*whistles* ROUND 3!!!FIGHT!!!...lolz...
sometimes, clients can be so frustrating. All I've to say is that we shud not let dis degenerate into name-calling or insults of any such. Let's all try to be civilized in our post approach, U charge less amount; good for U, U charge high amount; good for U too. All I know is that no client will come asking U for a php/mysql, jsp/mysql, aspx/mysql at rates unimaginable. Like I said in my recent post, know Ur Onions...Moreover, shud we not be talkin bout Development instead of design?

Slyr0x:

Not surprised at your kinda mentality. .

What do we expect from a designer whose portfolio website osamediasolutions.com expired since 2012-12-19.

Says so much about you. .

SMH

Thank you very much mr too no, even before this site expired we have been trying to work things out up till now, its non of your business, its between we and the webhosting company, when we sort our selfs out, everything will be okay soon, so if u like go nack ur head for wall, if any body comes for job, and the person say na 10k him get self, i go build d website for them, how e take concern una big head if i dey charge my client small money.....na greediness naim go kill una.

Slyr0x:

A smart developer would rather budget for 1 site a month (Or 2 at most), charge high for that 1 site(relax 1 week of the month) than do 10 low-priced sites and never have time for himself.

If after going to school to do what you are doing, paid school fees, paid for office accommodation, pay for fuel and you feel 20k/site is YOUR WORTH, then I have absolutely NOTHING against you.

No a smart developer will adapt to his environment and do what it takes to pay said bills.

oche_ejemb:

No a smart developer will adapt to his environment and do what it takes to pay said bills.

abeg help me tell him to wise up.

kambo: i understand and sympathize with the poster's view point. As a matter of fact the prize should be set to much higher amounts because it will command respect from clients . In the corporate world low prices are only offered because the buyers number in millions. If microsoft can charge 5k dollars for a software why shouldnt a professional charge well. Despite the large number of lawyers, accountants, architects , surgeons in the country none of them charge beggarly prices instead of bending over to accomodate all comers the fix and continuosly upwardly review their prices . And clients hold them in high esteem people want their children to study law medicine surgery why? Partly because of the impressive fees this folks command. When an indian charges close to nothing who is gains? Who is the baboon? The same client that pays 20k for a website doesnt mind paying 1m+ a year in private school fees for their wards and they lament with pride about how high the fees are . If private schools became cheap dyu think society will respect them or the rich will patronise them? Nothing is as bad as exuding poverty mindedness. Indians are regarded as beggars because of their pricing. The western world has no respect for them, they ment to be used and that's what the has been doing. Indians will continue to hav this reputation as long as they come across as grovelly and cheap. Guys grow up the poster is right, but the unionization thing is way of it will stiffle creativity. People buy commodities but save their money for luxuries. Despite the abundance why hasnt iphones ipads blackberrys laptops become ultra cheap because if their prices fall below a certain level they'll become commoditized and lose their appeal. Web masters and I.T folks in niaja hav sold themselves short . It's a raw deal.

Your points are typically Nigerian way of reasoning. let be break down your useless post

kambo: If microsoft can charge 5k dollars for a software why shouldnt a professional charge well.

Microsoft is note canvasing for all the IT Companies to charge minimum for their software. they do their thing and charge, if you like purchase if your don't like leave.

kambo: Despite the large number of lawyers, accountants, architects , surgeons in the country none of them charge beggarly prices instead of bending over to accomodate all comers the fix and continuosly upwardly review their prices .

Last time i know there is no fixed charge for lawyers, accountants, architects, surgeons. but in terms of wages there is an industry standard. The amount being charged by a certain lawyer to appear in court on your behalf varies with lawyers.

kambo: And clients hold them in high esteem people want their children to study law medicine surgery why? Partly because of the impressive fees this folks command.

People in some professions are regarded in high esteem because believe it is not easy to scale all the requirements

kambo: If private schools became cheap dyu think society will respect them or the rich will patronise them?

Is the private schools asking/coercing other private schools to charge high fees?

kambo: Indians are regarded as beggars because of their pricing. The western world has no respect for them, they ment to be used and that's what the has been doing. Indians will continue to hav this reputation as long as they come across as grovelly and cheap.

The western world you mentioned pays Nigerians paid less than the same Indians you claim they see as cheap. Additionally Indians are supervisors/asst. managers over their Nigerian counterparts right here in Nigeria.

kambo: Despite the abundance why hasnt iphones ipads blackberrys laptops become ultra cheap because if their prices fall below a certain level they'll become commoditized and lose their appeal.

Are you comparing Iphones, ipads, blackberry and laptops to web design? Let forget about that and assume it's comparable, don't other phones exist or is iphone(apple) asking all smart phone manufacturers to sell at a certain minimum price?

Which ever school you attended, better go and ask for a refund.

rastle: In the southwestern part of Nigeria, I always notice the passion on forming an association or enforcing people to be a memberof a particular group,however,in other parts of Nigeria(north especially) you don't have biz with your competitors,do what you can do and charge whatever you feel is profitable for you,it is left for you to convince your client on why you are to charge "how much".it may interest you to know that it is practically impossible to have a unique price for such biz, so let's end d argument.

god bless you,I love your observation about unions in southwest Nigeria,the thing is killing business in the society,its not encouraging creativity,and values,also its another form of corruption,you can imagine who will be incharge of the funds raised through registration of new members?the excos,headed by the chairman or president of the webmasters association the guy will simply stop designing and focus on registration of new members.

Slyr0x:

A smart developer would rather budget for 1 site a month (Or 2 at most), charge high for that 1 site(relax 1 week of the month) than do 10 low-priced sites and never have time for himself.

If after going to school to do what you are doing, paid school fees, paid for office accommodation, pay for fuel and you feel 20k/site is YOUR WORTH, then I have absolutely NOTHING against you.

Your situation is not the same as everyone out there. Kindly remember that with some common sense when next you want to spew such inanity in a public forum.

A very good developer will not be having headaches over someone that is charging 5,000 to design a website.

If you are worried that you are not getting enough jobs because some people are offering lower prices then you need to upgrade yourself

SMH… So many unnecessary harsh words flying here.

texazzpete:

Your situation is not the same as everyone out there. Kindly remember that with some common sense when next you want to spew such inanity in a public forum.

This is a public forum and you can constructively argue without engaging in name-calling.

As such, I'll cease all response to this thread till you learn some common courtesy.

Cheers

soloqy: @funky medina

Gtbank website and a host of other Big multinationals are based on open source CMS like joomla but I hope you are aware that there is nothing like "cut and paste" in those designs and the result?

No be me talk cut & past!!

funky medina:
No be me talk cut & past!!

What am trying to say is that though those sites are based on open source like Joomla and Drupal, extensive work had to be done by professionals to get that look and feel and to make the CMS function as the *paying* company wants it to. So though its Joomla/Drupal, the result you see for example,in the gtbank. com website, is not what can be achieved by just having the *cut and paste* skills.

soloqy:

What am trying to say is that though those sites are based on open source like Joomla and Drupal, extensive work had to be done by professionals to get that look and feel and to make the CMS function as the *paying* company wants it to. So though its Joomla/Drupal, the result you see for example,in the gtb. com website, is not what can be achieved by just having the *cut and paste* skills.

You are making my point for me. Take a template and add the magic that you have to it. That will set you apart, why bash people using wordpress and so forth and complaining about what another person charges. CNN.com is based on wordpress as well. There is no medal for suffering to build a site from scratch when you can customize a template as much as you want. Only in nigeria you want to suffer and brag about hand codding from scrath and want to charge one million in 2013, unless you get Aso rock contracts so my view is Adapt or Die! Move to more advanced things if your so damn good leave the market for us "advanced web admins" cause we know what we are doing
I did a site for 200 Canadian dollars ,come and arrest me !! that site was up and running in 5hrs, highly customized how?
..cause i have been doing this for a while,
.. there is no problem or idea you have that you will not get a solution for from a forum on the web
..unlike our nigerian designers and developers, oyibos give information freely and designers and developers are willing to help and not charge a fee to tell you how to correct a coding error you made!
...open source open source , that is your worst enemy and its not my fault, it is here to stay.
if better broadband land naija and everyone knows they can install wordpress themselves and host with host gator for peanuts no be dis one you go dey talk , kids will be doing it free for fun

^^ am begining to get unconfortable with ur comments.

I think it would do u so well if you can get a bill board all over Nigeria to let Nigerians know they dont need any webmaster for any website design because CMS has come to stay and that they can just simply host their site with host gator or go daddy.

Dont be uncomfortable. With nigerian situations web designers still have work to do. Thank God for bad govt

^^^^^ @Funky Medina

Dont start quarreling bro..

Check my first three posts, I was against the union thing as well as having a fixed price for webdesign.

Dont know where you are getting the vibes that am against Open source from. I use Open source for most of my work.

Dont care if you do a site for 5 dollars, it has nothing to do with me. Its your own issue.

My own stand(If you cared to read) was always to place a balance. For instance, you say CNN uses WordPress but am sure you can appreciate the extent of customization that was put into it and the most likely, resultant fees that it would incur.

Open source can not be my enemy, its my great friend and that's why I pointed out that the nice GTBANK site is based off Joomla.

The customizations that the likes of CNN and GTBank did to their respective CMSs, I can assure you, are in functionality and usability features. They most definitely didnt go on the web and get a template that 10 million other websites in the world would be using.

If a web designer, developer, or whatever cannot personally design and conceptualize a site structure, then by no means, should he tag himself with that title.

Am all for customizations, but what you see with most "web designers" in Nigeria, is people just plugging web templates from the internet and uploading(as is) for a client, without even as much as a background change.
Thats exactly why they can charge N11, 500 for a website, lol. When you take time to conceptualize, plan and build, you would feel differently. But thats by the way, and thats why I said at the beginning that there are different types of sites and that by no means can everyone charge the same thing.

By the way, I still interface with reputable web agencies abroad and when you ask for a quote for a website that has all the features that you would expect from CMSs like Wordpress and Joomla, you would definitely get the *Quote*/bill(whether they are going to use opensource cms for you or not)..

I no quarell o, i am enjoying myself . Your talking about 11k , go to webmaster section and about 4 posts down from this post, someone called "miracle" is offering webdesign for FREE to anyone hahahhaha I am a prophet !!!!

Please o, cnn.com itself does not use wordpress, it's the sub-blogs like staff blogs etc such as http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/ for christiane amanpour that uses wordpress, such blogs and the GTbank Joomla site though powered by CMS cannot be categorized as cut and paste by any stretch of the imagination!!! Nobody is against cut and paste or the use of CMS for that matter, personally am concerned about the 20k pricing!

oandoplc.com is powered by wordress, it wasn't done for 20k,
inecnigeria.org is also powered by wordpress, Am pretty sure you can see that it's not 20k work.

Throw away the sentiment and guilt (if applicable) and listen to what I am saying, you might just find some sense in it! Why design 10 sites a month to earn what I earn with just 2 sites and plenty of rest?

funky medina: I no quarell o, i am enjoying myself . Your talking about 11k , go to webmaster section and about 4 posts down from this post, someone called "miracle" is offering webdesign for FREE to anyone hahahhaha I am a prophet !!!!

Free is even good. Free is better than someone charging a fee because of his/her paucity of skills or talent . I can create a site free for someone but it would be for a cogent reason. And I will have it at the back of my mind that though am doing it for free, the standard must remain.

Its different from people who are charging some amount because no one would ask them to do a job ordinarily. Such people get these job offers from people who want to test the waters because the amount is what they can afford to lose. I can conveniently tell you that most often than not, those people(if its serious businesses) start quietly looking for better skilled individuals to upgrade their sites after a little while(Now with hindsight) .

@munky medina

I dont want to reveal any details abt me, or what project am focusin on this first quarter.

Keep using CMS that u dont know how it was built and keep charging 10k for all ur works. Time will tell. U dont need to trouble urself to learn any programin langwaGi owkay, just focus on CMS. Am sure wit people like u in govt, Nigeria wld hav to depend on google for Nigerian map instead of the troubles of her own sat.

Think again.

*solid*:
@munky medina

I dont want to reveal any details abt me, or what project am focusin on this first quarter.

Keep using CMS that u dont know how it was built and keep charging 10k for all ur works. Time will tell. U dont need to trouble urself to learn any programin langwaGi owkay, just focus on CMS. Am sure wit people like u in govt, Nigeria wld hav to depend on google for Nigerian map instead of the troubles of her own sat.

Thinkin again.

who is munky medina? abi u dey take style dey call me monkey?

q

I'm not in support of a union nor a fixed price for basic designs. Charge whateva u like buh make sure you do a good job.

The reason why Google is the ish now and yahoo relegated is because of innovations. You can never be innovative if all you do is copy and paste.

I use wordpress too buh I make sure I create my themes and not just download random themes and upload. Moving into creating my own wordpress plugins too so I can av better control

I guess itz time for me to drop my view regarding the issue, some of the websites I did for my clients are CMS, I developed the CMS frameworks myself, but after some years I reviewed what's happening in the world of web designing, Open source is here to stay whether I like it or not, I then Decided to go into Joomla and later Wordpress. I started by developing my own themes, not any longer, I buy themes now, customize them to look unique, develop the needed plugin into it and offer my clients one month SEO service. What are we saying, that has not change the price I charge, my job speaks for me, if you want to hire me then be ready to pay for my services, so if any one decides that he wants to take 10-49K for a job let him be. I'm not really into web designing again, I love Development, SEO, Digital Media Marketing, need my services, let's talk.

so becos cms don tanda gidigba piple nor go bother learn basics again (HTML,CSS,JAVASCRIPT)and a host of others.. na wa oo...nor b dia fault

Time go tell wen briz go blow fowl yansh go open.. everybody just won make moni..we go soon know quacks from professional..

@funkymedina, pls I take baba God beg U. U seem to be the arrowhead for these 10k guys and I absolutely have nothing against that or the use of CMSes, but pls help tell the guys on ur syd to stop the name-calling ish so we can have a healthy forum. This thread was created to air matured views from us and I believe for U to be a coder, U shud be smart and hence matured. Say ur mind without hacking anyone down. I like the way ur posts are constructed and we'll be doin ourselves a world of good if we can all DISCUSS[/] and not [b]INSULT.

53cur3m0d3: @funkymedina, pls I take baba God beg U. U seem to be the arrowhead for these 10k guys and I absolutely have nothing against that or the use of CMSes, but pls help tell the guys on ur syd to stop the name-calling ish so we can have a healthy forum. This thread was created to air matured views from us and I believe for U to be a coder, U shud be smart and hence matured. Say ur mind without hacking anyone down. I like the way ur posts are constructed and we'll be doin ourselves a world of good if we can all DISCUSS[/] and not [b]INSULT.

I agree with you , my intention was never to spearhead anything I am only giving my views. So as a new apponinted union leader , I take God beg una 10k people oo , no insulting .

I agree that this is a free market but i am in support of having a union. We really need a union to sanitize the industry. It's mostly the newbies that charge ridiculously and they have no idea abt what it takes.

Even if u use CMS doesn't mean u shd charge 10k. What abt d internet connection, time spent "copying and pasting" and afta sales support. 10k for a whole 365days job? How many sites do you have to do to be able to pay your own personal bills not to talk of other business and overhead costs.
I have personally walked away from some jobs because of this. When do we start this association. What can i do to help. Let's start and make 2013 better.

^^^^^^^^^

No association. Its simply unthinkable for this line of work. Can work with petty traders but not this.

sleeping!!!!! if una don fight finish, plz someone should wake me up, cos i have 5pages static website to build for a furniture company for a give away fee of 12,500, 10k for workmanship, 2k5 for hosting.