₦airaland Forum

@Tbaba . Peace.

i really do believe that you doing what u doing out of honorable intentions. We have never had any aquaintance, maybe cos u are new here. I said something here in d past and i will say it again: until the muslims realize that they have been mislead en masse, and decide to make a change to restore islam to its pristine purity- the world will never acknowledge the quran as God's word.
What MAZAJE and others say about islam is the reality as seen today .the muslims invented indefensible tales(lies: hadith & sunnah) and attributed them prophet muhammad.this is what is haunting them today.this is all due to ease of access to information, and am happy to that.

To discuss about the corruption in islam will take months. However, i see that u appear to be a sincere person as opposed to the others i had chats with before. So, i will start by inviting u to consinder the following proposition:
1)visit: www.miracleof19.org , www.masjidtucson , www.submission.org

2)after u have perused through the infos there, then we can have an open discussion.

@mkmyers

You are indeed very correct sir. If God as described by the religious people is truly omniscient;then it really makes no sense that He reveals in the same scripture one thing only to be invalidated by another revelation.
mr, please do not confuse the adherents of any religion, with the religion itself. Todays islam has absolutely nothing to do with muhammad.the true islam preached by muhammad is buried under tradition, religious dogma and superstition.

abrogation of quranic verses is an invention by the islamic scholars centuries after the death of that noble servant of God. I did present a detailed refutation on this a while ago. Just search for "Quran abrogation:truth or fallacy" using the NL search engine. Pardon me, am using my phone so i can't provide the link.

@Op
i really doubt if i've got the energy and time to continue this millenia old argument of "God" against "no God". It doesn't take a genious to realize that a different kind of input is needed to put an end to this endless argument.
I do believe in an intelligence behind the grand artistry(design) we observe in our world today. I will be doing a great injustice to the accumulated human knowledge/experience if i allude all these observable phenomenon to fortuitous consequence. That said; how do you equate such intelligence to a Particular designer without any emperical proof to justify such? Think about it.

@ea7
you are most welcome.

no, i am neither a deist nor agnostic.
i am a theist. But think of me as a fusion of all of them(theism + atheism + deism + agnosticism + x).
i know it sounds strange, but believe me, in my quest for truth- i had passed through the thought line of the above mentioned concepts i.e i had the tedency. But i am glad today all that is history. I owe it to the most cognizant.

snthesis: can you fault the logical sequence below
Atheism: the theory that God does not exist

hmm!!! i think you are overthinking and missing the point in totality- uve skipped a boundary. i will break it down for you with a simple example.

Man made Machines e.g a Robot
Man thus created a Robot
Logically Man is God unto the Robot

now lets go a step further;
assume this Robot was built with programs, processors and all the gimmicks necessary to make it seemingly think, it can think and act independently e.g deep Blue. in other words it has "intelligence"
now armed with this "intelligence" it begins to question who made it? if Man made me? who made Man? and who made the one that Made man and it goes on and on and on-- (till it short circuits ) and such it decides there is no Creator
it has forgotten the fundamental fact (Boundaries -lower and upper limits) Man made it, as such his allegiance is to His God -Man. anything out of that thought process is folly.

1) I fault the theists and the atheists for not providing any proof to substatiate their position/decision.

2) i adressed theist in my post cos you are a theist and the originator of this thread.

3) the robot analogy- incoherent with logic: assume that such a robot is able to develope sophisticated thought patterns like that of humans, would it find it difficult accepting it was designed by a human? NO! WHY? Because it would've witnessed such a human re-creating its kind(robot).that will be sufficient proof.
in the absence of an irrefutable proof from such a God, questions such as: 1)why God rather than gods? 2) Why there is suffering and evil? will continue to be asked.
The only way to prove such a God, is if the God Himself provides a proof capable of withstanding scientific scrutiny.

^Deep Deep Deep.
no questioning the fact that you are a smart individual. The question that still persists is: where is the evidence? At best, what the natural world around us provides us with is an evidence of an intelligence behind its creation, but not the evidence of the creator(s) itself-no more than that. Do you by any means have even an ounce of proof that such a spirit realm is possible? I ask in good faith.

@Op & people with similar agenda(convincing the atheists)

Is it really true that the average atheist has got sound and logical reasoning than the average theist? The more i see theists bring forth such proposition as that of the OP, the more i am inclined to believe that the atheist are in fact smarter. Why? Well, look at the ops post. Here,the op delves into one of the most heated argument in the history of philosophy,science and religion i.e God vs no God, or creationism vs no creationism. Yet, the op begins with: "atheists do you have any question about your maker-God". Knowing fully that an atheist does not accept the God construct. In any logical reasoning, the first step is to establish a premise. Give strong arguments why such premise must be true. The soundness of the conclusion drawn,depends on the soundness of the arguments put in defense of the premise. To expect the atheist to accept the possibility of God, is to firstly provide irrefutable proof why such construct is viable. the absence of such, Simply leads to never ending debates with no common platform to fall back to.

^^i believe it's logical. The fact being that: it's supposed that our maker made us with physical perceptibility,while He(our maker), is essentially of the spirit. If this is true, then i challenge that such a maker should be aware of the limitations He has placed on us; as such, whatever evidence the said creator provides as a yardstick for evaluating the possibility of His existence, must and should be of a "physical" nature. "What has been hardwired to perceive in the physical dimension, simply cannot fathom a spiritual essence through spirituality- by virtue of the fact that it is not of the spiritual nature".....FACT #1

JohnDoe77:
Please, i just got FIFA 12 about 4 days ago,  I'm a PES person but because of the hype, i decided to buy it instead of PES 12,  I have been playing the game since i bought it,  But the game is kinda difficult,  I don't like it,

I'm looking for someone with PES 12 to exchange with,

Anyone?

my brother!!! in fact, i understand how u feel. if u have a fifa 12, pls keep it- cos u may regret trading it away someday soon. i, like u, was a die hard PES fan for ages. i started our with fifa during the early 90's. but when i started playing winning eleven i completely forgot fifa. by 2008, friends told me that fifa8 is actually catching up with PES, i ignored them like i always did and never verified. by  2010 and 2011 eleven, same call was given to me- but i ignored. but when i saw the preview of fifa12 and that of PES 12, and heard the changes incorporated into both. i thought to myself, maybe it was just time to try fifa out. my word!!!!  i cannot even explain tou how hard and too complicated i thought fifa12 has taken the footie game to, but when i refused to give up, played over and over till it paid off. i learned the tactical defending which is in fact new to the fifa stage , and i can tell u, no pes will ever match fifa. the detailing given to certain aspects of the game is too awesome to just ignore. i have since stopped playing pes 12. be patient with fifa. its difficult to transition from PES to fifa , cos pes is damn easy. Different scenarios all the time in fifa.


PS: the impact engine added to fifa is just too cool. i tell u my friend- learn fifa, u will be amazed. peace!! am out

greetings to u , mr lagoshia. i know we really never had any acquaintance with each other, perhaps today will be the start. i am taking a pre-emptive measure to apologize to you ahead. sorry if what i am about to say enrages you, but it's not my style to be rude or arrogant. however, if it comes to defending the truth about God and or the Qur'an, it may appear as if that's the case.

Mr Lagoshia, neither you nor the source of your excerpt understand the Qur'an, just as the majority of the people who contribute on this section of the forum- therefore are in no position to tell others what the requisites are in understanding it. the body of your content above makes baseless statements and deductions from the Qur'an. I will by Gods' will rebut what u have up there, but not right now- maybe later on, i am somewhat engaged now. i would not put the rebuttal here, but will make it a fresh topic- God willing.

IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL

                                                                 

                                                                         WITCHCRAFT( SORCERY)

[2:102], whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.


Witchcraft or sorcery is an abominable act, those who put their trust in such  fail to realize that by indulging in it, they are simply implying that God can not protect them or is not sufficient for them as guide and master. While some indulge in this sinister act to seek some favor for themselves, others do it to cause harm to their fellow human beings. But  whatever the motive is, the fact remains that it is against God, and only leads us to our destruction- here on earth, and like the verse says above; in the hereafter, such people will have no share in God’s kingdom.

Witchcraft  is a complete waste of time and evil act, it can only harm or benefit those who put their trust in it. It is like every other system in the cosmos which is based on belief. Your  belief in witchcraft, necessitates that it does manifest an effect on you when ever it’s done against you. One thing that should have a bearing in our minds is that; no one can harm us against the will of God.  And also,  no one can take away the blessings God bestows on us, nor relief us of any adversity God wills on us, because; all power belongs to God.

[2:102] , " But the people used it in such evil schemes as the breaking up of marriages. They can never harm anyone AGAINST THE WILL OF GOD. They thus learn what hurts them, not what benefits them,

[10:107] If GOD touches you with a[b] hardship[/b], none can relieve it except He. And when He blesses you, no force can prevent His grace. He bestows it upon whomever He chooses from among His servants. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Going to “babalawo”(witch doctor),  getting “Mallams”(muslim priests) , or “Pastors”, to pray for your protection or change your fortune in some way -all fall under sorcery; they constitute setting up mediators besides God. Setting up mediators besides God constitute “idol worship”. And idol worship is the only un-forgivable sin against God if maintained till death. In other words, what you are saying is: God is not sufficient. When we need help, especially in the form of prayers, we all should turn to God directly and ask Him whatever favor we require.

[2:186]  When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided.

God has not preferred any human entity above another. Nor does God grant special reception for some and not others. God listens to us equally- if we only put our trust in Him. When you need help, ask God directly, and He will respond to you.


Why do people get Harmed by witchcraft?

Like i rightly pointed out earlier; that no one can harm you against the will of God(2:102). The question now remains; can it ever be the will of God that we get harmed by witchcraft?  The answer is a big “YES!!!”.  This is because you have believed that you can be harmed by it, therefore God wills it to. You put yourself in a perpetual state of fear, always thinking somebody out there does not wish you well and wants to see you go to ruin. When you have a bad dream, you automatically attribute it to some ill-will wishing person. As a result, you jump from one “witch doctor” or  so called “Mallams” or “Pastors” to another, while forgetting God; your creator. Instead of putting your trust in God, you choose to put it in the hands of men. So, therefore, God allows whatever your ill-will wishing person(s) wishes on you to befall you. Both the doer and the victim of such, get caught up in the illusion they have created for themselves. As a result, the victim experiences the effect of the doer’s intentions. Such is God’s unchangeable system(cause and effect). Whatever occupies your mind most of the time, becomes your reality. Therefore , constantly remember God.  Let God be what you think of most of the time, and He will surely manifest His blessings on you.

[7:205]  You shall remember your Lord within yourself, publicly, privately, and quietly, day and night; do not be unaware

These people who you put your trust in, cannot even help change their own fortune, how much more yours(a total stranger). They  will eventually die, so will you too; and all of you will go back to your creator , debased and defeated. All because you did not trust in God almighty, the one who never dies.

[25:58]  You shall put your trust in the One who is Alive - the One who never dies - and praise Him and glorify Him. He is fully Cognizant of His creatures' sins.



COMMON SENSE REASONING:

The questions that remains to be asked is that; can these “witch doctors”,  ”mallams” and “pastors”  really help us?  Can they  really change the wheel of fortune for us?  Well, it may appear as if they can and do sometimes. But in reality, these are just illusions that Satan uses to cloud our reasoning, cover our eyes, and makes us blind even though we have eyes that can see. Turns us deaf, even though we have ears that can hear. SATAN makes us believe these things are happening to us, or even helping us, while in reality, they only consume our souls. Subsequently, we get so absorbed by these things that it gets difficult for us to abandon, as they have become habits. Satan uses this ploy to take our minds away from God and His commandments, and a result of that; you fall out of God’s grace. God can no longer help you, cos you chose to disregard His warnings, and chose to plunge into disbelief.

The following are questions any intelligent person(s) needs to ask themselves when they are considering indulging in witchcraft:-

1) If the so called “witch doctors”, “mallams” or “pastors” have the power to turn peoples fortunes around, how come they do not do it for themselves?
2) How come they are poor and only benefit from what you give them, if they had any power to bring progress to others?
3) Why do they also get hurt or harmed, while they can prevent any harm to befall others?
4) If you have all the problems they tell you that you have, would you still be where you are today and still breathing air , and being under God’s grace?

The end of those who usually put their trust in “powers” they think these group of people possess, is usually a sad and miserable one. They waste their entire life seeking favors from people who they themselves are not invincible. They cannot help themselves, let alone help you. They require your favors to them for their own sustenance.

Only foolish people keep doing the same thing their entire life, which neither alleviates their sorrows, nor increases their fortune in a good way. If all these time you have trusted the “powers of men”, who have consistently failed you, or require some ultimate sacrifice from you in order to change your fortune. I think it’s time you get your senses back and return to your creator, God almighty. A word they say; is enough for the wise.


WHAT  IS  THE FATE  OF  THE UN-REPENTANT?

Only  one fate awaits those who do not repent to God , and reform their ways before the day when they will stand before Him. God has warned us in the scripture not to indulge in such trivial matter as witchcraft and the likes, but majority of people disregard God and follow their own vain wishes. The consequence of disregarding God, is to suffer debasement in the hereafter. As we have seen in verse(2:102) of the Qur'an, such people will have no place in God’s kingdom. The fate that awaits them is nothing but hell. Such is the just requital of those who do not use the perfect mind God has given us.

[29:49]  In fact, these revelations are clear in the chests of those who possess knowledge. Only the wicked will disregard our revelations.


[45:34]]  ,  "Today we forget you, just as you forgot the meeting of this day. Your abode is the hellfire, and you will have no helpers.



IS THERE ANY  HOPE?

Yes  indeed!!  There  is always hope for those who turn repentant towards God, and abandon their old ways of vanity. Since the Qur'an is mostly about good news to those who choose to believe God, and bad news to those who choose to disbelieve God- It gives hope to those who are willing to believe God and submit to Him totally.

[9:112] They are the repenters, the worshipers, the praisers, the meditators, the bowing and prostrating, the advocators of righteousness and forbidders of evil, and the keepers of GOD's laws. Give good news to such believers.

[5:9]  GOD promises those who believe and lead a righteous life forgiveness and a great recompense.

[31:22]  Those who submit completely to GOD, while leading a righteous life, have gotten hold of the strongest bond. For GOD is in full control of all things.



FINAL  NOTE:

Let  us not allow ourselves to get carried away by this worldly life. It is no more than illusion that God has created to test us, whoever gets distracted, would really be a loser- both in this life and the hereafter. The objective of this little treatise is not to condemn or judge anybody, but rather draw our attention back to God in the Qur'an. The Qur'an has all the answers. When all is said and done, the onus is on you to either reform or to continue in your old ways. I leave you to ponder on the following Quranic verses for a hopeful admonition.

[6:32]  The life of this world is no more than illusion and vanity, while the abode of the Hereafter is far better for the righteous. Do you not understand?!

[9:24]  Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than GOD and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until GOD brings His judgment." GOD does not guide the wicked people.

God does indeed wants us to be better off in this world and in the hereafter. But , we should take cognizance of the fact that; whatever God blesses us with, He would want us to use it to seek the hereafter and not this worthless life.

[28:77]  "Use the provisions bestowed upon you by GOD to seek the abode of the Hereafter, without neglecting your share in this world. Be charitable, as GOD has been charitable towards you. Do not keep on corrupting the earth. GOD does not love the corruptors."

The  devil only disguises his ploy in order to lure you into his trap. He causes you to commit un-Godly things, while promising you good things to come out of such. Don’t get deceived.

[4:120]  He promises them and entices them; what the devil promises is no more than an illusion.
[2:268]  The devil promises you poverty and commands you to commit evil, while GOD promises you forgiveness from Him and grace. GOD is Bounteous, Omniscient.

PEACE BE ON YOU!!!!.

IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL


@frosbe[/b]l:  i really commend your enthusiasm in trying to expose the false ISLAM(muhammedanism). in doing so, you don't only ease my duty as a follower of true ISLAM(submission/monotheism), but you also give me more impetus to keep at the battle at hand- Exposing the disbelievers/hyporcites/idol worshippers.



[b]@ OP(original poster) :


there are three ways to source the answer to the question u pose;

1) from the mouth of those who know nothing about the true ISLAM(submission); but try so hard to discredit it even before   making thorough investigations regarding the true ISLAM(submission). these group usually are very prejudice, and therefore   will try by all means to malign that which they know nothing of. They are hell-bent on this ploy of theirs.

2) from the mouth of those who "claim" to be following the quran, while in reality they are not. these group are the most ardent  opposers of the truth that is glaringly clear in the Quran. how do u know these peopel? well, walk up to any "muslim", ask  him/her to give u the profession of faith(shahaadah) in ISLAM. they will do so, but not without putting Muhammad's name next to GOD's.  while the Qruan gives the profession of faith in(3:18). You find only GOD's name mentioned there, with no human entity added to it.

Also, ask them to tell you how they do their ablution, if it is anything different than what u find it the Quran(5:6), then these are the people i am talking about.Very easy!!!

3) from the mouth of those who without doubt, completely acknowledge that whatever is in the Quran is from the Creator of the  heavens and the earth, therefore, have no choice in following it's commandments.if u want to know such people, then visit:

www.submission.org or www.majidtucson.org or www.miralceof19.org



The answer:

Only a single verse of the Quran is sufficient to prove to any non-prejudice person that the Quran never endorsed the killing of any soul unjustly. In fact, it even preaches resorting to pardon whenever applicable, regardless of the severity of crime commited even by a criminal.

The QUranic truth:

     The Major Commandments

[6:151]  Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

As can be seen from the verse above the plain Quranic truth regarding Killing any soul unjustly. However, even with this, there are those who qoute verses of the Quran, and say that these verses incites Killing and hatred. Is this possible? Since the vers above(6:151) is so clear; it is then safe to make  two assumption on why these people(group 1 above) still claim that Quran preaches killing.

1) It's either they do not study the Quran carefully to understand it, as a consequence they make false assertions that are  non existent, or

2) they deliberately wish to cover the truth, by simply mis-quoting the Quran out of context and deceive the unwary observer.


which ever the case is, you be the judge. The verse above(6:151) should set precedence to your making your conclusion.

I will even augment it with a couple more verses, u then make your conclusion as u wish. I have no doubt in my mind that u will surely come to know, that these are lies and have nothing to do with the Quran.


A few more proofs:

Grossness of Murder

[17:33]  You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.


[5:32] -, anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people, -


And there are more where that came from. It's left for u to be the judge.


I challenge anybody,to prove contrary to the above Quranic truth, using the Quran alone and not the Criminal ISLAMIC sources(Hadiths, Qruanic exegesis by corrupt Mullas etc).



Frosbel: this challenge is directed towards u mostly. I want u to show me from the Quran, verse by verse analysis(not copy paste) where it ever preached hatred towards christians, jews or even justifies the killing of any soul unjustly. I will then show u that u never truly read the Quran yourself. Before u accept such a challenge, i want u to firsly visit the websites i mentiond above. They may help u in proving me wrong.



"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect."
Bible, 1 Peter 3:15

GOD IS DOING EVERYTHING!!!!!!

uplawal:
asalamu alaykum all,missed you all , @ola pluto,but there are some narrations of the hadiths that said prophet wrote letters,so he cant be unlettered,what the prophet was is "someone that does not have knowledge of previous books before quran came"

@uplawal:
salaam to u. hope u and your family is doing great.    You know; i saw him put such an insult as written above in bold, but i decided to ignore him and just worry about my own neck. GOD willing, because of you and others like u, i will open a thread, and i will prove from the quran, that the prophet was never and illiterate.both using common sense and from the quran.

Don't blame them for what they utter, if people don't deviate from the Quran as prophesied, then it would render the prophesy nil. The only cure to ignorance is true knowledge.

All the messengers of GOD are people with incomparable Knowledge and wisdom. just study the Quran(not read like a parrot) closely, u would understand what i mean.

But like i said, i would open i thread just for that: to expose the hypocrites and those who do not really trust GOD.

It is not by saying we are "muslims". one can be a muslim and still have doubt regarding GOD. One should strive to be a "Believer" instead. see the example from quran.



     Muslim  vs  Mu'men

[49:14]  The Arabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey GOD and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

As u can see, there is a difference between "muslim" and "mu'meen". muslim may or may not have reached that unshakable conviction that GOD is running everything. however, a "mu'meen" has no iota of doubt whatsoever regarding GOD's absolute authority.


UPLAWAL: see below

[5:105]  O you who believe, you should worry only about your own necks. If the others go astray, they cannot hurt you, as long as you are guided. To GOD is your ultimate destiny, all of you, then He will inform you of everything you had done.

So my dear Sister; just keep trusting GOD, he suffices u.


I will send u a Book via your email. u will love it, and u will weep for mankind. It is a compilation of virtually all the Miracles(signs) in the quran. From the "Bigbang" to "concept of time dilation" to the prophesies about "pharoah", "the Roman victory" and finally the crowning miracle - "the miracle of 19".

In spite of this; mankind refused to acknowledge GOD's omnipotence and omniscience. SHAME!!!

The GOD who revealed such a scripture through muhammad will say to the people perform ablution this way(5:6); they refused, but BUKHARY comes from no where and says muhammad says do it this way instead, and they believed. This is just ablution, they have disregard the scripture in its entirety just like prophesied in(25:30). SHAME!!!



[6:4]  No matter what kind of proof comes to them from their Lord, they turn away from it, in aversion.

[10:97]  No matter what kind of[b] proof[/b] you show them, (they cannot believe), until they see the painful retribution.


SALAAM SISTER.

PRAISE BE TO GOD

@sweetnecter


Believe me you have earned my respect. just by above, i know you sincerely seek the truth.

I have always adored how you(sweetnecter), vedaxcool and LAGOSHIA , make it your lot to defend what you
profess as belief. If only you channeled that energy into unraveling the truth; then preach that truth, you'll come to see how people will come in throngs ready to accept the ISLAM devoid of falsehood and illogicalities.
You are just about the only bold person willing to at least verify. Congrautalions

I will not mail it to you, i will simply give you the link. I want other people to verify things for themselves and also benefit from it.

however, i have a gazillion things to share with  you, and GOD willing this is a start. i will mail what i can to you, and you don't necessarily have to agree. we'll be sharing ideas via you mail. thanks and GOD BLESS



Here is the link: www.submission.org/#/d/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

you may take your time to peruse the website.

Just know this; no one can alter your mind, unless u let them. you are an adult, i cannot possibly manipulate your mind.


[39:18]  They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.


SALAAM!!!

ola_pluto:
See I was willing to learn about your 19inism religion until I read and saw in your video that the Quran is adulterated. You follow the Quran, but removed verses from it because it did not conform with Dr Khalifa's mathematical merry-go-round. Subhannallah!. And you expect to be taken serious? I personally feel you are not talking about Islam, rather, you are part of a movement founded by Dr Khalifa. You like the muslim Quran, but do not agree with somethings in it. In that case, ' Lakum deenukum waliya deeni'. Case closed.

"Anyone who closes the door to reason and logic,does so only to his own peril"


i concede; you are the victor. but last words from me.


Questions:

1) what caused the battle between the muslims right after the death of the prophet;
with ALI and his supporters on one side, and the people against him on one side?

A 50 year war that culminated into the famous "KARBALA", where all the prophets family where killed, and those of ALI. what led to it?


2) why was the Quran(mushaf) that was with the prophets wife "maimunah" burnt during the reign of KHALIF "marwan bin ahkam"?

this is the Quran that was written when the prophet was alive, on leaf patchments.
why? surely, it would have been an honor to have such a QURAN with us today, but it was destroyed, why?




possible answers(guesses) to 1 above:


>>> ALI wanted to forcibly install himself as the successor after the prophets death(SUNNI VERSION)
>>> the prophet had said that ALI should be his successor after his death, but he was denied(SHI'A VERSION)

>>> Whatever triggered such a war that lasted about 50 years must have been beyond the above two reasons(my VERSION).

Why my reason?

surely, these group of people, who stood with the prophet when he was persecuted and driven out of mecca;
fought alongside him, acheived different feats during his prophetic life together, could not have possibly resorted to war with each other because of a mere succession crap story. their souls had grown beyond that.
whatever ALI fought for, and died for, must have been for higher CAUSE. But, the official story, as you would expect is what is recorded by the two above.


Possible answers to 2 above:

>>>it was burnt because: as usual, crappy, silly reasons- go on and read islamic history(their version)
>>>it was burnt because there was fear. fear of what? of it triggering another war(my VERSION); but why?
well you wouldn't know until you begin to trust GOD ALMIGHTY.


GOD has promised to preserve and Protect the Quran from corruption right?
>>do you think GOD will come down physically to that?

>>Go on to IRAK and IRAN, peruse round the archives; get different Quran compilations, then you would come to know what i am
talking about.

some Qurans have the following word "SALAAT" spelt differently. some use(saad laam alif ha), while the correct spelling
should be(saad laam waw alif ha). Who made these mistakes? are you saying GOD failed in carrying out his promise?


you do not know GOD, neither are you willing to know HIM and his system.

I cannot guide anyone, only GOD guides, but he guides only those who seek HIS guidance.


I wish the MODERATORS weren't biased. i would have taken my time, day by day, so we can have some common understanding by education ourselves ; Reading the QURAN together as well as history.

But that is only wishful thinking ain't it?

SALAAM!!!!



[74:30] Over it is nineteen.
[74:31] We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

[74:32] Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.
[74:33] And the night as it passes.
[74:34] And the morning as it shines.
[74:35] This is one of the great miracles.

MODERATORS!!!!! pls whats it again

pls unblock the following thread: Salaat FROM QURAN

THNKS!!

@Sweetnecter

The MODERATOR and their evil schemes are at it again.

the thread has been locked. i could not post no longer. My post deleted.
while they can tolerate people like "frosbel" who slander the religion. they cannot stand me. Ask yourself why that is?



[3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did GOD, and GOD is the best schemer.

[10:62] Absolutely, GOD's allies have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

Sweetnecta:
Your argument is da'if, until you can prove from Quran.

I really appreciate your dogged enthusiasm in trying to defend what u believe.

what u stated above is what i call the proper application of(17:36). until i prove it to you, you should not accept. I respect such a statement and that's what i like. To prove; surely, that's what am gonna do. just give me some 20 to 30 mins, trying to compile my argument in a presentable manner. Make sure you are prepared too.

Sweetnecta:
@Usisky; « #8 on: Today at 11:14:22 AM »according to you, Quran only, without any explanation is sufficient.
Hadith and Sunnah are the explanations of Quran. how do we know,

[12:111] There is, in their stories , instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it, a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and mercy to any such as believe. [yusuf Ali]

[17:89] And verity We have displayed for mankind in this Qur’an all kids or similitudes, but most of mankind refuse aught save disbelief. [marmaduke pikhtall]

[7:52] We have given them a[b] scripture that is fully detailed[/b], with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

i want u to also have to prove to me Salaat from AHADITH. all my arguments will stem from the Quran.
But i will by GOD's mercy also show u some AHADITH(sahih) concerning salaat.

what i will want u to answer are as follows:

1)show me from AHADITH how to perform all the Slaats
2)the units of all the Salaats from AHADITHS(sahih  or da'if)
3) what to say during all the salaats from AHADITH.


this is sufficient for my argument. Pls respond. do we go over now and start, or do u need some time?

it appears u are online now. can we proceed or at a later time?

[6:4] No matter what[b] kind of proof[/b] comes to them from their Lord, they turn away from it, in aversion.

[7:132] They said, "No matter what[b] kind of sign you show us[/b], to dupe us with your magic, we will not believe."

[10:97] No matter what kind of proof you show them, (they cannot believe), until they see the painful retribution.

[12:103] Most people, no matter what you do, will not believe.

[36:46] No matter what kind of proof is given to them[b] from their Lord[/b], they[b] consistently[/b] disregard it.



Anybody behind the wire(computer+keyboard) can say whatever they wish. Be it crap, lies, glad tidings,whatever.
it doesn't really matter.that's the privilege technology has given us and i humbly accept it.


KHALIFA is dead, MUHAMMAD is dead and so are all the other PATRIARCHS of faith. how can they possibly guide me or giude you when they are dead?

The only living messenger(witness) to Muhammads' messengership is the message he brought and preached- the QURAN.

To believe in Muhammads' messengership, and follow his teachings, is to follow the Quran he brought.

Search through all the threads i have ever commented on, and show where i ever said anything that's outside of the QURAN. Also, tell me how many times i ever mentioned Rashad Khalifa, except that someone brings it up?

I follow the Religion of Abraham and also follow the Message of the LAST prophet(muahammad).i.e QURAN

Please check all the verses i ever quoted; i want u to disprove any argument i ever presented in that respect.

Let me draw an analogy between KHALIFA and the story of Moses from the verse below.

[40:28] A believing man among Pharaoh's people, who was concealing his belief, said, "How can you kill a man just for saying, `My Lord is GOD,' and he has shown you clear proofs from your Lord? If he is a liar, that is his problem, and[b] if he is truthfu[/b]l, you benefit from his promises. Surely, GOD does not guide any transgressor, liar.


how can u resent a man, simply for saying "follow the message of Muhammad" and reject the lies that's been perpetuated in his name? Even after overwhelming proofs? but u are averse to them, so it does not matter at all.

If he(Khalifa) was[b] lying[/b], that's to his own loss. but what if he was saying the truth? of course u wouldn't know if he was saying the truth unless u investigate it, right? investigate! investigate! investigate(17:36, 39:18)


I believe in the message of Muhammad when he told me to believe that the Quran is complete and fully detailed and shall be the only source.

so i will open the thread and lets see who's really following muhammad and who are the real "KAFEERS".

lets not resort to war of words. i will open up the thread GOD willing. prepare well enough; Read your Quran as well as your hadith, i do not want u to end up being embarrassed.


[7:186] Whomever GOD commits to straying, there is no way for anyone to guide him. He leaves them in their sins, blundering.


SALAAM!!!!

[2:170]  When they are[b] told[/b], "Follow[b] what GOD has revealed herein[/b]," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?



Firstly, i do apologize for derailing your thread- sincerely.

it's just that i believe promoting the idolization of Humans is against the tenets of the true ISLAM(submission to GOD alone)

I do not wish for trouble, i am only trying to support the prophet and to return ISLAM to its pristine purity.


There two types of Arguments:

1) a baseless argument;one whose motive is to satisfy ones ego. such are the arguments that stir up rancor and hate amongst people.

2)an Enlightening argument; one whose impetus is to[b] Educate[/b]. such argument promote understanding and friendship.

I invite u to an argument concerning the salat(contact prayer) hajj(tawaf) issue you have raised. Also, i opt to argue with u in the light of the second type of argument mentioned above.

I will open up a thread. we will discuss it there.


You mentioned Khalifa. firstly, i know u know nothing about this individual except through hearsay. Disprove me if u can.

If "sweetnecter" were to come to me- reminding me that the Quran forbids idol worship. just because it's from the mouth of
"sweetnecte[/b]r", does that mean i should not take heed. this is exactly what u allude to whenever u mention [b]khalifa to support your argument.

Whatever the messenger gives u, u shall accept it. YES INDEED!!!
did u take a look at the 11 points i put forth above? u did not care right?
Well, the messenger gave u all of that, why did u not take it? Oh! i forgot, cos it's coming from "usisky" a follower of[b] Khalifa[/b].


I have no doubt in my mind that u also are striving hard to make it to GOD's kingdom. But at dsame time we should never close our minds to reason. The quran teaches us not accept any information, until we are able to verify it for ourselves(17:36). the question is; how many of us actually carry out this rule.

For every effect, there is a cause(with the exception of the original source of all causes- GOD).

what is the cause of "usisky", Khalifa and the likes believing what they believe?

until u properly apply(17:36), u would not have done justice to yourself and your creator.

I say PEACE UNTO U.



[17:36]  You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Respect for the Word of God:

[6:68]  If you see those who mock our revelations, you shall avoid them until they delve into another subject. If the devil causes you to forget, then, as soon as you remember, do not sit with such evil people.

The Consequence of your Decision:

[6:111] Even if we sent down the angels to them; even if the dead spoke to them; even if we summoned every miracle before them; they[b] cannot believe unless GOD wills it[/b]. Indeed, most of them are ignorant.


@ola_plato & EDZY

answer my questions below:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-638130.0.html

Sweetnecta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNF8AWiytM&feature=related

[3:191]  They[b] remember GOD[/b] while standing, sitting, and on their sides, and they reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth,

[76:25]  And[b] commemorate[/b] the name of your Lord day and night.

[3:41] ,  Commemorate your Lord frequently; and meditate night and day."

[8:45] ,  and commemorate GOD frequently, that you may succeed.

[73:8]  You shall commemorate the[b] name of your Lord[/b], to come ever closer and closer to Him.

[74:7]  Steadfastly commemorate your Lord.



O children of adam, what has gone wrong with you people? 
while you should be striving to make your religion[b] GOD-centered[/b], you completely negate that by making it Muhammad-centered.

The devil knows you love idolatry; and he knows shirk(idol worship) is the only unforgivable sin if maintained till death(4:116).

the devil has enticed you before, by fabricating lies(hadith and sunna) falsely attributed to the prophet just to trap you. unfortunately, you all fell for it.


What's the video got to do worship of GOD ALONE? how does it help in remembering your GOD frequently?

I can not understand how you people believe such ridiculous things as this; while the prophet said the following in the Quran and you disbelieved him:


1) O you how believe; u shall perform ablution this way4 steps 5:6)- but u disbelieved and followed "Bukhari"(SATAN's accomplices)

2)u shall recite all your contact prayer(salat) in a moderate tone(17:110)- u disbelieve and followed "Muslim"(SATAN's HELPERS)

3)u shall recite your attestation of faith(shadaat) as this(3:18) - u disbelieved and followed "Dawood"(SATAN's FRIENDS)

4)u shall devote the religion absolutely to GOD alone(39:3)
5)u shall devote the worship to GOD ALONE(40:14),no matter what the disbelievers say. but u did not listen.
6)u shall never mention any name near GOD's especially in the MASJIDs(72:18) u refused to listen.

7)menstruating women must pray to their GOD, only intercourse is forbidden(2:222). because as far as belief is concerned men and women are equal(4:25). but u did not listen, instead u listened to Bukhari and the likes.

only four meats are forbidden(6:145, 16:115). u did not listen, but u listen to some outrageous dietary prohibitions given by the FABRICATORS(HADITH writers)

9)that the quran shall be your only source(6:114-115), u refused to accept. but believed Bukahri instead
10)that the quran has everything as far as salvation is concerned(6:38), u disbelieved.
11)that GOD does not suffer from lack of words(18:109), u did not agree obviosly.

the list is endless.


will the prophet, who is suppose to serve as an[b] example to us[/b], say one thing in the Quran and goes on and[b] does another[/b]?  is that possible? certainly not.

you people should ask yourself this:

the prophesy in(25:30), is it the few like me who are calling you back to the truth of quran that the prophet will complain to GOD that we have abadoned the Quran?
or the vast majority(millions) of you, holding on to traditions of your fathers without knowledge?

we shall find out!!!!


The Prophets and the Saints Are Dead:

[25:58]  You shall put your trust in[b] the One who is Alive[/b] - the One who never dies - and praise Him and glorify Him. He is fully Cognizant of His creatures' sins.




     Hadith & Sunna:
     Fabrications by the Prophet's Enemies

[6:112]  We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other[b] fancy [/b]words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

[6:113]  This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter[b] listen to such fabrications[/b], and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.

Please fellow nairalanders- Nigerians.

These people who you know today as muslims, aren't really muslims.
They may be your neighbors, your friends, your office colleagues or whatever.

Have you observed that non of them have outrightly condemned such a heinous crime against a
fellow human being? yes! , they won't do that, cos they are not muslims.


HISTORY:
some two centuries(250 years) after the death of the prophet muhammad, some group of people(criminals) hijacked islam(submission to GOD alone).

these criminals started compling some stories(Hadith and sunna) about things they alleged the prophet said and did during his life time.

today,the so called muslims follow these concocted lies instead of the word(Quran) they know for certain
came from the prophet muhammad. unfortunately,the muslims have been duped to following these
sources instead of the quran.it is in these sources where you find teachings of hate and rancor toward your fellow human being.

Today, those following these false islam have dominated. the few following the true teachings are few, hence you may never
have come in contact with them. Immagine me being the only of such persons here on NL. yes, thats how bad it is.

On behalf of the true muslims(submitters to GOD alone); i condemn such an act and similar as barbaric and inhuman.


The Quran never says u shall "cut-off" the thievs hand. it says "cut", as in "mark".
even in english, when u say i "cut" my hand with a knife, it's quite different from i "cut-off" my hand with a knife.
the latter refers literarily to severing ones hand.


Review the Proof from our website :
http://www.submission.org/#/d/App37.html

Also, to find out the true teachings of ISLAM(submission to GOD alone) and the  Solid scientific, irrefutable proofs concerning Quran visit:


www.quranmiracles.com
www.submission.org
www.masjidtucson.org
www.miracleof19.org

olawalebab:
Amin

PEACE BE UPON YOU BROTHER.

did u watch the video. if yes, then what did u think of it?

PEACE!!!

IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL

[2:148]  Each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, GOD will summon you all. GOD is Omnipotent.

@ola_pluto

i have no doubt in my mind that you're one of those who sincerely seek righteousness. i believe that's why you're just about the only person who has commented on the subject, and i do believe you must have atleast read through what i presented. I pray GOD gives you the wisdom and open mind to grasp the Qur'anic proofs i have and will keep presenting.

ola_pluto:
Very thoughtful presentation by Usisky. I dont think any Muslim(a) should ever have to be torn between the Quran and the Hadiths. If ever a situation arises, then the Quran should be the only source and standard. However, what I think is that some verses in the Quran can be intellectually challenging to anyone (except Mohammed(SAW)). Hence, the reason we should take it as it is.

At the bold section above.

Firstly, this is your own personal opinion or what you have been made to believe. well lets look at the ultimate reference again, and see what muhammad himself said about this.

[3:7]  He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.


Brother, lets look at the key points in the above stated verse.

1) Qur'an contains "straight forward verses" and "allegorical ones"

2) the straight forward ones are the essence of the message e.g( All your contact prayer(salaat) must be said in a moderated tone-  17:110). Now how come the muslims disregard such an important commandment. Surely, it is very straight forward. maybe they never saw it, or perhaps it was abrogated(GOD forbid).with today's muslims, u never know.

3) non knows the meaning of the allegorical ones but GOD and those well founded in knowledge

it is noteworthy that point3 did not say only GOD and muhammad knows their meaning. but specifically those vast in that particular subject matter. Why?
the truth is virtually the whole verses of the Qur'an are straight forward, those that aren't , are those we get better understanding of as we progressively develop intellectually and become better aware of the world around us. This is quite true in view of the fact that the quran is replete with such astonishing scientific and historical phenomenon that could not have been know to the people of the time of the prophet; and certainly not the prophet as well.

GOD is the one who grants us the understanding of the Qur'an as He deems it apropriate. He is the teacher of Qur'an and no one else. He grants whom ever He wills such a blessing. But in order to understand the quran, u need to firstly believe GOD in HIS assertions that the quran is complete and fully detailed and shall be the only source of guidance. Also, u need to be sincere towards GOD.

[55:1]  The Most Gracious.
[55:2]  Teacher of the Quran.

ola_pluto:
Haven said the above, I do not think we can practice Islam without the hadiths. I will like to ask Usisky how he prays. If he prays according to the way Mohammed SAW prays, then where does he get that principle from? Quran or Hadith?

At the highlighted portions.
Firstly, i am not gonna stomp you with a harsh reply, cos i know u are unaware and that's why you ask these questions. These are the commonest questions i get asked by those who have not reached complete certainty about the Qur'an and what function it is meant to serve in their lives.

To answer your questions, i will use a subtle "trick" on you. it is called reversal of roles. i wil be asking the questions instead.if u are able to answer them; then, i will give u a detailed reply.

Questions:
1)do u believe GOD when HE says the quran is complete(6:115)?
2)do u believe GOD when HE says the quran is fully detailed(mufasallah)-6:114?
3)do u believe GOD when HE says nothing has been left out of the Qur'an(6:38)?
4)what is islam?
5)when did islam start?
6)when did salaat start?
7)show me a detailed description of the salaats from Ahadith?
when did the hadith come into existence?
9)what is Hadith and what does it teach you?

If u believe the first three questions, then the others are really irrelevant, cos the answers are right before u. u just have been averse to it cos your mind has been clouded with several myths. Only GOD can lift off such a veil from ones mind, if u let HIM.

Please brother, keep an open mind. Do u best, i will not ridicule what ever u have to offer. just say something. u may even quote "hadiths"  , "Tafsirs"  etc, i don't mind. I will stand by GOD, and HE will never fail HIS true servants. i will be waiting.

PEACE!!!


Study the Quran:

[47:24]  Why do they not study the Quran carefully? Do they have[b] locks[/b] on their[b] minds[/b]?
[47:25]  Surely, those who slide back, after the[b] guidance has been manifested[/b] to them, the devil has enticed them and led them on.