₦airaland Forum

THEDEEPSIGHT:
I will devote sometime to it this evening.

No biggie. Take your time.

But for starters, are you familiar with the Kalam Cosmological Argument?

I am.

THEDEEPSIGHT:
Logic, deductive and inductive reasoning.

Alright then. Logically deduce the existence of this root source and induce its properties. I'm interested to read your train of thought.

Dtruthspeaker:
My bad enemy, now are you pretending not to know the thread I mentioned or are you suffering from dementia?

Do, you real eyes that you are looking like a Liar as people have already seen them?

Why are you having such a hard time, citing the quotes in question, and publishing them here to prove I broke any "logic laws", hmmm? Here's your big chance to prove that I'm a liar, and you're being gobsmackingly casual about it, smh, lol.

Kindly provide the quotes, and let's examine them here to see if your claims are valid, or not. It's not rocket science.

THEDEEPSIGHT:
All said, there still exists a permanent, self-existent root source of all other things.

How do we actually verify the existence of this root source, for certain? Divine revelation? Gut feeling? Ouija board?

SeraphicWind:
SCENARIO 1

Christian = God Created the Universe

Atheist = Who Created God?

Christian = God is an Uncreated reality. He has always been.

Atheist = There is no scientific evidence backing your claim. So, I don't and won't believe. Above all, I won't even be open to investigating "things" of the spirit.

Christian = OK. Peace.


SCENARIO 2

Atheist = The Universe created itself through the big bang.

Christian = Who activated the big bang?

Atheist = The Universe

Christian = Who created the Universe?

Atheist = The Universe

Christian = How can the Universe create itself without first of all existing?

Because even science agrees that even if you remove everything including all the energies both black and white, black holes, planets, wormholes, galaxies etc, existing in the universe or multiverses, there must be "SOMETHING" to activate everything.

Atheist = Yes. There is something. "The God seed". We are looking for that "God seed" through scientific advancements.

Christian = Wow. "God Seed"? Wonderful. But is it not same GOD ALMIGHTY I have been talking to you about?

Atheist = Now I am totally confused.

Christian = You need not be dearest. Same way you see windy effects, "God" effects are all around you. But you rather choose to allow "Dark Energy" to manipulate you and rebel against God.

Atheist = (Kneels down in defeat and starts singing in tears)

"Praise to the Lord, the Almighty,
the King of creation!
O my soul, praise Him, for He is thy
health and salvation!
All ye who hear,
Now to His temple draw near;
Sing now in glad adoration!"

Christian =

!

You're not gonna believe how much I started laughing here, as soon as I viewed this comment, lmao. My hands are still trembling in unbridled amusement as I type this .

So you went and conjured up an imaginary, strawman atheist that completely misrepresents our arguments, and decided to argue with for rhetorical pugilism. Then you proceeded to vanquish this fictional atheist foe with ease, employing arguments that any atheist worth his salt, won't actually make. I can almost picture you, brow furrowed in concentration, conjuring this straw-atheist from the mists of your own misunderstanding, smh. I almost expected a shower of confetti and a chorus of angels to erupt from the screen after you made him fall and confess to your Lord, lmao.

Well, It's sad that you prefer one-sided conversations with sock-puppets to an actual debate. But at any rate, your imagined victory was a hollow one, as your entire fictional exchange just underscores your own struggles with countering the actual arguments of real living atheists like myself. Tell me though, I promise I won't laugh: are you truly so bereft of confidence in your own position that you have no choice but to engage in depressed shadowboxing with phantoms? I'm torn between pity and amusement for your efforts, quite frankly.

...oh and FYI, you're still going against the message in your OP. What happened to your self-awareness? Or have you changed your mind ?

SeraphicWind:
There is TRULY a being called the HOLY SPIRIT. "It" is a person

Holy Spirit? One magical being (Yahweh) isn't enough for you?

Hello.

Hello to you too, but let's not waste time on trivial pleasantries when we have unsubstantiated, imaginary nonsense to refute .

You can be an Atheist, Heathen or even Demon. That is not my business.

You forgot intelligent being who doesn't get fevers over quaint superstition .

Just do me a favour.

Anything for you, sugar .

Simply be open in whatever you are. Ask God to show you his spirit. You will marvel.

Sorry dear, but I'll pass on this. I have better things to with my time than indulge in fantasy, lol.

I am not even telling you to believe. I want you to have the idea.

I already have an idea of it, and it's the idea of baseless, unproven assertions.

The final thing.

Wait, there isn't any more? No more logical pretzels to untwist ?

Do you know why I don't argue with people on DVINITIES? Because it is 100% real and true.

History has shown us that dogmatic certainty increases in direct proportion to the lack of evidence.

I can't be arguing with people on certainties. I mean common. It does not even make sense.

Many certainties are either self-evident, or can actually be demonstrated, tested, or measured. Your God falls into none of those categories.

I am a man is a true statement. I don't need to proove it.

You're right. "I am a man" is a true statement. However, if you had claimed "I am the son of God", I'm afraid a simple "I said so" wouldn't quite cut it.

"Electricity is real" is a true statement. Even though electricity is not visible.

It's effects are visible. Try sticking a fork in a toaster.

Same with Wind. Even though Wind is not visible. But we can see "windy" effects.

Wind can be detected and measured with anemometers. What can we use to detect and measure your Holy Spirit, hmmm?

Chairman or Chairlady, The only reason you keep on arguing is because deep in your subconscious, there is an inner you longing for God. You may or may not know. The inner you is seeking answers.

I'm still waiting for one Christian here to demonstrate how reasoned skepticism, equates to subconscious yearning, lol. Projection much?

That is why the outer you spends a life time disproving what you don't know about.

The same way we spend days of our lives, watching fictional movies and critiquing them. Doesn't mean they're real. How much longer are we going to keep rehashing these talking points, hmmm?

How can I even proove to you what you don't know about? Because to people like you; seeing is believing.

No wahala. Since "seeing is believing" is such a flaw, maybe we can start a business together, selling invisible cars, lmao.

It is ok if you believe everything must be empirical. I quite understand you. It is your choice. But can I give you one final advice?

Isn't it a bit presumptuous of you to think you understand me, when you obviously can't even understand the fundamental difference, between empiricism and basic critical thinking?

Never you leave this earth without PROFESSING JESUS CHRIST, GETTING BAPTISED AND LIVING A RIGHTEOUS LIFE.

Why though? When you die and you meet Anubis, or one of the other countless Gods that you've denied their existence, and rejected for Yahweh, what's going to be your next move, hmmm?

That will be the biggest mistake of your existence be you a spirit, being, or thing.

Trust me, not worshipping your imaginary friend is not going to pull a single tooth out of my mouth,

N.B
Be mindful that this is not an arguement.

Smh, stop doing this to yourself. You know very damn well you've subtly been making unsubstantiated claims and indirect threats of eternal damnation, lol. You couldn't help, but contradict the message of your own thread, but it's fine. Happens to the best of us. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, lol.

I will not respond further to this

I could be that lucky?

I only "shared" premium knowledge with you which you are free to reject in your intellectualism.

Your "premium knowledge" has been roundly refuted over the years, by science, history, and basic critical thinking.

Peace Sir. Remain blessed.

You can keep your blessings. Thanks for the thought tho .

MaxInDHouse:
That's what some people thought but a further research into the meaning of both words shows they don't mean the same thing.

It's pointless making allusions to "further research" when, judging from the explanation following this statement, you simply make things up, rather than do any "further research", lol.

Omnipotent could be translated as able to do all things including evil deeds which totally negates the attributes of the Bible God!

Smh, lmao, Maximus you and I know, that you just conjured this dodgy re-definition, pulling it straight out of your arse. But even if we accept your re-definition, then the plot thickens, because you're defining your God's character here, and not his capabilities. I've now shown that etymologically, "ALMIGHTY" and "OMNIPOTENCE" are the exact same word, so practically, you haven't addressed anything. I'm just waiting to see where you actually demonstrate that they are different.

At Genesis 18:25 we read:

"It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?”

Kikikikikiki. Classic Maximus, scoring own goals, by submitting verses that severely undermine his very own arguments, lol. Abraham wasn't questioning God's capabilities, my dear, he was appealing to God's character, his moral nature. Like when you judge your friend for kicking a dead puppy. Doesn't mean he's physically incapable of kicking the puppy.

This is what Abraham the person God declared as father of all those having faith {Romans 4:11} said, he told God "i'm sure there are some things you can't do because you are HOLY" but omnipotent does not stop at only doing what is right that's why it's inappropriate to use it for the Bible God who can't even tell a lie! Titus 1:2

It is at this precise juncture, that your argument truly achieves peak circular reasoning, like a dog chasing its' own tail, lmao.

".....God can't do evil things because he's holy"

".....therefore we can't use 'omnipotent' because it includes the ability to do evil things"

"...which God can't do because he's holy...

.

You are desperately struggling, with excessive semantic dribbling, to limit your God's power, so that it matches your perception of his character, and yet you only succeeded in committing a categorical error of magnificent proportions, wrapped up in circular reasoning, and passionately served with a side salad of outrageous (misunderstood, at best) semantics.

..."further research", indeed .

MaxInDHouse:
I have explained to you but you just want to stick to your preconceived opinion.

Here is the answer again!

In His word we are made to understand that there are humans who serve as agents of Satan and these ones are into misleading honest hearted people {2 Corinthians 11:14 compare to Matthew 24:11} so in other to be on the right path God Himself said we should make sure of all things and hold onto what is fine! 1Thessalonians 5:21 compare to Matthew 7:16-18

So out of all the translations which one has successfully helped people from all nations to become one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers just as God purpose? Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

If you have found such a translation yet blaming God for the stubbornness in the minds of rebellious people what is my own business with that?

Very good! So if an all-powerful, all-loving, almighty and/or omnipotent deity truly wanted to communicate clearly with his creation, how come he wasn't able to do so in a way that Satan's "agents" couldn't muddle with his message, hmmm? Abi, is Satan now better at translation God's own words than God himself? Or more importantly, are you conceding that Satan is just as powerful, if not more powerful than God, that he can override God's intent, and sow the seeds of chaos and confusion through God's word ?

MaxInDHouse:
At first it seems like delusion to me too but after clarification i discovered it's no delusion rather it's misinformation.

Today i know that the true God wants all mankind to live as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers under one organization unlike what Satan is promoting "ISOLATION" which promotes hatred hence development of destructive devices just to annihilate one another.
So i can say i have sure evidence of God's presence in the gathering of His Organized worshipers today.
If you feel everything is delusion that's your own personal conclusion!

So you just swapped one set of blinkers for another, huh? Got ya .

By the way, you keep claiming that Satan promotes "ISOLATION" (in all caps, no less ), and that it leads to hatred and destructive devices, but isn't that exactly what your organization does, abi did you conveniently forget that you and your folks isolate members from the rest of society, including their family and loved ones, while simultaneously promoting the intolerant, exclusivist mentality that you're right, and everyone is else wrong, hmmm?

At any rate, you've repeatedly demonstrated here on this thread that your "sure evidence" of God's presence, is self-referential, devoid of logic, circular reasoning at best, that only people too scared to look reality in the face, employ. If that's your speed, it's not my cup of tea. I only ask questions for clarification, as I'm just a really curious cat by nature .

Aemmyjah:
If you like
Write a whole book of boring nonsense

You mean like your Hole-ly Buybull ?

It won't make you correct

...says the dude regurgitating the same tired, factless creationist talking points for centuries. You think any of the inane crap you've said here is new information? Unlike you, everything I've said here is backed by evidence and rational thought, although I'm starting to suspect that the latter is quite a monumental task for you Christians to get involved with, lol.

U did not disprove what I said about scientific fact. You said 'okay? So'

That's because you're attacking a straw man argument. Science has never claimed to be 100% reliable, as it's nothing but a self-correcting process that refines our understanding of the world. So you're only fighting with your own misunderstanding, swinging wildly in the shadows, trying to hit what's not gonna hit you back. You're attacking your caricature of science, not the real deal McCoy.

If I can't accept the science notion that men can get pregnant , am I stupid to believe what they said that life came by mere chance?

Red herring. You keep trotting out this irrelevant canard about sexuality, and I wonder why. The scientific consensus on evolution has absolutely nothing to do with gender identity, or reproductive biology. Do keep up.

The theory of evolution is bent on abiogenesis but abiogenesis is a theory defeated since the time of Louis Pasteur.

Sorry to disappoint you, my friend, but Pasteur's work on spontaneous generation, as groundbreaking as it was, did NOT disprove abiogenesis. As a matter of fact, modern science has been making significant progress in trying to understand the origins of life on Earth, so I don't know what you're on about. You're stuck in the 19th century. Try to meet up, lmao.

Biogenesis is proven as fact and scientifically proven

Biogenesis is simply just the observation, that life as we all know it, requires pre-existing life. That's it. It doesn't even begin to address the topic of the origins of life itself, lmao. You have confused a trivial observation with a profound scientific insight. I hope you're starting to realize why I said you're merely fighting your own misunderstanding of science?

If the theme of evolution is survival of the fittest , where then does our sense of justice and altruism and morality comes from?

Asked and answered HERE, at the very last paragraph. Further reading would also be in order for you, I'm not obligated to spoon-feed you. Moreover, I see you conveniently dodged the questions I posed to you, or you think you don't have anything to answer to? Abeg o, you have answer me: What does this have to do with God? If we don't understand where the concept of selflessness emanated from, does it logically follow that God exists?.

The device I use in communicating is a design.

How do you recognize design, hmmm? Is it simplicity, or complexity? More importantly, how are you able to tell the difference between a designed object, and an object that wasn't designed, hmmm? I look forward to reading your elucidation of this conundrum.

Can you compare this device to your own brain? The brain is far more complicated that the most sophisticated innovation by man but you'll be completely stupid to believe the brain is not a wonder of intelligent design.

False equivocation. We have the facts to prove that phones are indeed, created and designed, and we can easily repeat the process. Can same be said for the human brain?

Where does the seat of intelligence comes from?

Intelligence is just a manifestation and/or emergent property of complex systems like the brain, and cannot exist without the brain. We've made tremendous progress in understanding the neural basis of cognition, but I'm guessing that's just too inconvenient for your "design"-addled brain to absorb, or handle.

Over 90% of scientist believe that evolution is random. You say it is not random. Nonsense

Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat01.html

Who are the "over 90% of scientists" you're referring too, hmmm? Do you know them personally? Smh, you've started telling cheap lies to force your banal narrative, because getting acquainted with the relevant scientific literature is just too cumbersome a task for your "designed" brain, abi?

If evolution is driven by natural selection, genetic drift, as well as other basic mechanisms as you said. Can you give any prove that these factors were not accidental?

You can't ask me to prove a negative. It's like asking me to prove that unicorns don't exist. This is elementary stuff you're supposed to know and pick up before diving into theological or philosophical discussions. Besides, this reminds of another set of questions you conveniently dodged from my last rejoinder: Do you seriously think all atheists care about evolution? Do you think I'm an atheist because of evolution? How does your inability to understand the scientific consensus on evolution somehow prove that God exists?.

Was it your forefathers that started and controlled it to bring about all the life forms?

You do realize, you just channeled your creationist mythology here, and tried to project it on me, do you ?

It is like telling your own child that, there was a powerful windstorm that suddenly brought about all the sand and cement and building materials together the blocks formed itself and started foundation. The storm was so powerful that trees fell and ants began to eat off parts of it and then the furnitures and wooden elements of the house was made.

Cute analogy, but woefully irrelevant. Evolution didn't just happen suddenly. Its a gradual, evidence-driven process, spanning millions upon millions of years. You'd know this if you just pulled your head out of your arse, and adequately familiarized yourself with the topic, before coming to embarrass yourself, lol.

You're purely ridiculous

Ridiculousness is believing, without any evidence, that the entire universe came about in 7 days. Ridiculousness is believing that serpents and donkeys can talk. You should be, the very last person, to cast judgement, on what you think is ridiculous or not, lmao.

My thinking of Santa Claus, if you asked me was a big man in red and white that give gifts and grant wishes. That was what I was told and I was later told it was fiction but it was to make Christmas fun.

Just like you were told there's a bearded old white man in the sky, who cares about where you put your weiner, and what you choose to eat for breakfast, but you still gullibly accept these things till this very moment, even with your white hairs and slippery ogo .

Santa Claus actually started as an advertisement for a beverage factory in Brazil

Haba ! Beverage factory, bawo? Saint Nicholas of Myra was a bishop from 4th century, Byzantine era. Smh, lmfao, you can't even get your facts straight, and you want to talk about subjects as complex as science. This is the second cheap, bare-faced lie you've told in this discussion. Now you've really goofed up. If anyone was foolish enough to grant you even an iota of seriousness, before you committed this comedic masterpiece of a blunder, they're likely having a hard re-think, lmao.

There is no proof, no solid proof of evolution.

Ignoring the fact that there is, indeed, a plethora of evidence from genetics, paleontology, comparative anatomy, molecular biology etc etc, that you've wilfully shut your eyes to, I still need you to make me understand: Do you seriously think all atheists care about evolution? Do you think I'm an atheist because of evolution? How does your inability to understand the scientific consensus on evolution somehow prove that God exists?.

Can you provide what geneticists and paleontologist have provided to prove that evolution is fact and established?

Of course. Pick up any high-level biology textbook you can find, and you'll see it all, staring you in the face, lmfao. There's information about phylogenetic trees, comparative genomics, fossil records, and so on. It's possible you're not a science student, so you may not have learnt any of this in school. That being said, your ignorance is no one's fault, and it's not really anyone's job here to educate you, lol.

Scientists lied about how tobacco contribute to climate change and the impact of climate change and that was why nations did not take global warming seriously

Actually, the lies came from the tobacco industry and climate change deniers, and they were rightfully exposed. Scientists just corrected them. Nice try at deflecting responsibility though.

Scientists lied and are lying about the impact of drugs to the body such as cannabis

Abeg, which scientists? You mean the ones who studied its medicinal properties, or the ones who warned about its potential risks? Or are you trying to refer to the totally unscientific Reefer Madness propaganda campaign, lmao?

Today they are lying that a man can get pregnant

I'm pretty sure they meant trans men, and not average men, and yes, trans men can, and do get pregnant. It's a proven medical fact.

They are lying that gender is limitless

Pray tell, what's your qualification in gender studies, hmmm? Is it a certificate from the University of Google?

Yet, I am stupid for not accepting the theory of evolution?

You've done nothing, but stamp your feet on the ground like a petulant crybaby, sticking you fingers in your ears, and mumbling incoherent gibberish to distract, and deny facts that have been proven, and are obvious. In your puny mind, you think you can just sit on your fat arse and declare hard, evidenced facts to be lies, simply based off your own ignorance and misunderstanding of the context of those claims. No, you're not stupid for not accepting evolution, but I must say, you're a tad bit stupid for thinking that scientists are lying about everything else, while simultaneously insisting, that your personal interpretation of scripture is infallible. If that's not the height of arrogance and wilful self-deceit, I don't know what is.

If you like, fool yourself on the definition of nothing. It is your own problem

Your ignorance can never be my problem, lol.

Even if the theory of evolution is true, where does that leave you? Hopeless.

Funny how understanding reality leaves me hopeless, according to you, but having imaginary friends gives you hope.

You have no future, no hope, no reliable guidance.

...and your reliable guidance is a 2000-year-old text written by desert nomads ?

You are no different from grass and animals in the bush living for self gratification.

If I'm just like the animals, then how come I'm the only one, between the two of us, engaging in intelligent, rational thought, lmao?

Nonsense is what makes complete sense to you

...says the person who thinks a talking snake kick-started all of humanity's problems .

Dtruthspeaker:
Even in Nnamdi's thread about a secondary school girl who was forced to marry a corper, did I not cite them?

Did you not do your normal denial, and Lying and explanations explaining why you break the Laws of logic?

That is why I said on you are making noise for once you break a law of logic, I would not read whatever you wrote exactly how will strike out every word you say after you break a Laws of logic.

And that is why I keep telling you that a case is not established by noise making. Rather your noise making proves that you have a very bad case.

And laws of logic showing fallacies especially your favourite one which is ad hominems, off points, change of Posts are very very easy to spot and they render every argument after them, a nullity and empty milk cans.

My good friend, Dtruthspeaker, please stop weeping and properly elucidate your evidence @ bold, for me too see. Share the link, define your evidence and present your case, or stop crying over spilt milk, lol.

My schedule today is too crowded, to be going down rabbit holes of arguments I've already shredded apart in the past .

MaxInDHouse:
What do you care to do with the so called CLARIFICATION?

I could do a lot with it, actually. You see, unlike you, I don't have a vested interest in compulsive and wilful ignorance.

I was formerly a Muslim and when i need to clarify matters i focus on what i needed: Clarification

That's nice to know. Congrats on the conversion, although I'm not sure switching from one delusion to another grants you any sort of expertise in critical thinking.

But this case is different because your mind is already made up according to you so it's no longer clarification but a sense of LONELINESS that's bringing you here to chat with religionists!

My mind isn't made up, actually. I'm open to changing my views if you have the evidence. Unfortunately, you've got nothing left in your bag of tricks, and the way you keep quoting me, without any more new points or evidence to share, suggests to me that you're the one desperately seeking validation for your faith, because it's under serious attack .

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell you're not interested in what God has to say about Himself what you are yearning for is argument usually the fruit of ATHEISM!

Dodging relevant questions, are we ?

>>>
Very interesting. So if God can't preserve his word through one translation, what makes you think any other translation is foolproof ?
Re: Dear Nairaland Christians, Totally IGNORE ATHEISTS And Heathens. You Are Warned. by TheDevilsBride(f): 9:37pm On Feb 5, 2025

Just a heads up, Maximus, if you're going to return and edit, or revise your previous post, it would be nice to kindly inform your co-discussant, lest you be seen as a duplicitous character, employing sneaky sleight of hand with ulterior motives .

MaxInDHouse:
What do you think warranted other translations?

This is what others have to say about the same verse:

And I heard what sounded like a voice of a great crowd and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of heavy thunders. They said: “Praise Jah, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king! NWT


Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. ‭NIV‬


So if the word means ALMIGHTY but KJV rendered it OMNIPOTENT then why did the KJV used ALMIGHTY @ Exodus 6:3 and not OMNIPOTENT?


I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God ALMIGHTY, but by my name the Lord I did not make myself fully known to them. ‭NIV‬

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God ALMIGHTY, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. KJV

And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God ALMIGHTY, but with regard to my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them. NWT

So why change the word?

I'm almost starting to feel sorry for you, as it is evident that your argument is being reduced to a smoldering ruin, even as you forge ahead, still trying to flog the dead horse of semantic hair-splitting. Now, you've tried to propose the use of the word "ALMIGHTY", as opposed to "OMNIPOTENT", not so? Unfortunately, your argument dives and crashes before it even takes off, the moment we take a closer look and examine the etymology of those two words. As we can all see from the screenshots below, both words convey the idea of having unlimited power. They're practically synonyms.

If we even go further, deep into biblical context/s, the terms "OMNIPOTENT" and "ALMIGHTY" are indeed, often used interchangeably. You yourself alluded to this, albeit unwittingly as you tried to insinuate that the two words have different connotations, lmao. Clearly, the biblical authors saw no distinction between the two concepts.

MaxInDHouse:
Curiosity is one thing but when you already decided on something yet keep going back, ọmọ that's no longer curiosity but loneliness!

But repetition is not loneliness nau. It's called "seeking clarification", lmao.

I know, I know. It's a concept clearly foreign to your echo chamber .

MaxInDHouse:
What do you think warranted other translations?

Very interesting. So if God can't preserve his word through one translation, what makes you think any other translation is foolproof ?

MaxInDHouse:
Check other translations first if you want to prove that you know exactly what you are saying!

What happened to KJV ?

MaxInDHouse:
If you call it "dung" and you strongly believe in your heart that it's worthless then why not simply walk away nah?

Ọmọ your loneliness is obvious atheism is bad for you there's no need hiding the feeling we know isolation is your problem!

Can you demonstrate how innocent and simple intellectual curiosity constitutes loneliness? Why so defensive ?

Aemmyjah:
Lol

Is "Lol" the sound your brain makes when it runs out of ideas, hmmm?

It's ridiculous atheist that ask for definition of nothing

What exactly is ridiculous about it, ehn, Aemmyjah? Is it not a telling indication of your intellectual laziness, that you think you can effortlessly scorn and/or dismiss the very process of precise definition? My dear, "nothing" is NOT a self-evident concept. Please absorb this fundamental truism into your brain. Anybody who told you otherwise, sold you a lie. Nothing could mean a whole plethora of things:

> Absolute vacuum
> Quantum vacuum state
> Philosophical non-existence
> Metaphysical zero point
etc etc.

FYI, these are just a few couple of definitions ascribed to the word "nothing", and each of them carry radically different implications on their own, just so you know.

Just as woke transgender people will forever argue with the definition of woman and whether men give birth to childrrn or not

My friend, this is common practice in any academic setting. Whenever we want to try and understand complex concepts, we have to always define our terms. This is a fundamental aspect of academic discourse, which is why there's a section for definition of terminologies in research work and school projects. It's what separates logical presentation and reasoned argument from beer parlor babbling, lmao.

Is science completely reliable as to what they present as fact? No.

Okay, and so? Like many God proponents who know practically next to nothing about the scientific method, you are laboring under the delusional assumption that science must be able to provide you with the same comforting certainty of a warm blanket. I'm sorry dear, but it doesn't quite work like that. This universe we're living in, is a vast, indifferent expanse of swirling chaos, mysteries and mind-boggling complexity, that doesn't give a hoot about your emotional needs.

They have never and recently, they seem to deliberately misinterpret and contradict each other and one is the idea of sexuality which is now highly debatable.

What science simply does is to try and understand this universe by forming hypotheses, testing them rigorously, and revising them (or discarding them entirely) if/when the evidence demands. When the results are in, science uses them to build models that approximate (<<<notice the verb I used) reality. Are the models perfect? Definitely not! In fact, far from. But they don't necessarily have to be perfect, and that's the beauty and strength of science: it examines, challenges, revises, refines and improves knowledge. Plus it's the best method we have now for understanding reality.

You're too busy decrying science for not being "completely reliable", and yet here you are, using its' fruits. Abi how do you think the device you're using to communicate with me came about, hmmm? Shebi it fell from heaven? Or your God pulled it out from his anus and gave it to you? Since it's not completely reliable, why not discard it and post handwritten letters to me via the post office? Mate, you're living in the 21st century. Don't be archaic.

If you don't understand what I mean by the question of life coming from nothing, may be I'll help you

Do tell. I'm all ears.

Did life result from blind, unguided and random events (accident). Does the evidence point to an accident or a thoughtful process and design?

Look, there's nothing like "accident" or "design". You have presented a false dichotomy here. If you don't know what the highlighted term means, it's a type of logical fallacy where you assume that there are only two possibilities, and none else exist. There's many other ways life and the universe, might have come about. Now, I'm not a scientist myself. My only resources are scientific journals and peer reviewed research that can be accessed via the internet. So I'm just going to re-iterate the scientific consensus, because I think it's clear enough: Evolution is simply a non-random, non-accidental process, that is driven by multiple factors such as natural selection, genetic drift, as well as other basic mechanisms. Scientists have evidence from various fields like genetics, paleontology, comparative anatomy, and molecular biology to confirm and assert that life, indeed, evolved over millions of years through a series of gradual, incremental changes.

But most importantly though, I need to understand why you think I, as an atheist, should be expected to know and defend these things. This is one particular detail that has bothered me about Christians, lol. Do you seriously think all atheists care about evolution? Do you think I'm an atheist because of evolution? How does your inability to understand the scientific consensus on evolution somehow prove that God exists?

If you go to the street and ask people what a radiowave, xray, microwave means, many do not know and that does not mean they exist.

This particular statement of yours just made me realize that you didn't even read my previous response to you. Perhaps you just glossed through it, for the sake of making a response. I say this, because if you truly did read my response, you'd have seen the very clear and poignant distinction I outlined there, between concepts like electromagnetism and God or spirits.

The same kind of evidence that will convince a scientist that microwaves, radio waves, x-rays, UV rays, IR radiation etc etc exist, even though he can't physically set his sights on any of them. Can you guess what all of the aforementioned have in common? That's right: measurable effects. The fact that you can't see them, doesn't mean you can't measure them. Every color has a specific wavelength of visible light that cause different optic nerve cells to fire when the light falls on particular cone-cells in the retina.
Re: If God is love, why did He harden Pharaoh's heart in Exodus 9:12?" by TheDevilsBride(f): 3:38pm On Feb 5, 2025

What we have learned so far from the creation is very small and our understanding is far from perfect. The knowledge is more than limitless and there are mysteries. And that is just our universe.

Thank goodness, that you saw fit to concede, and make this very honest admission of the limitations of our knowledge as human beings. However, I got a bit amused, watching you undermine and scatter everything you just said with your very next statement here:

Only a woke, blind cretard who does not know 1% of everything about life and the universe will conclude there is no God.

Ignoring the childish and needless ad hominem you trotted out there, this was such a hilarious non-sequitur to your previous paragraph, I was almost tempted to laugh out loud at your bizarre logic. In all your perceptiveness, you managed to admit the vastness of the cosmos, as well as our relative insignificance in it, even going as far as to acknowledge that there are many mysteries in the natural world, that we don't have answers to yet. So for the life of me, I can't fathom how someone can readily admit all these facts, and still come to the absurd conclusion, that there is God who created the world in seven days, who experiences pleasure, jealousy, anger, etc etc, lol. I mean, how does it follow logically, that the existence of mysteries and unanswered questions is evidence for the existence of God?

How do you measure God?

The same way I measure unicorns, fairies leprechauns, goblins, orcs and the Flying Spaghetti Monster - I simply don't, lol. You see, your God, just like these mythical creatures I mentioned, is far beyond any form of measurement, detection, or even falsification, and so when it comes to establishing your God's existence as a fact, I withhold belief, as such a concept cannot even be tested or measured by any tool we use to understand our reality and form a consensus.

Besides, there are many people who strongly believe in the existence of a creator including scientists and politicians but they don't have any religious affiliation...

I'm not sure what your point is here, but if you're trying to appeal to popularity (which is a well studied logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum, I'll just have you know that your appeal is dead on arrival. The fact that many people from various walks of life believe in it doesn't make it true or valid. Belief is not, and can never be a reliable metric for determining fact. I can muster a million kids who believe in Santa Claus. Does that make him real, lmao?

Now, where does our sense of altruism comes from? Do they evolve from animals?

Altruism has evolutionary roots, and is often explained by group selection, reciprocal altruism etc etc. Again, what does this have to do with God? If we don't understand where the concept of selflessness emanated from, does it logically follow that God exists?

MaxInDHouse:
There you go again!
Where is omnipotent written in the book?

And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
- Revelation 19:6 KJV

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
- Hebrews 1:3 KJV

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
- Matthew 19:26 KJV

Great is our Lord, and of great power: His understanding is infinite.
- Psalms 147:5 KJV

Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
- Isaiah 40:28 KJV

I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
- Job 42:2 KJV

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
- Romans 1:20 KJV

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us.
- Ephesians 3:20 KJV

Ah Lord God! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee.
- Jeremiah 32:17 KJV

E shock u abi ?

I know say the first one shock you .

MaxInDHouse:
You kept repeating this word but failed to see how it's pointing right back at you because if you are truly intelligent you should concentrate on something better than picking only the thing you have left behind and always worried about what is happening there!

Smh, the word salad in this response, has more loose ends than a bowl of spaghetti in a wind tunnel. Not surprising though, especially when your logical framework is built on the shifting sands of selective interpretation. The fact that you've resorted to pointless tu quoque proposals, tells me everything I need to know, that you've finally reached the bottom of your barrel, as far as this topic is concerned. Don't get it twisted, I'm not worried about what's happening in your intellectually stagnant corner of the debate. I simply observe you, much like a nature enthusiast observes a particularly tenacious, stubborn species of beetle clinging to a rapidly eroding heap of steaming dung, lmao.

SeraphicWind:
God bless you Sir Ma.

May God almighty call you one day like he called Apostle Paul in the mighty name of Jesus the Christ. Amen.

Remain blessed Child of God almighty, in the mighty name of Jesus the Christ. Amen.

Peace Peace Peace

.

Aemmyjah:
What's the empirical evidence that life or living form comes from nothing?

I wonder where you learnt that from, as the idea that "life came from nothing", is not even a widely held consensus within the scientific community. Maybe you can start by defining "nothing" for me?

What evidence will you give a blind person about colors or that something verified by sight exists?

The same kind of evidence that will convince a scientist that microwaves, radio waves, x-rays, UV rays, IR radiation etc etc exist, even though he can't physically set his sights on any of them. Can you guess what all of the aforementioned have in common? That's right: measurable effects. The fact that you can't see them, doesn't mean you can't measure them. Every color has a specific wavelength of visible light that cause different optic nerve cells to fire when the light falls on particular cone-cells in the retina.

Is it everything that exists that we can see or hear?

Nope. Not everything that exists can be seen or heard. There are countless of invisible forces and imperceptible entities within the universe like atoms, dark matter, gravity, electromagnetism, etc etc.

MaxInDHouse:
Highlighted shows you aren't current!

He says unironically, before later going on to share quotes from his ancient religious script, lmao.

There is well over 41 thousand different religious groups all claiming Christians!

41,000 religious groups is a resounding and spectacular failure of divine communication, lmao. How is it that your omnipotent deity apparently can't even manage basic coherence among supposed "true believers"?

That's why i keep telling you that you guys aren't informed rather you're just protesting.

I'm not sure you still understand the difference between a protest, and mere intellectual curiosity.

The book itself says a time will come when many will be deceived by false teachers robbing people of their hard earned money in the name of Jesus and the book told how to unravel the secret! Matthew 7:16-18

"Beware of false prophets" is an interesting charge coming from a book written by actual failed and false "prophets" .

Out of all the so called "denominations" claiming they are followers of the man from Nazareth only one has proved to be true with evidence.

I'd love to see this acclaimed evidence. I just hope it's not something that requires suspension of every known law of logic and rational inquiry.

So if you with all your research couldn't figure out that then you've been deceiving yourself Ma!

Psychological projection is an interesting subject that you should probably look up, between your failed biblical exegeses, lol.

MaxInDHouse:
Madam let me enlighten you!

Judging from your antecedents, I'm highly doubtful that anything you say will be particularly insightful or "enlightening" to me.

God's word said in the last days which we are in right now there will be famine not for food but knowledge about God {Amos 8:11} by the time God decides to help those who are hungry and thirsty for truth {Matthew 5:6} like you He will make the truth available but it's only humble people will be benefited not arrogant ones. Zephaniah 2:2-3

It seems even your own Bible is acutely aware of its' intellectual bankruptcy, and is making excuses, lmao. Kikikikiki.

So it's not only you that's worried about what's been happening we too are worried but we have found the answer to the questions bothering our minds for long unlike you who just feel it's all rubbish yet you keep seeking the attention of those studying the books!

You're still repeating yourself. We've already agreed that you found your answer to complex existential questions by cherry-picking obscure biblical passages, and ignoring the glaring ones that call your dubious narratives into question, lol.

Madam there is a big difference between doing what is wrong in the hidden and doing the same in the public.

Very interesting. So apparently, the cardinal sin isn't the act itself, according to you, but the audacity of transparency. In that case, I guess I can indulge in whatever evil I wish to indulge in like petty theft, abuse, murder, etc, as long as I'm keeping it on the low, right? Afterall, moral transgressions are perfectly acceptable, if they're sufficiently concealed. Smh, indeed.

One doing something bad and hiding it surely lack self worth he or she already knows it's not humane but those doing it publicly are seriously sick because they need special attention for them to know that coming like that into the public makes them unworthy in the society!

More weaponized sanctimony. The worth of individuals in the society is definitely NOT determined by how meticulously s/he conforms to your trite, bizarre, narrow, beige-tinted aesthetic of respectability. As a matter of fact, I'm outrightly flabbergasted that you've somehow managed to elevate such spurious, superficial judgments into a quasi-theological doctrine of personal value. Here's a hint, mate. Stop policing self-expression. I guarantee you, it's not a productive use of your clearly abundant time.

Aemmyjah:
What kind of evidence convince you that something exists?

Requirements >>> Empirical evidence. Testable hypotheses. Verifiable facts. Reproducible results. Peer-reviewed research.

Irrelevant and/or not needed >>> Anecdotes or personal testimonies. Ancient religious texts. Hearsays. Superstitions. Logical fallacies. Wishful thinking. Preaching. Ad hominems. Lies. Threats.

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell you people said "goodbye" to faith in God but you're still looking back not sure of what you chose!

Haba nau, we're only challenging dogmas that have been used throughout history to justify everything from scientific ignorance that impedes social progress, to outright atrocities committed by religious fanatics. Why are you guys so defensive, lmao? Did any of us kick your dog ?

Hmmmmmmm so are you saying these guys are good to go in the society and fit for job interviews with their appearance?

Do you seriously think that a well-groomed buzz cut or a hijab is indicative of character, competence and reliance in the work place? The pastors that fleece their church members and those your JW brethren that cover up child abuse, are they not wearing neat clothes, diligently starched, with nice cologne and trimmed haircuts? Or is it only tattoos and piercings that trigger your misplaced moral outrage, lol?

SeraphicWind:
Peace Peace Peace

War, war, war .

Peace to your soul. May the Holy Ghost fire of God almighty locate and fill you up one day in the mighty name of Jesus the Christ. Amen.

My dear, "souls" are as only real as your ability to prove they exist.

May every spirit tormenting you and shielding you from the truth be obliterated with the fire of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Honestly, the only thing tormenting me here is the profound misunderstanding of basic logic and common sense that is rampant with most of you Christians on this forum.

I have no issues with your body. It belongs to God almighty.

My body belongs to me. Your God is not even a tenant in my crib.

I am more interested in that spirit operational in you. That is what needs to be incinerated. Once it is deleted and the OS of heaven is installed on your inner man, you will see what I am telling you.

Heaven runs on Windows OS? Wow! Little wonder then, all the bugs present in your in religion.

Unless you are a demon by default in which case, I will still understand you.

Funny how you see people that seem far more knowledgeable than you as demons .

You are performing the duties the devil commissioned you to perform. Still on that, peace on to you.

If any devil commissioned me, he really needs to start paying me and other non-believers overtime, lmao.

One day, you will thank me. Believe me.

I'm thanking you right now, for providing excellent materials for ridicule since yesterday .

God bless you Sir or Ma.

Which of the Gods, hmmm? There are thousands to choose from .

MaxInDHouse:
Just imagine you saying "God doesn't exist" yet you can't do without people who have this imaginary sky friend.

I'm also a diehard Harry Potter fan. I've read all the books, watched all the movies. I've even got some merch here at home, of the franchise. I can talk about it all day, doesn't mean I believe Hogwarts is real though.

So we say there is someone somewhere who deserves our worship that's why we often gather to reason on what He wants us to do...

Isn't it interesting, how you're all experts on the preferences of someone you've never met, lol. No wonder you jesters can't even get along, coming up with a thousand denominations, with a thousand different doctrines, despite the fact that you've been "gathering to reason" for centuries, lmao.

...but funny enough people like you who said you've been set free from such thought are still seeking our attention seizing every opportunity to chat with us.

Film critics that appraise and examine your Nollywood flicks, are they lonely too, hmmm?

Is that not a sign of loneliness? Proverbs 18:1

Nope. Just a sign of healthy intellectual curiosity .

MaxInDHouse:
Atheism is another tool Satan is using to promote ISOLATION, an average atheist strongly believe in his heart that all religionists are deluded fools so instead of asking for the benefit of faith in God they focus on the confusion found in the world of religion forgetting that this can't be a reason to outrightly condemn faith in God since religion is found in the life of IMPERFECT HUMANS.

If you're trying to imply that atheists are too clever for your god, I totally hundred percent agree with you, lol. You may need to know as well, that we're also clever enough to see through your transparent scapegoating.

So if imperfect humans err in getting the right sense of God does that mean God doesn't exist? The answer is NO!

So you're saying God exists, but because he's obviously a couch potato, he would rather play petty peek-a-boo games, even when people are sincerely searching? Doesn't sound like a benevolent God that wants a relationship with his creation. But then again, you were just arguing in the other thread that God is biased and selective with his creation, so what do I know, hmmm?

Therefore it's unscriptural to avoid these lost souls because Jesus said we should go continually to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL! Matthew 10:6

Technically, I'd say we atheists, are the ones who've found our way, out of the flock of unthinking sheep blindly following a 2,000-year-old shepherd.

You may be shocked why i liken atheists to lost sheep that Jesus asked us to fish out {Mark 1:17} please ask yourself what these people who says they don't believe in God are doing 24/7 on the religion section of a forum having many sections that they can be?

No sacred cows here, my dear, hallelujah for free speech! Like any other work of fiction, we're simply critiquing the plot holes, character flaws, goofs, continuity errors, outdated themes etc. Or do you also get your knickers in a twist over film critics dissecting and pointing out errors in Star Wars movies, hmmm?

Well don't be surprised that they are feeling lonely!

...says the grown up, adult man with an imaginary friend in the sky !

ATHEISM promotes ISOLATION as i said earlier and the way God created humans we need to interact on what God says about life in general it's like FOOD for our soul {Matthew 4:4} so there's no way a sane person who feels concerned for how people should treat others will not like to share his thoughts on the topic! Malachi 3:16

My lack of belief in your sky-daddy doesn't prevent me from enjoying a good pub quiz or a fun game of chess with my mates, neither does it prevent me from going out on Friday nights with the lads.

The real atheists will never like to share his thoughts with anyone because doing so will make him to start reasoning with people who will question his lifestyle.

Many of my acquaintances over here are aware of my views, as I'm not insecure to discuss about them, unlike you religious lot who are too wuss and frightened, to critically appraise and examine your own beliefs. Nevertheless, I don't blame those atheists in highly religious countries for keeping mum, considering the numerous instances of religious dogma being foisted upon people, often through violence, if I might add.

So if you see anyone claiming atheist but always seeking the attention of people talking about faith know today that they are not real atheists but lost souls!

Mate, you've really got to relax and lighten up a little, smh, lol. Atheists don't bite. We're just allergic to logical fallacies and enjoy pointing at the empty emperor's wardrobes .

MaxInDHouse:
This is all i need!

Kikikikikiki. Just dey play. You're driving hard, long nails into the coffin of your credibility. Absence of evidence, is not only just a reason, but a very solid requiem for your so-called "faith", lmao.

Lengthy epistle is a sign of weakness to me so i pick the point you may be using as your power house!

Am I surprised that you would "hold unto" a single line of my entire response, without addressing the entire surrounding posts that give it context, because you wish to fabricate your own narratives and agenda?
Re: If God is love, why did He harden Pharaoh's heart in Exodus 9:12?" by TheDevilsBride(f): 7:23am

Maximus, you can't keep up with me, cause you simply lack the patience and/or intellectual honesty to face the truth and kiss it. Deep down, you know my words are hitting very close to home, so you're trying desperately, clinging into frivolous details, without trying to grasp the full picture. You're quite simply out of your depth here, and it's no ones fault but yours, lol.

Point 1
ATHEISM is the high fence you guys built around you to block faith in God but why do you still seek the attention of religionists?

Abegi, please spare us the amateur, roadside psychoanalysis. We know you're just trying to make yourself feel better about your lack of substance, lol. All we're doing is simply questioning the misinformation and superstition that you lot have been peddled for centuries. Why so butthurt, hmmm? Call it a public service. You're welcome .

Point 2
Sound evidence showing ATHEISM can't stand on its own without religion so whenever atheists wants to use their brains is talks talks talks about religion.

You're the one, who can't stand on your own two feet without religion. You're too scared to even leave your room in the morning, without mumbling to your imaginary friend, lmao. We don't need your fairy tale stories to experience life as it is. We just point and laugh at you lot, who lack that independence .

Point 3
I'm really amazed how you quickly swept under the carpet the opinion that you can't present any of these persons as your child in the public because it's a sign of failure on your part as a mother!

By your trite logic, any parent who purposefully lets their young lad get a haircut or wear glasses is also a failure, not so? Your moral compass is just as wonky as your argument. It is well .

MaxInDHouse:
I will hold unto this!

Am I surprised that you would "hold unto" a single line of my entire response, without addressing the entire surrounding posts that give it context, because you wish to fabricate your own narratives and agenda? The answer is no of course, as I'm already accustomed to these cheap plots you lot employ to win by any means necessary, lmao.

So isolation is disconnecting oneself from REASON and EVIDENCE.

As it pertains to you Maximus, yes.

Question:
What is the REASON for having FAITH in a SUPREME BEING?
Answer:
Because humans are intelligent creatures each having his or her own mindset and in the absence of superior authority there is bound to be disorder hence we all need to agree on one source of guidance not necessarily what we can see but that which will help us all to cohabit peacefully.

So your "reason" for faith is nothing but a poorly, half polished admission that you can't handle the mysteries and uncertainty of life without an imaginary friend. Noted.

Question:
What could be the EVIDENCE that some have found such source of sure guidance?
ANSWER:
Since our aim is to get a sure guidance for peaceful cohabitation any group of persons that has successfully gathered people from all races together and made them to have LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, MILDNESS, FAITH and SELF-CONTROL permeating their gathering should be given the credit because that is what mankind need not building destructive weapons to intimidate or scare people into doing what we think is right!

Your "evidence failed to take into account, the likelihood that these positive emotions and behaviors, as explained through neurobiology and social evolution, may often arise from entirely natural, humanistic sources? Abi do you really think that the only way to explain people coming together and exhibiting all those buzzwords you're using like "LOVE", "KINDNESS" etc etc is some sort of supernatural guidance? More importantly, how does it necessarily follow, that because your religion brings people together, it means the claims and assertions made therein, are justified? Haven't you heard of the axiom: Correlation does not imply causation?

Please present a REASON and EVIDENCE to support ATHEISM in the same manner if it's not just about promoting ISOLATION!

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

> REASON: the absence of any evidence from religionists and other God proponents.

> EVIDENCE: Untestable prayer hypothesis, failed prophecies, the lack of miracles, and the seamless, unperturbed functioning of the natural world without any supernatural intervention.

See the adverse effects of ISOLATION below.

Pffft @ attached pic. Having piercings and tattoos is just as unnatural as wearing clothes or using a keyboard, abi did you suddenly forget that you came into the world, butt naked, without any clothing or enhancements, hmm, lmao?