₦airaland Forum

@ Candour bro I agree with you. This messages just appeal to our senses. There's a natural craving man has for dominion, riches and comfort.
I remember I was at a conference last year, where the pastor said he believes one of the reasons why Jesus hasn't come is because the wealth of gentiles must come to us (christians) and I was totally amazed. Years back I will probably have believed it but thank God for the truth in word.
I also preached this message years back; in the last days christians were going to be very wealthy and I rememba even saying things like the next steve jobs wd be a christian and all my emphasis was just on self. The truth is the bible is clear enough about the last days and all its happenings. Most of dis messages just appeal to our cravings.

@nimediator thanks bro
@ Jo thanks
the kenyon book- what happened from the cross to the throne, then I think "identification" too.
Not sure of the Hagin book, but I still have some of his books on my system, would check them out and get back to you.
The teaching is very popular in WOF circles cause I had heard quite a number of preachers say it. Anyways I believe revelational knowledge is progressive and I Thank God for the truth.

@jo, I totally agree with you that Jesus didn't suffer in hell, but rather was victorious from the cross. Colossians 2:15 makes this clear that he spoilt principalities and powers (made a public show of them) triumphing over them ON tHE CROSS.

I first saw the "suffering in hell teaching" in some materials by kenyon and I think hagin ( this is not to discredit anyone) some years back and I believed it and even preached it.
The teaching was based on the fact that Jesus became sin and since He became sin, he had to go to hell to suffer.
But after doing a study I realised Jesus was victorious from the cross, paying the debt in full. There was no need to suffer he went in victorious.

I agree with Bidam to a certain extent about 2cor 8:9

Now this had made us ask Titus, who has already done so much among you, to complete his task by arranging for you too to share in this work of generosity. Already you are well to the fore in every good quality—you have faith, you can express that faith in words; you have knowledge, enthusiasm and your love for us. Could you not add generosity to your virtues? I don’t want you to read this as an order. It is only my suggestion, prompted by what I have seen in others of eagerness to help, and here is a way to prove the reality of your love. Do you remember the generosity of Jesus Christ, the Lord of us all? He was rich beyond our telling, yet he became poor for your sakes so that his poverty might make you rich.( JB Phillips)

It was talking about Jesus generosity and giving it as an example. I think a good parallel scripture will be phillipians 2. It seems to me that 2cor. 8:9 Is figurative.

At Jo, thanks Bro


4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows[a] that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, a punishment for his own sins!

5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.

6 All of us, like sheep, have strayed away. We have left God’s paths to follow our own. Yet the Lord laid on him
the sins of us all.

I used to be of the same opinion that it was referring to physical healing, but right now I don't think so, I'm still doing my study on it though.

If you look thru the verses, it seems to follow same line of thought. The verses seem to have the same undertone, which is sin. In 1 pet 2:24 its the same, its like the writers were referring to healing not necessarily in the physical sense, but more like "spiritual" ( for lack of a better word) healing. The healing looks figurative.

Ofcourse this isn't to say that healing and health isn't part of the package like you rightly said. I believe its Gods will for us to live in health and be well. Jesus is the same yesteday today and forever; He did it then, he will do it now.
But I'm not so sure this was referring to physical healing, I still stand to be corrected though.

@ image 123 guess ur right

@ candour thanks, great stuff bro

Back then I was made to believe that the manifestations on earth was goin to happen before the rapture. Manifesting at the workplace, manifesting in ur neighbourhood, manifesting with wealth n all that (that's what I meant by future manifestations on earth) until I read the scripture properly about 2years ago and realized it was talking about redemption from our vile bodies (the rapture and the reign on earth).

@ Candour I totally agree with u n bro Goshen. Salvation is a free gift, its not smthn u work for. Tryin to work ur way in just rubbishes the revelations given in the epistles. Salvation is a gift received by faith eph.2:8-9.

"For the gospel reveals how God puts people right with himself: it is through faith from beginning to the end" Romans1:17 (GNB)

We can't impress God by our works(its a total waste of time) our right standing before Him is in christ.roman 5:1-3
Christ sacrifice once and for all has reconciled us to God and gives us right standing before Him, nothing can be added to what Jesus did.

I'm still wondering the reason behind restitution. Cause I think its a law and paul tells us that tryn to justify urself by d law makes you fall from grace.

As a young christian I remember having favorite preachers. For quite a number of years the interpretation I gave to certain scriptures was the same my "Favorite preachers" gave to them. Back then whatever my "favorite preachers" said was right and at some point I even preached whatever they said word for word (without referring back to the Word).

As the years passed by I started questioning some of these interpretations and I Iearnt to wait on the Holy spirit to reveal the right interpretations. I'm still doing study around some of these questions though but I just thot to share them.

I believe revelational knowledge is progressive and I think its very important for believers to always check the word for themselves regardless (doesn't matter who said it).

I didn't put this up to discredit anyone or ministry, this is js an avenue for a honest discussion, where we can all learn the truth.

These are some of the questions I asked myself

Isaiah 53:4-5 and 1pet. 2:24 really talking about physical healing?

Did Jesus have to suffer in hell or was the work finished at the cross?

What are the blessings of Abraham referred to in Gal. 3:13-14?

Is 2Corinthians 8:9 talking about physical riches or something else?

Is Romans 8:19-24 talking about some future manifestations of saints on earth or the rapture?

What does Romans 8:32 rily mean: "He that spared not his son....also give us all things"

Mark 11:23, will a believer truly have whatever he says?

Thanks

I have a sincere question to ask candour,frosbel,stryklimi n everyoda person who has placed a post on this thread.

what's the reason behind restitution?
Is it to justify us before God or to justify us before man?

I think the answer to ds question would point us in the right direction.

frosbel: You should be following Christ and not Kenneth Hagin.

I also read tons of Kenneth Hagins books but was a little puzzled when he seemed to always have some direct and often contact with JESUS. This put him on a pedestal above the others, which drew men to him with the expectation that they will be healed because of his special anointing.

This is false, the anointing resides in every Christian who is truly led of Christ, we do not need to go to a guru who has seen some extraordinary visions and powers to get healed or delivered .

People who claim some special status in the body are DANGEROUS.

We should also be very concerned when certain MEN are esteemed very highly by other MEN, Jesus was not esteemed , he was rejected.

"And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God." - Luke 16:15


Let's see the SPECIAL STATUS the apostles received.

"when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world." - 1 Corinthians 4:13

I can only warn you from experience. Shaking violently , barking like dogs, crawling on all fours and claiming some special divine revelation is not of GOD.


What we need is the WORD of GOD , Prayer , a reliable fellowship and dedication to the will and work of GOD.

Bro frosbel I seriously doubt if you read hagins materials and if u did u probably read wt a preconceived mindset (no insult intended).

Hagin was a man who never boasted about his visions, infact I still av a message on my phone presently (Our inheritance) where he narrated his experience with Jesus and made it clear that he didn't receive it cause he was any better than anyman.
One thing I respected and learnt from him was his honesty, Hagin would tell you that it didn't matter the MOG dat said a thing, if the MOGs word didn't line up wt Gods word then that thing is not true. From His materials he taught people to put the word first, not teachings or visions of men but the word. Hagin would always ask for a scripture and verse n he won't stop at that he would also ask for two or three witnesses (that is 2 or 3 scriptures to back ur claim)

About the healing part that's also not true this was a man who taught extensively on receivin divine healing personally. He wrote countless books on healing to make believers know healing was deirs without avin to go for miracle services or any MOG. He taught men to receive their healings in their homes without avin to go for crusades; this was because he got healed as a little boy on his deathbed by simply putting his faith in the word (no MOG laid hands on him).

Most of his teachings were based on the new creation realities; believers knowing their rights in christ. He preached extensively about our inheritance in Christ focusing more on the new testament.
I know these things cause at some point in my life I followed Hagin to the letter, now I know better anyways (I don't follow men I follow Jesus n I av learnt wait on the Holy spirit to grant me revelational knowedge when studying)
However I still respect the ministry, not like all he did was 100percent accurate but he was a blessing to many including me. Pls don't tk that out of context, cause ur writings have also blessed me, but it doesn't mean I have made u my God n I'm now following u.
Blessed just means blessed. I think the problem is this: when we say we were blessed by a ministry, you interprete it to mean we are following the MOG blindly which is not true. There is only one person I follow and dats Jesus

Bidam: ok ma..i hear u..but you have already made up ur mind about hagin's ministry even before watching the video..probably based on what you heard people say about him i guess..frosbel is a member of RCCG in the UK..Adeboye believes in Hagin's ministry...he talks about him, i sometimes listen to his teachings..i think he even invites Hagin(the son) to Nigeria..they are partners in ministry..u can ask frosbel to verify this truth.

You are right, quite a number of ministers are actually connected to Rhema (Hagins ministry) and back then (before he went to be with the Lord) they used to go to Tulsa for his meetings. I know Pastor Adeboye has some connection with them especially Rhema Nigeria.

@candour thank you sir, lookin forward to a discussion with you sometime

@ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
Knowledge truly puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.(1cor 8:3).
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ plappyville, bro its absolutely ridiculous to condemn a ministry based on just one video.

@ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ Ezme
I rily. Don't av a problem with bro frosbel uploading the video afterall he didn't make it, but I have a big. Problem with his approach.
Its ok to upload the video and put it side by side with the word to show us where they got it wrong, but to call the people names(fake charlatans)like he did n discredit their ministries is just plain wrong.

I have been blessed at one point or the other by some of this ministries(Hagin,Copeland,Hinn) but in recent time I started questioning quite a number of their teachings putting them side by side with d word n I found out some weren't accurate and some others were. Now I didn't throw away the baby with the bathwater by discrediting this ministries, I just took the truth and left out the rest.
Personally I don't believe in following any MOG blindly, I believe in following the word. MOGs r human, they make mistakes too...

In Nigeria, there quite a number of practices and doctrines in churches today that don't line up with the word yet it still doesn't mean the preachers are charlatans and scammers. Calling them names would be going to far.

I watched the full video again and honestly my spirit didn't agree with a number of things, but I won't discredit this ministries, I don't think its in my place to do that, rather I would point out wats wrong by putting it side by side with the word. Now, I have not done a personal study on manifestations yet so I would rather stay mute.

You gave a good list of qualificatn of false shepherds but I don't think this video gives enough proof that any of this preachers are false.

@true2god ur on point, frosbel isn't straightforward wt hs beliefs. As far as am concerned he didn't put up ds post to edify, he put it up to mock n cause division.

Nice post Bro Jo

I recently read a post put up by Bro Goshen ( wrong practices and doctrines in churches todaay) n I was rily blessed by it. Now he didn't put the names of churches or preachers, neither did he attack a particular set of pple, he just pointed each doctrine out puttn it side by side with the word.
Now that's ow to put up a post for edificatn n nt mockery

I think Bro frosbel is just out to cause division. This post doesn't edify in anyway.
Remember knowledge puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.
I know he probably has grown in revelational knowledge, but attacking these pple is js wrong. its js plain wrong to attack an M0Gs personality n "calling". If u think a doctrine doesn't line up wt d word point it out without attckn d person.
I might not agree with all they preach based on the revelational knowledge I have now but I believe this men (Hagin, Copeland) were called of God, I choose to respect that. I was blessed at one point or d oda by deir ministries.

I agree wt Jo n Bidam, ds is js mockery and nothin else.

Bro frosbel if at some point you have ever misinterpreted scriptures, then you are not different from these people (Hagin, copeland et al), the only difference is a mic and a large congregation.
And congrats bro you are also a fake charlattan and scammer

My point: its alright to attack the wrong practices and doctrines but dont attack the personality because some of this people started on a good note but sadly got into error.

Calling them charlatans is going to far, this are people who started out well but ran into error cause they probably didn't compare scripture with scripture. This pple were still anointed but ran into excesses.
I am not disputing that there are no false prophets(charlatans) out there, these are the last days; so there are many around. But there's a difference between a false prophet and a preacher who runs into excess cause he misinterpreted scripture. That's why paul had to tell timothy: 1timothy 4:16

Keep a critical eye both upon your own life and on the teaching you give, and if you continue to follow the line I have indicated you will not only save your own soul but the souls of many of your hearers as well. (JB Phillips)

Saying we have never misinterpreted scripture at one point or the other would be a dishonest claim.
And at those points where we did, the only difference between us and them would have been a mic and a congregation.
Also, if at some point bro frosbel you were blessed by any of this ministries (Hagin, copeland et al) then attacking deir personalities n not the doctrine and practice is js very wrong.

@ frosbel. Bro I think u shd read my post again o. Cause I neva said I'm worshippin dem, my worship goes to God(n only Him); I get revelational knowledge from him not any MOG or WOG.

But while ur doin dat I need u give me honest answers two questions.

1. Were u ever blessed by any of these ministries(Copeland, Avanzini or Hinn) or WOF ministries when you were much younger in the faith?

2. Have you ever misinterpreted scriptures?

My browsers rily slow, just watched half of the video, noticed quite a number are WOF.

I wonder why people like hacking WOF . I know WOF has had its excesses, but lets not throw away the baby with the bathwater. I spent most of my years with the traditional christian teachings, but when i got born again i joined a core WOF fellowship; we were staunch followers of Hagin, Copeland and Kenyon.Back then I was young in the faith so i followed their teachings religiously n sometimes blindly too.
But awhile ago i started to question a number of things and recently i have grown in revelational knowledge. WOF was a good foundation for me, but i have built on it, learning to take out the excesses n work with the truth in it.
I understand things beta now, and i know revelational knowledge isnt reserved for a select few (MOGs and WOGs) but for all. We all have access to God thanks to Christ finished work and we have the Holy spirit who guides us into all truth. 2Corinthians 3 makes it clear that under the new covenant the MOG concept is fazed out (its "we all" now, not a few people).

My point is this, calling them scammers (atleast for those i saw Copeland, Hinn n Avanzini)is goin to far, some of this people started out well but somehow got into excesses (they are human), lets quit acting like we werent blessed by their ministries at one point or the other.

Pls chek the updated version had problems uploading this post.

Just uploaded a new post on my blog, and thought to share it here . Apparently this is my first thread , so i am kinda new to this. Had problems uploading pics and doing other stuff, so you could check out the post on the blog, its more interactive. http://mywordthots./2013/01/02/finding-the-balance/


FINDING THE BALANCE

Balance: an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady...The OXFORD Dictionary


In our society today, balanced ideas, opinions and teachings are kind of scarce. Man's thinking often times gets warped, moving him towards various extremes. In the world, we see the result of these extremes: the Connecticut shootings, bombings, looting by politicians and the deception played out by some religious leaders. These extremes are caused by either the ignorance of man or his perversion of the truth and many times it’s the later. Over the years, men have twisted certain truths for selfish purposes; one of the many casualties of this is financial prosperity.
The word of God can be interpreted in various ways, for edification or for private gain; sadly, many have chosen the later, twisting scriptures for personal benefit.

Several years before I was born, poverty was said to be next to Godliness (then it wasn’t cleanliness, it was poverty!). Men lived soberly, struggling from day to day trying to make ends meet. Back then, being wretched and miserable was synonymous to humility and Godliness. For example if all a man had was a pair of worn-out shoes, trousers with pockets eaten out by cockroaches and a faded shirt, he was seen to be humble and Godly. The norm was to live miserable here and enjoy over there. Like that famous Yoruba saying Earth was just a marketplace and Heaven was home. The watchword: “suffer here and enjoy there”.

Then the financial prosperity message came on board, and men came to the reality of God's provision. Many walked in this reality, seeing their daily needs met. Steady supplies came not just to satisfy their families but also those around them. Unbelievers of this message saw the results and instantly became converts desiring to live the same reality. Truly in this reality they lived, and thanks to the various testimonies, they made even more converts.

But as the years passed by, men stretched this; seeking to enrich themselves, they laid aside contentment and embraced greed. They cooked up various laws, principles and techniques of kingdom wealth, turning themselves into clients of a magician God (seeking His gifts and nothing else). For many, it became all about the houses, cars and good things of life. In recent times this has worsened; nowadays, there’s a craze for the “material”, many have gone from seeking God to seeking the gifts. His hand is sought first before His face. Today, quite a number of Christians lay up treasures here on earth where moths and rust “corrupt” them. The new watchword: “get all you can, can all you get and sit on the can”.

The financial (material) prosperity message isn't the problem in itself but that men have perverted it. What we have today is greed caused by the perversion of man but I guess it would be wrong to throw away the baby with the bathwater. To say financial (material) prosperity message isn’t part of the gospel, would be another extreme based on ignorance of Gods word. (2Cor. 9:8, Phil. 4:19, Matt. 6:32-33, Ps. 37:25)

The reason for financial (material) prosperity isn't for enriching ourselves and feeding our greed, but rather it’s for being a blessing to those around us (2 Cor. 9:10-14). God wants to supply all our needs according to His riches in glory, but He wants us to seek Him first and not the supplies. Our passion should never be for the things, but for His kingdom. The things come as an addition (Matt. 6:33).
Contentment is key; knowing God is primary, it's not so much about enriching ourselves. The problem with chasing things is our hearts gets captured by them, and our service goes to them instead of God. We make mini gods out of these things (worshipping them) and like we all know no man can serve two masters, one has to bow out for the other.
The things come as an addition; unlike the world we won't have to cheat, steal or kill to get them; they will come easier than expected when we seek God first.

God wants us "rich", but not in the world's context. When we say “rich” what comes to many minds are the billionaires and millionaires of the world and I guess that's the problem. That word needs to be defined differently, being “rich” in this context, means having a full supply, having enough to satisfy you and to be a blessing to others. So a man can be "rich" in millions and a man can also be "rich" in thousands.
Not everybody will be a millionaire! Contentment is key and I think we should preach that more. God promised to give a full supply, not make us the billionaires or millionaires of the world. For some it will be billions, others millions and yet some others thousands.

I know many have said Jesus was rich in the world’s context (fat bank account and all) for quite a number of reasons (having a treasurer and all) but I bet to disagree. That conclusion is merely based on assumptions. For example, having a treasurer is no sign of having a lot of money; many organizations have treasurers and yet are broke. So having a treasurer doesn’t prove anything.
The Bible makes it clear that Jesus had his needs met per time; loaves of bread, the fishes, the colt etc. For most of these things God supplied his needs in a divine way.
Jesus didn't have to spend a thousand dollars to buy the colt he rode on neither did he order for the “burgers” that fed the five thousand, I mean even his ATM was a fish! God met his needs supernaturally. At those points the treasury could have been empty, but yet God came through, now that’s the balanced prosperity message! The whole point isn't thinking of various ways and principles to "get things", but rather learning to depend and trust God to supply our needs while seeking Him first.
Christianity is not a get rich quick scheme (it’s not pennywise). Our God is a generous giver and supplier, but we should seek him for him, not the gifts.

This truth has in recent time really liberated me, helping me put things in right perspective and redefine my reason for living. My service and love for God isn't for the things anymore, though it used to be; I mean at some point that was all I could think of (good job, good wife, cars, houses and all). For me it was all about the material until I realised that even unbelievers lived with these things (money, houses, cars and all). That really pointed out something to me: Christianity is beyond the material. There’s so much more to us than the things. There’s so much more to our faith, so much more....so much more. My new watchword: “Philippians 3:10”

[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]Just uploaded a new post on my blog, and thought to share it here . Apparently this is my first thread , so i am kinda new to this. Had problems uploading pics and doing other stuff, so you could check out the post on the blog, its more interactive. http://mywordthots./2013/01/02/finding-the-balance/


FINDING THE BALANCE

Balance: an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady...The OXFORD Dictionary



In our society today, balanced ideas, opinions and teachings are kind of scarce. Man's thinking often times gets warped, moving him towards various extremes. In the world, we see the result of these extremes: the Connecticut shootings, bombings, looting by politicians and the deception played out by some religious leaders. These extremes are caused by either the ignorance of man or his perversion of the truth and many times it’s the later. Over the years, men have twisted certain truths for selfish purposes; one of the many casualties of this is financial prosperity.
The word of God can be interpreted in various ways, for edification or for private gain; sadly, many have chosen the later, twisting scriptures for personal benefit.

Several years before I was born, poverty was said to be next to Godliness (then it wasn’t cleanliness, it was poverty!). Men lived soberly, struggling from day to day trying to make ends meet. Back then, being wretched and miserable was synonymous to humility and Godliness. For example if all a man had was a pair of worn-out shoes, trousers with pockets eaten out by cockroaches and a faded shirt, he was seen to be humble and Godly. The norm was to live miserable here and enjoy over there. Like that famous Yoruba saying Earth was just a marketplace and Heaven was home. The watchword: “suffer here and enjoy there”.

Then the financial prosperity message came on board, and men came to the reality of God's provision. Many walked in this reality, seeing their daily needs met. Steady supplies came not just to satisfy their families but also those around them. Unbelievers of this message saw the results and instantly became converts desiring to live the same reality. Truly in this reality they lived, and thanks to the various testimonies, they made even more converts.

But as the years passed by, men stretched this; seeking to enrich themselves, they laid aside contentment and embraced greed. They cooked up various laws, principles and techniques of kingdom wealth, turning themselves into clients of a magician God (seeking His gifts and nothing else). For many, it became all about the houses, cars and good things of life. In recent times this has worsened; nowadays, there’s a craze for the “material”, many have gone from seeking God to seeking the gifts. His hand is sought first before His face. Today, quite a number of Christians lay up treasures here on earth where moths and rust “corrupt” them. The new watchword: “get all you can, can all you get and sit on the can”.

The financial (material) prosperity message isn't the problem in itself but that men have perverted it. What we have today is greed caused by the perversion of man but I guess it would be wrong to throw away the baby with the bathwater. To say financial (material) prosperity message isn’t part of the gospel, would be another extreme based on ignorance of Gods word. (2Cor. 9:8, Phil. 4:19, Matt. 6:32-33, Ps. 37:25)

The reason for financial (material) prosperity isn't for enriching ourselves and feeding our greed, but rather it’s for being a blessing to those around us (2 Cor. 9:10-14). God wants to supply all our needs according to His riches in glory, but He wants us to seek Him first and not the supplies. Our passion should never be for the things, but for His kingdom. The things come as an addition (Matt. 6:33).
Contentment is key; knowing God is primary, it's not so much about enriching ourselves. The problem with chasing things is our hearts gets captured by them, and our service goes to them instead of God. We make mini gods out of these things (worshipping them) and like we all know no man can serve two masters, one has to bow out for the other.
The things come as an addition; unlike the world we won't have to cheat, steal or kill to get them; they will come easier than expected when we seek God first.

God wants us "rich", but not in the world's context. When we say “rich” what comes to many minds are the billionaires and millionaires of the world and I guess that's the problem. That word needs to be defined differently, being “rich” in this context, means having a full supply, having enough to satisfy you and to be a blessing to others. So a man can be "rich" in millions and a man can also be "rich" in thousands.
Not everybody will be a millionaire! Contentment is key and I think we should preach that more. God promised to give a full supply, not make us the billionaires or millionaires of the world. For some it will be billions, others millions and yet some others thousands.

I know many have said Jesus was rich in the world’s context (fat bank account and all) for quite a number of reasons (having a treasurer and all) but I bet to disagree. That conclusion is merely based on assumptions. For example, having a treasurer is no sign of having a lot of money; many organizations have treasurers and yet are broke. So having a treasurer doesn’t prove anything.
The Bible makes it clear that Jesus had his needs met per time; loaves of bread, the fishes, the colt etc. For most of these things God supplied his needs in a divine way.
Jesus didn't have to spend a thousand dollars to buy the colt he rode on neither did he order for the “burgers” that fed the five thousand, I mean even his ATM was a fish! God met his needs supernaturally. At those points the treasury could have been empty, but yet God came through, now that’s the balanced prosperity message! The whole point isn't thinking of various ways and principles to "get things", but rather learning to depend and trust God to supply our needs while seeking Him first.
Christianity is not a get rich quick scheme (it’s not pennywise). Our God is a generous giver and supplier, but we should seek him for him, not the gifts.

This truth has in recent time really liberated me, helping me put things in right perspective and redefine my reason for living. My service and love for God isn't for the things anymore, though it used to be; I mean at some point that was all I could think of (good job, good wife, cars, houses and all). For me it was all about the material until I realised that even unbelievers lived with these things (money, houses, cars and all). That really pointed out something to me: Christianity is beyond the material. There’s so much more to us than the things. There’s so much more to our faith, so much more....so much more. My new watchword: “Philippians 3:10”
[img]Just uploaded a new post on my blog, and thought to share it here . Apparently this is my first thread , so i am kinda new to this. Had problems uploading pics and doing other stuff, so you could check out the post on the blog, its more interactive. http://mywordthots./2013/01/02/finding-the-balance/


FINDING THE BALANCE

Balance: an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady...The OXFORD Dictionary



In our society today, balanced ideas, opinions and teachings are kind of scarce. Man's thinking often times gets warped, moving him towards various extremes. In the world, we see the result of these extremes: the Connecticut shootings, bombings, looting by politicians and the deception played out by some religious leaders. These extremes are caused by either the ignorance of man or his perversion of the truth and many times it’s the later. Over the years, men have twisted certain truths for selfish purposes; one of the many casualties of this is financial prosperity.
The word of God can be interpreted in various ways, for edification or for private gain; sadly, many have chosen the later, twisting scriptures for personal benefit.

Several years before I was born, poverty was said to be next to Godliness (then it wasn’t cleanliness, it was poverty!). Men lived soberly, struggling from day to day trying to make ends meet. Back then, being wretched and miserable was synonymous to humility and Godliness. For example if all a man had was a pair of worn-out shoes, trousers with pockets eaten out by cockroaches and a faded shirt, he was seen to be humble and Godly. The norm was to live miserable here and enjoy over there. Like that famous Yoruba saying Earth was just a marketplace and Heaven was home. The watchword: “suffer here and enjoy there”.

Then the financial prosperity message came on board, and men came to the reality of God's provision. Many walked in this reality, seeing their daily needs met. Steady supplies came not just to satisfy their families but also those around them. Unbelievers of this message saw the results and instantly became converts desiring to live the same reality. Truly in this reality they lived, and thanks to the various testimonies, they made even more converts.

But as the years passed by, men stretched this; seeking to enrich themselves, they laid aside contentment and embraced greed. They cooked up various laws, principles and techniques of kingdom wealth, turning themselves into clients of a magician God (seeking His gifts and nothing else). For many, it became all about the houses, cars and good things of life. In recent times this has worsened; nowadays, there’s a craze for the “material”, many have gone from seeking God to seeking the gifts. His hand is sought first before His face. Today, quite a number of Christians lay up treasures here on earth where moths and rust “corrupt” them. The new watchword: “get all you can, can all you get and sit on the can”.

The financial (material) prosperity message isn't the problem in itself but that men have perverted it. What we have today is greed caused by the perversion of man but I guess it would be wrong to throw away the baby with the bathwater. To say financial (material) prosperity message isn’t part of the gospel, would be another extreme based on ignorance of Gods word. (2Cor. 9:8, Phil. 4:19, Matt. 6:32-33, Ps. 37:25)

The reason for financial (material) prosperity isn't for enriching ourselves and feeding our greed, but rather it’s for being a blessing to those around us (2 Cor. 9:10-14). God wants to supply all our needs according to His riches in glory, but He wants us to seek Him first and not the supplies. Our passion should never be for the things, but for His kingdom. The things come as an addition (Matt. 6:33).
Contentment is key; knowing God is primary, it's not so much about enriching ourselves. The problem with chasing things is our hearts gets captured by them, and our service goes to them instead of God. We make mini gods out of these things (worshipping them) and like we all know no man can serve two masters, one has to bow out for the other.
The things come as an addition; unlike the world we won't have to cheat, steal or kill to get them; they will come easier than expected when we seek God first.

God wants us "rich", but not in the world's context. When we say “rich” what comes to many minds are the billionaires and millionaires of the world and I guess that's the problem. That word needs to be defined differently, being “rich” in this context, means having a full supply, having enough to satisfy you and to be a blessing to others. So a man can be "rich" in millions and a man can also be "rich" in thousands.
Not everybody will be a millionaire! Contentment is key and I think we should preach that more. God promised to give a full supply, not make us the billionaires or millionaires of the world. For some it will be billions, others millions and yet some others thousands.

I know many have said Jesus was rich in the world’s context (fat bank account and all) for quite a number of reasons (having a treasurer and all) but I bet to disagree. That conclusion is merely based on assumptions. For example, having a treasurer is no sign of having a lot of money; many organizations have treasurers and yet are broke. So having a treasurer doesn’t prove anything.
The Bible makes it clear that Jesus had his needs met per time; loaves of bread, the fishes, the colt etc. For most of these things God supplied his needs in a divine way.
Jesus didn't have to spend a thousand dollars to buy the colt he rode on neither did he order for the “burgers” that fed the five thousand, I mean even his ATM was a fish! God met his needs supernaturally. At those points the treasury could have been empty, but yet God came through, now that’s the balanced prosperity message! The whole point isn't thinking of various ways and principles to "get things", but rather learning to depend and trust God to supply our needs while seeking Him first.
Christianity is not a get rich quick scheme (it’s not pennywise). Our God is a generous giver and supplier, but we should seek him for him, not the gifts.

This truth has in recent time really liberated me, helping me put things in right perspective and redefine my reason for living. My service and love for God isn't for the things anymore, though it used to be; I mean at some point that was all I could think of (good job, good wife, cars, houses and all). For me it was all about the material until I realised that even unbelievers lived with these things (money, houses, cars and all). That really pointed out something to me: Christianity is beyond the material. There’s so much more to us than the things. There’s so much more to our faith, so much more....so much more. My new watchword: “Philippians 3:10”
[/img]Just uploaded a new post on my blog, and thought to share it here . Apparently this is my first thread , so i am kinda new to this. Had problems uploading pics and doing other stuff, so you could check out the post on the blog, its more interactive. http://mywordthots./2013/01/02/finding-the-balance/


FINDING THE BALANCE

Balance: an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady...The OXFORD Dictionary



In our society today, balanced ideas, opinions and teachings are kind of scarce. Man's thinking often times gets warped, moving him towards various extremes. In the world, we see the result of these extremes: the Connecticut shootings, bombings, looting by politicians and the deception played out by some religious leaders. These extremes are caused by either the ignorance of man or his perversion of the truth and many times it’s the later. Over the years, men have twisted certain truths for selfish purposes; one of the many casualties of this is financial prosperity.
The word of God can be interpreted in various ways, for edification or for private gain; sadly, many have chosen the later, twisting scriptures for personal benefit.

Several years before I was born, poverty was said to be next to Godliness (then it wasn’t cleanliness, it was poverty!). Men lived soberly, struggling from day to day trying to make ends meet. Back then, being wretched and miserable was synonymous to humility and Godliness. For example if all a man had was a pair of worn-out shoes, trousers with pockets eaten out by cockroaches and a faded shirt, he was seen to be humble and Godly. The norm was to live miserable here and enjoy over there. Like that famous Yoruba saying Earth was just a marketplace and Heaven was home. The watchword: “suffer here and enjoy there”.

Then the financial prosperity message came on board, and men came to the reality of God's provision. Many walked in this reality, seeing their daily needs met. Steady supplies came not just to satisfy their families but also those around them. Unbelievers of this message saw the results and instantly became converts desiring to live the same reality. Truly in this reality they lived, and thanks to the various testimonies, they made even more converts.

But as the years passed by, men stretched this; seeking to enrich themselves, they laid aside contentment and embraced greed. They cooked up various laws, principles and techniques of kingdom wealth, turning themselves into clients of a magician God (seeking His gifts and nothing else). For many, it became all about the houses, cars and good things of life. In recent times this has worsened; nowadays, there’s a craze for the “material”, many have gone from seeking God to seeking the gifts. His hand is sought first before His face. Today, quite a number of Christians lay up treasures here on earth where moths and rust “corrupt” them. The new watchword: “get all you can, can all you get and sit on the can”.

The financial (material) prosperity message isn't the problem in itself but that men have perverted it. What we have today is greed caused by the perversion of man but I guess it would be wrong to throw away the baby with the bathwater. To say financial (material) prosperity message isn’t part of the gospel, would be another extreme based on ignorance of Gods word. (2Cor. 9:8, Phil. 4:19, Matt. 6:32-33, Ps. 37:25)

The reason for financial (material) prosperity isn't for enriching ourselves and feeding our greed, but rather it’s for being a blessing to those around us (2 Cor. 9:10-14). God wants to supply all our needs according to His riches in glory, but He wants us to seek Him first and not the supplies. Our passion should never be for the things, but for His kingdom. The things come as an addition (Matt. 6:33).
Contentment is key; knowing God is primary, it's not so much about enriching ourselves. The problem with chasing things is our hearts gets captured by them, and our service goes to them instead of God. We make mini gods out of these things (worshipping them) and like we all know no man can serve two masters, one has to bow out for the other.
The things come as an addition; unlike the world we won't have to cheat, steal or kill to get them; they will come easier than expected when we seek God first.

God wants us "rich", but not in the world's context. When we say “rich” what comes to many minds are the billionaires and millionaires of the world and I guess that's the problem. That word needs to be defined differently, being “rich” in this context, means having a full supply, having enough to satisfy you and to be a blessing to others. So a man can be "rich" in millions and a man can also be "rich" in thousands.
Not everybody will be a millionaire! Contentment is key and I think we should preach that more. God promised to give a full supply, not make us the billionaires or millionaires of the world. For some it will be billions, others millions and yet some others thousands.

I know many have said Jesus was rich in the world’s context (fat bank account and all) for quite a number of reasons (having a treasurer and all) but I bet to disagree. That conclusion is merely based on assumptions. For example, having a treasurer is no sign of having a lot of money; many organizations have treasurers and yet are broke. So having a treasurer doesn’t prove anything.
The Bible makes it clear that Jesus had his needs met per time; loaves of bread, the fishes, the colt etc. For most of these things God supplied his needs in a divine way.
Jesus didn't have to spend a thousand dollars to buy the colt he rode on neither did he order for the “burgers” that fed the five thousand, I mean even his ATM was a fish! God met his needs supernaturally. At those points the treasury could have been empty, but yet God came through, now that’s the balanced prosperity message! The whole point isn't thinking of various ways and principles to "get things", but rather learning to depend and trust God to supply our needs while seeking Him first.
Christianity is not a get rich quick scheme (it’s not pennywise). Our God is a generous giver and supplier, but we should seek him for him, not the gifts.

This truth has in recent time really liberated me, helping me put things in right perspective and redefine my reason for living. My service and love for God isn't for the things anymore, though it used to be; I mean at some point that was all I could think of (good job, good wife, cars, houses and all). For me it was all about the material until I realised that even unbelievers lived with these things (money, houses, cars and all). That really pointed out something to me: Christianity is beyond the material. There’s so much more to us than the things. There’s so much more to our faith, so much more....so much more. My new watchword: “Philippians 3:10”

Most of these "deliverance people" just love "gymnastics" and r ignorant of Gods word.
I found out most of their philosophies are hinged on the old covenant n personal experiences.
Thank God for the revelation in the epistles abt believers and Christs finished work.

Colossians 1:14
[The Father] has delivered and [a]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [b]of His love,

1john 3:8
 [But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].

Hebrews 2:14
 Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death—that is, the devil—
15 And also that He might deliver and completely set free all those who through the [haunting] fear of death were held in bondage throughout the whole course of their lives.

I think u shd add the practice of casting out demons from believers!!!
So many churches are so quick to attach things to demons n witches, when in actual fact most times, d problem is an unrenewed mind...

@ bro Goshen, great stuff!
So happy dat God is raisin up men in dese last days...so many practices n doctrines in d present day church have bn unquestioned for years. I believe the word is our standrd and it should always be given first place. The fact that a doctrine is practiced by lots of churches n has bn practiced for years doesn't make it right.