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 Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 11:55am On Aug 26, 2021 |
nisai:Lmao! Yes, and all Yorubas are in some ways interrelated. I know why you’re asking. You wicked.  3 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 11:18am On Aug 26, 2021*. Modified: 11:59am On Aug 26, 2021 |
Who Oduduwa Is: Having pointed out that the 1970s Izoduwa joke has no basis in history; what then do the historical studies say today on the roots of Oduduwa in the light of the earliest traditions and other source evidence?? Oduduwa ruled as king only in Yorubaland, so a fair inquiry into his roots must necessarily proceed with an examination of the Yorubas’ earliest traditions on his roots. Having said that, because his rule was at Ife I would begin with a description of Ife’s topography. The archaeological survey of the Ife country shows it to lie in a high bowl surrounded by hills which form a watershed for streams flowing out via gaps between the hills. Paul Ozanne’s 1969 report of his archaeological survey finds that many settlements were already on ground in the Ife country by circa 350 BCE. These settlements increased in number and size over time, and by 900AD when great changes began in the area, these settlements must have been up to the 13 whose names have been passed via the traditions to the present century. These settlements include: Iloromu (which lay along a stretch of today’s Ife-Ilesha road); Ideta (which lay along today’s road to Mokuro); Odin (which lay along the modern road to Ifewara); Iwinrin (which covered the area of today’s Koiwo and Oronno quarters); Omologun (which covered part of what is now OAU campus); Imojubi (which lay along today’s Ife-Ondo road); Ijugbe; Oke-Oja; & Iraye (which all lay west of the area now known as Modakeke). The sites of Ido; Oke-Awo; Iloran and Parakin are difficult to asserctain. The other settlements whose names have also come down to us through the traditions are: Ilare, Esije, Ita-Yemoo, Orun-Oba-Ado (after the burial site), Ilara, and Idio. King Oduduwa of Ife (even before becoming the king of the Ife country) was first widely known (and passed down till date by the early traditions) as Ọṣìn-Ọrà; i.e., the Head of Ora community. Ọrà (or aptly: Òkè-Ọrà — that is, Ọrà-Hill) was an old hilly settlement in the Ife country, particularly sited in the Iloromu part of the country. The traditions recall that it was in this hilly community of Ọrà that Oduduwa’s homeland was prior to moving down into the Omologun area of the “Ife bowl”. After the long civil-conflict between the autochthones of the “Ife-bowl” and the new groups who continued to join them (a conflict which appears from an in-depth analysis of the traditions to have preceded Oduduwa himself), he moved his base from the partly ruined compounds of Omologun to Idio on a low hill which gently slopes in all directions. It was from this new base (at Idio) that the new task of reorganizing the newly emerging city of Ile-Ife began. Ife thus became one single kingdom in contrast to the former confederation of kingdoms of the pre-existing settlements. The project of building a protective wall around the city was also launched. Peace: Cc: niggadee, Christistruth00, nisai, YungMillionaire, rhektor, theInterpreter, gomojam, Adekunle47, r4bbit PS: Out of “curiosity”, would someone please tell me the name of Pa IDU’s father — yes, the so-called Pa Idu, his own father. Lol. Thanks. 12 Likes 7 Shares |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 11:18am On Aug 26, 2021*. Modified: 3:53pm On Aug 26, 2021 |
Who Oduduwa is NOT: There is no such historical personage called Izoduwa, (or Imadoduwa) in Benin traditions. Such account of a certain Izoduwa is a relatively new one which was fabricated by some Bini in the 1970s. This account was unheard of by the Binis (and in fact the whole world) until during the coronation party of the incoming Omo-n-oba Erediauwa in 1978-9. Historians the world over (professional and academic ones, not the neighborhood story tellers of Benin) all mock the ‘Izoduwa’ fabrication for its poor execution. This Izoduwa narrative is well known to historians as pseudo-history. The elders of Benin kingdom are also aware of its inherently disgraceful nature. A leading scholar of pre-colonial Benin history puts it as follows: “However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hestitation as deliberately unauthentic. There are no their records made before the early 1970s*, … Their authors are representatives of the nationalistically-minded part of the Bini intelligentsia who are seeking to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the sociopolitical life of independent Nigeria*.” Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Adevent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty of Benin: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point,” History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30, pp.67-68. Another scholar (academic and professional historian) of Benin roots puts it as in the attached screenshot. He points out the fact that it is this pseudo-history which tries to alter Oduduwa’s name into Izoduwa and not the other way round. ————— The classical and original Benin story of Ekeladerhan was first collected in the year 1889 by Cyril Punch. The account as recorded by C. Punch in 1889 has it that Ekaladerhan fled from Benin due to some scandal. But that, after much back and forth between him and the Benin government, a truce was reached and he was allowed his independent life in his new kingdom of Ughoton. Fast forward from 1889 to the 1930s, a chronicler of Benin traditions emerged in Benin. He is a native and a chief of the land. He went on to collect accounts of Benin traditions from the royal palace. He obtained the story of Ekaladerhan, and what he was told is the exact same story that had been told to Cyril Punch by an entirely different generation of Bini informants — that is, Ekalderhan was allowed to live the rest of his life in his newly founded kingdom of Ughoton. In other words, during these period (i.e. from the pre-1800s through the 1930s) Benin history and tradition recognizes Ekeladerhan as being a different & distinct person from Oduduwa. In fact, the early records of Benin traditions by Chief J. U. Egharevba has it that Oduduwa was already the king of Ife when the first Ogiso of ‘Benin’ was reigning. Whereas, this Ekeladerhan is generally agreed in all of Benin historical traditions to be the son of the last Ogiso. And there are many Ogiso rulers who reigned. As such, the early records of Benin traditions are aware that Oduduwa and Ekaladerhan are completely different and distinct persons who lived in different eras — Oduduwa, at the start of the Ogiso monarchy: and Ekaladerhan, at the end of the Ogiso monarchy. Fast forward to the 1970s, lies began to surface in the history of Benin. These lies appears to be rooted in the low-self-esteem of at least the incoming oba who attempted to veil what must have appeared to him to be an embarrassing aspect of Benin history. As such, his team attempted to convert Oduduwa into a Bini man (by equating him to be one and the same person as Ekaladerhan, and also saying that his name “Oduduwa” is a Yoruba corruption of a certain Bini word “Izoduwa”). If successful, then he would have managed to erase the core of Benin history. He would have managed to say that the second dynasty of Benin (the Oba dynasty) was not a foreign one. But unfortunately for him and his team, history has its way of always proving itself. In other words, even according to the actual Benin traditions, Oduduwa is not Ekaladerhan. Oduduwa is not iZoDuWa. Oduduwa is not a Bini. Peace! Screenshot Reference: J. Eboreime, “Oral Traditions and the Prehistory of the Edo-Speaking People of Benin” in Blench and Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, p. 314. Cc: niggadee, Christistruth00, nisai, YungMillionaire, rhektor, theInterpreter, gomojam, Adekunle47, r4bbit 11 Likes 6 Shares
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 9:58am On Aug 26, 2021*. Modified: 6:37pm On May 30, 2022 |
I thought you could be helped, I didn’t know you’re a frustrated pig. Carry on and dwell in your show of shame and misery. I’m sure your descendants can’t wait to further carry on the generational misery from wherever you stop. PS: (1) Notes on the Olokun Head including its year of discovery can be read up in this comment featuring the words of Leo Frobenius himself. (2) Notes on the IFe Head including the year of its discovery can be read up here at the British Museum. Cheers! 7 Likes 3 Shares |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 1:44am On Aug 26, 2021*. Modified: 2:19am On Aug 26, 2021 |
mr1759:Because I am kind, I’ll get you out of the confusion you have gotten yourself entangled in. The “Olokun Head” kind of resembles the “IFe Head” of an Ooni. Only those who pay attention to the details would see that they are two different ‘bronze’ heads. I will attach each one of them so you can observe their differences and similarities. The first attachment shows the Olokun Head that was shown to Leo Frobenius at Ife in c.1911. The second attachment is the IFe Head which is one of the 1938 finds at Wunmonije, Ife. Cc: niggadee, r4bbit, Christistruth00, nisai, rhektor, YungMillionaire, theInterpreter, gomojam, Abohboy Adekunle47 10 Likes 3 Shares
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 1:09am On Aug 26, 2021*. Modified: 12:59pm On Aug 26, 2021 |
Christistruth00:I would cite the early Benin traditions on this subject and then give my comment: “… The son of Prince Oranmiyan by Erinmwide was born at Ego, and brought up at Use, where he won the celebrated game of “Akhue.” In the excitement of winning the game … he made his first utterance “Owomika” (I succeed) which has been corrupted into Eweka. It surprised the inhabitants of Use to hear a child born in Benin give its first utterance in the Yoruba language — his father’s tongue.” Egharevba, “A Short History of Benin,” (1937), p.10ff. Our interpretations must be based on how it is put in the traditions, not on how personal whims. As it is clear from the traditions cited above, Owomika could not possibly be a name he had been given long ago (prior to that game). Had that been his pre-existing name, the Binis would not be surprised to hear it (his name) from him. They would have been used to that as his name — i.e. they would have known that he has a Yoruba name. Their surprise was clearly because the word, Owomika is a word which he didn’t learn from them, and that he uttered such the first time he talked. In the light of this analysis (which is based on the Bini traditions), the word Owomika was clearly not a name given to him prior by anyone. It is instead a word which became his self given name thereby becoming popular and the only remembered name in the traditions. His given name is clearly not mentioned in the traditions — at least no in this one. Cheers. 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:39pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 10:07pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 10:43pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
samuk:Erediauwa’s ancestors say the historians are right. All the material artifacts from the pre-1800 Benin say the historians are right. Common sense says the historians are right and that Erediauwa is just soaked in low-self esteem. He probably started like you. What name did Oranmiyan name his supposed Benin prince who became Oba Eweka.I don’t know actually. What name did the Oba of Benin send to his “son” at Itsekiri (Olu Sebastiao Atorangboye) who took up a Portuguese and Yoruba name? By the way, Eweka is not a Bini name according to the Benin traditions. You can now see how difficult it is to defend lies. Hiding behind long copy and paste gibberish can't save you.I see exactly how it’s been difficult for you to defend what the whole world (i.e. all historians of pre-colonial Benin and Yoruba history) have trashed as garbage. It must be really tough being in your shoes. What a waste!? Thanks for popularizing my “long” comment by the way. 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:47pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
The Devastating Refutation: Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist. NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain. This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings. In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language]. The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample. This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife. In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”. For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to: (A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S. (B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206). This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king. Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.). Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife” Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps. There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria. These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal. In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places. Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively. These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below. The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17. The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife. What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom. Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years]. ~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19. For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to: (A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc (B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89. (C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4. In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom. In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively. Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works: A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al. A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47. Peace! 2 Likes
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:41pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Samuk, what name did Benin kings send to the sons ruling Itsekiri land when the sons were taking up Portuguese names, Itsekiri names, and Yoruba names? 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:33pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 9:50pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
samuk:Eweka evolved from Owomika. Says me? No. Says Benin traditions. which of these did daddy Oranmiyan sent down as the name of his baby prince.None of Eweka or Ownomika. Eweka is clearly a name which had given himself as a young boy, NOT as a toddler obviously. Are you suggesting that Eweka had no given name as a toddler prior to the one he gave himself as a young boy? Be direct.Many people do not know their great-grand father’s first name is NOT equivalent to the notion that their great grand father did not have a given name. Catch that?  The Igbo Iweka is beginning to sound more plausibleLol. You need this support from the Igbos so badly, don’t you? I got the Igbos support only because I spill nothing but facts. They are now more than convinced that your oba is a Yoruba man. See one of their testimonies attached below, Having said that, the Igbo name Iweka could have been derived from Eweka. Why does you brain see only one direction. Is your brain one dimensional? You said Erediawa was debunked based on early Benin accounts written in the years of the locust, years of occupation and intimidation, 1897 to 1963.Locust ko, locust beans ni. ROTFLMAO! I actually said: Erediauwa-the-fraud, you mean? Erediauwa the non-historian you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t name one single informant you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t cite one single source you mean? Erediauwa who is soaked in low-self eaten you mean? You must be drunk on Ewuare’s pee. Furthermore see the following:Erediauwa said there is a connection between Ife and Benin. LMAO! He just didn’t like that Ife is the father. He has been debunked by the world’s historical scholarship based on Benin accounts, material artifacts, early writings, amongst others. 2 Likes
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:17pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Think4Myself:You are in dire need of your own advice. Take your advice today. 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 9:13pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
samuk:Egharevba wrote up to the early 1970s. Which eyes do he use to write those? LMAO! Why didn’t the literate Omonoba Akenzua call him to order on the supposed false history connecting dad-Ife and son-Benin?? Erediauwa-the-fraud, you mean? Erediauwa the non-historian you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t name one single informant you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t cite a single source you mean? Erediauwa who is soaked in low-self eaten you mean? You must drink on Ewuare’s per. Furthermore see the following:Oba Erediawa who wasn't under British occupation and duress like his grandfather and father made corrections to the Benin/Ife relationship himself. Oba Erediawa is the product of the source, Egharevba claimed to have collected his stories from. Egharevba didn't write all he was told because of the aforementioned reasons. Erediawa ensured that corrections were made and the correct position of the Palace on Benin/Ife relationship was made known to the world. This position is further reinforced by oba Ewuare 2.Erediauwa said there is a connection between Ife and Benin. LMAO! He just didn’t like that Ife is the father. He has been debunked by the world’s historical scholarship based on Benin accounts, material artifacts, early writings, amongst others.Do you agree with debunked Erediauwa? Do you agree with historical scholarship throughout the world? See one example from a Bini son published in the 21st century. On the issue of Oba of Benin not having Yoruba names, you seriously expect the readers to believe that Oranmiyan remember to send magic pebbles to baby Eweka but forget to send a name.Oh wait! You mean that your “friends” from your schizophrenic world informed you that Eweka didn’t have a name prior to the name “Eweka” which he “gave himself”?? See a psychiatrist ASAP. 2 Likes
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:44pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 9:32pm On Sep 01, 2021 |
samuk:(1) Where did Egharevba later claim that there was no relationship between father-Ife and son-Benin? Bloody liar? You want to escape from your slave-masters. You lie. I ask you again, how come Omonoba Akenzua did not “call Egharevba to order” so that he disconnect Ife and Benin and supposedly restore Benins history since the British who supposedly didn’t allow that had now gone? LMAO! (2) That the names are ‘Benin names’ proves my point. That they were made up post 1896. /s No name at all existed for any Benin king (whether a Yoruba name or a Bini name) throughout the period of Benin writings pre-1897. And by the way, these Ife-princes who rule as king in Benin kingdom had pure Bini mother’s. These Ife princes were mounded for centuries inside a Bini culture. Their ways and customs are abound to be heavily influenced by the dominant culture. Even at that, many of the names are intelligible in the Yoruba language. Why did many of the Bini patrilineal princes who rule Itsekiri take on Portuguese, Itsekiri, Yoruba names? (3) We were NOT told that he RaN because the Binis were too quarrelsome. Instead, we were told that he left angrily (Ubinu) due to the disgusting ways of the backward natives. (4) Regarding Eweka’s name, his name known from the Benin traditions is Eweka. And it is said to have evolved from the Yoruba phrase “Owomika”. Says who? Says Benin traditions. (5) For the reason cited earlier, the Alaafin of Oyo is a Yoruba monarch deep rooted at home —Yorubaland. The Benin monarch on the other hand is a Yoruba monarch deep rooted in a foreign land— Edoland. There is bound to be influence on the dominant mother culture on ground. Just as it happened in Itsekiri land. 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 8:18pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 8:36pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
samuk:“Under bRiTiSh ocCuPaTiOn,” hence he lost his reading ability. Buhaha. Try harder, I am not from Benin kingdom. Moreover, Egharevba was publishing continuously up until the early 1970s. How come Omonoba Akenzua did not “call him to order” at the time since the British who was stopping them from saying their true history have now gone. Oh, I know why tHe bRiTiSH wOuLd cOme BaCk aNd cOLoNizE NigErIa iF AkEnZuA dOeS tHaT. LMAO! I know with time you will see reasons to stop being a public disgrace to yourself, family and friends. If you are still arguing that Benin had any relationship with Ife pre 1800 please show the readers were Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were mentioned in Benin history pre 1800.If a pre-1800 connection between daddy-IFE and son-Benin is what you really want to see, then read the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/1#105159559 In addition to the pre-1800 connection proven at the link, if what you’re curious to see is the spellings I-F-E; O-O-N-I; O-R-A-N-Y-A-N; et al. then I will do so as soon as you also meet a similar condition. And the condition (which should be a piece of cake) is as follows: Show me the following names (of supposed rulers of Benin) in Benin history prior to — say — 1897: Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo. This should be a piece of cake samuk. These are obas (supposedly) who are said to have ruled Benin from around the 1200s to around the 1840s. How come their names can’t be found in all the works written within that same period? Doesn’t this prove that these are mere fairytales that were made up in the 1900s? Does this not prove that these supposed individuals have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom? NB: I am simply serving you back your own jaundiced reasoning process. There is no need for all the name calling, no need to become emotional, I know all these arguments are overwhelming for you. You should have realised that you have entered one chance the moment you dedicated your life to the fallacy and fairytale called Benin/Ife relationship.The classical pre-1800 connection between daddy-Ife and son-Benin is a historical reality by all standards of historical evidence. This is not me talking. This is the world’s historical scholarship talking. Oh my bad, the whole world is out against samuk to catch him. Is there any reason why I can see through the false hope and encouragement your forcing on yourself. Samuk right now — at the screenshot below: Peace. 2 Likes
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 7:55pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 9:31pm On Sep 01, 2021 |
samuk:Crap from the obese midget, aka samuk. The Omonoba Akenzua wasn’t an illiterate. He could read and as such would find out whether or not what Chief Egharevba (the Obakhavbaye of Benin kingdom, born of an pure Benin father) published was what he collected from his court. You tried, but try another pleading. Any serious minded person who is interested in untainted history of Benin have to study Benin history before 1897 and after 1960. Between 1897 and 1960 Benin couldn't have written freely, what they wrote was with the approval of their colonial master the British a d their Yoruba local agentsAny serious person who is interested in knowing who actually was a Benin king would have to check the contemporary writings before 1897. /s After 1896, the kings name and list written is no more than the names of fairytales & fictional character who have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom. /s Samuk, show me any of the following names in Benin history prior to 1897: Eweka I Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo. None actually exist. Aren’t these mere fairytales and fictional super heroes (made up after 1897) and actually having nothing whatsoever to do with Benin kingdoms? Buhaha Before 1897, Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were not mentioned in Benin history. These names entered Benin history in colonial times of 1897 to 1960. After the British left in 1960, the narrative changed.Again samuk, show me any of the following names in Benin history prior to 1897: Eweka I Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo. As per the pre-1800 connection between father-Ife & son-Benin, that has been resoundingly demonstrated at the links below: https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/1#105159559 Peace! 2 Likes |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 7:16pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 9:28pm On Sep 01, 2021 |
samuk:Show me any of the following names (prior to the year 1897) in Benin history: Eweka I Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo. If you fail to show me one of these names, then I will be forced to conclude (like your dumbass) that these names are no more than fairy tales which have nothing to do with Benin kingdom. But if you show me one of these names, then I will be willing to give you the reference to the words Ife, Ooni, Oranmiyan in connection with the history of the kingdom of Benin prior to the year 1897. I am not interested in your interpretations of how Organe was Ooni or how oghoni was Ooni, or how Oghene became Ooni or how oghogho became Ooni. Show me the word Ooni, Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin historical records before 1897.Read the preceding comment. Also read your own Bini dictionary as shown in the 1st attachment below. Also read the summary of the conclusions reached by the world’s historical scholarship as attached in the 2nd attachment below. None of these sources show the name “TAO”. It must be really hard for you not to be paranoid that the whole world is out against you. See a psychiatrist. You have your work cut out for you. Do more research and come back with Benin history written before 1897 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.Yes, I have it ready since God knows when, but you will have it child when you show me the following names (prior to 1897) in Benin history: Eweka I Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo. If you fail to show me one of these names, then I will be forced to conclude (like your dumbass) that these names are no more than fairy tales which have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom. Your story so far is not different from the Igbo version that says, Oba Eweka was actually Oba Iweka from Nri, Ozolua was an Igbo man with the Ozor title from Nri.I don’t really care so much what one ethnic group thinks about another ethnic group. Instead, I consider what an ethnic group says about itself. And all the early evidence from Benin kingdom (be it archaeological, written, or oral) all point to Ife as the source of its monarchies and its ‘bronze’ casting tradition. Peace! 3 Likes
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:11pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
mr1759:https://www.nairaland.com/6717215/benin-own-ife-bronze#105148654 3 Likes
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:11pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
mr1759:https://www.nairaland.com/6711815/olu-warri-coronation-tsola-emiko/5#105083866 https://www.nairaland.com/6711815/olu-warri-coronation-tsola-emiko/5#105083872 Cc: niggadee 6 Likes 2 Shares
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:06pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 5:31pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Abohboy:The trident on the Opa-Oranmiyan doesn’t appear as a character of a script. The characters that I’m referring to are engravings or carvings on the obelisk itself, on the same side as the trident — but not the trident. Notice, in the first screenshot (of the Opa-Oranmiyan) that the nails driven into the obelisk are such that they all form the shape of a devils’s fork — aka “trident”. However, the characters of the script are the two (2) engravings on the obelisk which is zoomed out on the right hand side as highlighted. Another example is the image of some (if not all) of the symbols painted at the Orisa Akiri temple at Ife as shown in the second attachment below. 7 Likes 1 Share
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:25pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Abohboy:Yes the Yorubas in olden times had some indigenous script. Are the characters of the script completely intact till date? No! Are the characters of the script all decipherable today? The best that exists are guesses. But is there any evidence today that shows definitely that they did have an indigenous script, and hence a form of writing? Yes! 5 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:13pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 1:53am On Aug 26, 2021 |
Abohboy:Lol. I obviously understand English. The fact that you’ve been replying without any trouble all along proves that. Your best bet would have been that I misread or mis-understood what you wrote. In any case, my bad. I misread what you had written. 5 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:03pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
RedboneSmith:Oh, thanks. Now I see the actual point he was making. I had thought he was denying the fact that Ife had the monopoly of primary glass manufacture. My bad. Cc: Abohboy. 6 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:48pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 1:52am On Aug 26, 2021 |
YungMillionaire:Everytime I see their comments, I pity them first prior to debunking their comments. Yes, I understand that being a minority must be tough in a country like Nigeria, but I think they can do better. They must, as a matter of urgency, stop seeing cheap propaganda as the way forward. My two cents. 6 Likes 2 Shares |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:45pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 4:09pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Abohboy:Since you had “thought,” your comment below is not necessary then. I wasn’t the one who thought. My reaction was based on what you “thought”. As such my comment is justified. So where does inferiority complex come into the equation?Having said that, you appear now at this point to be in agreement with those West-African groups who point to Ife as the first among the five greatest. Got it! We are on the same page on that then. —————— Moving on from that to what seem to be your actual intended question: Are you asking whether (or not) Yorubas in ancient or classical times have some form of indigenous scripts? 6 Likes |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:39pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 4:10pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Abohboy:False! There is no evidence of glass manufacture anywhere else in sub Saharan Africa — except Ife. That’s the difference — the manufacture of primary glass from start. 7 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:32pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 1:51am On Aug 26, 2021 |
YungMillionaire:You just dey spill truth left right and center. Choi. 5 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:28pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
scholes0:Abohboy appears to be another version of the Binis — but a refined version. Ife in the whole of sub Saharan Africa had a monopoly of glass manufacturing circa the 1100s Archaeological excavations at Igbo-Olokun alongside chemical analysis of the finds have submitted this in recent years. Move Abohboy! 9 Likes 2 Shares |
| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:20pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 6:44pm On Aug 27, 2021 |
Abohboy:Documents written by Africans in what language? You mean the Africans who gave those information to Europeans are liars who chose to relegate their own in favour of a foreign African state? I don’t get what you’re thinking. 7 Likes 1 Share |
| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 3:14pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 9:29pm On Sep 01, 2021 |
samuk:Yes it was. Moreover, the Ooni, whom the Portuguese documented as “Ogane” (on basis of the Binis “Oghene”) was mentioned in Benin from the 1400s. See attached screenshot from Hanz Melzian’s “A Concise dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria”. There is no way some Yoruba will not be embarrassed by your outing.You mean am? Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan didn't appear in Benin history before 1897.This has been debunked at the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/1#105159559 Moreover, the following names, never appeared in Benin history until after 1896: Eweka I Uwuakhuahen Henmihen Ewedo Oguola Edoni Udagbedo Ohen Egbeka Orobiru Uwaifiokun Ewuare I Ezoti Olua Ozolua Esigie Orhogbua Ehengbuda Ohuan Ohenzae Akenkpaye Akengbedo Ore-Oghene Ewuakpe Ozuere Akenzua I Eresoyen Akengbuda Obanosa Ogbebo What now? (1) They never exited? (2) They have nothing to do with Benin kingdom? Use your brain despite your oba’s ban on the use of brain. Peace. 4 Likes
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| Culture › Re: The Power The Oba Of Benin Wield In The Past by TAO12: 2:59pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 4:34pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
KingOKON:Show me where any Ozolua met a Portuguese in any contemporary writing of the period. Mosquitoes and deep forest conditions prevented the Portuguese, the British and every other Europeans from wanting to see this IMMORTAL all mighty King that towered the Oba.YES! You didn’t know that?  For good 400 years while Benin traded with Europeans and when it was raided, the good and lovely sweet hearted Europeans with Fire powers that had penetrated into the deep of Congo, Mali and Burkina Faso never bothered to go look for Ogane the Suzerain king that eyes dare not SEE becos of mosquitoes and deep forestShow me one European in Mali or Burkina-Faso during the periods of the Oghoni’s overlordship. Show me one EUrOpEaN who penetrated dEeP into the Kingdom of Kongo. By the way, the Kingdom of Kongo lies on the Atlantic coast of central Africa. When I say you smoke WEED honestly it s not ordinary weed, it must be weed from this Ogane of Ile Ife weed the weed no eyes can see. When the Fulanis were rampaging Osogbo and other cities they never spoke of any IMMORTAL king instead they were converting the conquered territory to Islam and you are here telling the entire universe with your junk ass Ryder of writer that a Suzerain King that eyes dare not see with no Armies or emissaries at the courts of his subjects existed, thunder strike your WEED smoking damaged brain.See the first attached screenshot from Adam Knobler (2016:47) Ordinary children of Uthman Fodio that rampaged Ilorin never mentioned of any nonsense imaginary king it is the British army hunger for gold, artefacts that exiled the Oba who won't go looking for such superior king.The British did go there. Ignoramus. Moreover, could you explain to me what “aberration” is going on in the picture embedded here. When did territories of Benin kingdom (Esanland to be precise) become ceded to the Emirate? Just asking for a friend.  Continue Smoking your suzerain WEED from the king that eyes dare not see, maybe Methuselah should be his name nonsense.Better increase the strength of the weed you are smoking, cause you will need plenty of emOghoni (classical form) is his ‘name’. Owoni (intermediate form) is his ‘name’. Ooni (modern form) is his ‘name’. Oghene (to the Binis of old) is his ‘name’. See second attachment from Hanz Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria”. 3 Likes
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| Culture › Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 1:40pm On Aug 25, 2021*. Modified: 10:11pm On Aug 25, 2021 |
Abohboy:Apart from Benin Kingdom (where their traditional accounts point to Ife as the source of both the casting tradition and the monarchy); there is another instance of such pointing to Ife (from other places in West Africa) in the passage I cited earlier from Leo Frobenius’ work. The passage deals with Leo Frobenius’ first travel in West Africa in 1908 before he visited Ife (or “Nigeria”) at all. At these places (in other parts of West Africa), he heard frequent tells about Ife and its greatness. Frobenius documents his experience (about Ife from some other West-African regions) as follows: “When I came across some experienced explorers in 1908 in the great cities of the Niger on the southern borders of the Sahara,Timbuktu, and Wagadugu, and often discussed the antiquity of the far south-eastern cities, Ilife [Ile-ife] was mentioned as the first of five great places and it was only when in Atakpame in South Togoland, that I identified it with Ife. What I was then told in the North was so strange, indeed, that my resolve to visit the place myself at any cost was greatly strengthened.” Leo Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1., (1913), p.69. Peace! Cc: scholes0 14 Likes 3 Shares |
