₦airaland Forum

On the contrary, I think that perhaps your involvement with atheism is not influenced by reason or logic but rather by emotions. You have not displayed any thought-provoking narrative to illustrate why the material world we live in could not have been made by a super-intelligence. Neither has your master, Richard Dawkins being able to do the same.
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@noetic16, you are making the claims, you present the evidence.
no RD is not a master of atheism. there is no authority in atheist. no jesus and certainly no satan to hold hands with that jesus.
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you mean the converse,  not reverse I am sure,

Well, I really doubt this, I can show you many examples of what I am saying,  In fact I have at least one very offended Christian in the post "Atheism Is A Religion "right now,  have you watched the video?

blah blah blah . . . .get off the highway and start making some sense.
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@ noetic16 , Christians love acting so "non-Christianly" hahahah, so rude and obnoxious,  you'd wonder who has the holy spirit. hahaah
well, well, I am on the highway,  and what I have said makes perfect sense.
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When Christ preached . ,  . .His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC.
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well said, @Martian, I repeat, what you said, here, again, hihih

I see, you mean ,  his message was "confusing to the receipts",   that we already know,  and his intention for doing this is clear
Mark
4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Is that what you think Esoteric means? Christians have a tendency to abandon their dictionaries when their god is involved.

let me make it easy ,for you,  this is a quote from dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/esoteric
1.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.

So stop pretending that you are coming up with new English words, we already know what they mean. The best you can do is pick 1 to 4, and say which one you think means ".His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC." or get us a more suitable word like "confusing".
>>

Quote
I was simply telling u that based on your assertion, its very not impossible that u as an atheist today may abandon such belief to move over to the theistic belief if more evidences arise more than those we already have.

That true. . .

Actually, maybe yes, maybe no.
More evidence = Enough evidence then, why not,
More evidence = Still far from enough evidence, then most certainly not

God=me


"Because I was constantly being told that I'm rejecting God, and I knew that wasn't true, I decided to research rejection, which made me aware of its effects. My studies took me in a completely unexpected direction. The epiphany (pun intended) was rather shocking. The evidence indicates that the personal god is a manifestation of the ego, which explains a plethora of theistic tendencies, including their typical dislike of atheists, who theists subconsciously perceive to be rejecting a part of themselves. God is Tyler Durden; and the first rule of Jesus Club is you have to talk about Jesus Club. The second rule of Jesus Club is you have to talk about Jesus Club." (by DarkMatter 2522)

Reference:
[flash=600,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU[/flash]

@Enigma I totally understand, If I had not been in discussions with super emotional Christians before I would have been surprised. But it is not really your fault, blame Jesus.

by saying it is esoteric you simply mean, that it is a secret!!! hahaahahah that is something that only revealed to you, right?
and you are absolutely right! people because god=noetic16=jesus=you ha ha ha
god understands you so much and he loves you so much and hates the people you hate, because god is you. hahaha
christian doctrine however is not esoteric, not in the least form. It is available to everyone, easily and readily and it takes you to have blind faith to believe it.

Do you know why you are getting so emotional enigma and abusive apart from the fact that of course your bible tells you so, ?? it is because, God= Enigma=Jesus=you. Like I said, people, we have already read your replies, each and every word. Try doing the same and you would more closer to enlightenment.

Yes, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is in effect here on NL - in particular among the evangelical atheists! Do you people even think at all? Look, anywhere you see an evangelical atheist, even if he is on his own, you see the Dunning-Kruger Effect!!! Why, because only a person who is omniscient can say there is no God. So the evangelical atheist is waaaaaaaaaaaaay above his station to be so daftly presumptuous! In other words ----- the very worst case of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Wink

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evangelical atheists? ha ha hhah ha
evangelical - Of or denoting a tradition within Protestant Christianity emphasizing the authority of the Bible, personal conversion, and the doctrine of salvation by faith in the Atonement
sounds like an oxymoron. hahashaha Good one!

>>.
1. Why, because only a person who is omniscient can say there is no God.
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This is saying that only a person who a genius in maths can answer 2 when asked what 1 plus 1 is.
There is no evidence to support the existence of a God hence the parallel of the Spaghetti monster. Evidence begets fact not the other way round.
There is no assumption made by atheist, actually none at all, that's why they hold their position.
Theist on the other hand, tsk tsk tsk,
>>


All your (evangelical atheists') arguments that I've seen here are stale.

In any event, this thread is a good example of where I have destroyed arguments put forward by evangelical atheists from more than one dimension. Read it from page 1 but especially from page 6 and enjoy! Smiley
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well, your counter arguments are surprisingly weak, you make and continue to make great claims without any empirical evidence.
quoting the bible does not qualify as evidence for anything to people who don't believe in the bible in the first place, and neither does poorly written article .e.g.
Atheism: A religion by Daniel Smartt.

Religious fanatics like you tend to have a big problem is understanding things un-religious. so you tend to try to work from known to unknown in this crude manner and without doubt with
distraous outcomes.

jayriginal categorically rebuffed your article , blow for blow. do either you did not take time to read the reply, or amadioha forbid! you did not understand.
so if, I am to break it down for you again and show you just how finicky this article is, will you, 10 posts later, tell someone else, "I have destroyed arguments put forward by evangelical atheists from more than one dimension"

I think your first failure, is in definition of terms. You need to become more intimate with your dictionary.
Also, you need to become less arrogant and actually take the trouble to read people's replies and ruminate about them as we do with yours. (believe me, it is not easy, but these are the terms of engagement )

You need to get one point first, an atheist is necessarily an evolutionist. There is this unhealthy obsession theist have for Richard Dawkins. You are all so desperately looking for a Jesus to crucify, you know what, there is no Jesus in atheism. And there can never be one. Some atheist believe in evolution, some don't. There is no doctrine, and no dogma. And I know you just can't get it. But think of it this way. You are a nigerian but also a man. You can be from another country, so a brazilian man for example. or you can be a woman. same thing. So if you are attacking Nigeria (Evolution/Evolutionist) then do so. Be precise. But attacking Nigerian does not mean that you are attacking all the men. therefore not all the atheist. This is really basic, and I have taken the trouble to break it down for you in sizeable chunks, please don't tell me you don't get this. There are also Christians who believe in Evolution! you know, they call it intelligent design. So stop getting basic terms wrong, otherwise, we will be forced to redefine them over and over again. And you will complain that we are not original.

Quote from: zataxs on Today at 03:11:02 PM
@enigma, saying atheism is a religion is like saying not having a car is a type of car. Part of the definition of a religion is a supernatural being.
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Says who?

Do you people read at all? Or is it another example of the obtuseness that I refer to? Read this thread again and let me see if you will still repeat the bolded!

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No has to say it, it is just the way it is. I read the article. And it is a terrible read, I suffered through the whole of it.
The article by Daniel Smartt is a portrayal of lack of knowledge in philosophy and science. That's all.
Lumping totally unrelated things together, in a desperate attempt to make a case where none exists.
E.g. The article implies that Dawkins started this so called "Contemporary Atheism". maybe you can start acquinting yourself with others,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheist_authors
and wash away, some of that ignorance.
Granted, like I said, even this list is not exhaustive and it carries no authority. There is no authority in atheism.
That's your attacks fail to even make sense.

Humanist Manifesto?? This article is pathetic. The author is lazy and sloppy.

Many people reading your posts, will no doubt be taken aback by your "un-christian nature" to call people names. and be unncessarily abusive.
I think however, you are doing a very Christian thing. And you are fine a example of what happens when someone is controlled by the Holy Spirit.
So, I am not moved by your petty insults, apart from exposing your arrogance and shallowness
I think it is what Jesus taught you to do. A most immoral, perverse and myopic barbaric man. So it is not surprising at all then you behave the same way as your God.


it is very simple, enigma, you don't believe in buddha, you just happen to be believing in yahweh, you are in atheist so some extent to get over it.
So stop pretending to act as if it is an alien concept.
We just don't believe in your God as well.

@enigma, even if someone says 1+1 = 2 many times it does not cease to be true, "The Dunning-Kruger Effect" is in effect here in NL. I'd like to see you actually produce tangible evidence to the contrary. You say you want an original argument,  then you must also step up and give more reasonable counter-arguments. Something I am yet to see.

@enigma, saying atheism is a religion is like saying not having a car is a type of car. Part of the definition of a religion is a supernatural being.

@toba, Paul is simply giving thugs, criminals a green light to use Christianity as a tool to further their ends. And as we see in Nigeria and elsewhere,  this is very common. Paul actually recognizes how the bible lends itself to misuse ( in the name of spreading the gospel) I hardly see how this argument is to your favour.

Why are we threatening each other and getting all personal. This is the problem of religion. taking things to heart, instead of reasoning things out. in fact, taking things to weapons.

@Sweetnecta Islam vs Christianity is like pitting your left hand against your right. It really does not make sense, considering they are all so similar. It is very self defeating. they all stem from Judaism and they all carry forward the same fundamental flaws. It is an extremely retrogressive argument and serves no purpose at all. With or without the differences, religion has always and will always be at odds not only with science but with knowledge as a whole. Christianity perhaps benefits from the fact that most of its followers don't take it seriously and don't even know its bible. We just need to start taking religion less seriously.

@Pastor AIO
Stem cell is of course progress, just read about it online,

Maybe you are just pretending not to know about the conflict of science and the religion. I really doubt that you'd miss substantial evidence of this. From stem cells, which you are opposing here, to condoms for aids, ottoman empire stalled its progress because of religion etc etc we can go through specific examples if you want, but this stuff is all over the net. are you really saying this because you don't know?
Granted, some works of art have "passion" but this is not confined to only religious pieces and differently not within certain religion. Michelangelo's talent was not as a result of God's hand but Michelangelo's hand. And his passion, his brains, that's why we celebrate him. Not every religions person can draw. Not every non-religious person can draw. drawing has connection with religion. Probably more with culture. But mostly it is just talent.


I think there is a big misunderstanding of what the significance and importance of religion is. Religion had done a lot of good things. and this window for this post does not have enough room to write all of them. No one is denying this. Gregor Mendel was a monk and a scientist. There are many muslims scientists who have done amazing things. Religions, Islam, Christianity, have done very great things. And that's why you are all up in arms defending religion.

But so did slavery. slavery resulted in cheap labour which in turn enabled rapid development.

The fact that something resulted in something good happening especially in the past does not mean, whatever it is, is still good and relevant now. It also does not mean we will forget it, if we adopt something better and more relevant now. This argument has to have a modern inclination and it must look at the impact (mostly bad) of religion now. Otherwise, if we want to talk about great historical events, we might as well talk about the Egyptians.

we cannot overlook the atrocities committed by religion today just because they "allow" certain things.

about:
bring them here and slaughter them before me.’” Luke 19:27
you need to quote the complete verse. if you are intending to be honest, go all out. hahahah there isn't enough space allowed for the signature.
This is if course the evil parts of religions text that many would like to see hidden. You can read the whole verse if you like.

@Pastor AIO

If Islam is what made muslims build Dome of the Rock does it make it Islam a good thing. What then of the Aztec religions?

So even if, though I disagree, that religion may have resulted in progress (religion has an uncanny tendencies of trying to attribute credit to itself when it is clearly not due), We need to ask ourselves, at what cost? , Ask Galileo.

It is too expensive. we cant just sit down and force ourselves to give the church credit on some pieces of art and ignore the atrocities and outright blocking of progress e.g stem cell.

religion is at odds with science. and with progress.

first a fowl has feathers, so just forget it. this is pure desperation and it is clear you are getting your meanings from other equally desperate christians. do you think that jews are allowed to eat bats?

and a rabbit is just a rabbit, we also have references.
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/768.htm
so jews eat rabbit?

it is what I call a silly attempt.

ever heard of kosher?



Psalm 75

75:1 Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, unto thee do we give thanks: for that thy name is near thy wondrous works declare.
75:2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.
75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

pillars holding the earth hhaha


Then spake Joshua to the LORD , Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. -- joshua 10:12-13

the sun stood still|??


isaiah 59:5"They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper."
Bad people hatch cockatrice eggs. Whoever eats the eggs will die, and when the eggs are crushed a viper hatches.


levticus, All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.--11:20

now now, kindly ensure you at least verify you replies before you post them. otherwise, what's the point? the truth is screaming at you. just stop trying to pretend that you can hide from these errors.

after reading the posts on this thread, one thing is very clear.
the bible, jesus, god actively and successfully blocks Christians from reasoning.
what is being discussed here is very simple and it has been broken down and explained to all very well.
But christians here are literally trapped in an endless loop.
literally creating their own definitions for words.

and even besides their flawed arguments and really weak evidence.
it is very clear that christians have no etiquette at all.
they quickly turn to name calling,
they are rude, obnoxious and self-righteous.

who ever was given the impression that christians are meek would be sorely disappointed.

also displaying your lack of knowledge in science. Basic principles that you can just look up from even a 12 grade science book, does not make you win this logical argument.

if you want a logical argument. then let's stick to logic and facts.

@Sweetnecta unfortunately, the quran is just a bastardized version of the christian bible. And even though it is supposed to be more recent, the idea of keeping to the original text and language has meant it has escaped the benefits of revision.

Satanic verses is a work of fiction. Is there anyone else here who has actually read this book? You'd need to be covered by the blindness of religion not to see it is just a simple book. If you take everything you read so seriously and you verify and compare you would not wait for people like me to reveal the overwhelming errors in the Quran, and you'd clearly see how it has a poor sense of morality and clearly no logical way of right from wrong. Much like its fore-bearers.

it doesn't matter who wrote the bible?? of course it does. Because without putting it to its historical period and the location where those barbaric peasants and herdsmen plagiarized from other texts, then you'd obviously not understand why it is so badly written and it is so barbaric.

for satan to exist, god must exist first.

@Ishilove

Maybe you have not seen an old swiss watch.

if you break your watch and throw the pieces in the gardens.

in 10 years , the iron parts of the watch exposed to the elements will turn to rust, it will blend with the soil and it will not be a watch anymore, its components will blend with the soil and plants may even absord parts of it and you may eat it and crap it. that is just 10 years. time changes a lot.

the bible discourages other wise ideas and other wise thoughts. Because with knowledge comes greater understanding, and new information replaces the old. so it is of course part of religion to despise "wisdom". You are very much in character of what the bible expects you to do.

as regards evolution, this is does not require blind faith to believe. we have observed extinction of animals and plants taking place. and we have seen many organisms that have changed to adapt to their new environments. we have seen man-made DNA actually give rise to life. so please.

to be frank, there is no added value in your argument. the complexity of something does not mean it cannot be formed by simple parts. it does not mean there is a creator, it does not mean there isn't one.

your inference on the stupidity of men, clearly shows your misunderstanding of everything. The bible was printed by men. and read by men and the text is in men's language. to be honest not the most intelligent of men wrote the bible. however, there were still men. there is nothing that can prove that there is anything supernatural about the bible, nothing at all. someone told you to read it, someone told you it is the god's book. There is no escaping the "humaness" of the bible. it has no value without humans. it is for humans and it is by humans. in the end just men. ha hahh

Idehn, very well said.

Jesus was not just speaking to ordinary people. he was speaking to barbaric people who knew very little. But it is wrong to take advantage of people with little knowledge and feed them with lies because they cannot prove you wrong. Unfortunately, for Jesus, the ordinary person now, is a lot more knowledgeable than Jesus himself. So cheap tricks don't impress anymore.

we can read the bible too, and it has many scientific errors, we know it is a heavily plagiarized book and it is full of contradictions and logical errors. no amount of faith or name calling from your end can change that.

Leviticus 11:6 rabbits chew cud?

6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you.


Deuteronomy 14:11-18 a bat is a bird!

11 You may eat any clean bird. 12 But these you may not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 13 the red kite, the black kite, any kind of falcon, 14 any kind of raven, 15 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 16 the little owl, the great owl, the white owl, 17 the desert owl, the osprey, the cormorant, 18 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

And there are many many more.

scientific errors in the bible
Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. (The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.) Mark 4:31

Jesus heals a boy with "a dumb spirit" by saying, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him and enter no more into him." (Sounds like a script from Monty Python, doesn't it?) But how could a deaf spirit hear the words spoken to it? And how could a dumb spirit cry out? Mark 9:17, 25-26

The devil takes Jesus to the top of a mountain and shows him "all the kingdoms of the world." I guess the world was flat in those days. Luke 4:5


These are among many errors in logic/science that Jesus made. The list is long.

In my whole life have I heard such flawed logic. wait, This is worse that Noah's ark!

You said, Because it is a belief-system, atheism is a religion
so what is wrong with KAG's apurpledinosaursinihmotep'sgarden
In fact if that makes you a NOTapurpledinosaursinihmotep'sgardenist


I believe that God has a round head, does that make me a GodHasARoundHeadist hahahahaha

Desperation.

@OLAADEGBU the idea is to spam as with many boring meaningless cartoons
the only reason we are not doing the same thing is courtesy. There is no shortage of atheist cartoons and jokes, I have few.privileged your eyes with a sampling of a few.
However, what is the matter on debate? why not stick to the matter at hand and produce tangible arguments instead of trying to impress us with your picture posting abilities.
But again if you really had compelling arguments and deep knowledge of your subject matter then you'd probably be an atheist hahaaha.

actually the right word is broad.
but let's get narrow
the point here is simple atheism is not a religion and that's it, the rest are extras

@ OLAADEGBU it is indeed a compliment to me to say I am the same person as thehomer, hhahahaa, thanks

Your circles of reasoning are ultimately self defeating. They don't even pass your own tests.

What tests do they need to pass?

We dismiss the bible because we know it. Intimately we even know verses like 2 Kings 2.23-24 which I would be surprised if you know.

what questions am I begging? please ask!

"You have decided in advance that such things as miracles are not possible" = because no evidence of them exists

"not an all-powerful God who is capable of doing the things recorded in Scripture" = because no evidence of such a person,thing or being exists.

cogent like what? the shaking of someone who has been hit by the holy spirit.

"When you accuse the Bible of being illogical because it goes against your subjective assessment of what is possible, it turns out to be that it is you, not the Bible, who is being illogical. "
I say the bible is illogical because there is no evidence to prove the contrary. It is a personal issue. like e.g. having a personal god who listens to me, my prayers, who loves me etc, no no, this is just really lack of evidence. We would all be happy to look at some exhibits if you have any.

@KAG
What you have is not just a problem of definitions but a problem of understanding.
So when we are busy trying to define things for you, you are not getting it because you are not after the dictionary explanation of terms.
That's why you think the analogy of footballers is wrong ha ha ha

So let me clarify this for you and the many religious people out there
1. in the strictest sense of the definitions of these words, atheism is not a religion the same way theism is not a religion. this are properties of a bigger component. the same way red is not a car, it is just the colour of the car. so the assertion being brought forward here is wrong.
2. so let's try to define what these people who call themselves atheists. I think to help you advance your case let's pick an exciting bunch, who we will for now call freethinkers, here are some common things you are likely to find about them.
a) a belief in empirical evidence that are tabled and open for examination like evolution
b) a lack of belief in Gods, god, or any other supernatural thing or being, sitting on top the sky dictating terms. no evidence of such a being exists, therefore this is just a reinforcement of point 1.
c) a good understanding of all major modern religions and a good number of little known or ancient ones. It is well known that atheists tend to spring up as sections of the society get a better understanding of "their" religions.
d) a lack of affinity to cultural practices sometimes intertwined with religion that don't make sense. like believe in existence and need to kill child witches. This really again is in point a.
e) tendency to be irreligious. therefore back to point a.

3. humanism is not a religion. It can be better defined as a view or way of life or philosophy.

4. a religion MUST have the following attributes
a) the belief in supernatural beings — usually, but not always, including gods .e.g. Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha), Jesus, Muhammed
b) Differentiating between sacred and profane objects, places, and times e.g. Cross, Mecca, Shroud of Jesus
c) encouragement of feeling like awe, a sense of mystery, adoration, and even guilt in the presence of sacred objects and places, and the feelings are typically connected to the presence of the supernatural e.g. Amadioha the snake, holy water, etc
d) communicating to the supernatural, usu, through prayer or other ritual .e.g sacrificing,

There seem to be this desire to justify doing certain things.
maybe you want some false sense of confidence. That hey, we are all in it. We are all practicing religion or something like that.

sadly. not everyone is. You need to wake up and smell the coffee.

So jesus and moses are walking through the desert when they come upon the red sea. Moses cracks his knuckles and says, "check this out jesus i still got it." He slams his staf on the ground and with plenty of pomp and circumstance the sea parts. Jesus tells moses, "ya well you aren't the only one who can still show off." And begins walking out on the water he gets about halfway out and starts to sink if it weren't for moses he would have likely drown. When moses gets him back to shore moses consoles the savior of mankind, "don't worry about it jesus last time you tried that stunt you didn't have holes in your feet."

https://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/please-help-me-jesus-im-dying.jpg
ha ha

A preacher was taking a walk one day and happened upon a young girl who was playing with something in a cardboard box. When he got closer he could see that the box held a litter of new-born kittens. "What kind of kittens are those?" asked the preacher.
"They're Christian kittens," replied the little girl.
The preacher walked on, pleased to see that the little girl had Jesus foremost in her thoughts.
A few days later the preacher saw the little girl again. "And how are your little Christian kittens doing today?" he asked.
"Oh, they aren't Christian kittens, they're atheist kittens," replied the girl.
"But, I thought you said they were Christian kittens?" responded the preacher, concerned over the sudden change.
"Oh, they were. But now their eyes are open."

"No, I'm not a religious man. You guys can probably tell. But my uncle Tom - super-religious. Last month, he's walking down the street, he gets mugged and shot in the chest. Now, miraculously -- and I mean miraculously -- he always keeps a bible in his left chest pocket, so he had something to read while he bled to death." -Anthony Jeselnik

https://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgwd4nRFMw1qhq3mmo1_400.png
haha
https://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgx8vsr0Gg1qhrupio1_r1_500.jpg

haha