Entropy: the ability of the universe to follow a path to lowest energy with maximum complexity. The implication that things start simple and end up more chaotic and disorganised. There are several examples, life being one of the classic ones that superficially seem to contradict this law, but in retrospect obeys it completely. The long and the short of it is simply that not enough time has passed to make something as complicated and complex as a god. The universe may eventually form an intelligence of omnipotent power but we have many billions of years to go to get there.

Entropy implies we started simply ie low information (no where near enough for the hypothetical religious entities eg gods, that so many describe on this forum) when in fact the universe gets more complex and in the process handles more information. Religion implies the reverse of this law and is therefore totally false.

Let's Discuss.

Say what??

SimonAndal: Say what??

say yes....

Yes

mkmyers45: Entropy: the ability of the universe to follow a path to lowest energy with maximum complexity. The implication that things start simple and end up more chaotic and disorganised. There are several examples, life being one of the classic ones that superficially seem to contradict this law, but in retrospect obeys it completely. The long and the short of it is simply that not enough time has passed to make something as complicated and complex as a god. The universe may eventually form an intelligence of omnipotent power but we have many billions of years to go to get there.

Entropy implies we started simply ie low information (no where near enough for the hypothetical religious entities eg gods, that so many describe on this forum) when in fact the universe gets more complex and in the process handles more information. Religion implies the reverse of this law and is therefore totally false.

Let's Discuss.

A little learning is a sad and terrible thing. You display gross mis education here. Please its not by force. If these concepts are beyond you, e sha fi le.

Deep Sight:

A little learning is a sad and terrible thing. You display gross mis education here. Please its not by force. If these concepts are beyond you, e sha fi le.

Sir, is it wrong to attempt to understand? The whole analogy wasn't made by me so i brought it up incase someone who sees or doesn't see a correlation can do justice to it.

mkmyers45:

Sir, is it wrong to attempt to understand? The whole analogy wasn't made by me so i brought it up incase someone who sees or doesn't see a correlation can do justice to it.

Oh, ok, i thought you were making a definite assertion.

Deep Sight:

Oh, ok, i thought you were making a definite assertion.

It something i picked up and i think it may be interesting to discuss

This is quite interesting.
I have stated on previous threads that I think energy is the only thing that is ever present in the universe and perhaps beyond it. And that energy oscilates from simple vibrations to more complex vibrations. Most importantly what I posited is that what we call consciusness, sentience and intelligence might simply be just a stage of complexity of energy interactions,as a result of complexity of energy interatctions, rather than being the originators or prime cause of complexity ,as Deepsight and other theists would want us to believe.

In other words, if there is or should be a universal consciousness, then the universe probably evolved into it or is evolving towards it.

mkmyers45: Entropy: the ability of the universe to follow a path to lowest energy with maximum complexity. The implication that things start simple and end up more chaotic and disorganised. There are several examples, life being one of the classic ones that superficially seem to contradict this law, but in retrospect obeys it completely. The long and the short of it is simply that not enough time has passed to make something as complicated and complex as a god. The universe may eventually form an intelligence of omnipotent power but we have many billions of years to go to get there.

Entropy implies we started simply ie low information (no where near enough for the hypothetical religious entities eg gods, that so many describe on this forum) when in fact the universe gets more complex and in the process handles more information. Religion implies the reverse of this law and is therefore totally false.

Let's Discuss.

Would this assertion hold true if God exist outside the universe, that is the universe grand and virtually infinite it may appear to us instead of enveloping God is just a tiny subset of Gods manifestation?

dorox:
Would this assertion hold true if God exist outside the universe, that is the universe grand and virtually infinite it may appear to us instead of enveloping God is just a tiny subset of Gods manifestation?

But first, we have to agree that something exists before we can speculate as to where it may exist.
After searching the universe, If we now have to resort to HIDING god OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE where we clearly will not be able to discern or detect him , then we might as just jettison the whole notion of god.

Why bother! outside the universe, would god not be irrelevant!

How is it possible for an entity so contradictory even to itself exist? Take a look at this article: http://www.rationalresponders.com/philosophical_proof_that_god_is_a_man_made_concept

The way I understand/stood entropy to work was stuff get's more disorganized as time moves on. It's a major issue to some futurists as far the end of the universe is concerned, as it's irreversible. As time goes on, heat dissipates and stretches out, energy scrambles and scrambles and becomes less organized, till gzillions of years from now matter/energy would be more or else useless. Nothing will be able to convert/use it for any good. In essence, the end of the universe. But it seems you're using it in a different context.

Edit: oops we seem to be saying similar stuff. Should have read it properly. I guess I can't see what building an ultimate intelligence (aka a god, with its shrike, anyone?) has to do with this. Random, even it would fall to entropy in the end, would you look at that

wiegraf: The way I understand/stood entropy to work was stuff get's more disorganized as time moves on. It's a major issue to some futurists as far the end of the universe is concerned, as it's irreversible. As time goes on, heat dissipates and stretches out, energy scrambles and scrambles and becomes less organized, till gzillions of years from now matter/energy would be more or else useless. Nothing will be able to convert/use it for any good. In essence, the end of the universe. But it seems you're using it in a different context.

Edit: oops we seem to be saying similar stuff. Should have read it properly. I guess I can't see what building an ultimate intelligence (aka a god, with its shrike, anyone?) has to do with this. Random, even it would fall to entropy in the end, would you look at that

The building of such an intelligent being is a may...and even at now we don't truly have such energy. Well i see the similarities....

plaetton: This is quite interesting.
I have stated on previous threads that I think energy is the only thing that is ever present in the universe and perhaps beyond it. And that energy oscilates from simple vibrations to more complex vibrations. Most importantly what I posited is that what we call consciusness, sentience and intelligence might simply be just a stage of complexity of energy interactions,as a result of complexity of energy interatctions, rather than being the originators or prime cause of complexity ,as Deepsight and other theists would want us to believe.

In other words, if there is or should be a universal consciousness, then the universe probably evolved into it or is evolving towards it.

A very great probability i must say but we may never know can we?

mkmyers45:

The building of such an intelligent being is a may...and even at now we don't truly have such energy. Well i see the similarities....

Ok, so you're just bouncing ideas. On the point platteon makes, I've also wondered why theists believe it more logical for something complex to pop out from nowhere rather than simple to complex.

wiegraf:

Ok, so you're just bouncing ideas. On the point platteon makes, I've also wondered why theists believe it more logical for something complex to pop out from nowhere rather than simple to complex.

Its a discuss for the house as i am not espousing it as certainty...the idea of simple to complex system is more logically as it is most free occurring in nature...

mkmyers45: Entropy: the ability of the universe to follow a path to lowest energy with maximum complexity. The implication that things start simple and end up more chaotic and disorganised. There are several examples, life being one of the classic ones that superficially seem to contradict this law, but in retrospect obeys it completely. The long and the short of it is simply that not enough time has passed to make something as complicated and complex as a god. The universe may eventually form an intelligence of omnipotent power but we have many billions of years to go to get there.

Entropy implies we started simply ie low information (no where near enough for the hypothetical religious entities eg gods, that so many describe on this forum) when in fact the universe gets more complex and in the process handles more information. Religion implies the reverse of this law and is therefore totally false.

Let's Discuss.

entropy ko atrophy ni

buzugee: entropy ko atrophy ni

This early morning?

mkmyers45:

This early morning?

lol you must be in iraq. its afternoon in the saner parts of the world

buzugee: lol you must be in iraq. its afternoon in the saner parts of the world

maybe