₦airaland Forum

[quote author=sonmvayina post=141013553]I am not getting your point. If you look at the events of the life of Jesus through the lens of ancient history, you will agree that the records meet every academic standard.
You may not agree with them, but looking at the record from a purely academic point of view, it would be dishonest to discredit them, as they meet almost every top standard of the time.

In historical-critical analysis, scholars evaluate ancient texts using specific criteria.


1. The Paper Trail Test (Manuscript Evidence)

Think of this like checking how many copies of an ancient book we have, and how close those copies are to the day the author originally wrote it. The more copies we have, the easier it is to spot typos and know exactly what the original said.
We have over 5,800 ancient Greek copies of the New Testament. If you count other early languages, there are over 20,000.
Other famous ancient history books usually only have a few copies left. For example, Homer’s famous poem The Iliad has fewer than 2,000 copies, and other Roman history books only have a tiny handful.
The oldest scrap of the New Testament we have was written just a few decades after the original author wrote it. For regular Roman or Greek history books, our oldest copies were written 500 to 1,000 years after the author died!

2. The "Right Place, Right Time" Test (Proximity)

In history, a story is way more trustworthy if it was written while people who actually saw the events happen were still alive.
The entire New Testament was finished within 20 to 70 years of Jesus's death. In ancient history, that is incredibly fast.
Our best history books about Alexander the Great were written 400 years after he died. Yet, historians still trust them. The New Testament books were written so quickly that people who were there could have easily stood up and said, "Hey, that didn't happen!" if it was made up.

3. The Local Knowledge Test (Geographical Accuracy)

If you write a story about a real place, you need to get the details right. The New Testament gets the exact geography, politics, and local culture of the 1st century perfectly right.
The author of the book of Acts perfectly names the exact, specific political titles for different Roman leaders. These titles changed all the time, but he gets them right every single time.
The Gospels name real places in Jerusalem, like specific pools and buildings, that existed before Rome destroyed the city in 70 CE. Modern archaeologists have dug up these exact spots, proving the authors knew the area perfectly.

4. The Fact-Check Test (Outside Sources)

Historians love it when writers who weren't part of a group still mention that group's history. The main events of the New Testament are backed up by non-Christian writers from the same time period.
• Tacitus (Roman Historian): Wrote that a man named "Christus" was executed by Pontius Pilate while Tiberius was the Roman Emperor.
• Josephus (Jewish Historian): Mentioned the execution of "James, the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ," and also wrote about John the Baptist.
• Pliny the Younger (Roman Governor): Wrote letters to the Emperor complaining that Christians were spreading fast and meeting early in the morning to sing to Christ like he was a god.

5. The "Awkward Details" Test (Embarrassment)

If you are making up a fake story to make your team look awesome, you don't include embarrassing stories about yourself. The New Testament is full of awkward moments that make the authors look bad, meaning they were likely just telling the truth.
The leaders of the early church (the Apostles) are described as clueless, cowardly, and constantly arguing. Peter even denies he knows Jesus three times out of fear.
•In all four Gospels, women are the very first people to see that Jesus rose from the dead. In ancient Roman and Jewish cultures, women weren't allowed to testify in court because people didn't trust them. If the authors were making up a fake story to trick the world, they never would have picked women to be the star witnesses.



Now, people like you will say: "But the New Testament talks about miracles, so it can't be real history!"
The truth is, regular historians don't throw away a whole book just because it mentions something supernatural. Ancient history books about Julius Caesar or other Roman emperors are packed with weird omens, prophecies, and stories about the gods, but historians still use those books to learn real facts.
Or as you suggested, the authors were biased Christians, not neutral reporters!
Again, almost nobody in the ancient world was neutral. Roman historians wrote to make their emperors look good or to teach a moral lesson. Being biased doesn't mean you are lying. It just means you have to compare their writing with archaeology and other clues, which, as we've seen, match up perfectly.

Some of these jobs involve cleaning large spaces, heavy lifting in warehouses, construction work and caring for elderly people, vulnerable adults and patients with mental health conditions. Working with mentally ill patients might appear simple, but it can be highly dangerous. It can involve physical intervention, verbal abuse and serious physical attacks. It is like being paid to be a punching bag. People lose their lives, suffer eye injuries, break their noses and sustain severe injuries doing these jobs.

First, are you advising that people stop taking these jobs? Again, the average working conditions in the UK are far better than anything we have in Nigeria. People must die, be it in the UK or Nigeria. This write-up of yours really has no useful purpose.

If you are complaining, then what do you expect people in Nigeria, who suffer worse working conditions, to do? In Nigeria, you receive abuse from bosses and customers, thugs, and law enforcement. You still have the pressure from family and friends.

SmartyPants:
You're right but my point really is that this particular article is talking about his career earnings.

Yes, I noticed you clarified that down the thread.

SmartyPants:
Its obvious people do not understand the difference between net assets and net earnings over time.

This article is not saying Ronaldo has billions in net assets. It's saying he's earned billions over the course of his career.

In other words, he's not a multi-billionaire. He has indeed earned multiple billions over the course of his career, but they're not at all the same thing.

In further, other words:

If you add up all his earnings, since he started playing football but he has also spent much of that money along the way.

By way of example, you too, if you calculate your career earnings you may have earned millions but you may not have one million in the bank today.

-----

For even further clarity because some real geniuses have been quoting me to spew nonsense:

I'm pointing out that THE ARTICLE is saying Cristiano Ronaldo's career earnings have now reached several billions. This is as opposed to the understanding that Cristiano is worth several billions in net assets.

Ronaldo is worth $1.4 billion. So no matter how you look at it, His career earnings or his net worth, you will be counting in billions

sonmvayina:
The Biblical evidence for Jesus is biased because it is encased in a theological text written by committed believers., What i really want to know is: Is there extra-Biblical evidence … for Jesus’ existence?”

That is the way you choose to see it. Who do you think wrote most of the history of ancient Rome? Do you think the writers were not biased? Yet you take their works as academic facts, and you believe them.
Callisthenes of Olynthus was Alexander the Great's official campaign historian and publicist.
He was a Greek historian and the nephew/student of the philosopher Aristotle (who was Alexander's tutor).
He accompanied Alexander on his Asiatic expedition to record his campaigns. We do not accuse him of bias.
It seems you are the biased one here, and you should open your mind.

sonmvayina:
ok, so who saw Jesus when he lived and at least said something about him, it is impossible for the ''son of God'' to make an appearance and nobody noticed.


so who saw him.

let me make it easier for you, tell me one prophet who said God had a literal son that he was sending as a sin sacrifice or were God said he would sire a son by impregnating another mans wife....

You asked 2 questions; the second question solves nothing. If no prophet said the very words you request of them, it still proves nothing.
Now to your first question
Paul on his way to Damascus.
Peter, his apostle, wrote 2 letters where he testified of Christ.
John the beloved also testified of Christ in his epistles.
Then we have the Gospels
In fact, there are very few historical people or events from 2000 years ago that are better preserved or that we have as much record or information about.
In fact, there are more eyewitness records of Jesus Christ than of Emperor Tiberius Caesar. The Roman emperor of His time.

sonmvayina:
Josephus introduced himself in all his works, but on the other hand the gospels all began life anonymously, nobody knew who actually wrote them. but i have a hunch, Mark was written by Eusebius and his lieutenants used it as abase to write the others.....john was written by someone who had strong learning in Greek philosophy...hence the logos and stuff...

Still, your point is not valid. We have so much accepted as academic history without knowing who the historian is.

Dtruthspeaker:
I know you would like the country worse than this after all it has not been good for you and it won't ever be, so you are very angry that i said it is good and you want to see worse. It would only be worse for yu it is never going to affect me.

Wo unto him that calls bad good and good bad. Some of us who have traveled actually know what a good country is. If you think being the global capital of poverty makes you a good country, then you can't be helped.

I want the country to get better, so the first thing to do is to admit we are in a very bad shape. How can you improve if you keep boasting and lying to yourself?

Dtruthspeaker:
Good!

That is why God is still holding this country

You give Sharia-like punishment to a boy for being gay, and you praise your action as the reason why your false god is holding up your failed country.
People like you are the problem. You would rather attack a gay boy than face your real problems. The same country where almost every boy is into internet fraud, but let's beat the gay boy; millions of your girls sell their bodies, your police men are basically armed robbers, your politicians are destroying everything, but no, let's beat the gay boy so your god can hold nigeria.

Tjra:
I knew Obedients would raise up another thread after seeing the Abiri Dabiri topic. Everything is a contest to these tribalists.

The day you realise that Tinubu, and not Obedients, is your biggest problem as a nigerian, is the day your healing starts.

[quote author=lordm post=140945113]How is it any how.
Have you ever paid gate fee to watch a league match?

We are trying [/quote
That's not how it works. Do not expect people to pay gate fees to watch nonsense. There are a lot of things competing for our attention, so the Nigerian league also needs to compete. The question we should be asking is: What can be done to make our local football attractive? Blaming us for not watching will never change the situation in a thousand years. Make you leauge worth watching, and you will see these same people begging to pay gate fees.

ebubeson:
It depends.

(1) Prayer can never change the word of God.

(2) Prayer can change a decision God made, like in the Bible, God through a prophet told Hezekiah that He will die, but Hezekiah prayed and 15years was added to his years by God.

(3) God may change a decision if you pray strongly in a self-centered or self-willed way outside His will, but you will face the consequences.

(4) God will not change his decision concerning certains, no matter how hard you pray.

This is really dangerous and untrue. If God's mind can be changed, that makes Him imperfect and not all-knowing. You are essentially saying your prayer can update God's decision-making system. Being perfect means you always make the right decision, so what would the prayer change your perfect decision to?

raumdeuter:
The problem is they are heavy on emotions and when you challenge their argument the next thing is to throw a tantrum and insult

Deepsight begins every debate with me firing with his best points. Then I reply him and it's all over. He begins to swear and call for backup.
Its the same every day.
I look forward to it. The boy is quite unstable especially when presented with superior argument

[quote author=GracieX3 post=139468704][/quote]Lol
The corruption calculator.
How many percent corrupt is Biden and Hillary Clinton?

IjeBos:
Riots/Protest in states around the country = Storming the seat of the US government to stop the transfer of power that has been peaceful for ~200 years and kill Senators, House Members and the Vice President.

It was a demonstration that turn violent. Till date no one was charged for trying to stop the transfer of power.
These charges where only made on TV not in the court so clearly my boy you are misinformed.
But I understand you are unable to separate media sentiments with the reality of the case.

As one who claims to know it US as the back of his hand, it's funny you don't know that the Biden DOJ never prosecuted anyone for trying to overthrow the government so unless you know something the FDI doesn't, you are spewing conspiracy theories

January 6th was only an insurrection on TV not in the court house.You are the US experts but you don't know [color=#990000][/color]

sonmvayina:
Lol, I drop facts and knowledge, not beliefs, the fact that you are blind to see them does not negate it..

Stop making claims you can't prove.

So just because you call something facts, the rest of the world should accept it?
I have discussed with you more than once and each you are not able to prove your theory.
Yesterday you said God doesn't want us to worship Him because we are also God yet you quote from the old testament a book where God requested to be worshiped.

GracieX3:
No system works 100 percent. But when a system works at 30%, that is a problem.

There are leakages in every system. If corruption is waste. Obama is a little shite while Trump is a soakaway tank.

Ok now you seem confused.
How many percent corrupted is Obama?

sonmvayina:
Lol, it is fats, the fact that you are blind to them does not negate that fact.

Stop making claims you can't prove.

I don't even know what you are saying so I don't know what to add.
Please read what you wrote and edit so that you can be understood

GracieX3:
Unlike you, I am not f4cktarded enough to love any politician.

Obama had his flaws as president. But Trump is a super corrupt final boss of corruption in comparison!

Lol
You claim to be a politician one has to be corrupt. Then again you pretend to be angry at Trump a politician for corruption?
Not making sense

budaatum:
How about choices made before you were born, do they not affect the entire existence of a person?

Most girls do not choose to become pregnant in their teens, and those who do are misdirected, most often by a preying perverted adult who has no intention to stay and nurture the kids he spawns. We got one here intending to impregnate 5 teens, because, apparently, it's legal.

I don't know where you get your stats from but most teens I know were impregnated by their age grade not adults so I don't agree with you

IjeBos:
Too many people spend their lives reading and repeating Republican wingnut propaganda.

This was this thread live while the Capital was being breached.
https://www.nairaland.com/4508641/american-politics-thread-trump-47th/1848

Mostly everyone who saw it live, including me, understood the historic ramifications, that this was then first time since the US's founding, there was not a peaceful transition of power.
Given that the peaceful transition of power is a bedrock of democracy thus one of our founding principles, yes, it was/is a very very big deal.

But of course, that you read about years later, you clearly have a better understanding.
And I forgot, of course, you understand the US culture better than anyone.

The backup army repeating leftwing media lies.
In 2016 there were riots after Trump won no big deal but January 6th is the worst thing that ever happened in US history.

I understand you people need to make it the worse day in US history but how is it any worse than any other demonstration turned riot?
Oh I forgot, AOC said so

GracieX3:
Kai....so all this while, I didn't know that you have been zombified!!!! You have submitted your brain to the altar of Trump's shine at MAGA cult headquarters.

Ok, I like Trump and you love Obama but I am the zombie.
Leftist

LordReed:
Bro you LIED. We cannot leave your lie then go on. You want to communicate? Don't LIE.

You will have your time to prove if I lied but first answer my question or rest

F

bayelsaowei:
You are like Donald Trump.. insults don’t get to you but then when you look in the mirror it only tells you the kind of vile human being you are.

Rubbish!!!

Ok we have heard you my boy. You hate Trump too much we understand

bayelsaowei:
See this one..

Your family thinks they have a son or Father or Cousin that has sense.

Not knowing they are related to a Trump worshipper.. related to one who worships a grifter, felon and a sex offender as his god and personal savior.

Tufiakwa.. I pity those related to you.

The funny left
Did Deepsight not tell you that insults don't get to me?
But then what is the left without their shaming and tantrums.

We expect this level of foolishness from you

DeepSight:
Gosh. Blasphemy.

Lol
Facts.

bayelsaowei:
You are still talking to that helpless and hopeless individual?

He should be ready to follow Trump to his grave when he passes, if he chooses to. I bet you that human being can’t extol his own parents or blood family member like he does Trump.

Pathetic humans.

DeepSight, I told you, you leftists never fail. This is liberal hive mind.
You all are clones of eachother.

In 2020, Hillary Clinton claimed the 2016 election was stolen from her. Yet, she accepted defeat.
This makes her both a hypocrite and a liar.
Trump on the other hand never gave up.
He never accepted defeat and who is smiling now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ectKqs6fZtc?si=WRqsI59HwWWgRSCL

DeepSight:
Ol' boy, stop it. It's hilarious.

One of the reasons Trump is president today is because he was able to boldly reject the 2020 election even when it was unpopular to do so.
And his victory has vindicated him.
In one year, he defeated 2 presidential candidates of the left.
One with debate and the other via election.
Moral of the story, do not be afraid to stick to your beliefs.
You may be prosecuted and definitely persecuted but remain steadfast because that's the only path to victory.

Trump and Mandela teach that same great lesson.

Theawakensoul:
That’s actually an important question.

But notice carefully:
there’s a difference between:
👉 having awareness
and
👉 having unstable human emotional reactions.

When I question religious descriptions of God, I’m not saying:
👉 “ultimate reality must be a cold robot.”

I’m asking:
👉 why does an infinite being often behave exactly like ancient human rulers?

Because emotions like:
👉 jealousy
👉 rage
👉 vengeance
👉 insecurity
👉 tribal favoritism

usually emerge from:
👉 limitation
👉 ego identity
👉 fear of loss
👉 psychological attachment

For example:
Jealousy normally happens when someone feels:
👉 threatened
👉 possessive
👉 insecure
👉 afraid of losing control

So the question becomes:
Why would an infinite, self-sufficient Source need validation, worship, or exclusive loyalty?

That’s not calling God a robot.
That’s questioning whether ancient humans projected their own psychology onto the Divine.

And honestly, many mystics across traditions already described the Divine very differently.

Not as emotionally unstable…
but as:
👉 infinite awareness
👉 unconditional presence
👉 intelligence
👉 love beyond ego
👉 stillness behind existence

Even in spirituality, there’s a difference between:
👉 reactive emotion
and
👉 conscious compassion.

A wise person can love deeply without:
👉 insecurity
👉 possessiveness
👉 violent rage
👉 or tribal hatred

So why assume infinite consciousness would operate at a LOWER level than evolved human consciousness?

That’s the deeper question.

And maybe many religious descriptions of God tell us more about:
👉 ancient societies
👉 ancient fears
👉 ancient power structures

than about the true nature of ultimate reality itself.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL TAS
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING

I love honestly in discussions.
First you need to admit that you make changes to your phrase.
Initially, you claimed that God is beyond emotions.
Do you still hold to that or have you changed on that?