Genesis 27:19 And Jacob said unto his father, I [am] Esau thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

The scripture above clearly shows that Jacob lied to his Father to receive the blessing that was meant for his brother. And according to the scripture below, all liars would perish in the lake of fire!

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

However, while reading the Bible I came accross the passages written below, giving another definition to who a liar is. My question now is, which of these liars is Revelation 21:8 referring to? Is it Jacob who lied to his Father to receive his brother's blessing (Genesis 27:19) or the unbelievers who deny Jesus & His Father as clearly stated in the passages below (1John 2:22-24)?

1John 2:22-24 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Your inputs on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

seriallink: Genesis 27:19 And Jacob said unto his father, I [am] Esau thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

The scripture above clearly shows that Jacob lied to his Father to receive the blessing that was meant for his brother. And according to the scripture below, all liars would perish in the lake of fire!

The case of Jacob was destined to happen...remember in

Genesis 25:23.  And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Genesis 27:6-7. And Rebekah spake unto Jacob her son, saying, Behold, I heard thy father speak unto Esau thy brother, saying, 7 Bring me venison, and make me savoury meat, that I may eat, and bless thee before the Lord before my death..

A blessing in the presence of the Lord would be irrevocable, and if given to Esau, Jacob would never receive it.

Genesis 27:8-10. 8 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to that which I command thee. 9 Go now to the flock, and fetch me from thence two good kids of the goats; and I will make them savoury meat for thy father, such as he loveth: 10 And thou shalt bring it to thy father, that he may eat, and that he may bless thee before his death.

Most people point to this episode in Jacob’s life and label him a deceiver and a liar for the rest of his life, when in fact he lived a life of honesty and righteousness.

Most of us would not like a single moment of weakness to define our entire lives. The problem, of course, is that he did lie here, even associating God’s name with a lie.

Genesis 27:20. And Isaac said unto his son, How is it that thou hast found it so quickly, my son? And he said, Because the Lord thy God brought it to me.

But why did the Lord not rebuke Jacob and withhold His blessing from him? Or, even after Isaac had blessed him, why did the Lord later confirm the blessing...

Genesis 28:13-15.  And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; 14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

It seems that the only way to understand this situation is to conclude that even though the way in which Jacob and Rebekah went about obtaining the blessing from Isaac was wrong, the sin of Isaac and Esau was greater.

The Lord does not approve of lying, and Jacob and Rebekah knew it. They were sensitive and spiritual people, but they had decided that, as bad as deception might be in the sight of the Lord, it had become necessary in this case in order to prevent a greater sin, that of conveying the most holy of God’s promises to a man who neither wanted it nor would honor it.

You should also note that Rebekah had already received the revelation from the Lord that the older would serve the younger. Here, then, Rebekah needed to trust that in the Lord’s timing Jacob would receive the patriarchal blessing.

But because of a lack of faith she feels that she must take matters into her own hands because it seemed that nothing could stop Isaac.

seriallink: Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

True!

seriallink: However, while reading the Bible I came accross the passages written below, giving another definition to who a liar is. My question now is, which of these liars is Revelation 21:8 referring to? Is it Jacob who lied to his Father to receive his brother's blessing (Genesis 27:19) or the unbelievers who deny Jesus & His Father as clearly stated in the passages below (1John 2:22-24)?

1John 2:22-24 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Your inputs on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Like I stated earlier, Jacob's case was different. Why? Because he was fulfilling God's plan.

A typical example lies that came with a blessing, was during the birth of moses, the Hebrew midwives deliberately disobeyed Pharaoh and lied to him.

Why? Because they feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do (Exodus 1:15-16 and 22). To do otherwise would have resulted in the deaths of countless Hebrew boys.

Did God punish these midwives for lying? No, God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own (Exodus 1:20-21).

Another example of God’s blessing on a lie was in the life of Rehab. She and her family and all that belonged to her were saved because she hid two Israelite spies and lied about it to the king of Jericho (Joshua 2:4-7 and 6:25).

There are a number of other instances in the Bible in which godly men, in order to accomplish the will of God and to glorify Him, had to break another of His commandments.

These are rare exceptions and can only be justified in very special and unusual circumstances as we have here with Isaac and the patriarchal blessing. Furthermore, the people in these examples never gain a financial advantage for themselves.

In fact, Rahab and the Hebrew midwives risked their lives because of the lies they told.

Similarly, Jacob and Rebekah, in order to do what they thought was necessary to accomplish God’s will, were willing to risk the wrath and hatred of their own loved ones, and Jacob even to risk his life at the hands of his angry brother. Their action was hardly for any financial advantage. Because Jacob was righteous, he cared about the spiritual ramifications of the blessing.

So comparing this cases to the passages you posted is a different ball game entirely.

If you lie, you'll definitely have no place in the kingdom of God...but if the lie comes as a result of a prophecy made in your life, then all measures would be adopted to make it come to pass even it means lying.

See the case of the midwives and rahab again.

Hope I answered your question...

^^^@CrazyMan,

Thanks for your post & explantions. But, what I understand in 1John 2:22-24 is that a LIAR is one who denies Jesus Christ & His Father; so, is Revelation 21:8 referring to normal liars (dishonest or deceitful people) or those who deny Jesus Christ and his father or both?

I understand and agree that a deceitful & dishonest person is a liar.

But 1John 2:22-24 referred to unbelievers and/or people who deny Christ as liars too.

So which of these liars is Revelation 21:8 referring to? Is it both? That's all I want to understand! Thanks

seriallink: ^^^@CrazyMan,

Thanks for your post & explantions. But, what I understand in 1John 2:22-24 is that a LIAR is one who denies Jesus Christ & His Father; so, is Revelation 21:8 referring to normal liars (dishonest or deceitful people) or those who deny Jesus Christ and his father or both?

1 John 2:22-24.  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Any one who denies christ is a liar...

seriallink: I understand and agree that a deceitful & dishonest person is a liar.

That's also true.

seriallink: But 1John 2:22-24 referred to unbelievers and/or people who deny Christ as liars too.

Yes because for you to deny christ, you must be a anti-christ. And if I can remember correctly, lies are one of the characteristics of the anti christ. (Revelations 13) he would decieve many...

Decit and lies share the same meaning...so rererring to people who deny christ as liars isn't a controversial statement.

seriallink: So which of these liars is Revelation 21:8 referring to? Is it both? That's all I want to understand! Thanks

Yup its both....a liar is a liar.

GREAT THREAD AND NICE EXPOSITION. I ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT THOSE LIL WHITE LIES TOO. SURELY THEY ARE TOO NEGLIGIBLE TO COUNT. YOU HAVE BROUGHT OUT THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD LIAR BY PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT. KUDOS TO YOU BRAH

THIS IS FRONTPAGE MATERIAL.

IN THE BIBLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT SO MANY THINGS ARE NOT WHAT PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE. WORDS HAD DIFFERENT MEANING BACK IN THOSE DAYS. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES. ANOTHER WORD IS 'VIRGIN'. YOU WILL GET TO FIND OUT THAT VIRGIN MEANS 'UNWED WOMAN', WHICH AS USED IN REVELATIONS 14 VS 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. IN THAT VERSE THOSE MEN BEING VIRGINS MEANS THEY ARE 'UNWED'. THEY HAVE NOT MARRIED THEMSELVES TO IDOLS. THEY ARE VIRGINS. AND THE WOMEN IN THAT VERSE MEANS 'IDOLS'

@CrazyMan thanks again for your view and the explanation you put up there. I'd like to know other people's view too, because, there are unbelievers who feel they are not dishonest and deceitful & to them, they 're not liars! Same way, there are believers who might use small white lies to achieve what they want believing that it won't lead to eternal damnation!

obadiah777: GREAT THREAD AND NICE EXPOSITION. I ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT THOSE LIL WHITE LIES TOO. SURELY THEY ARE TOO NEGLIGIBLE TO COUNT. YOU HAVE BROUGHT OUT THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD LIAR BY PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT. KUDOS TO YOU BRAH

THIS IS FRONTPAGE MATERIAL.

@Buzugee, Thanks mayne! I want to understand these things you know! Your contribution would be appreciated. Morning!

seriallink: @CrazyMan thanks again for your view and the explanation you put up there. I'd like to know other people's view too, because, there are unbelievers who feel they are not dishonest and deceitful & to them, they 're not liars! Same way, there are believers who might use small white lies to achieve what they want believing that it won't lead them to eternal damnation!



@Buzugee, Thanks mayne! I want to understand these things you know! Your contribution would be appreciated. Morning!

YOU DONT NEED ANY CONTRIBUTION. YOU ALREADY NAILED IT. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THIS AFRICAN AMERICAN STREET PREACHER I KNEW. THIS IS A DEVOUT MAN WHO HAS DIVORCED HIS LIFE IN THIS WORLD AND IS 100 PERCENT LIVING IN THE LORD. I USED TO GET BAFFLED EVERYTIME THIS DEVOUT PIOUS MAN SAYS STUFF LIKE 'SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO TELL LITTLE WHITE LIES' TO YOUR WIFE OR YOUR KIDS OR ANYONE TO GET OUT OF SITUATIONS. THIS THREAD FINALLY BRINGS IT HOME. LYING MEANS SOMETHING ELSE AND HE KNEW IT. LIKE I SAID THIS DUDE CAN QUOTE THE WHOLE BIBLE WITHOUT LOOKING AT IT FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION.

CRAZYMAN I HAIL OOOOOOOOOOOOO
EXCELLENT JOB SERIALLINK

obadiah777: YOU DONT NEED ANY CONTRIBUTION. YOU ALREADY NAILED IT. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THIS AFRICAN AMERICAN STREET PREACHER I KNEW. THIS IS A DEVOUT MAN WHO HAS DIVORCED HIS LIFE IN THIS WORLD AND IS 100 PERCENT LIVING IN THE LORD. I USED TO GET BAFFLED EVERYTIME THIS DEVOUT PIOUS MAN SAYS STUFF LIKE 'SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO TELL LITTLE WHITE LIES' TO YOUR WIFE OR YOUR KIDS OR ANYONE TO GET OUT OF SITUATIONS. THIS THREAD FINALLY BRINGS IT HOME. LYING MEANS SOMETHING ELSE AND HE KNEW IT. LIKE I SAID THIS DUDE CAN QUOTE THE WHOLE BIBLE WITHOUT LOOKING AT IT FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION.

CRAZYMAN I HAIL OOOOOOOOOOOOO
EXCELLENT JOB SERIALLINK

Yeah, you are very much correct brah! I now understand why Jesus said:

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

If one lie to protect himself/herself from danger, I don't think it's a sin! Liars are those who denies Jesus Christ & Yahweh as stated in 1John2:22-24~!

seriallink:


Yeah, you are very much correct brah! I now understand why Jesus said:

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

If one lie to protect himself/herself from danger, I don't think it's a sin! Liars are those who deny Jesus Christ & Yahweh as stated in 1John2:22-24~!

EXACTLY. WHEN ABRAHAM WENT INTO A TOWN OF HO-RNY AND LECHEROUS AND VIOLENT MEN, HE ALWAYS TOLD THEM SARAH WAS NOT HIS WIFE SO THEY WOULDNT KILL HIM. HE DID IT FOR SELF PRESERVATION. HE WAS BEING AS CUNNING AS A SERPENT.

FURTHERMORE AFTER VIEWING THIS YOUR TOPIC I HAVE GONE INTO MANY VERSES WITH THE WORD LYING IN IT. THE CONCLUSION I HAVE COME TO IS THAT...THE WORD OF GOD IS CALLED 'THE TRUTH'. SO GOING AGAINST THE TRUTH IS THE 'LYING' THAT IS OPPOSED IN THE BIBLE. ANYONE WHO GOES AGAINST THE TRUTH IS A LIAR. IT HAS TO BE IN CONTEXT WITH THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE 'AN THEIST IS A LIAR'. HE GOES AGAINST THE TRUTH.

If you ask me, i would say anyone who lies is in danger of been thrown into the lake of fire unless d person confesses his sin and repents frm lies. Lying is a sin no matter how small or big even jacob sinned at that point bt i believe he realised later.

Give us a proof of the existence of this lake of fire.

nne3870: If you ask me, i would say anyone who lies is in danger of been thrown into the lake of fire unless d person confesses his sin and repents frm lies. Lying is a sin no matter how small or big even jacob sinned at that point bt i believe he realised later.

Thanks for your contribution! BTW, no one is saying lying is good or not a sin. This is what I what to understand:

The scripture explained in the book of 1John 2:22-24 that a is LIAR one who denies that Jesus is not the Christ, an Anti-Christ!. Being dishonest or deceitful is quiet different from what was explained there, which was why I created this thread in the first place.

Read the passage below carefully;

1 John 2:22-24. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let
that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the
beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Jacob's case wasn't what the passage above explained as being a liar. So, what I want to know is, between Jacob's case and those whom the scripture referred to as liars (In 1John 2:22-24), which is the bible referring to in Revelation 21:8? Is it those who deny Christ or those who lied like Jacob did or both?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable,
and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and
brimstone: which is the second death.

Horus: Give us a proof of the existence of this lake of fire.

Oh you want proof? Lol, you do not believe God exist, so why should I give you proof for lake of fire?

If you need proof, start by admitting that God exist!

seriallink:

Oh you want proof? Lol, you do not believe God exist, so why should I give you proof for lake of fire?

If you need proof, start by admitting that God exist!

Oh so you mean that it is your "god" who created this lake of fire out of compassion?

Horus:

Oh so you mean that it is your "god" who created this lake of fire out of compassion?

Yeah, God created hell for stiff-necked heathens like you guys! Better repent now before it's too late

seriallink:

Yeah, God created hell for stiff-necked heathens like you guys! Better repent now before it's too late

Brrrrhh!!! I am scared, Brrrrhh!!! I am shaking in fear.

Horus:

Brrrrhh!!! I am scared, Brrrrhh!!! I am shaking in fear.

Just acknowledge your creator and worship Him so you can inherit eternal life. He created you with free will, so you have the power to make a choice! I advise you choose wisely~!

Horus: Give us a proof of the existence of this lake of fire.

Read the original post very well you will see the proof. Also read matt 5:22.