This got me thinking: A theist believes all source of morality comes from God or gods. He tries to live his life pleasing that God/gods and tries to obey his creator's commandments. For an atheist however, there is no God. How then do atheists determine what is right or wrong? I mean, a Christian for instance decides to be honest in all aspects of his life because he loves God, a Muslim decides to be generous because he wants to submit to Allah and so on and so forth but for an atheist, I can't seem to understand what exactly is their driving force. What exactly stops an atheist from cheating on his wife? From scamming his boss? From lieing to his children? From being dishonest? From being greedy/selfish?
How exactly does an atheist determine what is right or wrong?
.......The thread is open to all and sundry......

BY WHAT HURTS OR DOES NOT HURT YOUR FELLAS, THAT IS HOW WE DETERMINE WHAT IS GOOD AND BAD. POR.N IN OUR VIEW, AS LONG AS NO ONE IS GETTING HURT, IS NOT WRONG TO US

ooman: BY WHAT HURTS OR DOES NOT HURT YOUR FELLAS, THAT IS HOW WE DETERMINE WHAT IS GOOD AND BAD. POR.N IN OUR VIEW, AS LONG AS NO ONE IS GETTING HURT, IS NOT WRONG TO US

You might feel that what you have done hurts nobody and another person holds the view that it hurts someone. The problem is that if we are the ones defining good and evil, then good and evil do not really exist. If good
and evil are just ideas that we get to come up with and tweak the meaning of, then they cannot really have any authority over us. If it's wrong to punch you just because you say so, why should I care? You say it's wrong, but I
might say it's right. Who is going to decide which one of us is correct?

To determine wrong from right, we ask the wisdom of the flying spaghetti monster who sent his only begotten offspring, the ndomie noodle to be cooked for our sake, and who later sent his prophetess, the spreadable tomato paste (PBUH) with the book of morals which reminds us not to kill each other.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
You might feel that what you have done hurts nobody and another person holds the view that it hurts someone. The problem is that if we are the ones defining good and evil, then good and evil do not really exist. If good
and evil are just ideas that we get to come up with and tweak the meaning of, then they cannot really have any authority over us. If it's wrong to punch you just because you say so, why should I care? You say it's wrong, but I
might say it's right. Who is going to decide which one of us is correct?

ah, great question.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
You might feel that what you have done hurts nobody and another person holds the view that it hurts someone. The problem is that if we are the ones defining good and evil, then good and evil do not really exist. If good
and evil are just ideas that we get to come up with and tweak the meaning of, then they cannot really have any authority over us. If it's wrong to punch you just because you say so, why should I care? You say it's wrong, but I
might say it's right. Who is going to decide which one of us is correct?

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE COURTS OF LAW - WHOSE LAWS ARE BASED ON THAT SIMPLE BASIC LAW OF DO NOT HURT ANYONE - DUMB AZZ

@Ibg:
Let's look at your example. If everyone keeps hitting each other, it could lead to anarchy in the long run. At the end, a sane society is of mutual benefit to both of us. I'm not speaking on behalf of atheists, this is my personal opinion .

I have one life to live, and I hope to enjoy it the best I can without resorting to violence or trampling on other people's right. As to what's good and what's evil, there really aren't any clear definitions from my experience. As you rightly pointed out, what I may consider evil might be considered good by you. Sometimes, for the sake of sanity and peace, we have to compromise.

ooman:

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE COURTS OF LAW - WHOSE LAWS ARE BASED ON THAT SIMPLE BASIC LAW OF DO NOT HURT ANYONE - DUMB AZZ

Ooman, have these courts of law always worked in favour of the aggrieved?

in atheism, there is no set down rule : goodness depends on the effect on greater percent of the beneficary. Killing might be good dependin on environment and circumstance. If the advantages outweigh disadvantage, it is gud. Otherwise it is bad.atheisst,hope am speaking ur mind

musKeeto:
Ooman, have these courts of law always worked in favour of the aggrieved?

no matter who is aggrieved or culprit. The court of law works on who is right and wrong. What/who is wrong is what hurts another person, so this discussion is in cycles and is not necessary!

tobechi20: in atheism, there is no set down rule : goodness depends on the effect on greater percent of the beneficary. Killing might be good dependin on environment and circumstance. If the advantages outweigh disadvantage, it is gud. Otherwise it is bad.atheisst,hope am speaking ur mind

in a manner, but that does not always apply. our only set down rule is that do not hurt another person or yourself

ooman:

no matter who is aggrieved or culprit. The court of law works on who is right and wrong. What/who is wrong is what hurts another person, so this discussion is in cycles and is not necessary!

Do you understand the meaning of aggrieved in this context?

If someone murders my parents and is let off by the court for lack of evidence, would you say the court's decision is morally right?

musKeeto:
Do you understand the meaning of aggrieved in this context?

If someone murders my parents and is left off by the court for lack of evidence, would you say the court's decision is morally right?

hmmm. Morality does not apply here but empiricism. do not mix the need for substantiation and the need to do good/bad together

ooman:

in a manner, but that does not always apply. our only set down rule is that do not hurt another person or yourself

The truth be said: there's no rule like that. My 'selfish' desires to not just survive but also live a peaceful and fulfilling life keeps me in check.

Consider this: if you could steal a million bucks from a bank in such a way that the crime couldn't be traced back to you, would you do it? And why?

There's mutual benefit we as humans and social beings could all benefit from by treating each other nice. But that can only go so far...

musKeeto:
The truth be said: there's no rule like that. My 'selfish' desires to not just survive but also live a peaceful and fulfilling life keeps me in check.

Consider this: if you could steal a million bucks from a bank in such a wat that the crime couldn't be traced back to you, would you do it? And why?

There's mutual benefit we as humans and social beings could all benefit from for treating each other nice. But that can only go so far...

your analogy is right when considering individual survival. Pls note that when discussing morality in nature, we have two paths - survival of group and survival of self. What favors survival of self may not favor survival of group. BUT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SURVIVAL OF GROUP. until now that you brought survival of self up.!!

Waiting for anony to come up on this thread and spew his usual bullcrap that religion is required to determine morality.

HAS MUSKEETO ran away?

ooman: HAS MUSKEETO ran away?

lmao.. U don dey miss me? Was reading the ibb thread on frontpage..

ooman:

your analogy is right when considering individual survival. Pls note that when discussing morality in nature, we have two paths - survival of group and survival of self. What favors survival of self may not favor survival of group. BUT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SURVIVAL OF GROUP. until now that you brought survival of self up.!!

I think the OP's referring to what guides an athlete's survival of self...

musKeeto:
lmao.. U don dey miss me? Was reading the ibb thread on frontpage..


I think the OP's referring to what guides an athlete's [size=15pt]survival of self...[/size]

WRONG

HERE IS THE OP

inspiredbyGOD:.:
This got me thinking: A theist believes all source of morality comes from God or gods. He tries to live his life pleasing that God/gods and tries to obey his creator's commandments. For an atheist however, there is no God. How then do atheists determine what is right or wrong? I mean, a Christian for instance decides to be honest in all aspects of his life because he loves God, a Muslim decides to be generous because he wants to submit to Allah and so on and so forth but for an atheist, I can't seem to understand what exactly is their driving force. What exactly stops an atheist from cheating on his [size=15pt]wife[/size]? From scamming his [size=15pt]boss[/size]? From lieing to his [size=15pt]children[/size]? From being dishonest? From being greedy/selfish?
How exactly does an atheist determine what is right or wrong?
.......The thread is open to all and sundry......

I THINK THAT INCLUDES EVERYBODY!!

dont also forget this

inspiredbyGOD:.:
This got me thinking: A theist believes all source of morality comes from God or gods. He tries to live his life pleasing that God/gods and tries to obey his creator's commandments. For an atheist however, there is no God. How then do atheists determine what is right or wrong? I mean, a Christian for instance decides to be honest in [size=15pt]all aspects of his life[/size] because he loves God, a Muslim decides to be generous because he wants to submit to Allah and so on and so forth but for an atheist, I can't seem to understand what exactly is their driving force. What exactly stops an atheist from cheating on his [size=15pt]wife[/size]? From scamming his [size=15pt]boss[/size]? From lieing to his [size=15pt]children[/size]? From being dishonest? From being greedy/selfish?
How exactly does an atheist determine what is [size=15pt]right or wrong[/size]?
.......The thread is open to all and sundry......

uh

inspiredbyGOD:.:
This got me thinking: A theist believes all source of morality comes from God or gods. He tries to live his life pleasing that God/gods and tries to obey his creator's commandments. For an atheist however, there is no God. How then do atheists determine what is right or wrong?

An atheist is a normal human being with feelings and empathy, just like you. The only difference is that he doesn't believe some things that theists do. That doesn't remove the natural human empathy and moral instincts our evolutionary history has bestowed upon us. We still have desires to help our fellow human beings and better our world.

I mean, a Christian for instance decides to be honest in all aspects of his life because he loves God, a Muslim decides to be generous because he wants to submit to Allah and so on and so forth but for an atheist, I can't seem to understand what exactly is their driving force. What exactly stops an atheist from cheating on his wife? From scamming his boss? From lieing to his children? From being dishonest? From being greedy/selfish?

Have you asked yourself how many atheists commit all these crimes and bad things you listed. It is Christians and Muslims who do these, not atheists. The religionists (Christians and Muslims) require a holy book to caution them from but an atheist knows that we are humans and our actions affect others and we all have desires to better our world. If among your children, one of them requires punishment before he does his home work and the other one does not need to be threatened with punishment before he does his homework, which of the two do you think will perform better academically, other things being equal?

How exactly does an atheist determine what is right or wrong?
.......The thread is open to all and sundry......

ooman:

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE COURTS OF LAW - WHOSE LAWS ARE BASED ON THAT SIMPLE BASIC LAW OF DO NOT HURT ANYONE - DUMB AZZ

Even in a court of law, you are made to take an oath with a religious book (Bible, Quaran etc) stating that you will tell the truth. But what stops you from lying in order to save your skin?

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Even in a court of law, you are made to take an oath with a religious book (Bible, Quaran etc) stating that you will tell the truth. But what stops you from lying in order to save your skin?

you will only take an oath if you were religious. if not, you will be left with your scruple. The evidence is for/against you what stops you from any further lies

musKeeto: @Ibg:
Let's look at your example. If everyone keeps hitting each other, it could lead to anarchy in the long run. At the end, a sane society is of mutual benefit to both of us. I'm not speaking on behalf of atheists, this is my personal opinion .

Live and let live. Can't fault your logic.

I have one life to live, and I hope to enjoy it the best I can without resorting to violence or trampling on other people's right. As to what's good and what's evil, there really aren't any clear definitions from my experience. As you rightly pointed out, what I may consider evil might be considered good by you. Sometimes, for the sake of sanity and peace, we have to compromise.

But then if we continue to compromise, it'll reach a point where everything will be accepted (imagine paedophilles clamouring for rights).

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Even in a court of law, you are made to take an oath with a religious book (Bible, Quaran etc) stating that you will tell the truth. But what stops you from lying in order to save your skin?

Does Bible and Quran stop people from telling lies?

ooman:

you will only take an oath if you were religious. if not, you will be left with your scruple. The evidence is for/against you what stops you from any further lies

let's assume someone was accidentaly knocked down by a car, the person sustains life threatening injuries from the accident. The driver of the car speeds away from the scene but the car's number plate is captured on a phone's camera (just the car, no way to determine the driver). The authorities trace the car to the owner, arrest him and he is sued by the victim of the accident. The owner tries to explain in futility that he was not the one driving the car but his friend whom he lent, the authorities won't hear any of that since he has no proof that he lent his friend. The innocent man is pronounced guilty and is made to pay a hefty fine. The guilty one continues living his life (afterall the evidence didn't point to him). Although he commited the crime, he refused to pay the price for his crime (afterall all he lost was just a foolish friend). My question again, what exactly stops an atheist from lying?

inspiredbyGOD:.:
let's assume someone was accidentaly knocked down by a car, the person sustains life threatening injuries from the accident. The driver of the car speeds away from the scene but the car's number plate is captured on a phone's camera (just the car, no way to determine the driver). The authorities trace the car to the owner, arrest him and he is sued by the victim of the accident. The owner tries to explain in futility that he was not the one driving the car but his friend whom he lent, the authorities won't hear any of that since he has no proof that he lent his friend. The innocent man is pronounced guilty and is made to pay a hefty fine. The guilty one continues living his life (afterall the evidence didn't point to him). Although he commited the crime, he refused to pay the price for his crime (afterall all he lost was just a foolish friend). My question again, what exactly stops an atheist from lying?

this is why we have forensics now. read and learn guy

cyrexx:

Does Bible and Quran stop people from telling lies?

Not always true for every case. Some people might lie and later feel very sorry for lying but a true adherent(fundamentalist) to any of those faiths wouldn't lie.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
let's assume someone was accidentaly knocked down by a car, the person sustains life threatening injuries from the accident. The driver of the car speeds away from the scene but the car's number plate is captured on a phone's camera (just the car, no way to determine the driver). The authorities trace the car to the owner, arrest him and he is sued by the victim of the accident. The owner tries to explain in futility that he was not the one driving the car but his friend whom he lent, the authorities won't hear any of that since he has no proof that he lent his friend. The innocent man is pronounced guilty and is made to pay a hefty fine. The guilty one continues living his life (afterall the evidence didn't point to him). Although he commited the crime, he refused to pay the price for his crime (afterall all he lost was just a foolish friend). My question again, what exactly stops an atheist from lying?

forensics, genetic analysis and other techniques now developed will reveal the truth. and even if he was a xtian. exactly what would God make him do, make him easily confess to murder? wake up, no one will confess.

Forensics is your answer

ooman:

this is why we have forensics now. read and learn guy

Let's assume it happens in Nigeria (the land of corruption) and not in any developed country.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Let's assume it happens in Nigeria (the land of corruption) and not in any developed country.

then your scruple comes in if you were an atheist, if you were a xtian, no God would make you confess too, remeber that we have freewill. Atheism depends on evidence, xtians depend on faith.

@OP do you really need GOD to tell you that murder is wrong