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 Religion / Re: Night Of Bliss With Pastor Chris Oyakhilome by TQFS: 12:01am On Mar 17, 2009 |
hubreality: If by any chance you meant to say "defiles" a man then you're really misquoting Matthew 15:18. But I'm assuming you meant "defines" a man and the question still stands: Where is that statement in the Bible?? What is the basis? |
| Religion / Re: Night Of Bliss With Pastor Chris Oyakhilome by TQFS: 10:58pm On Mar 16, 2009 |
hubreality: Where is that statement in the Bible?? What is the basis? Is it logic? Psychological insight? Or just blind defense? |
| Religion / Re: A Question For Tithe Payers by TQFS: 10:33pm On Mar 16, 2009 |
An additional note on the issue of tithing. As KunleOshob rightly stated, we as Christians are not under any obligation to pay tithes. This does not mean we are against giving to God. Far from it !! Giving to God is a very key requirement for Christians but the reason and approach to giving is the issue. Firstly, It is not stated in any way, shape or form in the New Testament that tithing is a requirement for Christians. Malachi 3 has long been used as a tool to instil fear in the hearts of Christians with the sole objective of compelling them to submit money. We must keep in mind that this law of the Levites was a requirement under the Mosaic Law which is not valid any more for Christians (i.e. New Testament churches). The very concept of “Christianity” should be enough evidence of the new and the old. Furthermore, the law on giving for Christians has been clearly defined in the new testament and should supersede others. Remember Matthew 5:17 (NIV) where Jesus said: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished". This is followed by Christ's subsequent death and fulfilment (i.e. nullifying) of the old laws. Luke 24: 44-48 (NIV) (What will fulfil the old laws?) 44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. Romans 7: 4-6 (NIV) (We serve in the new way of the Spirit rather than the old way of the written code) 4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 10:4 (NIV) (Christ is the end of the law) 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Galatians 3:23-25 (NIV) (faith and the old law) 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Ephesians 2:14-15. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, Colossians 2:13-14 (NIV) (The written code has been cancelled) 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. Hebrews 7:10-20 (NIV) (The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless) 11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." 18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. If you truly believe in Christ then you will follow the laws of grace as defined in the New Testament for Christians. For example, see 2 Corinthians. Furthermore, the New Testament describes giving to God as an act of free will not of some form of compulsion as in 2 Corinthians 9: 6-8 (NIV) 6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion , for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. Note that nowhere does it say a fixed amount or 10 percent. The act of faith based giving is further strengthened by the fact that Jesus commented on giving as a result of faith not just adherence to law in Luke 11: 42. 42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. Luke 11:42 is commonly misconstrued by many to mean that Jesus supports the continued application of the tithing law. However, we must remember that Jesus was bound by the Mosaic Law prior to fulfilling the law and creating the new covenant. Furthermore, the rebuke is meant to point out the folly of giving without the love of God and justice as the primary reason. In my opinion, the tithing law (which according to the bible is no longer valid) is a loop hole that has been exploited by some people in Nigeria to extort huge sums of money from God fearing citizens. Nothing can enrich quite like a tax-free consistent stream of very significant sums of money from a large group of people. It can be likened to concerts (remember the rolling stones’ last tour?) but held on a monthly/weekly/daily basis. I fully support the act of giving an amount proportionate to your personal blessings (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) as you feel in your heart and through faith as clearly stated in several parts of the bible, but I do not subscribe to the institution of a recurrent obligatory tax/levy (with fixed amounts or percentages) on well meaning people with the promise of blessings (which suggests attempt to bribe God) and the use of peer pressure (compulsion), media haranguing (compulsion), follow-up (compulsion), threat of a curse as in Malachi (compulsion) amongst other tactics to enforce submission of cash. Such dodgy practices are clearly against the Christian teachings in the bible and should be shunned by true Christians. |
| Religion / Re: A Question For Tithe Payers by TQFS: 2:09am On Mar 16, 2009 |
Image123: @Image123 OMG!!!, this is definitely not in the bible. Why did you construct this? And why are so many bits of that passage missing?? It looks to me like you're only extracting the portions that can be sewn together to support your position. Now if you feel like piecing stuff together, consider a true fact that can be seen in Hebrews 7: 5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. 11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."[a] 18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. If anything, that passage suggests the scrapping of the law. But all that aside, OMG!!! again, do not add to the bible. I am so disappointed. |
| Religion / Re: On The Issue Of Tithing : What Do You Think? by TQFS: 11:25pm On Mar 15, 2009 |
@Marvis Joy Please do not be offended. I have read several other threads on this same issue and it may seem a bit old but I was just hoping that I could find anybody that could bring a reasonable arguement for tithes. I have seen some brilliant arguements against tithes (e.g. KunleOshob's amazing posts) but nothing for it. Is there anyone tithe payer out there who can say why he/she pays tithes and support it with the word of God (i.e. the Bible). P.S: Please do not come at me with Malachi. |
| Religion / Re: Nigerian Churches And Money by TQFS: 10:45pm On Mar 15, 2009 |
afam4eva: I understand what you mean. The trend is quite alarming and if you check properly you will see that this business model has has been copied line-for-line from American pentecostal movements. The objective at the genesis some decades ago was to whip people into a frenzied state whereby they will be willing to part with sums of cash. Nowadays, it is augmented with extensive use of the media, internet, mail and brochures amongst others, to request "gifts" (always money) and sell products. If enough people are convinced, numerous cells start to spring up in different locations all with the primary objective of remitting cash to the main body. When it comes to religion, humans are easily brainwashed and tend to believe the fantastical. It could be religious addiction, fear of hell, ignorance, group mentality, pressure etc you name it. Whatever the reason, many individuals with good stage skills have zoned in on the flaws and are cashing in. |
| Religion / On The Issue Of Tithing : What Do You Think? by TQFS: 8:27pm On Mar 15, 2009 |
On the issue of tithing, I recently had a short discussion about tithing on an unrelated thread and I must say I was not convinced. I don't believe in the concept of tithing because it is not a Christian law. Besides giving should not be enforced as clearly stated in the bible. Furthermore, any decent study will show you that tithing and pressure based giving is one of the foundations for "prosperity" churches in our world today. What do you think? P.S: No insults please!! Especially CE folks. Chill. |
| Religion / Re: Night Of Bliss With Pastor Chris Oyakhilome by TQFS: 10:18pm On Mar 14, 2009 |
hubreality:  ? Where is it in the bible? |
| Religion / Re: Night Of Bliss With Pastor Chris Oyakhilome by TQFS: 7:55pm On Mar 14, 2009 |
@Hubreality The law appears to have been applicable at that time based on the fact that the tithes were a form of tax paid to the government which in most cases was a religious government. The applicability in our time is questionable as there is no church running any country. But all that aside, my main arguement against tithes is the fact that it is based on a law (Mosaic Law) which is no longer valid (according to the bible). |
| Religion / Re: Night Of Bliss With Pastor Chris Oyakhilome by TQFS: 12:02pm On Mar 14, 2009 |
@Hureality, On the issue of tithing, could you please explain to me why Christians should pay tithes? |
| Religion / Re: I Am Suing Pastor Chris Oyakhilome For N200 Million by TQFS: 1:06am On Mar 14, 2009 |
If indeed the journalist was treated as he narrated in his post then Christ Embassy should be held accountable. The decision to molest the man was taken by officials of the “Church” acting on behalf of the “Church” and as such the “Church” should pay for their indiscretions. |
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