First of all I am happy with the way things are going in this section in recent past. Christians are now focused on discussing biblical issues than engaging in endless arguments with atheists on whether God exist or not(which i consider useless). Those arguments with atheists were just distractions brought by the devil to keep us unnecessarily busy. Thank God we have passed that level. Now, at this level of facing the bible, we also need to be careful. We have seen various questionable teachings and topics coming up here from different people such as-

1. Self service is not sin.
2. smoking is not sin.
3. Tattoo is not sin.
4. Wearing of trousers by the ladies is not sin.
5. Pastors buying jets
6. Tithing is wrong.
7. There is no eternal torment.
8. Old testament does not apply to us as christians.
9. Abraham is not the father of Christians.
10. Not all sex outside marriage is sin or fornication.

This may not be the exact way these topics are written originally but still the same thing. I am not surprised to see all these coming up because the bible already told us that these are part of the end time event. My worry is that feeble minded christians are being carried away by these teachings. Its very easy for a human being to twist the scriptures to fit whatever views he wants to push down people's throat and this is why i advocate that every child of God should always pray for the presence of the Holy Spirit. All these pastors that deceive their congregation also use bible to deceive them. Yes some people will always say that we should use bible to interpret bible but i tell you that one can also use bible and misinterpret the bible by twisting it until it suits whatever the person is pushing. Recently we have seen in a thread here where the issue of fornication was treated. Was it not bible that people used to say that there is nothing wrong with two singles who have the heart to get married to have sex? And another person used the same bible to say that there is nothing wrong in singles having sex? WHEN JESUS SAID HE WILL SEND US THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WILL GUIDE US INTO ALL TRUTHS, HE KNEW THAT WE CAN MISINTERPRET THE BIBLE EITHER WITH OUR OWN PERSONAL REASONS OR EVEN MANIPULATE THE SCRIPTURES WRONGLY USING SCRIPTURES. Anybody can use the scriptures to interpret scriptures(including the atheists and pagans) that is why i can never be carried away by people quoting scriptures here and there to push their points. I always go back to God in prayer after reading peoples presentations or listening to teachings for the Holy Spirit to guide me aright. If you dont have the Holy Spirit, your mind can also deceive you so we also need to be careful here. If you want the holy spirit to guide you, you must sincerely ask him to convince you with what is right even if it is contrary to what you have been believing for years. If God sees sincerity in your heart and prayers he ll sure guide you aright. The problem is that we are too busy and so much in a hurry to make out time to engage the Holy Spirit. Let us not be "pastor-said" christians or alexleo-said, frosbel-said, Goshen360-said, image123-said, Joagbaje-said. Ubenedictus-said, OLADEGBU-said, truthislight-said, christembassy-said etc. christians o. Always devote time with the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth concerning whatever message you ve received. ( sorry i had to mention names. Just to make it more real). On the judgment throne we shall all stand alone o. None of those people you are believing will be called to defend you because they too have the same judgement throne to face.
Let me also correct something here, some of us while pushing our point we quickly accuse others that they are practicing what the catholic church taught them. So does it mean that Catholic Church has nothing good to teach at all? Pls lets stop all those things. I am also not supporting the whole catholic practice but when you feel people are not swallowing your point and you bring in catholic sentiment into it its not good. If i see anything good in catholic i will learn. Infact, i ve attended a program where a catholic priest preached and his message was very sound about salvation. i was even saying in my heart that he may have problem with the church authority because his message was too blunt contrary to what i hear some other catholic priest preach about that same issue of salvation. Lets resort to the Holy Spirit at the end of every learning o. GOD BLESS EVERYONE HERE. AMEN.

Kudos! I have decided that my last arguement with any atheist has come to an end three days ago because I have sense something with the help of Holy Ghost. Most christains today have abandoned the true teaching of Christ following false doctrine or mere religion just because they are not fill with the Holy Spirit.

God bless you real good for the write up.
I know so well that there are many good and true christians in this forum which is why i am always happy to be here despite how twisted some people' thinking can, even so called christans.

Carry on the good work bro Hebrews 6:10& 2corinthians 9:8.

stay blessed and remain rapturable

1. Self service is not sin.

It is a SIN.

Question : Have you ever committed this SIN

2. smoking is not sin.

I don't smoke so will not comment

3. Tattoo is not sin.

No Comment

4. Wearing of trousers by the ladies is not sin.

This a Pharisee-like condemnation of gnats while swallowing camels.

Yes , we agree there are trousers ( mostly tight ) that should not be worn by Christian sisters, especially when it reveals too much , but there are also lose fitting trousers, suits etc that are perfectly normal and legal to be worn by women.

Where in the bible was this condemned ?

This is fanaticism.

5. Pastors buying jets

Ehm, yes this one is wrong

6. Tithing is wrong.

Yes it is , NO ONE is under a curse for not paying tithes.

7. There is no eternal torment.

Yes , there is no such thing, we have a second death which includes punishment and everlasting destruction.


It is quite funny to watch you guys makes yourselves out to be more knowledgeable than Paul, Peter , John and co who never ONCE mentioned eternal torment, not in their letters and not in the Acts of the Apostles.

8. Old testament does not apply to us as christians.

The Moral Laws and lessons still apply imo , but how we meet the requirements of the LAW differs , we meet them in Jesus Christ.

But tell me Sir, what else ?

9. Abraham is not the father of Christians.

He is the father of them who believe by faith , but he is not our actual father , we have one father and he is GOD.

"And don't address anyone here on earth as 'Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father." - Matthew 23:9

10. Not all sex outside marriage is sin or fornication.

All sex outside marriage is SIN.

Hello my beloved brother Alexleo,

God bless you for this thread. It is our desire that we all grow in Grace of our Lord Jesus. I will make my points in numbering order to contribute to this thread.

1. There are many things like you said, might not be 'specifically' mentioned as they are today in scriptures but one thing I have always mentioned & consistent with is, the word does doesn't contradict the Spirit, that is, the Spirit bearing witness to the word of God.

2. There're things that are clearly made plain and specific to us and there shouldn't be argument on those things. But there are things that are buried and it is our responsibility to search it out, if not all but the ones that are searchable.

3. Aside of things plainly stated and not arguable, there's are also things we shouldn't mix up. When I say openly here that I'm a new testament teacher student of the word according to the Grace given unto me, not knowing all; it is not because I do not study the Old but because I have found or discovered an immeasurable wealth of Christian walk in the New Testament. Many people mis-understand me when I said that but it doesn't mean I don't study the Old. In fact, how to I understand the New if I don't study the Old? It doesn't make any logical sense at all.

4. What I found out in Christ in the New Testament is what I'm presenting to my generation. That is, the Old testament is the Christ that the New talked about. The gospel is in the Old but what kind of Gospel is it? It is a hidden Gospel that is now revealed in Christ - The law and the prophets were all pointing to Christ and fulfilled in Christ. Also, I have always maintained, there's a big problem on ground in the body of Christ and that is many (over 90%) of worldwide Christians are re-mixing or redefining the law of Moses and presenting it as Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ but scriptures says both of the cannot co-exist. That's why I fight the law of Moses like Apostle Paul so that Grace may find its root in the lives of believers and Christians. ~ I will need you also in that thread created by Frosbel addressed to me on the Moral Law ~

5. When we re-mix or mix things up like mixing the law & Grace together, then we have the problem we have on ground together. It bothers me more than it does to you things like not wearing trouser by women, not wearing make-ups, tattooing because these things are specifically written to the Jews and it doesn't apply to Christ. Scriptures clearly says whatsoever is written in the law of Moses only applies to those it was written to, the Jews. Now, the same scriptures says Christ nullified all those laws in his flesh and made out of Jew & Gentiles ONE NEW MAN....this one new man is the Church, which is the body of Christ. When we don't understand that Christ doesn't Lord over his church with the laws of Moses, then we are in big problem and I wonder when we will solve our own problem.

6. On the issue of self-service, I don't know if you're aware and even recent, I had stated here openly also that it is a sin. It is not 'specifically' mentioned in the New Testament but word study had revealed that. Those who critize me for holding to Strong's concordance do err because not everything we need Strong's concordance for. It's needful to find out what 'what' exactly means.

7. On the issue of the recent 'fornication', well, I gave my stand out of my study. I believe strongly fornication is a sin against God only within the context of its meaning which I gave a wide range of meanings beyond what religions says it is. We are not the ones to define what a word means when we present the word of God just like we have a circular dictionary that defines word in our English use. I cannot just wake up and say, female means someone with someone with a male organ I will have to follow what is proven in the circular English dictionary. So is how my stand came about on the issue of fornication. Now, I might be right or wrong but I do not find the meaning that 'religion' had given to it in the context of my study. I believe religion expanded the meaning. Perhaps, if I do, I might change my stand. Many people here thinks I exalt or elevate Strong's concordance more than necessary. That's a mis-conception of thought as it is very clearly I don't do that every time I quote any scriptures; I only refer to it when controversial topics arises and do word studies for clarification purpose. I have used this same method to clarify some controversial issues & it was accepted on this forum but if this one is not accepted, let everyone seek more clarification and allow the Spirit to bear witness or throw it in the trash.

8. Well, on the issue of smoking is not sin; Pastors buying jets; Tithing is wrong; There is no eternal torment; Abraham is not the father of Christians and others, I believe you didn't mention 'all' though. These are all subjects we can reason out and debate strongly as we have all done here in the past and might still do in future. Knowledge is progressive.

9. You're a loving brother as I'm beginning to take personal interest in you reading some of your posts and comments. Please keep it up. The Grace (not the law) is sufficient for us all if we lean on it.

Let me also correct something here, some of us while pushing our point we quickly accuse others that they are practicing what the catholic church taught them. So does it mean that Catholic Church has nothing good to teach at all? Pls lets stop all those things. I am also not supporting the whole catholic practice but when you feel people are not swallowing your point and you bring in catholic sentiment into it its not good. If i see anything good in catholic i will learn. Infact, i ve attended a program where a catholic priest preached and his message was very sound about salvation. i was even saying in my heart that he may have problem with the church authority because his message was too blunt contrary to what i hear some other catholic priest preach about that same issue of salvation. Lets resort to the Holy Spirit at the end of every learning o. GOD BLESS EVERYONE HERE. AMEN.

a long and interesting writeup, i was impressed except ofcourse with the last paragraphs which i quote.
I think you have to understand something, the most united font protestants have is against the catholic church that is just the simple fact. When protestants wish to condemn anything as false they necessaryly link it to the catholic church so as to appease the anti catholic sentiments of other protestants. Frosbel says Jesus didnt exist before abraham, do you know how he defends it? By claiming the catholic church made up that teaching to support the trinity. More recently obadiah decleared that Jesus was concieved by sex between joseph and mary, do u know how he defends it? By claiming the catholic church borrowed the virgin birth from a pagan god called seramis. The list goes on! But the reoccuring factor is that the catholic church taught what they declear as heresy.
Anyone schooled in the writtings of the early protestant reformer will notice the same thing, many people think the main point of the reformation was sola fide and sola scriptura, but that isn't correct, luther's idea and that of calvin were substantially different on both count, calvins doctrine can best be described as solo fide and solo scriptura. But they all had a main point of agreement, the catholic church is the anti christ, that is the main point.
Telling people there is truth in the catholic church is to remove the main part of protestanism. Why do you think the early "reformers" were called protestants?

Ubenedictus: a long and interesting writeup, i was impressed except ofcourse with the last paragraphs which i quote.
I think you have to understand something, the most united font protestants have is against the catholic church that is just the simple fact. When protestants wish to condemn anything as false they necessaryly link it to the catholic church so as to appease the anti catholic sentiments of other protestants. Frosbel says Jesus didnt exist before abraham, do you know how he defends it? By claiming the catholic church made up that teaching to support the trinity. More recently obadiah decleared that Jesus was concieved by sex between joseph and mary, do u know how he defends it? By claiming the catholic church borrowed the virgin birth from a pagan god called seramis. The list goes on! But the reoccuring factor is that the catholic church taught what they declear as heresy.
Anyone schooled in the writtings of the early protestant reformer will notice the same thing, many people think the main point of the reformation was sola fide and sola scriptura, but that isn't correct, luther's idea and that of calvin were substantially different on both count, calvins doctrine can best be described as solo fide and solo scriptura. But they all had a main point of agreement, the catholic church is the anti christ, that is the main point.
Telling people there is truth in the catholic church is to remove the main part of protestanism. Why do you think the early "reformers" were called protestants?

Explain why :

1. Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible

2. Why it took centuries , debates, acrimonious arguments, excommunication and a Pagan emperor's intervention to enforce this as a non-negotiable dogma.

3. Why thousands of Christians who rejected this Pagan concept were murdered in cold blood

4. Jesus said the Father is greater than I, what did he mean ?

5. Jesus said, the works I do , the Father does through me, what did he mean ?

6. When tempted by the devil to worship him, Jesus said you should worship GOD only , hmmmmmm.

7. The demons cried out, thou Son ( not God ) of the most high, were they confused.

8. SATAN said to him, if thou are the Son of GOD !!, SATAN must be missing something here

9. God cannot be tempted said James the brother of Jesus , but Jesus was tempted - explain

10. The Bible says God neither sleeps nor slumbers, but Jesus slept .

11. Peter, Paul, etc called him Messiah, Son of God, the Christ , but never GOD.

12. God is not a MAN that he should LIE, but Jesus is a MAN....... I wonder

13. The Head of Christ is GOD says Paul, or should we re-phrase and say the Head of GOD is GOD

14. At the end of the age says Paul, Jesus will submit the kingdom to GOD that GOD may be all in all, should we rephrase to say that GOD will submit the Kingdom back to GOD

15. The PAGAN Trinity says that when JESUS died he did not really die, in other words his body died 50% while his Spirit was alive 50% , thus rubbishing the resurrection which really is a 100% resurrection of a 100% dead MAN.

Oh yes, Jesus is the first born from the dead because he died 100% and was raised back to life by the Power of GOD


The list is endless, keep your Trinity and other Pagan catholic doctrines to the church that founded them , the apostate RCC.

Peace !!

If you(alexleo) don't define the terms, this thread 'must' end as usual.

Emusan: Kudos! I have decided that my last arguement with any atheist has come to an end three days ago because I have sense something with the help of Holy Ghost. Most christains today have abandoned the true teaching of Christ following false doctrine or mere religion just because they are not fill with the Holy Spirit.

Thank God you ve pulled out of arguing with atheists. I was involved in that too before to the point of putting up a thread to challenge them. Well, God in his infinite mercy and wisdom used that thread to teach me how FOOLISH my so called wisdom is before his sight. He taught me that he didnt call us christians to fight for him or defend him, rather to preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to people that souls may be saved into the kingdom of God. He took me down memory lane on testimonies by ex-atheists that i ve either read here or heard or read in some other places. One common thing i saw in their testimonies was that non of them got converted through argument with people rather through the divine touch of God. I discovered how foolish i ve been to argue with them and i stopped. Sometimes you discover that most of us argue with them out of overzealousness, personal ego in christ(whatever it will be called) or even bitterness because of their arrogancy to God. Satan uses that argument to divert our minds from discussing what will profit our souls. Again those argument only greased the atheists in their display of hatred for God. Observe that since we started facing biblical issues, threads concerning atheists have greatly reduced. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

Thanks pastor Olu T, Frosbel, Goshen360 for all your contributions. Lets keep praying for one another that Jesus will continue perfecting us till we meet in heaven. I desire heaven more than anything in this world thats why am expressing whatever i ve expressed and I pray you all make heaven too. Amen. I am not also saying that any of you is a false teacher because i also learn from you people. GOD BLESS EVERYONE AND CONTINUE TO GUIDE US ARIGHT. AMEN.

Reyginus: If you(alexleo) don't define the terms, this thread 'must' end as usual.

Noted. Thanks. Let me just say its not a thread for argument but may be to put up one or two things that you think can be of help to us here. Thanks.

alexleo:

Noted. Thanks. Let me just say its not a thread for argument but may be to put up one or two things that you think can be of help to us here. Thanks.

That's what I want to emphasize to let them know this thread isn't for arguement stuff rather to call us(christians) back and to know that we can't fight for God.

@frosbel, pls try to involve Holy Spirit whenever you're reading Bible because all those questions you're asking to me is because you don't have the real insight of what the Bible is saying according to the Holy Spirit. For instance when Jesus was tempeted by satan He was tempeted as human not as God. Again when satan said "if thou is the son of God...." it's because jesus presented Himself as a son who came from God e.t.c

Emusan:

That's what I want to emphasize to let them know this thread isn't for arguement stuff rather to call us(christians) back and to know that we can't fight for God.

@frosbel, pls try to involve Holy Spirit whenever you're reading Bible because all those questions you're asking to me is because you don't have the real insight of what the Bible is saying according to the Holy Spirit. For instance when Jesus was tempeted by satan He was tempeted as human not as God. Again when satan said "if thou is the son of God...." it's because jesus presented Himself as a son who came from God e.t.c

False Sir !!!

I have a brain, God put it in my head for reasoning not for fancy .

frosbel:


Explain why :

1. Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible

2. Why it took centuries , debates, acrimonious arguments, excommunication and a Pagan emperor's intervention to enforce this as a non-negotiable dogma.

3. Why thousands of Christians who rejected this Pagan concept were murdered in cold blood

4. Jesus said the Father is greater than I, what did he mean ?

5. Jesus said, the works I do , the Father does through me, what did he mean ?

6. When tempted by the devil to worship him, Jesus said you should worship GOD only , hmmmmmm.

7. The demons cried out, thou Son ( not God ) of the most high, were they confused.

8. SATAN said to him, if thou are the Son of GOD !!, SATAN must be missing something here

9. God cannot be tempted said James the brother of Jesus , but Jesus was tempted - explain

10. The Bible says God neither sleeps nor slumbers, but Jesus slept .

11. Peter, Paul, etc called him Messiah, Son of God, the Christ , but never GOD.

12. God is not a MAN that he should LIE, but Jesus is a MAN....... I wonder

13. The Head of Christ is GOD says Paul, or should we re-phrase and say the Head of GOD is GOD

14. At the end of the age says Paul, Jesus will submit the kingdom to GOD that GOD may be all in all, should we rephrase to say that GOD will submit the Kingdom back to GOD

15. The PAGAN Trinity says that when JESUS died he did not really die, in other words his body died 50% while his Spirit was alive 50% , thus rubbishing the resurrection which really is a 100% resurrection of a 100% dead MAN.

Oh yes, Jesus is the first born from the dead because he died 100% and was raised back to life by the Power of GOD


The list is endless, keep your Trinity and other Pagan catholic doctrines to the church that founded them , the apostate RCC.

Peace !!

....

1 corinthians 15:24-28 too sweet.....

It ends and debunks the trinity right ,left and center.....

For all those that say Jesus was submissive to his DAD because he was man on earth,try reading 1 corinthians 15:24-28 over and over again and come back to tell me Jesus is still equal with his God and Father...

The trinity dogma is the most confused of all the pagan dogmas the world of christianity would ever come across...

frosbel:

False Sir !!!

I have a brain, God put it in my head for reasoning not for fancy .

See where the problem lies, using ordinary carnal mind to read Bible. Pls once again allow the Holy Spirit to do the work because you can't acheive anything without Him.