Correct me if I am wrong, but it is generally believed , among christians, that salvation through faith in the divinity and sacrifice of Jesus is the guaranteed ticket to eternal life in heaven.

So the order would look something like this:

1. Salvation through faith

2. You live your life of Good works + occasional sin

3. Prayer and Forgiveness removes the sin part and wipes your plate clean each time.

4.You die and then face judgement(though some believe that you have to wait for Jesus to come back before judgement, others believe that judgement is right after death. Take your pick.)

My question is ; If 1-3 are correct, then what is the need for 4? If god forgives our sins through prayer and maybe penance, then what exactly would we be judged for?

"Accept Jesus so that you can be saved" is what we hear all the time. Saved from what,I ask, if judgement is just looming around the corner?

Is it judgement for deeds and accounts of ones life, or, is this judgement about ones belief and faith?
Surely, it cannot be for both, otherwise , there would be contradictions about which of the two, faith or deeds, would carry more weight in devine justice.

Wouldn't this order be logical and sensible?


1. Life of good deeds and sins
2. After death, your deeds and sins are weighed in judgement.
3. Forgiveness for lesser sins and damnation for greater sins
4. Salvation and eternal bliss for those who have been forgiven and hell for those who were not.

In this case, the acceptance and faith in Jesus would serve as A PATH to salvation, rather than the automatic ticket to salvation.

I believe it was Martin Luther, the reformer, who upset the applecart with his emphasis that only faith was the ultimate guarantor of salvation.

My opinion is that he was wrong. He was deluded by his own personal problems which he could not seperate from reality. Although he was instrumental in forcing the reformation of a corrupt catholic church,in the end, he probably inflicted more damage to christianity than he intended.

Your views please.

If you repent of a sin and ask for forgiveness ,your plate get wiped clean. To answer your part 4 question, A christian will not face The white throne judgement . The judgement of the christian is the Judgement seat of Christ

^^^ white throne judgment?

instead, its the christ seat judgment?

what happened to "get away from me, i never knew ye"?
who are the are the people Jesus never new in the above?


it is clear that Muslims are not in this group, and whoever is in it may need to rethink before death.

There will not be a rapture so everyone will die.

Joagbaje: If you repent of a sin and ask for forgiveness ,your plate get wiped clean. To answer your part 4 question, A christian will not face The white throne judgement . The judgement of the christian is the Judgement seat of Christ

White judgement, judgement seat of christ; what do these mean and what are the differences?

Joagbaje: If you repent of a sin and ask for forgiveness ,your plate get wiped clean. To answer your part 4 question, A christian will not face The white throne judgement . The judgement of the christian is the Judgement seat of Christ

Is this "white Judgement" and "Seat of Christ" judgement thing your own creation or lingo to explain the inexplicable?
What is the whole essense of being judged in the end if already, as Christians claim, there is a mechanism for immediate atonement of sin through a belief in Jesus' death and ressurection.
What is then the difference between one who does not recognize Jesus before death and the one that recognizes him before death? They all face judgement? So what exactly will the christian guy be judged for, if it is already established before his death that he had fulfilled all the bible requirement.

Is it wrong for a father to determine which of his children did exactly what he asked them to do?

very poignant questions. this is front page material. MODS YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO