrè dùn wò, ṣùgbọ́n kò ṣeé bí lọ́ mọ! 😢

Wait, where are your people? What are they doing about your case? Is this how they’ll be looking at you?

I pray God should give you the healing you need o.

AreaFada2:

Thanks my brother. My grouse is that we in Benin are not doing enough to bring Eastern Yoruba people of Benin descent closer.

Those over there who are aware of their Benin descent are very warm towards Edo people. In my case, my family still has houses and a street name with many relatives there. In the royal descendants' quarter no less. A bit like Ogbe in Benin. But even more specific. The family summoned immediately an oba of Owo joins the ancestors and take care of his funeral as a family affair.

But I wonder how many people today in Edo and Ondo not lucky enough to know that family connection on either side.

A time will come that if we in Benin don't reenforce the Edo connections over there, subsequent generations will take on only Oduduwa narrative to make their life easier in line with SW mainstream political position.

For example, how can a first class monarch who told me when alive that he was of Edo origin join his ancestors and Edo was not visibly represented at his obsequies? I have a copy of all letters of condolence (all were compiled) that other prominent monarchs/traditional rulers sent and none from Benin. We need to build bridges. A young energetic man called Imasuen is really trying in that regard though.

Oba of Ogba, King of Brass, Ekpeye, Yenagoa, Degema and many Ikwerre monarchs are bona fide Edo people. Even the Igede people in Benue are bona fide Edo, via Edo North.

You are correct. The monarchs and senior chiefs were planted Edo people to rule new territories. But those kings and elite could marry many wives and sire many children quickly. So over time, 30% or more of the people could easily be their descendants.

You Binis just lie to yourselves as a coping mechanism. 😂

.

RedboneSmith:
When people say Ilorin has an emir and not an ọba, the question I usually ask them is: do Ilorin people actually call their ruler 'emir' when they are not speaking English?

The answer I get is no. When Ilorin people talk about their ruler in their native language, what they call him is ọba.

'Emir' was introduced into our national discourse by the British. Even the emirs of Northern Nigeria are called sarki, and only called emir when English is being spoken. The Emir of Kano and the Emir of Katsina, are Sarkin Kano and Sarkin Katsina, respectively.

The Emir of Ilorin is Ọba Ilorin. Don't take my word for it, go and talk to an old non-English speaking Ilorin indigene.

True sha.

Balogunodua:


Tell me more about france... and your failed career 😁

. 🤣🤣

This is wickedness 🤣

Ghostwon82221:

Now this is you basically pretending to know how to translate French to English and also pretending to be a psychiatrist who did a psychoanalysis on a dead guy.
Once again, you can't do littéral translation when translating french to english, you have to know both languages and write an English sentence with the same meaning as the French one.
So this which you wrote is totally stupid. By the way it doesn't even qualify as literal translation. You just seem to be trying to place words convenient for your end goal.

What you did here is utter rubbish.

Do you know that “argumentum ad lapidem” (“appeal to the stone”) is still a fallacy? Lool.

In other words, what you should have demonstrated is that the French word “domaine” is not domain” in the English language as shown below. 😘

You need not have resorted to the classical failure of insulting the argument (as opposed to disproving it).

Did you do that out of desperation to write a reply? 🤭

Ghostwon82221:
Fair enough, the narrator didn't predict we would be having this debate around 178 years later. When referring to Curamo, he was talking about Lagos Island but that doesn't imply that the rest of what we now refer to as Lagos wasn't part of Benin, the precolonial maps indicate it was.

Sorry baldie, this was debunked here:

https://www.nairaland.com/7671910/british-bombardment-lagos-1851/2#122890496

And here:
https://www.nairaland.com/7671910/british-bombardment-lagos-1851/2#122891033

😂

Cheers baldie 👨‍🦲

He’s preparing his runaway speech already 👆🏾

Balogunodua:
You will soon deactivate this account 😁😂

🤣🤣

Ghostwon82221:
I literally have to stop at every line, to address a lie.
1) Tao is illogical and irrational
2) Tao is a liar, a compulsive liar, talking to Tao is just a huge waste of time. Lots of lines, each one of them is a lie to adresse.

Ghostwon82221:

I used to act like you when I was 10, this makes me wonder how old you are.

Ghostwon82221:
🤣😂😅Never met a Yoruba who didn't love a good lie and a good liar, you guys will never change.

Ghostwon82221:
Even though, I think and know you are a fool. If you get something right, I will gladly admit it, like I do when annoying students get something right.

You know projection won’t work, so why even try?

Now face the argument you should be defending. 🤭

You must be really convinced that I am a Bini person.

In other words, you strongly have the feeling that I’m no different from one of those you manipulate.

I wonder why you’re adamant with this hopeless idea despite evidence to the contrary. Listen, I am still me. I haven’t changed. I am still your nemesis.

Ghostwon82221:

Look, I'm trying to (lack of a better word) correct your poor submission. But you are interfering in my benevolent action. Ok, let me reply to this your statement before I go back to correcting your submission.

1) I never claimed that the narrator witnessed any naming.
2) I claimed rightfully that the narrator is giving an eyewitness account.
3) don't blame me for your lack of intellect

You claimed that the 1845 text is an eye eyewitness account.

Do you really understand what an eyewitness text is or you just use words to appear smart to Bini retards?

Lemme pretend you don’t, so you have no hiding:

An eyewitness account is a documentation of events which the author witnessed by himself/herself. 😝

✌🏾

Ghostwon82221:
Edit.
4)"c'est ainsi qu'ils la désignent" means "that is how they refer to it"

No it means “that’s how they designated it”.

Proof-1:
The French “désignent” signifies ”designate” in English. Very direct.

Proof-2:
As at the time when the author was writing this work in c. 1845, EVERY group REFER to “Lagos” as “Eko”.

In others words, it is meaningless to single out Ijebu in c. 1845 as the group who REFER to “Lagos” as “Eko”
———

In Conclusion: “Eko” (according to that book which you brought forward to shoot yourself in the head) was a name evolved by the Ijebu group for “Lagos”.

The author was clearly describing who named/coined the name “Eko” for “Lagos”. He identified them as the Ijebus — of course based on some received info.

No amount of Benin liars can twist away the fact that the French “désignent” is “designate” in English.

Take heart baldie!

Ghostwon82221:
Look, I do not like you, I do not want to have conversations with you. You have stalked me, you spend your time telling lies and pretending to have knowledge which you do not have. It takes you days to make a simple reply because you need to do lots of Google search in order to even know things which should be common knowledge.
You reason like a child which is what you are by your behaviour and confession. I'm not playing, I'm not pretending to have knowledge. I'm not trying to fool people with illogical statements. You do not belong in the same lane as me, you could definitely not hold a conversation with me in real life, because you won't be able to take days off each time you try to reply.

Ghostwon82221:
One of the reasons I don't like talking to you is that you lie constantly on everything, I remember reading some of your rantings, I saw entire sentences full with lies, almost every single word was a lie. It is hard to have a conversation with such a compulsive liar. You lie so much I can't keep up.

Now show us all the caption of "Van Benin Biafra".

Ghostwon82221:
When someone with the brain of a child believes she/he is smart and takes your fatigue (of talking to a fool) for proof she/he is right and smart...I give you Tao the fool.

I'm not going to address all of Tao's rubbish, I will just have some fun addressing some and then I will not reply the fool anymore.

The mad baldie is preparing his exit speech already.

As usual when TAO11 shows up, baldie flees never to look back for months or years to come.

You lose again! 😎

Ghostwon82221:

The paper is from 1845, and the name was already visible 200 years prior to 1845 (this proves that the narrator definitely didn't witness any naming)

Ghostwon82221:
Without even attempting to translate the French sentence, it is quite clear that the narrator didn't witness any naming of Lagos ! Just logic, he can't say who named it, he can only say how some people refer to it! That is what he does, he talks to different Africans and they tell him how they refer to the land.

You had said elsewhere that the author witnessed it tho. Lmao 🤣 See screenshot attached.

Do you now want to make up your mind or no still?

Lool.

Ghostwon82221:

1) just from a point of logic, did the narrator witness the "naming" ?

Lmao.

Now that your “Lagos was part of Benin” agenda has been debunked, you now have to shift goalpost to:

Whether the name “Eko” was truly named by Ijebus as the book claim.

Whether the author was an eyewitness to the naming ceremony of ”Lagos” as “Eko” by the Ijebus as claimed.

To answer these diversions tactics from what just hit you, I’ll like to refer you to the screenshot below as to show you where you already answered yourself.

I am not saying I agree with your answer to yourself, I am only asking you to make up your mind if you agree with yourself or not.

Did the author witness what he wrote or not? Please bear in mind that, it was you who brought the book🤭

2) This is the thing with you, you keep trying to give lectures on things you know nothing about.
You don't speak French but you believe you can teach French... (Like a fool).

3) if you knew even a little bit of French, then you would know that literal translation to English is the worse thing you can do, the structure of the French language is very different from that of Germanic languages (like German or English). My translation (I was always the best at version (translation) at the university)
4) in this context, "c'est ainsi qu'ils la désignent" means "that is how they refer to it"

In other words, we must pretend that you will tell the truth because you don’t mind been exposed. 🤣

No baldie! 🤭 Instead, sane people would rather rely on objective verifiable sources who have no horse in this race. Why should that not make sense to you?

These French sources maintain that the French word “designént” means “designate”.

Even your “refer” does not contradict this. It’s just non-precise. Liars love imprecision. It helps them escape.

You go nowhere! 😎

The beginning of the last kicks of a dying horse as usual. We shall debunk them as we love doing. 😎

Ghostwon82221:
1) in your own claim the precolonial Guinea didn't refer to a country but to a region.

And what difference does it being a country, or region, or town, or confederacy, etc. make to the argument which debunks your foolery? 😂

Let’s break it down to those you seek to deceive:

(I) In the 1400s/1500s, a relatively small region in the extreme western end of West Africa is Guinea.

(II) Later on from the ?late-1500s, 1600s; this name of a small region began to be applied to the whole of the West-Africa area from Sierra-Leone to Cameroon.

(III) In other words, a foolish dunce will interpret this to mean that all the West-African lands, kingdoms, & states, etc. from Sierra-Leone to Cameroon (including your Benin) were all owned by the original Guinea.

(IV) Whereas, the reality is simply that the name of the original Guinea was simply adopted by foreigners (as a matter of acquaintance & convenience) to describe the much wider West Africa from abroad.

(V) It is irrelevant whether the original place (i.e. the actual precolonial Guinea) was one town, a group of related towns, a kingdom, a confederacy, etc.

What matters is that its name was borrowed & applied to West Africa. The same happened with Takrur. 😉

2) the country named guinea in post colonial Africa wasn't called guinea in precolonial Africa and probably wasn't even a country in precolonial Africa.

The confusion you seek to perpetuate has been exposed above. Sorry!

In other words, it doesn’t matter if today’s Guinea is a country with President. Doesn’t matter if pre-colonial Guinea wasn’t a country with one President.

What matters is that its name (i.e. precolonial Guinea’s name) was borrowed & applied to West Africa. The same happened with Takrur. 😉

3) so the point which you are making which states (or implies) that countries names were used by Europeans to name vast regions is in a word false, and also stupid.

Yes your imagination (which you desperately seek to substitute as my argument) is false, stupid & more.

Again my argument is: The subset lent their name to the wider superset, while your ridiculous claim on the other hand is that this happens because the subset is the capital of a vast government/dominion. 🤦🏾‍♂️

4) Benin kingdom is not a post colonial country, it is a precolonial country. Your comparison is illogical.

You should have realized at this point that you’ve been exposed. You need be smart enough to realize it tho.

5) it would be understandable that people might add or remove territory to a region for various reasons, for example the region called Europe keeps changing, but I fail to understand why the boundaries of actual countries would be treated in such a cavalier way.

I hope you know circular reasoning is still a fallacy. It is null & void. Please take note of this going forward. I wouldn’t want to repeat myself.

In other words, what you intend to prove is that:
Benin owned the circumjacent territories outside of its boundaries.

What you’re adducing as “proof” is that:
Somethings similar happened in Europe.

Me:
Lol 🙃

6) yet again, you provide your opinions and confuse them with facts.

Are we projecting now??
Projection is how to defend & win your argument?

Do better! 😎

Ghostwon82221:
1) was Biafra a precolonial country ? You see you never make sense.

Looks like you’ve suddenly realized that your request to show "all the caption of “Van Benin Biafra”" makes no difference to the argument I have adduced. Lool.

Anyway, your new comeback here was also debunked where I debunked your weak Guinea comeback.

In other words, it is irrelevant if the original place (i.e. the actual precolonial Biafra) was one town, a group of related towns, a kingdom, a confederacy, etc.

In so far as it was a different location from your Benin kingdom, the consistent inference which you must draw from the same map is that Benin Kingdom was owned by the then Biafra—whether the then Biafra was one “kingdom”, or a confederacy, or a group of related towns, cities, villages is irrelevant.

2) the reason I did not reply you is because I had already wasted lots of time on you. I expose a lie of yours and you come back with ten more lies, and so on, after a point I got fed up, you have a non ending stream of lies and non logical statements and replying to them would be a full time job, I can't possibly have that much time.
3) the video below explains what it is to debate you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu4GSLI18s8
4) debating a fool is the worse thing a smart person can do, I thought I was the only one who noticed it were a waste of time untill I found that YouTube video. Sorry, but you kind of are a fool. So walking away from a "debate" with you is actually a wise thing to do.

I can’t remember asking for your tears at any point in the course of debunking you. Why all these? 🤣

Precolonial map of the region showing that Lagos (in its currents form) and its environs were part of Benin (see below)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2

According to your rusty brain:
“Van Ichoo Benin” means that Lagos is part of Benin.

But strangely your dead brain skipped where the same map shows: “van Benin Biafra”

Does this not also mean that your beloved Benin was part of, conquered, owned, controlled by Biafra? 🤣

Ghostwon82221:

Eyewitness writen precolonial text stating clearly that Lagos belongs to Benin:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5806879x.r=Y%C3%A9bou?rk=21459;2

…


Conclusion: Lagos and its environs were part of Benin.

I am not interested in debating things which have already been proven. Also I am not interested in talking to people whom have been harrassing me. (I also want to add that I am actually the only person whom has commented here who actually speaks french and that I am the person who posted the french caption and the book from which it is to nairaland. Some delusional people who don't speak a word of frecnh were trying to "debate" me on the translation of the text several months ago. Fools can only fool other fools.)

The good thing with respect to your fraud activities & lies on Nairaland is that you seem to have no new lies.

In other words, I have personally debunked all your lies on this Nairaland forum.

All I need do is to simply mine my prior responses and re-debunk you again.

As such you will be forced to deactivate your account again as I always make you do.

Anyway, the following reply is adapted from one of my devastating replies to you years ago. You fled!😂

---

Regarding your translation of that French text, I’ve sometimes ago already pointed out your fraudulent attempt to cover up some very crucial points.

(1) The translation which you gave above as “refer to” should actually be given appropriately as “designated” or “named”.

You are much aware that the appropriate translation will shatter your age-long, strongly-held Benin myth that Binis named the island as Eko.

Whereas, it was the Ijebus (the Yorubas) who named the island as Eko according to this account from ‘your own material’ which was published in 1845.


(2) Regarding land ownership: — First of all, the actual area in question is NOT the whole of Lagos as we know it in today’s context.

Rather, the area in question (in this passage) refers to a portion of the area now known as Lagos island — that is, a portion of Lagos-island, i.e. the then Curamo.

Secondly, the actual word used in the passage is NOT “land” as you’ve cunningly translated it.

Rather, the actual translation should have been given correctly as “domain” or “area”. The author is clearly aware of the nuance of using the word “land” and as such have rightfully avoided it.

Thirdly, the author was clearly not talking about the aboriginal ownership of that island — which clearly is of the Aworis (i.e. Yorubas) even according to Benin sources.

What the author was clearly referring to here is about who has the relative right to that specific area (i.e. the relative right to the Curamo island) between two non-aboriginal immigrant groups — namely the Ijebus and the Benins.

In other words, contrary to your misrepresentation, the passage is clearly NOT about aboriginal ownership of land, but rather about two immigrant groups who obviously are in competition with each other over the right to a specific area the island.

#TwistDebunked
——————

Having debunked your misrepresentation and having clarified the truth from that same passage, one may (out of curiosity) then wonder why two different group of immigrants should compete with each other over an area which aboriginally belongs to a different group entirely — i.e. the Awori-Yoruba group.

In answer to this, the indigenous accounts of Lagos history (as well as historical studies) have shown that different immigrant groups began to settling in and around Lagos-island starting from the mid or the late 1500s. This was in order to take advantage of the European trading activities along the Atlantic coast of West Africa which began during that period.

The aboriginal owners of the land granted permission to land to a number of immigrant groups who came to settle in an around Lagos-island for that purpose.

One of such trading groups who came to settle in the area and who was granted permission to land by the natives is the Benin group. This group (as well as the Ijebu group who also came to settle for the same purpose) is well remembered in the Lagos traditions.

The relevant section of this indigenous Lagos account is as may be seen in a publication of a British colonial administrator of Nigeria as follows:

“Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at the time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers.”

~ Sir Alan C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p. 43.

Having said that, it is crucial to note that the period of Lagos history described so far is about a century or more prior to the emergence of kingship on Lagos-island.

As such, the phrase “gouverneur ou chef politique” in that passage is in respect of the internal political organization of the Benin immigrant group residing on the island within the confines of their Benin community — Just as other immigrant groups residing in different parts of the same island obviously have their own leadership.
——————

Folks, for a faithful translation of that passage, refer below:

“Captain Horseley called it Eko and that is how it was named by the Ijebus; but it is not their area, it is the Benin[‘s] — who refer to it by the name Korame [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the OLDER Portuguese[’s] accounts, as Eko represents the Dutch hydrographers[’s] Ichoo.

Korame and its mainland were linked in the past by a sand-spit between the great lagoon and the sea. However, the Ijebus have, for a long time, seized that sand-spit whose eastern end has also been infiltrated by Ijaw pirates.

Korame therefore remained isolated to the extreme of the great lagoon, and continued to be dependent on Benin for its choice of governor or political leader.”

~ M. D’Avezac, “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le Peuple Des Yébous En Afrique,” 1845, pp. 25-26.

---

Cheers Baldie 👨‍🦲

Cc: Balogunodua, Maxxim

Ghostwon82221:
Other precolonial maps of west Africa
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714

Ghostwon82221:
This (map below) is not a precolonial map of guinea.
I'm not a specialist on guinea, but I like to do things logically. A kingdom is country, not a general area.
What Guinea referred to in the precolonial era, I do not know, but to think it is the same thing as what we refer to as guinea today is extremely uneducated and naïf.
But this is the kind of things which some other deluded people refer to as "correction".

Precolonial African countries were all kingdoms, and the Europeans would often refer to them by adding the word "Kingdom" to their name when referring to the entirety of the country while they would take that same name and add "city" to it while talking about the capital of the country: Benin Kingdom, Benin city.

P.S you finally archived your life goal of getting a reply from the bold clown. Now you may ask yourself why you tried to teach something in which you are totally incompetent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu4GSLI18s8

Replying me but yet scared of mentioning me🤣 How am I supposed to be notified of your reply? 🤦🏾‍♂️😂

Make up your mind & stop being stuck between your urge to spread lies & your incurable fear of TAO11.

You’re one of the few remaining hardened fraudulent folks alive who strongly trust in their skills of deceit.

Anyway, trust me (as always) to ensure that your fraud & deceit is exposed and you are forced out of shame to deactivate your moniker again.

---

(1) On Guinea:
The delineation labeled “Guinea” in the upper part of my attached image is the country as it is today.

Yes the name “Guinea” did not originally apply to that very same exact/precise limited boundaries of today.

However, the name “Guinea” applied originally to the lands below the Senegal River — in that same region.

Later on (still in the pre-colonial ara), this region called “Guinea” (in this extreme-west of Western Africa) then lent its name to much of West Africa as is seen in the precolonial map in the lower part of my image.

This old practice whereby foreign traders adopt place names (with which they are acquainted) for the wider region is well known by those who read.

“Takrur” is another example. This ancient West African state (located in western most West Africa) later lent its name (via foreign agency) to the whole West Africa.


(2) On Benin:
In a vein similar to the foregoing examples, “Benin” too lent its name (via the agency of some foreign traders) to circumjacent locations outside Benin’s boundaries.

In other words, at some early periods in the history of West Africa, some foreign traders borrowed the name of specific locations, viz. “Guinea” or “Takrur”, etc. (in the extreme west of Africa) & applied these names to the wider region of West Africa—including the land of your actual Benin kingdom among others.

In light of this exposition, only an irredeemable dunce will for example infer from all the foregoing that:

(A) The classical reference to West-Africa as Takrur implies that the actual West African state by that name (in the extreme west of Africa) actually ruled the whole of West Africa at some point in the course of history.

(B) The classical references (in precolonial maps) to a vast region of West Africa as Guinea implies that the original places by that name (in the extreme west of Africa) actually ruled a larger region of West Africa (from “Sierra-Leone” to “Cameroon”) at some point in the course of West African history.

(C) The references, in some precolonial maps, to Benin itself and the circumjacent areas outside Benin by the label “Benin” implies that Benin kingdom ruled such places covered by the name Benin on the maps.

Cheers baldie 👨‍🦲

Cc: Balogunodua, Maxxim

Ghostwon82221:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin

Lagos was part of Benin, until the British colonized Lagos . Proof: precolonial map below.

Why do you and many of your Yoruba brothers keep trying to rewrite history ?
Why are you guys telling lies ?

how to read maps according to the bald clown i’m quoting here:

Benin Kingdom was owned & controlled by Guinea 👇🏾

Cc: Balogunodua

fatiaforreal:
Oshodi of Benin predates Oshodi Tapa of Lagos by a number of centuries. However, there's probably a historical connection. The third is the founder of central Nupe Kingdom, a warrior king who expanded the kingdom much further. He was actually an Igala prince of Nupe mother, known in history as Tsoede, the name metamorphosed into Oshodi.

Actually, Oshodi (historically speaking) was a title and not a personal name. Although it has now evolved in modern times to be sometimes used as a name.

In fact, Oshodi (Oṣòdì) is NOT a Yoruba adaptation of Tsoede. We know this because Yorubas still preserve and use the Yoruba adaption of Tsoede till date, and it is: Shado (Ṣàdó) or sometimes (Ìṣàdó); not Oshodi.

The Yoruba adaptation “Shado” (from: “Tsoede”) is a Tapa-Yoruba religious title which is many worlds apart from the Yoruba title “Oshodi” (Oṣòdì) — a different and completely separate title/office.

The title “Oshodi” (Oṣòdì) is a title of Yoruba origin. It appears in different form in different Yoruba areas & kingdoms. The key term in this chieftain title is “òdì”.

The title comes in the form of: “òdì-ọba”, “oṣòdì”, “òsì” (a synonym of “òdì”), etc. The term “òdì” (as applied to a person) translates literally as: “alter-ego”.

As such, “òdì-ọba” translates as “the king’s alter-ego”, “oṣòdì” is “one who acts as [the] alter-ego”, etc.

This title (in Yorubaland) is that of a chamberlain who is both the king’s aide & the king’s stand-in.

A Nupe held this title at Èkó. Oshodi (Oṣòdì) is not his name. Oshodi is the Yoruba title of his Yoruba office. His actual name is Landuji.

Finally, the screenshot below shows what Bini sources say about this title, which they articulate as “óṣòdìn”.

Bini sources note that this title is “Of Yoruba origin”.

Culled from Bini-English dictionary, published 1937.

✌🏾

cc: baby124

okoloto:
The Oba of Lagos, Oba Rilwan Akiolu, has claimed that Lagos State is not part of Yoruba land.

Akiolu’s statement is coming barely a week after he publicly humiliated the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi at an event.

In a statement from Akiolu’s palace, the monarch traced the historical background of the state and why it should not be regarded as part of Yoruba land.

The statement reads: “Coming from the palace, with what I was told by my late paternal grandmother who is a descendant of Oba Ovonramwen Nogbaisi and also reading from factual Historical books, let me share this Knowledge with you all on Eko/Lagos.

“Modern day Lagos was founded by Prince Ado, the son of the Oba of Benin, Prince Ado was the first Oba of Lagos, the son of the Bini King, Prince Ado, named the town Eko until the Portuguese explorer Ruy de Segueira changed the Maritime town to Lagos, which at that time from 1942 was Portuguese expedition center down the African Coast.

“It was a major centre of the slave trade until 1851. Lagos was annexed by Britain via the Lagos treaty of cession in 1861, ending the consular period and starting the British Colonial Period. The remainder of modern day Nigeria was seized in 1886 when the Colony and Protectorate of Nigeria was established in 1914 Lagos was declared its capital due to the struggle of the Bini King.

“Lagos experienced growth prior to the British Colonial rule and even more rapid growth during the Colonial rule throughout the 1960s, 70s, continued through the 80s and 90s till date. Thanks to the Awori’s, Bini’s, Yoruba’s, migrants across the nation and world at large, as no particular group of people can take the glory alone.

“Lagos is made up of Lagoons and creeks. The Lagos lagoon, Lagos Harbour, five cowne creeks, Ebute-Metta creeks, Porto-Novo creeks, New canal, Badagry creeks, Kuramo waters and Light house creeks.

“The Awori’s and Bini’s are known to be the first settlers of the Eko land. The Awori’s are speakers of a distinct dialect close to that of the Yoruba language with a rich Bini mixture. Traditionally, Awori’s were found in Ile-Ife, they were known to be the Bini’s who followed their self-exiled Prince, the first son of the Ogiso (now called Oba) of Benin Kingdom, whose step-mother was after his head.

“The exiled Benin Prince Izoduwa known to the Yorubas as Ooduwa (Oduduwa) was made ruler of the Ife people due to his powers and followers from the Great Benin-Kingdom.

“Izoduwa (Ooduwa) was made the first King of Ile-Ife in 1230 AD. His followers from his father’s Kingdom in Benin are the today’s Awori people who settled in Eko now called Lagos.

“In the 1300, the King of Benin-Empire heard from one of his traders who was a settler in Eko on how the Bini’s were treated by the Awori’s who lived in their area. Upon hearing this, the King of Benin commanded the assembling of a war expedition, led by his son, Prince Ado, which headed the settlement of the Awori’s and demanded explanation.

“On arriving Eko, Prince Ado and his Army were more than received. The Aworis asked the Bini Prince to stay and become their leader. Ado agreed on the condition that they surrender their sovereignty to the Oba of Benin, to which the people agreed. Hearing this, the King of Benin gave his permission for Prince Ado and the expedition to remain in Eko.

“The Oba of Benin sent some of his chiefs including the Eletu, Odibo, Obanikoro and others to assist his son, Oba Ado in the running of Eko.

“From the crowing of Prince Ado as the first Oba of Lagos (then called Eko), Lagos served as a major center for slave trade from which the Aworis, the Oba of Benin and his son the Oba of Lagos and all the children/descendants who took over as his successors for over four centuries supported the trade.

“The Oba of Benin was the head of the Benin Empire which are the present day Western, Southern and Eastern modern day Nigeria. The King never obliged anyone to speak the Bini language as he believed everyone was entitled to their own choice of language.

“The name Eko was given to it by the first king of Lagos, Oba Ado, the young and vibrant Prince from Benin. Eko was the land now known as Lagos Island, where the king palace was built.

“The palace is called Idugaran meaning “palace built on pepper farm” Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin together with the early Bini’s settlers in Eko and the Awori people settled in the southern part of Eko called “Isale Eko”. “Isale literally means bottom “. Must have been used to indicate downtown (as in down town Lagos)

“Until the coming in of the Benin’s 1300AD , Lagos geographical boundary was Lagos mainland, Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos then consisted of a pepper farm and fishing post. No one was living there.

“About 1450 AD some Yorubas who hailed from Isheri in Ogun-state and Ekiti were allowed by the King to settle in Eko during a war, they came in a very large numbers thereby surpassing the numbers of the Awori’s and Bini’s. (Hence Yorubas claim to own Eko due to their numbers).

“Oba Ado fell in love with a beautiful woman whose father was Awori and mother a daughter to one of the chief; they had two sons and also a daughter Erelu Kuti, who begot Ologun Kutere who later became King.”

https://dailypost.ng/2017/05/03/lagos-not-belong-yorubas-oba-akiolu/

Ọba Akiolu has long debunked those who invent these so-called “interviews” that actually never happened.

https://dailypost.ng/2017/12/11/never-said-bini-owned-lagos-oba-akiolu/?amp=1


Rest! 🥳

samuk:
You were acknowledged and given some credit of pushing people like myself to unravelling the Benin/Ife fairytale as story that was concocted around 1897. You came out swinging.

What's wrong in acknowledging and giving you credit. I know you missed all that unending fairytales we used to debate here on Nairaland. I can understand your anger towards me for being one of those that killed your sources of happiness and relevance.

Anyway peace ✌

You’re actually not well, are you?

Now go tell that to your brother whom you lied to: Tell him it was you in desperate need of my attention and not the other way round.

---

For the umpteenth time, bring [only] one link for this consolation you’re forcing down upon yourself.

Drop link to comments where you performed these wonders in an exchange with me. That shouldn’t be hard to do. Should it?

In contrast, I can drop multiple links for folks to read where you were beaten black & blue as I showed that your Kings are of Ifẹ-Yoruba ancestry, roots, & origin.

I can also drop links showing where some non-Yoruba readers (Igbos, Binis, et al.) on the culture section have expressed their conviction of this historical fact on the basis of my past engagements with you.

Do you see how it’s done? Now help yourself with the links, or take your “L”.

✌🏾