₦airaland Forum

Candour: Blessings to you dear sister.

let us go that 'touch not anointed verse again.

Psalms 105:12-15 reads thus
'12.When they were but a few men in number;yea,very few, and strangers in it.13.When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people;14.He suffered no man to do them wrong:yea, he reproved kings for their sakes;15.Saying, touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

If you study the above very well,you'll notice he was referring to the whole isreal as anointed so don't localize it to a pastor or MOG no matter how visible.

Courtesy demands we avoid abusing people irrespective of status and for this reason,i STRONGLY detest insults on people.attack issues instead because attacking personalities is an attribute of a small mind.However,we christians must be known to stand against false doctrine anywhere we see it.If MOG feel that he's preaching right and someone is hindering the truth,then he should do like Paul in Acts 13:8-12 and pronounce judgment and see if God will answer him.

Rev Jim Jones in 1978 led almost 1000 souls on mass suicide hiding under this same touch not my anointed defence.If only more people had spoken out,maybe it wouldn't have happened.National Geographic channel ran a documentary on it last year.Do you know how many americans concluded there was no God because of it? Not speaking up is a greater evil my dear sister.

I only wish my brethren on here will avoid going personal on these topics.

Well said bro

Dshepherdboy: Please do not think works of righteousness can substitute living holy lives. Nothing that defileth will enter heaven. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11 the grace of God does not excuse sinful living. May God help us to take his messages seriously.

My brother I'm not excusing sin, I agree that the grace message does not excuse sin

My point is this: we are now the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, christ righteousness has been imparted on us and its not by works but by faith (2cor.5:21, roman 3:19-23). Our standing before God is based on what Jesus did, not what we do; we are Justified by faith and Faith alone. It is this knowledge that empowers us and puts us in a position to live Holy. Its not by trying to do, it's by believing.
Now,let me explain further, its not sin that takes a man to hell but rather its not receiving Jesus as saviour that condemns a man (so this jewelry theory is false; very far from the truth). For the believer also, its not a lack of sin that takes him to heaven but rather it is his believing in Christ that takes him to heaven.

True Salvation is Gods work from beginning to the end, our "work" is believing(faith) in Jesus and resting in his finished work, anything outside of that is mans own formula for salvation. Salvation by faith and faith alone was Pauls message all through his epistles.

Romans 1:16-17
I am proud of the good news! It is God's powerful way of saving all people who have faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. The good news tells how God accepts everyone who has faith, but only those who have faith. It is just as the Scriptures say, "The people God accepts because of their faith will live." (CEV)

Now I hear someone say "but you need to work out your salvation". Well that's right! The bible said work out not work for your salvation. You can't do anything to complete your salvation, believing in Christ finished work, is what makes a man saved.
Work out your salvation simply means you already have a salvation so give it expression. That's why the next verse makes it clear that it is God who is at work in you, not you at work in you.

In many christian circles we believe that if a man has believed in christ for so many years and makes a last minute mistake he goes straight to hell, this isn't true at all.

Your standing before God is not by your works, its in Christ. As long as you keep believing in what he did on the cross and his finished work, bro you are saved. Some would say correct! So I can keep sinning and also keep believing, but wrong! 1john 3:9 gives a balance

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God. (AMP)


If you are born again sin becomes an enemy to you, yes once in a while you might make mistakes, but it’s no more your nature. You now have the God nature (God seed) in you. Sin becomes something you detest.
1john 2 says Christ is the propitiation for our sins, if you read the verse in context you will find out he was referring to believers first and then later unbelievers. Believers still make mistakes once in awhile and Christ is the propitiation for those sins. Sin and the sin nature was taken care of on the cross. The truth is the believer is a work in progress and he still makes mistakes every now and then. People who preach otherwise are just being hypocritical.

For those who still think salvation is by works and not faith alone. Pls check out these scriptures, the bible is very consistent about this. Also, please read the book of Galatians.
Salvation is God’s work, man just needs to keep believing


Please also note this: don't believe in Visions and experiences, believe what Gods word says. Put Gods word first (not pastors word), it will always help you. Anybody can have encounters but the litmus test is Gods word.

Godbless

Hebrews 7:25- Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them (AMP)

Ephesians 2:8-9- For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] (AMP)

Acts 16:31- And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9- That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Galatians 2:16- Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). [Therefore] even we [ourselves] have believed on Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law [for we cannot be justified by any observance of the ritual of the Law given by Moses], because by keeping legal rituals and by works no human being can ever be justified (declared righteous and put in right standing with God). (AMP)

frosbel: 100% Nonsense !!

Bro frosbel, This is. What happens when a person without the understanding of Gods word sees "visions".
Messages like dis make a mockery of grace

Eph. 2:8-9
For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved ([c]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

Romans 6:23
Wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.

Salvation is a gift... Its faith in Christ that gets you saved. Going to heaven isn't by works, ur works don't determine ur entrance ur works determine ur reward.

1corinthians 3:13-15
 The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done.
14 If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward.
15 But if any person’s work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will BE SAVED, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

akin emma: most of the work Jesus did on earth was to conduct deliverance for those that are opressed by the devil.you may say you don't need deliverance as a christian but i want you to answer the following questions.As anointed as Moses was,how did the spirit of anger entered his life?how come the spirit of immorality is still dwelling in Samson despite his anointing?If evil spirits such as these can dwell in the lives of anointed men,then where else can they not dwell.Remember,that the anger of Moses entered into his life through his ancestral lineage i.e Levi.I must also say that it is possible to live a demon free life but that will occur only after you have cast out every demons within you and at the same time closed every doors that they are using to gain access into your life by receving the baptism of the Holy ghost.

My broda, there's a very big difference between the Old covenant and The new covenant. Most of the examples you gave were men under the old covenant, this men didn't have the holy spirit indwelling them.
In our dispensation if a man gives in to anger or fornication, its nt necessarily a spirit, its his ignorance of Gods word. True deliverance is only found in the word of God and nt in Deliverance sessions conducted by churches. Its the word that sets a man free. Its abt renewing the mind thru Gods word.

About Jesus, the Men who He delivered from demons were nt born again because nobody could have bn born again before Jesus shed his blood...this men didn't av the Holy spirit indwelling them.

technically the new covenant (our dispensation) started in Acts ("technically". Hebrews 9 explains ds

15 [Christ, the Messiah] is therefore the Negotiator and Mediator of an [entirely] new agreement (testament, covenant), so that those who are called and offered it may receive the fulfillment of the promised everlasting inheritance—since a death has taken place which rescues and delivers and redeems them from the transgressions committed under the [old] first agreement.
16 For where there is a [last] will and testament involved, the death of the one who made it must be established,
17 For a will and testament is valid and takes effect only at death, since it has no force or legal power as long as the one who made it is alive.
18 So even the [old] first covenant (God’s will) was not inaugurated and ratified and put in force without the shedding of blood. AMP

Godbless

ifihearam: I am shocked at the way some of you think sha,no matter how born again you are,if the right things or steps are not followedthe devil will reside there forever, I saw a particular incidence 3 weeks ago in my church,this usher is as dedicated as ever but in the course of deliverance service the pastor pointed her out,meanwhile she was doing her job assisting those under going deliverance,you won't believe this born again christian started manifesting vis the evil and wicked spirit in her and sshe said they have been dwelling there for years bwhern she was born,and it was an agreement entered between them and the usher4 grand mother. My dear until you invite God,he will look the other way.

Why do you think most christian ladies encounter disappointment??its as a result of the spirit husband and until it is dealt with,they will remain there forever.

The reason your pastors preach otherwise is either of the following reasons:

1)They have a pact with demons or
2)They are not powerful enough to challenge them hence they use that scriptures to deceive you.

My dear you are preaching human experience and not the word of God. The pauline revelaations (col.1:13,eph.2:6, gal.1:4, heb.2:14 etc) give us an idea of d believers standing in Christ...
Greater is He dats in me dan he dat is in this world.
The devil uses all sorts of tactics (spirit husband n all) to keep believers in bondage. His main tool is fear.
I believe a believer who undastands His standn in christ wd always stay victorious. True deliverance comes from the study and meditation on Gods word. When you know the truth in d word, you wd truly be set free.
Lastly, we r Gods temple, His spirit dwells in us, not d devil...

Godbless

Batam: I believe in deliverance because it is continuous action. Majority of Jesus Christ's miracle were deliverance.
Do not let any pastor deceive you that once you give your life to Christ you are no longer vulnerable to spiritual attacks, in fact that is the beginning of battle with the former evil habits that you are indulging in before. You constant prayer to be free totally to maintain your gift which is salvation

My brother as Christians, we are not "Vulnerable" to spiritual attacks. We are sitted in heavenly places in Christ far above principalities, we have been given authority thanks to Christs finished work. As he is so are we in this world, the greater one dwells in Us.
I will advise that you study the pauline epistles, they will help a lot in understanding who you are in Christ.

About the sinful habits, its not a problem of deliverance, bt a mind problem. As a new convert you have to renew your mind with Gods word(Romans 12:2) and that's because The born again experiennce is a spiritual one not a physical one(your spirit is made new, but your mind and body remain the same). Most people who go for deliverance sessions to cast out a "sinful habit spirit" hardly notice changes in their lifestyles and that's why they always have to go back. But the word of God is potent and alive, it renews a man totally...

Godbless

Goshen360: Those who go for deliverance ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. They might be 'church -goers' BUT NOT CHRISTIANS. I do not say that to condemn anyone but CHRISTIANS ARE ALREADY DELIVERED IN THEIR NEWNESS OF LIFE IN CHRIST. You attend deliverance week in week out, what happened to the first deliverance session you attended. Christianity is NOT giving your life to Christ, Christianity is CHRIST GIVING HIS LIFE TO YOU AND YOU LIVING THE LIFE OF CHRIST....."I came, that they may have life and have it more abundantly"....In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4....I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

#On point bro Goshen
Whatever happened to Colossians 1:14 and Galatians 1:4... We need to know who we are aand what we have in Christ

 Colossians 1:13- [The Father] has delivered and [b]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [c]of His love (AMP)

Galatians 1:4- Who gave (yielded) Himself up [[a]to atone] for our sins [and [b]to save and sanctify us], in order to rescue and deliver us from this present wicked age and world order, in accordance with the will and purpose and plan of our God and Father— (AMP)

A christian would need deliverance sessions day in day out only if Christ did not do a perfect work on the cross...

Goshen360: New Living Translation
By his divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to know him, the one who called us to himself by means of his marvelous glory and excellence. - 2 Peter 1:3

The riches and blessedness of believers are completely in Christ when a man be in Christ. That is, when you're born from above, like a little child you're born with everything that is needed to live a human life. So is our divine and new birth in Christ. We are born from above with everything deposited in us. Many of us seek blessings without knowing we're already blessed. When a manufacturer makes a product, the product is made with all features needed to function to the standard of the consumer at a given time. All features for life and godliness had being deposited in you when you became new creation in Christ.

In Christ, we are not seeking to be righteous, God had already given us righteousness - we ONLY live out the righteousness that we're already made in Christ. In Christ, we are not seeking to be blessed, we're already blessed - we only live out our blessings that we're already blessed with. In Christ, we're already delivered - we only live out our deliverance and freedom. In Christ, is our victory over satanic/demonic manipulations - we only live it out.

Someone may say, I need my husband - NO, God had already given you your husband. Someone might say, I need a job. NO, God had already given you a job. There's absolutely nothing in this life that you need that had not being given to you. How come I don't have these things for enjoying life and godliness if they had already being given to me?

to be continue...

@ Goshen, bro God bless you for this...
I pray people come to the knowledge of this truth. Most things in the New testament are written in the past tense...its all in Christ

Snowwy: @wordthots,
First and foremost, we are to seek God first because in Him only is true prosperity.

Exactly...

Candour: @wordthots, i don't know if you're a brother or a sister but whenever i read you, i always wonder how you succeed in dropping it like i would.it's almost like we have a conference and agree on what you write.

my prayer for the church remains that God would bring to our remembrance the reason for Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

kudos and more grace to your life.

Bro, Thank God for the Holy spirit and all that He is doing in these times. My prayer is that we all come to the knowledge of the truth, fully understanding all that Christ did. By the way I am a brother

I recently realized that even Kenneth Hagin snr of blessed memory (considered father of the prosperity gospel) tried correcting many distortions before going to be with the Lord
Check below:

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/Grady_Hagan_Prosperity.aspx

Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son, Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence.

Those who were close to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year after the infamous Tulsa meeting.

Many Word-Faith ministers ignored the book. But in light of the recent controversy over prosperity doctrines, it might be a good idea to dust it off and read it again.

Here are a few of the points Hagin made in The Midas Touch:

1. Financial prosperity is not a sign of God’s blessing. Hagin wrote: “If wealth alone were a sign of spirituality, then drug traffickers and crime bosses would be spiritual giants. Material wealth can be connected to the blessings of God or it can be totally disconnected from the blessings of God.”

2. People should never give in order to get. Hagin was critical of those who “try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine.” He denounced those who link giving to getting, especially those who give cars to get new cars or who give suits to get new suits. He wrote: “There is no spiritual formula to sow a Ford and reap a Mercedes.”

3. It is not biblical to “name your seed” in an offering. Hagin was horrified by this practice, which was popularized in faith conferences during the 1980s. Faith preachers sometimes tell donors that when they give in an offering they should claim a specific benefit to get a blessing in return. Hagin rejected this idea and said that focusing on what you are going to receive “corrupts the very attitude of our giving nature.”

4. The “hundredfold return” is not a biblical concept. Hagin did the math and figured out that if this bizarre notion were true, “we would have Christians walking around with not billions or trillions of dollars, but quadrillions of dollars!” He rejected the popular teaching that a believer should claim a specific monetary payback rate.

5. Preachers who claim to have a “debt-breaking” anointing should not be trusted. Hagin was perplexed by ministers who promise “supernatural debt cancellation” to those who give in certain offerings. He wrote in The Midas Touch: “There is not one bit of Scripture I know about that validates such a practice. I’m afraid it is simply a scheme to raise money for the preacher, and ultimately it can turn out to be dangerous and destructive for all involved.”

(Many evangelists who appear on Christian television today use this bogus claim. Usually they insist that the miraculous debt cancellation will occur only if a person “gives right now,” as if the anointing for this miracle suddenly evaporates after the prime time viewing hour. This manipulative claim is more akin to witchcraft than Christian belief.)

Hagin condemned other hairbrained gimmicks designed to trick audiences into emptying their wallets. He was especially incensed when a preacher told his radio listeners that he would take their prayer requests to Jesus’ empty tomb in Jerusalem and pray over them there—if donors included a special love gift. “What that radio preacher really wanted was more people to send in offerings,” Hagin wrote.

truthislight: The NT encourages christians to work hard and have what to eat but does not say that when you become a christian you will become rich.

That 3John was talking about prospering in the truth. (Increase in knowledge)

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth." (3 John 1:2-4).
..................

People should stick to saying what the bible says.

If one should work hard he will earn a living.

But the prosperity gospel is a different thing and is not the message that christ ask christians to preach to the world.

Contentment has lost its place in our times. Now every christian wants to be a millionaire, but there's no such promise in the bible. Nowadays christians are decieved into doing all sorts of stuff (eg sow a certain amount to destroy poverty)
We 've put so much emphasis on the temporal, forgetting that there's so much more.
The order is seek first his kingdom and other things will be added. When we follow after God, he makes provisin for our needs to be met and bills paid ( not necessarily in millions)

Years back when preaching I used to present the gospel in a certain way. "If you have jesus you will never know poverty, sickness and you will live long". I tried using the prosperity aspect as a selling point for the gospel. How ignorant I was...
I recently read in the papers about a certain man hugh hefner (owner of playboy- a mag dat promotes immorality) and was amazed. The guy is rich, healthy and very old, and he is far from being saved (without judging its obvious). There are many pagans, atheists etc just like him.
You don't have to be a christian to be innovative and standout, I mean that's clear in our world today; an example is Japan, which has more idol worshippers than christians yet it has a good economy and it is very innovative.

The richest men in the world are atheists, buddhists and pagans not christians.
My point; there's so much more to christianity...

enilove: Thank you.In summary ,you just reminded me that, to be carnally minded is death and to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Thank you once more.

You are welcome...
Godbless

@ goshen
Wow, great insight... Thanks, God bless you

@ goshen
Wow, great insight... God bless you

In recent times this is one question that has really bothered me. Each time I look at the pauline prayers (eph.1:16-21, col.1:9-12, eph.3:14-18), they seem so deep and insightful.

I noticed paul didn't pray against enemies neither did he pray for material blessings (like many of us do today). Rather when he prayed for the churches, he prayed for depth, insight and more knowledge in the things of God

Today christianity is fast becoming a get rich quick scheme, we have set our minds on the mundane things. We have taken our eyes off jesus, setting them on the things we can get (money, health and prosperity).
Nowadays the watchword is "get all you can, can all you get and sit on the can"; whatever happened to contentment and knowing Him more.
We 've put so much emphasis on the temporal, forgetting that there's so much more. The new focus is man and what he can get from God. But there is a definite order in the scheme of things and that's seeking first Gods kingdom before the things. The emphasis and focus is God, not the things.

The worlds standards have become our standards. We claim to preach success and prosperity the bible way yet we use the worlds standards.
To us a successful church has a large congregation, large auditorium, the pastor and congregation drive exotic cars, the account is fat and their many business men in the church. Truth is, anybody can get these results, MOG or ifa priest. By hook or by crook. We say "God must be with you, since you are getting results". How naïve...

Contentment has lost its place...
Nowadays we are taught to give so as to get. The more you give, the more you get, we are slowly becoming clients of a magician God. And so Men now give just to get, afterall everyone wants to be a millionaire.
But the truth is we don't give to get, we give cause we love God and in obedience to His word; getting is a bye product (not the end in itself). Whether we get or not we should still give freely in obedience to his word.

We need to learn contentment. Not every christian will be a millionaire, there's no promise like that in the bible.. Paul stressed this in his writings just as Jesus did; contentment is key. Paul never prayed about the churches needs; as far as needs were concerned he just made plain statements of Gods provision e.g phil.4:19, 2cor.8:9. If we seek first Gods kingdom, our needs will be met and our bills will be paid (not necessarily in millions). Its not a prayer, its a fact.

Years back when preaching I used to present the gospel in a certain way. "If you have jesus you will never know poverty, sickness and you will live long". How ignorant I was...
I recently read in the papers about a certain man hugh hefner (owner of playboy- a mag dat promotes immorality) and was amazed. The guy is rich, healthy and very old, and he is far from being saved (without judging its obvious). There are many pagans, atheists etc just like him.
You don't have to be a christian to be innovative and standout, I mean that's clear in our world today; an example is Japan, which has more idol worshippers than christians yet it has a good economy and it is very innovative.

The richest men in the world are atheists, buddhists and pagans not christians.
My point; there's so much more to christianity...let's stop chasing the things, remember no man can serve 2masters.

We need to set our hearts on the right things. I don't know about you but my new watchword is that of Apostle paul:
[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [[a]which it exerts over believers) (AMP)

okeyxyz: Everything you write above is all abstract, but you have not nailed it down to reality...

A christian is simply someone who is free from sin through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For the law which condemns us of sin are now abolished. With the law no longer in the way, so likewise is sin no longer in the way.
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law(1 Corinthians 15:56 );

It is impossible for you to sin.
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God(1 john 3:9 )

Therefore All-Things you used to think were sins(makes you unworthy of godhood) are no longer sins, and you are set free to go as you please. So se.x without marriage cannot be sin, drinking alcohol cannot be sin, gambling cannot be sin, smoking cannot be sin, etc
...FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD’S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS(1 Corinthians 10:26 )

You are left to your own senses to use this new found freedom as you please. You can either use it wisely to your own profit or foolishly to your own loss and sorrows,
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify(1 Corinthians 10:23 )

but they are not sins for it is impossible for god to sin.

About 1john 3:9 I believe the bible was talking about our new nature at the new birth. The recreated spirit cannot sin. But this doesn't mean christians can't sin(it just means sin cannot proceed out of your spirit)...as long as the spirit isn't given the first place the soul and body will lead a christian to sin hence the term carnal christian. The correct order is Spirit- Soul- Body, a reverse in this order will always lead a believer to a struggle with sin.
As long as we walk in the spirit sin cannot have dominion over us, but the minute we do otherwise, we fall into sin.
The beauty of the new birth is the fact that we have a new nature and we do not consciously decide to sin or practice sin, that's what 1john 3:9 is talking about.

Under the new covenant we have liberty but this should never be confused for license.

Like Bro Goshen said it is possible for a Christian to sin but we should never go on sinning. Its true that we are accepted by God not based on our performance but based on christs finished work, but sin is never to be endorsed. We have Gods nature now therefore if we walk in the spirit we would live above sin.

Godbless

Goshen360: Christ, FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION. Nothing but Christ! Christ, the seed of the woman. Christ in the Tabernacle of Moses. Christ, the deliverer and better than Moses. OmG, I feel like preaching right now! Christ the first fruit and our passover! Christ, Christ, Christ!

New Living Translation (©2007)
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. - Luke 24:27

I got delivered the day I understood this scripture. Christ, from Genesis to the Prophets (HIDDEN therein) and WHEN he came,he was SEEN in the Gospels and REVEALED in the Epistles to Revelation. Glory to God, Christ in you, the hope of Glory!

Guess I agree with you, the bible is a Christocentric material (christ centered). From Genesis to Revelations, Christ in all...

John 5:39
You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me! (AMP)

Godbless

akinademayowa: The problem we av in Christianity today is dt many of us Christians approach Christianity in a religious way but Christianity is nt in any way a religion.we r nt bound by any law of do's n don'ts or by any rules n regulations.no matter ao we view ds thns whether we understand it or nt,al these do's n don'ts wl definitely put us back in bondage from whc Christ has made us free.we av nt received d spirit of fear again un2 bondage.no.Christianity isnt about u keeping laws or rules.it's about following d leadin of d holy spirit.now don't misunderstand me,I'm nt sayin dt there's sin again or that we r free 2do anythn ,no.but d truth is dt if u r born again,d holy spirit wl lead u n gv u d understandn of wat is right n wrong,nt u tryin 2follow letters of laws.i wl neither say yes nor no that wearing trousers or any of those questns dt tend to bring confusion,whether they r right or wrong.infact they can b either,depending on ao u r convinced by d holy spirit.for example,there is absolutely nothn wrong if females that understand d word of God wear trousers,not wrong @all.but if another female blvs dt it's wrong,but she starts to wear it just cos she sees another person wearing it n nt cos she's convinced in her own heart by d holy spirit,it's vry wrong for her.for anything dt is done wtout faith is sin.

#on point

moredendisc: The side that elevates Mary as Queen of Heaven, purgatory etc

The post's observation was about awareness of false teachings & doctrines and not over superiority

Note the mention was not exhaustive and had "s" in:
". . . the Oyakhilomes, Oyedepos, Ashimolowos, Adeboyes, TB Joshuas, Oritsejafors, Bakares, Adeboyes, Olukoyas, Okogies, aladuras, WoF, "plentyrascals" etc etc . . . "

It is their ilks that are tagged, not the individuals per se bro.

God bless you real good.

I agree that some of this preachers have not rightly divided the word and that there are doctrines which they practice that do not line up with Gods word. But calling them false...sounds extreme to me.

Left to me I think most of their misintepretations are caused by ignorance (not comparing scripture with scripture, taking scriptures out of context) and exalting experiences above Gods word. This I think we are all guilty of (atleast at one point or the other).

The word "False" almost makes it sound like some of them were never called in the first place. It sounds like you are judging them...

ezme: After how many days? Was there a break in transmission?

And you Bidam, you said Rev. Chris Okotie missed it in another thread, better go back there and let the holy spirit use you over there.

Kept procrastinating, but I'm glad I finally did...

oiseworld: Soo how are we suppose to check for greek/hebrew meaning of these passages when we don't understand these languages.

Bro, You don't have to understand the languages (hebrew or greek). I also don't, all you need is a good concordance; I will recommend strongs or preferably get E-sword its a computer application that gives quite a number of translations and has a good concordance.
The concordance helps you check out words and their root true meanings in the greek or hebrew.
For example "life" in the new testament is translated in three different ways and "love" is translated in 3 or four ways.

Gdobless

wordthots: Bro frosbel if at some point you have ever misinterpreted scriptures, then you are not different from these people (Hagin, copeland et al), the only difference is a mic and a large congregation.
And congrats bro you are also a fake charlattan and scammer

My point: its alright to attack the wrong practices and doctrines but dont attack the personality because some of this people started on a good note but sadly got into error.

Calling them charlatans is going to far, this are people who started out well but ran into error cause they probably didn't compare scripture with scripture.THIS PPLE WERE STILL ANOINTED BUT RAN INTO EXCESSES.
I am not disputing that there are no false prophets(charlatans) out there, these are the last days; so there are many around. But there's a difference between a false prophet and a preacher who runs into excess cause he misinterpreted scripture. That's why paul had to tell timothy: 1timothy 4:16

Keep a critical eye both upon your own life and on the teaching you give, and if you continue to follow the line I have indicated you will not only save your own soul but the souls of many of your hearers as well. (JB Phillips)

Saying we have never misinterpreted scripture at one point or the other would be a dishonest claim.
And at those points where we did, the only difference between us and them would have been a mic and a congregation.
Also, if at some point bro frosbel you were blessed by any of this ministries (Hagin, copeland et al) then attacking deir personalities n not the doctrine and practice is js very wrong.

Js thot I needed to correct the the words in capital. I'm not in the position to say they ran into excesses, would rather just stay mute.
Godbless

moredendisc: The reasons why Christians are falling for false teachings and doctrines and putting up with it are

because Christians over the years have been preconditioned and set up by the status quo and establishment to fall for the false teachings and doctrines

Moreover, since most Christians, don't know any better and are none the wiser, they will believe whatever debasement(s) are flung at them, hook, line and sinker

The journey at this side of eternity, unfortunately for Christians, does not stop with only reading the bible.

but also to read beyond these errant bible translations (i.e. all in varying degrees have strayed from the proper or real meanings of some word(s) in the original Hebrew and Greek texts/scripture)

and to study beyond these errant bible translations to show oneself approved unto God.

Not nice unwelcome or harmful things happen when Christians practice or repeat teachings and doctrines without properly or exhaustively analysing or comprehending them.

Christians need to be considering wordings, teachings and doctrines in details

and to understand these wordings, teachings, doctrines etc instead of lapping up regurgitates and lies without questioning anything

If a teaching or doctrine sounds too good to be true, it means it's more than likely a lie.

Mindful example will be ""You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman." Gen 3:4 NIV

Christians should not base their understanding principally on the Bible alone, because ALL the translations are errant as hinted earlier on above.

Christians should be carrying out investigations on words, texts etc and referencing them from whichever bible they are using, with the original Hebrew/Greek texts

It is ONLY the original Hebrew/Greek texts that are inerrant and not KJV and the other translated Bible(s)

Christians reading the bible by itself, only, without cross checking words, texts etc with the original Hebrew/Greek texts can be and will be damned by the bible.

This is the silver bullet and way forward, of course in-conjunction with the Spirit of Truth, for such a complicated problem as this


# Side-lining the bible translations (i.e. KJV et al) what does the wordings "eternal punishment" Matthew 25:46 really mean from the original Greek text's perspective

#on point

1corinthians 8:6

5-6 For although there may be so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many of them, both of gods and of lords and masters,
Yet for us there is [only] one God, the Father, Who is the Source of all things and for Whom we [have life], and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through and by Whom are all things and through and by Whom we [ourselves exist]. (AMP)

A good parallel for this scripture is john 1:1-3

In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [b]Himself.
2 He was present originally with God.
3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. (AMP)

And another good parallel scripture is genesis 1

This passages are referring to creation in general and not that all things (good and evil) come from God.
Looking at the creation story it was never said that God created darkness, but rather he called forth light (v2). Also in some other place all God created was seen as good ( that's the opposite of evil)
This are just pointers to the real attributes of God
Evil, sicknesses n all didn't exist in the beginning they came after the fall of man. The devil became the god of the world when man fell.
From the story of Job, john 10:10, acts 10:38 he is the author of evil and oppression.
I will end by asking you this question

Will sickness and all forms of evil exist in heaven and the millenial reign?

About isaiah 45 still putting my thoughts together.

Godbless

This is also just like ephesians 1 cause the context is salvation.

Chapter 10 gives us a good background for chapter 11. It talks about how the isrealites have rejected Gods method of establishing righteousness (by faith) and how they embraced their own method of establishing righteousness (by the law). It refers to how the gentiles have embraced the gospel and gives prophecies to back this up.

In chapter 11 it talks about how the benefit of salvation was passed to the gentiles despite isreals rejection of it (thanks to Gods providence). God working all things despite their rejection.

11-12 Now I ask myself, “Was this fall of theirs an utter disaster? It was not! For through their failure the benefit of salvation has passed to the Gentiles with the result that Israel is made to see and feel what is has missed. For if their failure has so enriched the world, and their defection proved such a benefit to the Gentiles, think what tremendous advantage their fulfilling of God’s plan could mean. (JB Phillips)

The latter part places an argument for jews despite their rejection and why the gentiles should not feel conceited cause they believe but rather fear God. Also paul talks about how isreal can still be restored if they believe, despite their initial rejection. He argues that their restoration is even "simpler" than the salvation of the gentiles (he uses the analogy of a tree)

The whole chapter just shows how Gods plan unfolds both to jews and gentiles despite deir flaws. It shows us how complex and wise Gods thoughts can be, and how he works all things according to his will. Hence the reason for the last 4 verses which praise God who works all things (in this case salvation) according to His will.

34-35 Frankly, I stand amazed at the unfathomable complexity of God’s wisdom and God’s knowledge. How could man ever understand his reasons for action, or explain his methods of working? For: ‘Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become his counsellor?’ ‘Or who has first given to him and it shall be repaid to him?’

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever, amen. (JB Phillips)

its not referring to God doing good and evil or how good and evil comes from God, but how God brings his plans to pass despite seeming flaws.

@ gbrookes

I decided to explain your anchor scriptures in the right context, I hope this helps...

Ephesians 1:11

 All things are done according to God's plan and decision; and God chose us to be his own people in union with Christ because of his own purpose, based on what he had decided from the very beginning (GNB)

This passage is referring clearly to salvation, salvation is the right context.
It talks about a plan/will of God, which is already referred to in verse 4 and 5 (most especially 5).

5 God[b] had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children—this was his pleasure and purpose. (GNB)

Now verse 10 talks about how that plan keeps unfolding till the millenial reign (the ultimate goal).

"All things are done according to God's plan" what does this mean

His plan was to bring christ and "through Jesus Christ he would make us his children" (v5). This plan (christs coming and our union with him) will lead to the ultimate goal v10

Before christ came how did God work all things to this plan?

Isreal was chosen by God, even though from time to time they were disobedient he still worked through them to fulfill his plan of bringing Jesus.
God used men despite their flaws in accomplishing his plan. Examples are Rehab (a prostitute), Jacob (correct 419ner), David (adulterer and murderer), Abraham( liar) etc.

God did not push David to commit adultery with Bathsheba neither did he make him kill her husband, David did that himself. Yet Jesus is a dscendant of the son of that woman and also a descendant of the people listed above( that's God working all things to his plan).

It would be ridicolous to think God pushed them to disobedience. The truth is they made their choices but God still worked thru this

Some men under the old testament had a glimpse of this plan, that's why we have hebrews 11

God worked through men, giving them various signs and shadows of what his plan was, for example Abraham wanting to sacrifice Isaac, moses putting a snake on a "cross", the rock which moses hit, Noah and the ark etc. All this were pointers to Gods plan

Even till now He is still working through us, bringing more men to himself through us and also till that ultimate goal (millenial reign) is fulfilled. Phillipians 2:13 (its God at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure), 2cor 4:7( we carry this treasure in earthen vessels...)

Though we have flaws and are not perfect yet he still works through us.

I believe that's what the passage is talking about, its not talking about God doing "all things" in terms of good and evil but rather that through the dispensations of times God worked through men despite flaws till christ came bodily and is still working till the ultimate goal is fulfilled.

Did you notice that before most of this verses (Ephesians 1:11and romans 8:36)Paul was talking about salvation? I believe these scriptures should be interpreted in the light of these scriptures.
Still collecting my thoughts
For now I will concentrate of interpreting theses scriptures in the right context. Would touch on salvation much later

gbrookes02: Malachi 3:6 "For I the LORD do not change..." English Standard Version (©2001).

Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" New International Version (©1984).

The Jesus of the new covenant is the same God of the old covenant and He doesn't change. Jesus sent sicknesses in the old covenant and He stills sends sicknesses in the new covenant.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture (both the old and new testaments) is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (English Standard Version).

1 Corinthians 11:27-32 "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world." (English Standard Version).

Romans 11:36 "For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen" (English Standard Version).

Ephesians 1:11 "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" (English Standard Version).

1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist" (English Standard Version).

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (King James Version).

From the above passages of scripture we see that God is in absolute sovereign control of all things, and sovereignly causes everything, be it good or evil, light or darkness.

The book of Revelation tells us that the Lord will be sending plagues (among other things) on the earth to destroy the earth in the last days because of man's evil and wickedness. And that all these thing will be happening before He comes back.

Read the article "Sickness, Disease, Healing" at this link: http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_sickness.html

On the hatred of God.

Romans 9:10-13, 18, 21-23 "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,"

(King James Version)

Psalm 5:6 "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." (King James Version)

Psalm 11:5 "The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." (King James Version)

Hebrews 12:5-8 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

(King James Version)

From the above scriptures we clearly see that God hates and is wrathful against some people, and others He loves. In other words God don't love everybody.

This had always been a big question for me, but a while back I did a little study:
I hope this helps

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the Old Testament revealed. I believe revelation knowledge is progressive and the highest revelations of God are revealed in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. That's why when Jesus called God father the Jews picked up stones to stone him.
Looking at the Old Testament and the New Testament, it looks as though there are quite a number of contradictions. Good and evil are attributed to God in the Old Testament. Obviously most of us don’t have a problem with the former, but we have a big problem with the latter because it seems to contradict the New Testament. Now, before I go into seeming contradictions between the Old and New let me talk about some in the Old.

The killings of the first born in Egypt seem to be done by God, but if you look closely at Exodus 12:23 there is a little distinction.

23. The LORD will go throughout Egypt to kill the Egyptians. When he sees the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe, he will pass over that doorway, and he will not let the destroyer come into your home to kill you (GW trans.)

It first says God will kill then it says God won't allow the destroyer. In 2Samuel 24:1 we are told David was tempted by God and then 1chronicles 21:1 narrates same thing and attributes it to the Devil. Also, guess we all know the story of Job who though he was robbed by the devil of all he had attributed it to God (this was based on his level of revelation). These seeming contradictions (except Job) are good pointers to something, which I will explain in the last paragraph.

Seeming contradictions between OT and NT are:

Isaiah 45:7 and 1 john 1:5 (God is light and there’s no darkness in Him), Amos 3:5 and James 1:13 and 17 (God does not do evil), Exodus 12:23a and 1cor. 15:26 (Death is Gods enemy), Exodus 12:23a and John 10:10 (the thief .... steal, kill and destroy) etc.

Most things seem concealed in the Old Testament. For example in Genesis the serpent isn’t called the devil, till the NT (Revelation 12:9).
Like I said the revelation in the bible is progressive, if not for the Epistles we won’t understand the Gospels fully and what Jesus came to accomplish. Our inheritance, identity and all as believers are found in the Epistles.

The New Testament gives us a clearer picture of who God is. The ministry of Jesus and the Epistles give a clear picture of who God really is and what his will is. He is the life giver, the healer, father etc. This obviously contradicts some parts in the Old Testament but this doesn’t mean we should throw away the Old Testament. For all scripture is God breathed and Paul was referring to the old testament when he made this statement and also God doesn't change.

But like Dr Young (Youngs bible translation) explains it in “Hints to Bible interpretation” the verbs in the Old Testament, the original Hebrew is actually written in the permissive sense rather than the causative sense. The translators of the OT put it in the causative sense (well some of it that is why there are seeming contradictions in the OT too), so in actual fact God didn’t do, but God permitted. A very good example is the story of Job.
Godbless

Would try to address other parts soon.

[quote author=Joagbaje]If he can have the faith required he can,even to the moving of mountain but. Faith must be exercised according to the will of God. Not our flesh.

Thanks bro, on point

I had to ask myself this question, a while back. I remember talking to a friend about the Blackberry porsche phone and how expensive it was. He then jokingly said he was going to add it to his confessions. I asked him if he thought he was really going to get it by doing that and he gave an emphatic yes. His scriptural backing mark 11:23:

For verily, I say to you, WHOSOEVER shall say to this mountain...HE SHALL HAVE WHATSOEVER HE SAITH.

With emphasis on the capitals. I honestly felt that was taking it too far. Like I said earlier man has certain cravings and its very easy for us to inteprete scriptures to appeal to these cravings.