wirinet: What people fail to realize is that Jesus did not intend to set up an organization that meets only on Sundays to worship God and be told how to live their lives by “rulers” and then go home.

Jesus organization was one that lived together and doing public charity works of teaching, preaching and healing. Jesus and his disciples were not after starting a massive church, they were more interested in helping the population lead meaningful lives. Jesus was satisfied with his 12 disciples and only attempted to add one more person.

If Jesus wanted to start a church, he would have said so and set out the organizational structure and a written code.

I Will Build My Church

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18 ).

This is the first of 115 occurrences of ekklesia in the New Testament—three times translated "assembly"; all other times as "church." It is a compound of ek and klesia, thus meaning "out-called," referring specifically to people "called out" from their previous locations to meet together as a body for some purpose. The three times it is translated "assembly" refer to the town meeting in Ephesus (Acts 19:32,39,41). Once it refers to the congregation of Israelites in the wilderness (Acts 7:38 ), leaving 111 times when it refers to a Christian church, or churches.

Of these 111, at least 86 clearly refer to local churches, each meeting as a body in specific times and places. Individual local churches may come and go, but the institution of the local church will continue at least until the return of Christ. In the Bible’s final chapter, after outlining the entire future of the world, Jesus said, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches" (Revelation 22:16). All churches of all times and places, as well as the seven representative churches of Asia (Revelation 2 and 3), which have long since died out as distinct local churches, are thus intended to hear of the world’s prophetic future.

This is the last mention of churches; but the first, as cited in our text, has eternal dimensions, for even the "gates of hell" cannot prevail against it. This church actually will be in heaven itself. "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Hebrews 12:22,23). HMM

For more . . . .

Pastor Kun:

Bros I thought you were an atheist.

Image123: @OP
You forgot to add "God is Omnipotent", "God is Omniscient", "God is Omnipresent", "Bible", "Posting on nairaland" to your list of shocking christian practices and ideas. Such a shallow and insidious thread.
2Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

frosbel:

Modelling certain practices after obsolete Jewish rites is inconsequential and invalid as far as the new convent is concerned.

Our main role model is Christ and we are to model our behaviour and practices after HIM and his life style ALONE.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined[b] to be conformed to the likeness of his Son[/b], that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." - Romans 8:29

frosbel:

You do know that deeper life has included some of these falsehoods in their church , right ?

true2god: Frosbel im really shocked at ur personal attacks on deeper life church. I am an assemblies of God church member @ sabo yaba and i had opportunity to have some of dem as friend and school mates. You may not like dem but they r vry ok pple by all xtain standard. Ok i need u to recommend church for pple on dis forum. Tell me the church or organization pple shuld be attending with reasons.

true2god: We hav to realiz that we r all human, and dat human tendency will always surface in evry area of human endeavour. If we want to criticise pple or structure it will all end in futility. Even the church in the 1st century hav its own problem, some say they r for paul, others say they r for Barnabas while some say they ar for Peter.

Comcerning some doctrinal issues there were variation, some preach against festivities, others see it a no issue. On the issue of circumcision, it is the same, and in this present dispensation it is still the same, variance in belief.

Of course any organization must hav a leadership structure in order to maintain law, order and discpilene and church is not an exception. Even in our homes some children call their father dad, others call daddy, popsy, papa etc its all the same. If a church calls their leader prophet, 'daddy', GO, PAPA, discreet and wise slave, it is not a crime, as long as the importance and essence of leadership is not eroded.

I think we need focus more on the impact the word of God is playin on pple's life dan talkin about frivolities.

frosbel:

I do not hate anyone , please !


Simply put , and as a former deeper life member, they like to state that their doctrines are 100% bible doctrines.

I then asked a question, which is , what about the doctrines of other churches, are they also 100% bible doctrines ?

Tithing for example, is it biblical ? Rapture ? Eternal torment ? immortality of the Soul ?

We keep preaching on SIN , SIN and SIN which is very important but we present a warped view of GOD and the gospel of the Kingdom that many cannot comprehend.

In fact very few examine the scriptures in a studious, methodical and humble manner to confirm if those doctrines are accurate.

I beg to differ, false doctrine is the reason why we have over 30,000 denominations, many of them false.

Pastor AIO: And there is no Amala in the bible, so I really wonder about those so called christians that like to wack amala. I really wonder.

Rich4god:
Hmmm... Frosbel. I thought you said that you are a former catholic... Now, its former deeper life. SMH4U.

Joagbaje: Ministry is of the holygjost ,it doesn't have to be in black and white but the principles are there in the bible

Sweetnecta: ^^^^ comedy central and the uses of cartoons.


@plappville: does paul writing take precedence over what Jesus says? lets see Jesus as son of man, servant and slave of God. His Messenger versus paul saying Jesus is God. which is correct? Jesus couldn't have had a messenger in Paul who is unknown to him especially when Jesus had 11 remaining followers and only predicted there will be an another comforter after him. Is paul that another comforter, otherwise what role did Jesus predict the like of paul to have except wolf in sheep clothing among the followers of Jesus?


this is so untrue considering that he was not a prophet of God, yet began to have more authority than those who saw and followed the prophet of God. unless you will argue that paul is the another comforter?


who is that verse from; Jesus or paul? who are you defending with it; paul?

God said Jesus is His Messenger [as]. Jesus said he is Messenger of God to the children of Israel.

Paul said Jesus is messenger of God to all the world, son and God Himself.

Tell me who is incorrect: God and Jesus who said Jesus is a prophet to the house of Jacob or paul who said Jesus is prophet beyond that and even son as well God?

plappville:

The way you are talking is as if "PAUL" Ordained himself as an Apostle, We know that the Prophet Mohammed which you claim to be true was not in anyway certified by any inspired man. God knows how he does things, If He had called Mohammed, He will not leave him to try to convince people, He will Use someone else to prove Mohammed's call as a true call. The Apostle Pauls case was certified by Christ Himself.

Paul did not volunteer, or choose to take the office he held. You must that each apostle were personally selected by Christ.
If one claimed to be an apostle, when he Christ/Gods calling, he would be a false apostle (see 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Revelation 2:2.

Apostles were specially chosen and called personally by God to be Apostles. (See Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus personally chose 12 men and named them to be apostles.
(See Acts 1:24, When one was chosen to take Judas' place and be numbered among the 12, the Lord pointed out which man He had chosen to fill the office.
[John 15:27; Acts 10:40,41.] Specifically, Paul was personally chosen and called by "Jesus" to be an apostle.You will not deny this as well.

(See Acts 9:15: "Jesus" by himself appeared to Paul (verse 1-9), then told [b]"Ananias"[/b]to teach and baptize him because Paul was "a chosen vessel" to preach Jesus' name to Gentiles, Us today LOLSS.

(See Acts 26:16, "Jesus" said that He had appeared to Paul to make him a minister and witness of what he had seen. [Acts 22:14,15]
Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:1 - So, Paul himself, repeatedly affirmed in his letters that he had been "called to be an apostle," not by men, but by Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1

Paul's claim to be inspired and a faithful teacher was also confirmed by many other inspired men.
(See Acts 9:15 (26:16; 22:14,15), Luke records that Jesus Himself endorsed Paul as a chosen vessel to preach His name.

(2 Peter 3:15,16) Peter classed Paul's writings along with other Scripture. This endorses Paul's writings as truth.

If you claim to recognise Jesus as true, then you should also recognise his chosen ones/apostles as true.

@OP, sorry for diverting ur thread, this my Muslim broda like to argue alot hehehee!

frosbel:


Don't worry but you are on point.

Muhammad is a totally different matter, we have overflogged his case in hundreds of articles

Jesus Christ is LORD , AMEN.

plappville:

WAOOOOO, HOW FAST YOU ARE TO REPLY

Joagbaje: Ministry is of the holygjost ,it doesn't have to be in black and white but the principles are there in the bible

plappville:

The way you are talking is as if "PAUL" Ordained himself as an Apostle, We know that the Prophet Mohammed which you claim to be true was not in anyway certified by any inspired man. God knows how he does things, If He had called Mohammed, He will not leave him to try to convince people, He will Use someone else to prove Mohammed's call as a true call. The Apostle Pauls case was certified by Christ Himself.

Paul did not volunteer, or choose to take the office he held. I want you to know that each Apostle were personally selected by Christ.
If one claimed to be an apostle, when he Christ/Gods calling, he would be a false apostle (see 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Revelation 2:2.

Apostles were specially chosen and called personally by God to be Apostles. (See Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus personally chose 12 men and named them to be apostles.
(See Acts 1:24, When one was chosen to take Judas' place and be numbered among the 12, the Lord pointed out which man He had chosen to fill the office.
[John 15:27; Acts 10:40,41.] Specifically, Paul was personally chosen and called by "Jesus" to be an apostle.You will not deny this as well.

(See Acts 9:15: "Jesus" by himself appeared to Paul (verse 1-9), then told [b]"Ananias"[/b]to teach and baptize him because Paul was "a chosen vessel" to preach Jesus' name to Gentiles, Us today LOLSS.

(See Acts 26:16, "Jesus" said that He had appeared to Paul to make him a minister and witness of what he had seen. [Acts 22:14,15]
Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:1 - So, Paul himself, repeatedly affirmed in his letters that he had been "called to be an apostle," not by men, but by Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1

Paul's claim to be inspired and a faithful teacher was also confirmed by many other inspired men.
(See Acts 9:15 (26:16; 22:14,15), Luke records that Jesus Himself endorsed Paul as a chosen vessel to preach His name.

(2 Peter 3:15,16) Peter classed Paul's writings along with other Scripture. This endorses Paul's writings as truth.

If you claim to recognise Jesus as true, then you should also recognise his chosen ones/apostles as true.

@OP, sorry for diverting ur thread, this my Muslim broda like to argue alot hehehee!

frosbel:

I am in the office and constantly check Nairaland to relief stress

I work in IT, so it can get mad and hectic sometimes, Nairaland is my medicine for stress !

plappville:

Are you serious? don't you think its dangerious for ur Health/Family, i mean, why should NL be ur stress medicine ? na wa ooo i dey laugh hereeeeeee !!!

truthislight:

what is wrong with Frosbel statment?

truthislight: Dont you want him to make a decent living?

truthislight: Must every one live on tith money?

Pastor AIO: And there is no Amala in the bible, so I really wonder about those so called christians that like to wack amala. I really wonder.

truthislight:

^^^^

lies!

The spirit is to be tested by the scripture whether it is of God or of the Devil.

wirinet: Pastor Olaadegun, I thought you people hate the Catholic so much, and now you end up using their argument to support your argument for church, I hope you accept their argument for pope also as they say peter was the first pope.

Believe me the bible can be translated and twisted to mean anything the person doing the translation wants, remember the original copies have not been found, so what we have are copies of copies of translations of translations. try watching an English subtitle of a yoruba movie, you will most times be unable to correlate what is being translated to what is being said.

Obviously the verse you quoted above cannot mean that peter should build a church and be the head. His name was already peter before he was called peter(rock) by Jesus, so it shows some manipulation by the translators. And besides peter never build any building call church and claim to be the only access to Jesus.

The person that set up churches and its organizational structure was paul and not peter.

OLAADEGBU:

This is a good point that many Calvinists fail to see.