laykhorn:
I'll take that in good faith but when nxt you come across my username, dont EVER interfere when in such discussions except if they were directed to you... Now 2buff! Do u stil mind to answer my question?

Billyonaire:

Why would anyone study computer science or computer engineering at this age and time. These knowledge are all over the internet. I think the problem is that people study in order to work for other people, when you start studying courses because you wanna use it for personal financial growth then you will know better. How long can one work for anyone, anyfirm anyway. It pays to think outside the box.

2buff:

I think what Wallie meant was different when he said industry.

The "software industry" (Industry X) is nothing but a tool that serves other prominent industries (Industry Y...e.g oil and gas, Energy, Healthcare, etc).
Seeing as X is easily outsourced, it is better to be more aligned and well versed in Y, so you are not expendible.

It is good to be true to your passion and start out with X so you are not totally lost (like a core business guy), but you would be doing yourself all kinds of favors if you 'step up' to Y.
By doing so, you may find yourself in more of an advantage than the simple-minded "business guy" if you play your cards right.
That is the stuff Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and The FaceBook guy (I forget his name) are made of.

When a business-minded TECHY (techie meaning anything practical, not just software) is at the helm of most organizations, that organization is in a better position to succeed.
E.g Less likely to make stupid promises to clients that really can't be done because you have an accurate idea already how long things will take, hence risking bad relations with the client etc.

AjanleKoko:

I'd differ on the bolded.
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and the Facebook Guy are not necessarily businessmen-coders.
They're all creators. None of them have MBAs, and all of them didn't finish college.

Omerian Consult:

Embedded Systems (ES)is the future! It's all about digitalizing everything around us. It cuts across every field of life. And u can digitize anything - door, toothbrush, even your cloth. An ES is any device into which a programmed IC (brain) has been put. You have sure seen d migration to digital fuel pumps. Everything around us will soon be ES with web and mobile support.

I was once with an ES firm as a Business Development Manager. We did about 60 very unique projects.
ES experts in d house should contact me as I run a Business Consulting firm that seeks, among other things, to turn IT guys to technopreneurs.
Oludayo 08132232989, 08188360168

kambo: hmm... Thoughtful. I once read some write up sometime ago along the same lines. The essay generatd a flame war wth respondents affirming/disaffirmg tht software dev is a no future occupation. Theyre actually two sides to this issue. One side considers software dev as a calling,and decampment into management as treacherous infidelity. Like the man in your example, management may pay more (and management frwns on older employees still doing "grunt work" aka programming ) but if these folks really had their way programming wud be it. The other side, are more pragmatic, or more enterprenueral . They'll ditch programming for the next big thing (higher pay perks status) . To them its all abt wats in it for me?. Truth is it depends on ones priorities, financial incentives, job prospects, technical depth and so on. In a company that creates mundane typical software in an equally typical industry, that services a blase market innovation and research may b unwelcome the devs there will hav to move over to the busness side to hold down their jobs. This kind of companies are rife. On ther hand, those who work in the truly tech companies can retain and groom their passion with less fear of castigation. But this kinda companies are either elitist old concerns or raring juvenile startups. Think ibm,google, microsoft,fog creek,fb etc. Here industry changing machines are being created. A phd is a must have to work on the most interesting projects. Voracious intelligence and allegiance to the software cult is the currency for earning your colleagues respect. People at this level are self-actualized money aint the primary motivation, actually this bunch dont dream management. They consult, create startups to pursue an interest network with other geeks so they could stay employable or retire into teaching technology. Fact is this sets seem to shrinking and are threatened with extinction cuz as they automate more and more the less tech manpower the industry needs. Their efficient tools is leading to job losses. E.g the efficiency of wordpress and its likes created by uber geeks make professional website creation by novices possible threatening jobs/revenue of professional web designers. Similar trends are occuring in accounting etc. But IMO such companies arent here, naija, and most developers arent on that level here. There's no incentive to aspire so high if there's no industry demanding or appreciating ur skills. Mere "java/c++" programming is hard enuff wt no gaurantee of job security / stability so i guess most people ditch the idealism and go for the career security even if it means retiring from programming!

creativeEngr:

Clap clap clap. @kambo. Your piece was intellectually refreshing. I can only add that the "priority" of most Africans is survival, survival and survival. This influences all we see around us, our attitudes and approach to life. In societies where the basics of food, clothing and shelter aren't an issue, the mind is Absolutely FREE to explore.

Until our society grows beyond the survival mentality, all the vices we see around will persist and our ability to innovate will be seriously threatened.

People aspire and are satisfied with different things in life - fame, money, etc but for a true programmer is more interested in solving problems, private research, coding, etc - things you cannot dare for so long on an empty stomach. This is the real plight of the true programmer in Africa.

2buff:

To trail off a bit...
At the end of the day, the knowledge you acquire in school is not what will move you on in life.
It is the time you spend in your room and what you do there that determines this.
The paper you get from school simply serves as a "foot in the door" to get into an interview for the position you are aiming for.
Think of it as Resume SEO , so it is still important to get the paper.
What happens after the "come for interview" stage is all you.

After school, if you are just starting out, what you can SHOW your prospective employers that you have been doing matters a lot more than just talking.
As a fresh graduate, there was never any interview I went to where I didn't go with my laptop to give my employers a hands-on demo of what I have done, mostly on my own time, ranging anywhere from Web applications to OpenGL 3D visualizations depending on the job. This showed that I wasn't just someone who went to school, collected paper and wants to work. It showed that this was actually my passion, and more importantly, it left an impression of you in their minds.

Coming back to the question...
In my opinion, being good with software is easier to achieve independently than being good with electronics.
The number 1 reason being that electronics, and anything hardware, requires MONEY. You have to buy tools, resistors, solders, wires etc....and then a computer to program your PICs.
Whereas with software, all you need is a computer. Everything else is available for free from the internet.

So it just made sense to me to go into something that afforded me the advantage of using and learning about these hardware stuff while I was at school, but not taking me totally off the intended path.
I sensed then that if I didn't avail myself of the opportunity then, I would never be inclined to know anything about electronics.
Even though I never actually used it, I wouldn't be lost today if someone started talking about it.

But that's just me. Maybe you would prefer something of a software/business hybrid at school or something if hardware really isn't your thing.

2buff: Peter who?

new maonza: Piiro ,, shey na u dey yarn dis kwali

2buff:

At all O. Na Canada I dey

Billyonaire:

Why would anyone study computer science or computer engineering at this age and time. These knowledge are all over the internet.

2buff:

Not quite actually. Have you actually watched their documentaries?
The lack of an MBA does not mean the lack of business sense. Some things come natural to some people and can be learned from the school of hard knocks.

Steve Jobs was anything but just a creator. He was a very business minded "techologist", making deals, always trying to be one step ahead, and just generally being very ruthless.

The FaceBook guy (anyone gonna tell me his name? )[size=14pt] MARK ZUCKERBERG [/size] got Mentored into being heavily business minded by one other guy that was also a software entrepreneur so he could be mentally equipped to make some big moves, otherwise he would have ended up just like any other "l33t" coder with an idea but poor/inefficient execution.

Bill Gates was anything but just a coder. He saw an opportunity, capitalized on it, made big steps besides just technical stuff. It ain't easy to penetrate a market as hard as Microsoft did, especially when competing with a fellow as ruthless as Jobs was.

You make it sound like all these guys did was sit around in their room coding and waiting for magic to happen.
Read some more about these gentlemen and you'll see they needed to employ that extra edge that is not too common with most geeks to do what they did.

2buff: @kambo and @Zouga

You don't have to agree. What I am talking about is hard to see right now at your level.
It will become more apparent as you progress in your career. Read books, like "The Business of Software" by Eric Sink.

When swimming with sharks, you need to think like one. You don't have to be one, but you very much need to think like one.
Letting someone "handle [b]all [/b]your business" without any intelligent input from you is a risky and reckless move. Employee mentality.
If you are smart enough to write code, you should be smart enough to read up a thing or 2 about certain aspects of business so you can see certain things coming.

lordZOUGA:

what did that facebook guy do? he made a web app, people liked it and started using it. when it became apparent it was going to be epic, he made a company out of it and invited the business guys to help him out. (correct me if I am wrong)

what I am trying to say is that you have to develop a nice product first before you start thinking business. you have to offer something nice.

2buff:

A nice product can only be developed if you have a mind for the problem you are developing it for.
Facebook is a social app, everyone is involved in the social sphere. Most solutions are business solutions, requiring you to have a frame of reference to the business problem itself before you can create a solution for it.

Whichever way you want to look at it, it is imperative for uber-geeks to extend their realm of consciousness to other things than just C++ and Java.
The business world (i.e. MONEY) cares not for that, it cares for solutions.

2buff: @kambo @Zouga and others

You don't have to agree. What I am talking about is hard to see right now at your level.
It will become more apparent as you progress in your career. Read books, like "The Business of Software" by Eric Sink.

When swimming with sharks, you need to think like one. You don't have to be one, but you very much need to think like one.
Letting someone "handle all your business" without any intelligent oversight from you is a risky and wreckless move.
Employee mentality. Don't be a victim.

If you are smart enough to develop software, you should be smart enough to read up a thing or 2 about certain aspects of business so you can see certain things coming.
Nobody is saying you should be a pure business man (that would be a sad waste of talents). We're not talking extremes here.
Be a business-minded Techie.

new maonza: Boy Whatz really wrong being an employee ? I also wanna ask You what your Priorities are, If itz really to make Money and be stupendously rich then please stop Soft-ware Development and start thinking figures like an ALABA boy or Dangote, You really cant beat this dudes at their thing, another question i will like to ask You is that when You build that wonderful business of yours,are you not going to employ Victims(employees) in it or are you gonna be the chairman, accountant, lawyer, soft ware developer, clerk................................. I just smell FEAR in You

2buff:

Meh. This is just food for thought for those who have reached the level I keep talking about.
If you are having fun, by all means keep having fun. No point of view is bad.

new maonza: Boy Whatz really wrong being an employee ? I also wanna ask You what your Priorities are, If itz really to make Money and be stupendously rich then please stop Soft-ware Development and start thinking figures like an ALABA boy or Dangote, You really cant beat this dudes at their thing, another question i will like to ask You is that when You build that wonderful business of yours,are you not going to employ Victims(employees) in it or are you gonna be the chairman, accountant, lawyer, soft ware developer, clerk................................. I just smell FEAR in You

kambo: @2buff (thanks 4 spicy up the section wt ur post) as a programmer, tryng to create a product one thing u'll notice is There isnt enough time in a year! A year has about 8750 hrs. A product may require 5000+ development time, coding, testing, fine tuning. Thats almost a year. So wat do i say, hit the streets and start to sell, most solo developers in naija hav no funding to hire hands (lawyers etc), you'll learn dynamically as you make your mistakes. (this is how eric sink learnt), by the time your selling your 3rd/4th product or starting a company u'd hav picked up some ideas of business gotten lawyer buddies and friends and developed a sense of direction but it starts from making the hit solo green eyed and wet behind the ears. I'm talking of 1man programmer enterprenuer here. For guys starting full blown gigs, i.e making a programming idea into a corporate entity like facebook, google etc. Stick with your technical side and hire best of breed ceo's analyst lawyers also carvort wt big boys in the industry. You'll need their insight and support (zuckerberg was taken under the wings of peter theil , founder of paypal, the character played by timberlake in the movie, *forgotten his name*, contributed also to making facebook take off, the financial ground work was laid by eduardo saverin (somebody help wt the names) so zucker boy had a full team to rob minds with ) . The value of the combined team knowledge compensates for the programmers business knowledge shortfall. Besides a programmer who wants to make money the corporate route make far more than the solo coder. Paul graham, built a product with 2 other programmers, sold the product to yahoo for millions, retired from the rat race got into venture capitalism, all business acumen needed to succeed has come from the streets rather than from a formal school taught programme. Dan brinklin, creator of visicalc, the app that turned apple from a toy to a major domo, lost his opportunity by failing to patent his innovation u may say because he businness savvy but not so fast , his co-developer, that wrote the editor and assembler on the system he used was a harvard mba! . As an mba he was supposed to be conversant wt the legal implication of not building a thorn bush around their creation. So what am i really saying! Some programming ideas can only b fully realized by the owner of that idea, when bricklin talked to other programmers abt his plan , most didnt see the big deal about it. Bricklin,zuckerg, shawn fannings, had to work their behind off to create a working prototype only then , with intense marketing, meetings etc did the business side take. Note:: shawn fannings, creator of napster, is a hard core enterprenuer. How did he get the spirit? From his experience with napster. None of these guys deserted their technical talent by trying to get a business degree. And theyre still innovating (paul graham is creating a new dialect of lisp, fannings has created so many tech startups) the mba/ thing is usually the path of the corporate coder. Because of management pressure (and contempt for programmers) and job loss threat from outsourcing. Corporation building programmers (like zuckerberg, paul graham, joel (founder of fog creek), eric sink, bezos) . Learn on the street and from their non techie teams(lawyers, accountants , industry vets etc).