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Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 11:07pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
[s]How many meaning has the word KING OBA OBONG SHEHU etc ?[/s]

Type your question in English. In other words, make your question make sense.

Make I see the Ijebu man that controls port give me the book

Unless you promise me to have now agree to read a book. Otherwise, you ain’t getting sh*t.

Peace! grin

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 11:05pm On Aug 28, 2021

samuk:
When is the earliest reference to Ooni, I am sure the word or title Ooni didn't even exist in ancient times. Show us prove of when it entered Yoruba lexicon.

When it was first uttered from the lips of Yorubas or when it was first written down by the Yorubas?

And how should that help you with the following?:

——————
Your Bini ancestors regard the Ooni as some God.

Proof:
The Dictionary of Bini Language attached below says that ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] is God and also “Bini name for the Ooni at Ile Ife.”

The authoritative lexicon also continues to add that: “ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”.

In other words, the Bini word ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] actually derives from the Yoruba ‘name’ Ooni.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:57pm On Aug 28, 2021*

samuk:
[s]The Yoruba have been writing themselves into Benin history since 1897. Between 1897 and 1960 was particularly terrible. Go to Warri and tell them your Ooni is their God.

Below is the definition of Oghene before the Yoruba corrupted the Benin source.

Cghene, or Oghene, is the supreme god of the Urhobo and Isoko people in southern Nigeria. He is believed to have created the world and all peoples. Oghene is beyond human comprehension and is only known by his actions. Because the god is so distant and unknown, he has no temples or priests and no prayers or sacrifices are offered directly to him.

Oghene has a courier named Oyise, who is referred to as uko Oghene or "messenger of Oghene". Through Oyise, Oghene can be invoked in case of calamity or need.[/s]

Your dictionary of Bini language was not written by Yorubas.

So, your pleading falls flat on its nose. Next.

——————-
My Earlier Repy Stands:
For your information, your Bini ancestors regard the Ooni as some God.

Proof:
The Dictionary of Bini Language attached below says that ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] is God and also “Bini name for the Ooni at Ile Ife.”

The authoritative lexicon also continues to add that: “ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”.

In other words, the Bini word ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] actually derives from the Yoruba ‘name’ Ooni.

Get a grip. ✌

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:55pm On Aug 28, 2021*

KingOKON:
Book written by BobRISKY shey

I know when I’ve knocked you down — i.e. Even your pseudo-intelligent replies cease.

One man down on the Bini side. cheesy

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:54pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
Yoruba name or Latinized name, omo see craze a name that has 3 different meaning you go fear Yoruba SPIN Doctors.

I am not a dictionary of Bini language which says the original meaning (i.e. etymology) comes from the Yoruba word.

Hold it up against your language not me. grin

Plz I want to see where Ijebu Chief met Europeans in 1400, no be small thing imagine

And I asked if you’ve searched your heart to confirm that you’re now ready to read a book.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:49pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
[s]So you interpreted what the Oba told the Portuguese to Yoruba and now fine tuned to suit your imaginary WEED smoking "eyes dare not see" King and have the audacity to tell us that the Portuguese that heard directly from the king did not understand what the king said but you and your gang of village wannabes historian heard and understand better than the Portuguese hundred of years ago via using the Yoruba language
It is not just WEED you smoke, come lemme slap the demon disturbing you also[/s]

You try. In fact, you deserve a consolation prize.

However, your obas must on a daily basis establish the reverential connection between IFE (and Yoruba-land in general) AND dawn/sunrise.

Why?

Because IFE is known [from Atakpame on the extreme west to Benin kingdom on the extreme right; and from Lagos on the extreme south to Oyo-Ile on the extreme north] by the reverential epithet of:

The place from where dawn [sun-rise] comes.

Read a book today, and see below for your consolation prize.

Peace. cheesy

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:36pm On Aug 28, 2021

samuk:
[s]You are now beginning to see the foolishness in your arguments.[/s]

You’re angry that you’re been flogged with facts. cheesy

What else can you do apart from being angry?

Well, you can accept facts and move on, or reject it and stay deluded.

You’ve been leaning towards the second option for years now. Will you someday wake up? May be!

Nothing is impossible for God.

[s]For your information:

Oghene 'n' Uhe simply means god (idol) of Ife people just like Ogun is the god of Iro, sango is the god of thunder and Oluku the goddess of the sea. Your Ooni was just a chief priest of Idols.

Ife and Ooni was nothing more than an Oracle that people went to consult, there were and still are many of such Oracles.[/s]

For your information, your Bini ancestors regard the Ooni as some God.

Proof:
The Dictionary of Bini Language attached below says that ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] is God and also “Bini name for the Ooni at Ile Ife.”

The authoritative lexicon also continues to add that: “ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”.

In other words, the Bini word ɔɣɛnɛ [ọghẹnẹ] actually derives from the Yoruba ‘name’ Ooni.

Get a grip. ✌

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:24pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
.BobRISKY give me one book where the Ijebus met the Portuguese or link, and the same Ijebus NEVER told them( Portuguese) about an Immortal "eyes never see king" only the Oba that has no link with Yorubas did

Now you’re ready to read a book?

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:23pm On Aug 28, 2021

samuk:
[s]When your head is cleared from whatever you are smoking, read your two submissions on Oghene below, hopefully you and your supporters will see how delusional you are.

In your corrupted Benin mythology below, you agreed that Oghene is the almighty God that created heaven and earth. In your second post you contradict yourself by saying Oghene is Ooni of Ife.

You are basically equating Ooni to God almighty, the creator. TAO11 are you Okay? Which Benin view your Ooni as God?

Oghene 'n' Uhe simply means god (idol) of Ife people just like Ogun is the god of Iro, sango is the god of thunder and Oluku the goddess of the sea. Your Ooni was just a chief priest of Idols.[/s]

It is not my fault that your ancestors took the Ooni of Ife as some God and incorporated same into your Bini mythology.

Channel your energy to summoning the spirit of your ancestors.

Plus, see your Benin dictionary as attached

Peace!

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:20pm On Aug 28, 2021

“Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá” is of course how Yorubas say: “the place from where dawn [sun-rise] comes”.

Please translate that into Bini language for me so I can appreciate the precise wordings by the Benin ọbas when they were establishing a daily link between IFE (in particular and Yorubaland in general) AND dawn/sun-rise.

Thanks!

KingOKON:
Did the Oba speak in Yoruba to the Portuguese or in Bini?

Do the ‘early’ Europeans communicate with the ‘early’ Africans? Yes.

OKONgo’s reaction: Never! They don’t even speak the same LaNgAgE.

Me: Okay.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:52pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
Saw Ijebu what in 1400s, why do you LIE more than SATAN?

More reasons why you must read a book.

Thanks for exposing yourself.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:52pm On Aug 28, 2021*

KingOKON:
by the epithet “ibi ojumo ti n mo wa” (i.e the place from whence the dawn comes)

.......Is this Yoruba or what

“Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá” is of course how Yorubas say: “the place from where dawn [sun-rise] comes”.

Please translate that into Bini language for me so I can appreciate the precise wordings used by Benin ọbas when they were establishing a daily link between IFE (in particular and Yorubaland in general) AND dawn/sun-rise.

Thanks!

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:20pm On Aug 28, 2021*

KingOKON:
"...However, the Europeans whom this description was given to received same non-literal description from a literalist European point of view. Hence the presence of the word “east” in the early Portuguese’s writings...".
[s]Even the DEVIL can't stand you when it comes lies
This only happens when Ogane WEED is being SMOKED at maximum strength....[/s]

I get it.

You are already caught up in the bitter pill syndrome.

You will probably wake up in heaven. Sorry oo. cheesy

Ife is known by the epithet “ibi ojumo ti n mo wa” (i.e the place from where the dawn comes) for a huge part of the Gulf of Guinea; not only in Benin kingdom.

~ Refer to the oba’s dawn prayers where he expresses the connection between Ife in particular (and Yoruba land in general) AND the dawn/rising-sun.

Thus, the description of the Ogané’s base (the place from where the sun rises) as given by the Binis (to the Portuguese) is not a geographical/literal description; but rather religious/reverential.

However, the Europeans to whom this description was given received same non-literal description from a literalist European point of view. Hence the presence of the word “east” in the early Portuguese’s writings.

In addition to this clarification, maps drawn during the same period by other Europeans (e.g. the French) clearly shows the “Ogane’s Dominion” on the western side of Benin (over a vast expanse of the Nigeria area and beyond). Now you gerrit. cheesy

Get a grip. grin

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:17pm On Aug 28, 2021

In fact, the knowledge of Oyo by the early Europeans was through Oyo’s imperial activities near the Atlantic coasts of the Aja country (around present-day Benin-Republic and Togo).

And this has come down to us through the eyewitness publications of William Bosman in the 1600s as well as Archibald Dalzel in the 1700s among other sources.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:41pm On Aug 28, 2021

Abohboy:
Old Oyo is too far inland for the British and technically so is Ife only the Ijebu were at the coast

Timeline is everything.

Portuguese, et al. were the ones in the “Nigeria” area from the late-1400s to the 1790s.

The British came for the first time sometimes in the early 1800s. And they reached the interior during this period — Old Oyo which is even the farthest inland.

No white person dared go to the interior of any African region from the 1470s to the 1790s.

Peace!

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:37pm On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
[s]Never in my life have I read anything as gibberish as this
You are an expert in cooking and dishing out historical concoction[/s]

You need consolation prize? See attached. cheesy

Culture › Re: Th by TAO12: 8:27pm On Aug 28, 2021*

Think4Myself:
Fake historian get a life

You need your own advice obviously.

1 Like

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:04pm On Aug 28, 2021

Abohboy:
Lagos is not a person now is it? I said that the location in which they met the Ijebu was Lagos

Whether person or land, the Portuguese didn’t have to go via Lagos (which at the time was only the island); Ijebus’s territory was up to the Atlantic coast as well.

The Europeans had direct contact with the Ijebu-Ode kingdom from the late-1400s when Duarte Pacheco Pereira went there to see the king, the city, the moat, etc.

Cc: Abohboy.

2 Likes 1 Share

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 7:52pm On Aug 28, 2021*

Abohboy:
I would have agreed with you had I just not searched Oghene and when I searched it says Oghene is the supreme God of the Urhobo and Isoko people so are you sure about your sources?

Lol. You’re clearly not familiar with this discussion and the primary sources. Let me break it down.

Yes the Portuguese made contacts with Benin in the late-1400s/early-1500s.

Yes they reported in their writings that they were told about the most powerful monarch — whom they (the Portuguese) transcribed as Ogané and as Hooguanee.

The Bini informants also gave them some descriptions of practices at Oghene’s court among other details.

Yes the same original Bini word (Oghene) is also used for “God” among some Edoid groups.

But the word (Oghene) flowed from the Bini to these Edoid groups; and it is originally a title of the Ooni of Ife whom the Binis of old viewed as some kind of God.

Hence the incorporation of the title Oghoni (classical Yoruba) — Oghene in Bini — as an attribute of Osa.

See the dictionary of the Bini language attached below.

Cc: Abohboy

1 Like

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 7:40pm On Aug 28, 2021*

Abohboy:
They made contact with the Ijebus through Lagos in the 1600s and prior to that they were told by those in the Mali Empire of a large and powerful empire in the forest and we now know that they were either talking about the Ijebu or Ife you cannot discount that fact

(1) They Portuguese made contact with Ijebu directly since the late-1400s/early-1500s; not through anyone.

(2) The information collected in the Mail region was sometimes around the year 1908 by L. Frobenius.

Moreover, the information collected there was not a case of Ife or Ijebu — they were clear, specific and direct. The following is his precise words:

“When I came across some experienced explorers in 1908 in the great cities of the Niger on the southern borders of the Sahara, Timbuktu, and Wagadugu, and often discussed the antiquity of the far south-eastern cities, Ilife [Ile-ife] was mentioned as the first of five great places and it was only when in Atakpame in South Togoland, that I identified it with Ife. What I was then told in the North was so strange, indeed, that my resolve to visit the place myself at any cost was greatly strengthened.” ~ Leo Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1., (1913), p.69.

It’s not so hard to call a spade a spade brother, or is it?

Peace!

Cc: Abohboy.

3 Likes 1 Share

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 7:09pm On Aug 28, 2021*

gregyboy:
No European penetrated africa prior to 1470 AD... But when they did they visited all vital useful areas,

You’re giving the impression that they penetrated into the interior of Africa from 1470 onwards. That’s a big, fat, huge LIE. grin

Show me the European who penetrated from near the coast into the interior of Africa from the 1470s to the 1790s.

And if you can’t find one (of course you can’t), then a sane person would read up to understand why the Europeans didn’t dare penetrate deep from the coast areas into the deep forest interior until the late 1790s/early 1800s.

Just the way the Itsekiris introduced a vital country benin kingdom to Portuguese …

Yes the Benin kingdom of the time was from the coast of Ughoton and goes as far as probably Auchi.

So, the Europeans once in a while visit the capital city while remaining at Ughoton most times for their trade.

The Europeans traded with anyone (as long as they’re not too far off from the coast — whether it’s a village or it’s a kingdom).

Some of the many villages not for off from the coast whom Europeans traded with in the early centuries are: Cape-Palmas, Cape-Three Points, Komenda, etc.

At this point, a sane mind would ponder why they had trading relationships with places not far off from the coast (whether village or kingdom) from the west side to central Africa; but never daring to penetrate too deep into the deeply forested interior.

… same way the benin introduced the oghene to europeans, the europeans would have visited but they knew the benins were talking on some myth

It would be MyTh IF and only IF the Benin king himself is a MyTH — because the conversation with the Bini ambassador(s) is about who is the most powerful king in the Guinea forest. And the answer given by the Bini ambassador is:

Ọghẹnẹ (classical Bini rendition), Ọghọni (the classical Yoruba rendition), Ogané/Hooguanee (the Portuguese rendition given in the texts).

Also, the conversation about this most powerful king continued for centuries. The Ooni was finally met in the 1800s at a time when Europeans could now reach the deepest parts of the West African forest interior.

they were even giving the location by binis to the east which was opposite of ife
But you say east is west and west is east..

LMAO! No, east is NOT west, and west is NOT east. And I never said it is. cheesy

The clarification from the consensus of the scholars of historical scholarship, instead, is as follows:

Ife is known by the epithet “ibi ojumo ti n mo wa” (i.e the place from whence the dawn comes) for a huge part of the Gulf of Guinea; not only in Benin kingdom.

~ Refer to the oba’s dawn prayers where he expresses the connection between Ife in particular (and Yoruba land in general) AND the dawn/rising-sun.

Thus, the description of the Ogané’s base (as the place from where the sun rises) as given by the Binis (to the Portuguese) is not a geographical/literal description; but rather religious/reverential.

However, the Europeans whom this description was given to received same non-literal description from a literalist European point of view. Hence the presence of the word “east” in the early Portuguese’s writings.

In addition to this clarification, maps drawn during the same period by other Europeans (e.g. the French) clearly shows the “Ogane’s Dominion” on the western side of Benin (over a vast expanse of the Nigeria area and beyond). Now you gerrit. cheesy

I nor know wetin i go do again

But you my friend on some ogene strong shit...
You want to turn myth to truth...

Get a grip. grin

Peace! ✌

Education › Re: All About Science: Key Facts, Researches, And Discoveries In Physics by TAO12: 9:36am On Aug 28, 2021

A001:
Okay. Kindly remove my email from that post. Thanks.

Okay oo.

Education › Re: All About Science: Key Facts, Researches, And Discoveries In Physics by TAO12: 9:17am On Aug 28, 2021*

A001:
It's private, not what I can discuss here.

Please, say hello to me on •••

Then, I would reply. Thanks.

Oh okay. I emailed you.

Education › Re: All About Science: Key Facts, Researches, And Discoveries In Physics by TAO12: 8:42am On Aug 28, 2021

Hey @A001,

You’ve been trying to email me on TAO11 and TAO12, I can’t receive emails.

Could you please tell me what it is here? It shouldn’t be that private, or is it?

Thanks.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:29am On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
.Lunatic.
Stop smoking Ogane WEED

Liar;

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Show me NOW.

Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:23am On Aug 28, 2021

KingOKON:
Lunatic.
Stop smoking Ogane WEED

Liar;

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Show me NOW.

Culture › Re: Th by TAO12: 8:21am On Aug 28, 2021*

UGBE634:
I don't in this regards and I already gave my reasons why.

The question I asked and the answer (from the lexicon) was:

“Where/what did the Binis get their word “oghene” from per this lexicon? From the Yoruba’s “ooni”

Do you agree with the authority in that regards? I’d let you answer.”

So, you’re saying now that you “don’t,” but earlier you LIED that there is agreement between you and the lexicon/authority. Lol.

In any case like I had said earlier, “A linguist of Bini language Vs. UGBE on Nairaland. Even a dense would go with the authority.”

Being a reasonable being, I go with the authority—i.e. the Bini word “oghene” comes from the Yoruba word “o[gh]oni

Yes but there is a primary meaning as also stated by your authority.

The question I asked and the answer (from the lexicon) was:

Does the lexicon mention that Binis regard the Ooni as Oghene? YES.

A “definition 1” ≡/≡ (i.e. is not equivalent to) “PriMaRy mEaNinG”.

By ‘primary,’ you intend to give off the insinuation that a “definition 1” ≡ (i.e. is equivalent to) original meaning.

No that’s false. And that precisely was debunked when the lexicon makes it clear that “ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”.

In other words, the Bini word “ọghẹnẹ” is derived from the Yoruba word “ọ[gh]ọni”.

Now we know the original meaning (i.e.primary meaning), viz. Ooni — according to linguistic authority.

Having said that, a “definition 1” ≡ (i.e. is equivalent to) the popular meaning.

In other words, the definition 2 (i.e. “Ooni”) of the Bini word “ọghẹnẹ” is not more primary (i.e. not more Bini) than the definition 3 (i.e. “one of the five pieces of a kolanut”). It (i.e. definition 2 for “ọghẹnẹ”) is only more popular among the Bini person of present day and time than definition 3

In sum, the lexicon doesn’t say anywhere that the 1st definition is the original/primary meaning. It actually debunks that by saying that the 2nd definition is the original meaning of the Bini word “ọghẹnẹ”.

IF you say you disagree with linguists, then that would be a separate matter. But on what basis does UGBE disagree with linguists? Lol.

It would only make sense, that You add n'Uhe for it to make sense,which is actually the case here.

False!

No where does the lexicon say that. In fact, the lexicon doesn’t use the word “Uhẹ” in the definition, yet “Ooni” was identified as the original meaning.

Yes it so since it's not the first on the list of meanings, I have also told you, you can mention any Bini Man you know(online and offline) to come Vett this as I am a speaker of the language myself

The question I asked and the answer (from the lexicon) was:

Does the lexicons say Uhe must be added before the Binis regard Ooni as Oghene? NO.

In the light of this, your answer here is clearly not only a lie, but also out of touch with the question asked.

Having said that, your comments here have just been flogged. The original meaning is given in the lexicon as “Ooni”.

The listing is thus not about which is more primarily or originally Bini than the other. Rather, it is (as any dictionary) about what is popular in the day and time.

The Binis but as a primary meaning first in reference to God which other Edo group has also but do not have it in their vocabulary In reference to the Ooni. This would only mean that the Binis later started using it for the god of Ife. And the relationship and brotherhood of these groups far predate the Benin/Ife! It would Only make sense that the word has been there since ancient times.

The question I asked and the answer (from the lexicon) was:

Who regards the Ooni as God of (or at) Ife per this lexicon — Binis or Yorubas? Binis.

I’m glad that you told the truth here that it is not the Yorubas who regard the Ooni of Ife as God. Rather it is the Binis.

However, the issue of “primary” meaning has just been trashed. The dictionary didn’t say any of that.

Instead, the primary meaning is given in the lexicon as “Ooni”.

The listing is thus not about which is more primarily or originally Bini than the other. Rather, it is (as any dictionary) about what is popular in the day and time.

Having established those, I would like you to connect the following dots & links between the Bini traditions and this specific linguistic subject:

The Edoid groups you refer to left from Benin (either during the Ogisos’ times or during the Obas’ time).

The Onóyès from IFe (sent to “Benin”) became mythologized as being from Iso (the heavens) — Ogie-n-oriso.

The sender at the other end [i.e. the king (supposedly now to be at the iso) who sent the Onóyè to “Benin”) has the title Ọ̀[gh]ọ̀ni.

Ọ̀[gh]ọ̀ni thus becomes God as a logical consequence of this Bini mythology — i.e., Ogie-n-oriso.

The aboriginal Bini word for God (of course prior to the Ogiso period) is Osa.

Think! Peace!