Faith in the finished work of the Cross of Christ is the Christian key to blessings in all aspects of life. Deuteronomy 28 listed blessings and curses for by being obedience or disobedience and says do this (obey) or do that (disobey) and God does this (bless) or that (curse) - that's the religion of the law of Moses. In the New Testament, God doesn't bless us because of what we do but because of our faith in Christ and His finished works. Our obedience is looking unto Jesus, and faith in his completed works. We are not blessed because we do this or that in the New Testament, we are blessed because Christ already took away the curse of the law and we are ONLY left with blessings.

Those who threaten Christians with curse or say Christians are still carrying curse after they have come to be a new creation do err in that they do not understand the finished works of the cross of Christ. On the cross, he bore our infirmities, took our sins, bore our curse and became a curse for us that THE BLESSINGS that was promised to Abraham might ALSO come on the Gentiles, that is NOT only for the Jews but for us, the non Jews also and apparently to the whole world who will believe in Christ. We are saved by Grace and continue to live by Grace through faith not returning to the requirements of the law of Moses.

Thank you for this brief but important rudiment of the simplicity of the gospel of Christ . To add a lil


8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11


The law is not for the righteous thus Christians won't be judged by any written or unwritten law by God.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

These xtian fellas keep shooting themselves in d leg..that is all I can say if you deeply understand the post..

I have been unable until now to address the issue of the relationship between the Old Covenant and the Christian. I still hope that I will at some point, but for now...

Deuteronomy 28 speaks exclusively to believers. The whole Bible speaks exvlusively to believers. To the world, the Bible is a mystery, a dark saying and an inscrutable parable, but to the Christian it is an unfolding secret.

We are saved because we have accepted Jesus's obedience as sufficient for God's demand of us. Because we naturally are unable to keep God's Law, we have to look outside ourselves for the adequate response to the Lord's demands of us. This is where Christ comes in. He offers His righteousness to us in order that we may offer it to God for the obedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of.

Thus faith in the Lord Jesus means an adoption of His merits with which to lay rightful claim to the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. And such faith is expressed by the works and behaviors and attitudes and pattern of living that is exclusively Christ.

Thus, evidence that such faith is lacking in some area of our lives is when we are found walking in the disobedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of. And in such an area, the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are brought to bear upon us.

What God does for us by birthing us again is that He places a deposit of Christ - the Holy Spirit of Christ - within us. This deposit is that which is the new man. It is that deposit that is entitled to all the blessings and none of the curses because it is utterly holy and without any spot or wrinkle.

God's desire is that this deposit grow up in us and steadily take over our entire being continually eliminating all of that which is our natural self, that self which is unrighteous and thus under and condemned by the law and entitled only to the curse of the law.

As that which is Christ grows in us, so does our ability to take advantage of all the blessing of Deuteronomy 28. Only in such areas of our life where Christ is unrivalled do we experience fully and without hindrance the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. In those areas where the ground is not completely under Christ, we will experience the contradiction/paradox of blessing and cursing.

In saying this, I am insistent on holding Scriptures unbroken and speaking truth that is evident in day-to-day living.

Indeed, believers are no longer beneath the law, the law is now within them. That being the case, all the words of the law are simply descriptions of them. However, it is good to remember that we must grow up into Him in all things for in the places that we do not by the Day of Reckoning, ground will be lost eternally.

Grace be with all God's people.

Ihedinobi:

Thus, evidence that such faith is lacking in some area of our lives is when we are found walking in the disobedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of. And in such an area, the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are brought to bear upon us.

The highlight is not true. The whole legal system of Moses called Sinai is null and void. No Christian is blessed through Christ and cursed as the same time. Why? Christ bore the curse(s) of THE LAW and hereby leaving us with blessings. You can't be under a shower and at the same time be dry, you've got to be wet! Blessings and cursing don't operated together or at the same time in the New Testament by the blood covenant of Christ.

Also, when I say believers, I meant, the New Testament Christians or believers. We are under a better covenant - Our blessings are not subject to or within the parameters of Deuteronomy 28 - we are blessed beyond measures in the spiritual realms and only faith is HIM who bears the blessing does release the blessing upon us. The one (Christ) who took away the CURSES OF THE LAW (Deuteronomy 28 from verse 15 down) and being MADE a curse for us, also the blessings was wrapped up in him so that when we receive him, we receive the completeness of the blessed one.

Again, NO CHRISTIAN IS CURSED FOR NOT DOING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW OF MOSES! That's a religion of the law of Moses or what some translations called Moses' teachings - the one who does such requirement must live by them. My brother, you're yet to CAST OUT the bondwoman and her son, it's persecuting the son of the Spirit. There's nowhere in the New Testament that says a Christians is cursed for not doing the requirements of the law, absolutely nowhere. You're still trying to 'balance' the law with Grace of Christ. They don't share the same 'inheritance' bro.

There is no balancing involved or necessary as far as I can see.

If there were no law, what point is there to Grace? What is Grace without reference to the Law, can you tell?

Because God is so utterly holy and we're mere flesh, we can never meet His standards which the Law embodied! The Law was given particularly to tell the children of Adam that they were utterly incapable of pleasing God on their own.

Therefore, we need help. We need something that can raise us up to meet God's Standard because God, being so holy, will never reduce His Standard for then He would be a changing God and untrustworthy. He thus gave us His Own Self to live within us and cause us to meet said Standard.

That is what the Scripture calls Grace.

And while we yield to this Grace, all that comes with attainment of God's standard is ours to have. Where we have not yielded to it, the contrary holds.

Ihedinobi: I have been unable until now to address the issue of the relationship between the Old Covenant and the Christian. I still hope that I will at some point, but for now...

Deuteronomy 28 speaks exclusively to believers. The whole Bible speaks exvlusively to believers. To the world, the Bible is a mystery, a dark saying and an inscrutable parable, but to the Christian it is an unfolding secret.

We are saved because we have accepted Jesus's obedience as sufficient for God's demand of us. Because we naturally are unable to keep God's Law, we have to look outside ourselves for the adequate response to the Lord's demands of us. This is where Christ comes in. He offers His righteousness to us in order that we may offer it to God for the obedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of.

Thus faith in the Lord Jesus means an adoption of His merits with which to lay rightful claim to the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. And such faith is expressed by the works and behaviors and attitudes and pattern of living that is exclusively Christ.

Thus, evidence that such faith is lacking in some area of our lives is when we are found walking in the disobedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of. And in such an area, the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are brought to bear upon us.

What God does for us by birthing us again is that He places a deposit of Christ - the Holy Spirit of Christ - within us. This deposit is that which is the new man. It is that deposit that is entitled to all the blessings and none of the curses because it is utterly holy and without any spot or wrinkle.

God's desire is that this deposit grow up in us and steadily take over our entire being continually eliminating all of that which is our natural self, that self which is unrighteous and thus under and condemned by the law and entitled only to the curse of the law.

As that which is Christ grows in us, so does our ability to take advantage of all the blessing of Deuteronomy 28. Only in such areas of our life where Christ is unrivalled do we experience fully and without hindrance the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. In those areas where the ground is not completely under Christ, we will experience the contradiction/paradox of blessing and cursing.

In saying this, I am insistent on holding Scriptures unbroken and speaking truth that is evident in day-to-day living.

Indeed, believers are no longer beneath the law, the law is now within them. That being the case, all the words of the law are simply descriptions of them. However, it is good to remember that we must grow up into Him in all things for in the places that we do not by the Day of Reckoning, ground will be lost eternally.

Grace be with all God's people.

I think I should add this little exposition about how God deals with man through dispensations. The only rule to this is not to inject any dispensation into another.
1) innocence with Adam and Eve
2) conscience. Cane and Abel
3)Human govt. Noah
4)promise. Abraham
5)law. Moses/Jesus falls under this dispensation too
6)grace. Paul only (Christians)
7)tribulation. Hebrew 1st and 2nd Peter Jude John revelation

Anything we read from the Bible falls under 1 of these dispensations and it should not be carried or used in another dispensation practically.

shdemidemi:

I think I should add this little exposition about how God deals with man through dispensations. The only rule to this is not to inject any dispensation into another.
1) innocence with Adam and Eve
2) conscience. Cane and Abel
3)Human govt. Noah
4)promise. Abraham
5)law. Moses/Jesus falls under this dispensation too
6)grace. Paul only (Christians)
7)tribulation. Hebrew 1st and 2nd Peter Jude John revelation

shdemidemi:

Anything we read from the Bible falls under 1 of these dispensations and it should not be carried or used in another dispensation practically.

^ I completely agree and especially with #4 & 5 as it relates to this thread but I agree with all completely. One of the problem with we have is, Grace will not find it root and function properly in Christianity until we stop mixing with the law dispensation. Romans 7 talks about the Jesus of the law and Christ of the New Testament, the resurrected one. Until we cast out the law, then Grace will be established.

@shdemidemi

That may not be a very good way to look at Scripture. You see, we're told that all Scripture is good and necessary to the believer. We are not told to stick with periods and dispensations.

Jesus is Himself the Word of God. Thus the whole Bible from Genesis through to Revelation is Him. It is He that is spoken of throughout.

And if He is one with the Church, then it is also the Church that all of Scripture speaks of. And if the Church is every one of us believers, then it is us of whom the Scriptures speak everywhere.

Thus, even were you to break the whole thing up into dispensations and periods, the whole thing is utterly necessary to today's believer.

Ihedinobi: @shdemidemi

That may not be a very good way to look at Scripture. You see, we're told that all Scripture is good and necessary to the believer. We are not told to stick with periods and dispensations.

Jesus is Himself the Word of God. Thus the whole Bible from Genesis through to Revelation is Him. It is He that is spoken of throughout.

And if He is one with the Church, then it is also the Church that all of Scripture speaks of. And if the Church is every one of us believers, then it is us of whom the Scriptures speak everywhere.

Thus, even were you to break the whole thing up into dispensations and periods, the whole thing is utterly necessary to today's believer.

Tell them bro, tel em

Bible calls it the tree of the knowledge of good AND
evil, not good OR evil, meaning the tree has both
branches for good and evil but same root. Hear this
and it might shock, God never wanted us to have
morals, he wanted us to have the life of Christ.
Moralism and Christ-likeness has never been and
will never be the same thing. Christ-likenes is the
fruit of the tree of life which is Christ himself while
moralism is the fruit of the good branch of the
knwledge of good and evil. This is what the devil
gets us confusing for holiness message. God does
not want you to do good anymore than the wants
you to do evil, he wants you to do Christ. 'holy
people' judge and criticise 'unholy people' not
knowing that both of them are just two different
branches of the same tree. True holiness is
evidenced in power over death and dominion over
the consequences of the fall, through fellowshp
with the Holy Ghost and the knowledge and
understanding of Christ.

@ Ihedinobi,

The mistake you're still making is that, you are taking EVERYTHING in the Bible for New Testament Christians. That's wrong! The law is for the Jews and serves as their constitution. It doesn't apply to Christians today. Again, I maintain, there's no where in the New Testament where it says a Christian is cursed for not doing the things required of the law of Moses and neither are Christians blessings by following the requirements of Deuteronomy 28. God doesn't operate the New Testament that way - do this and I will do that for you, NO! It is DONE & FINISHED because of what Christ did, once and for all.

According to Leviticus 11, an animal is clean if it parts the hoof and chews the cord, if it lacks both or even one, it is unclean, it can't be offered as sacrifice and shouldn't even be eaten.

But in Acts 10v11, God, in a vision to Peter, let down a vessel from heaven 'wherein were all manner of beasts' v12 and told Peter to 'kill and eat' v13. Peter refused, that they were 'unclean' because they didn't part the hoof or chew the cord. But God rebuked him and said 'what God has cleansed, that call not thou common' v15.

How can God call them clean when they still didn't part the hoof or chew the cord? Simple, they were in the vessel. God's new covenant definition of clean is no more parting the hoof (obeying the law or chewing the cord (keeping the commandment) but in being in the vessel that descended from heaven (Jesus). Romans 10v4 says 'Christ is the end of the law (as a requirement) for righteousness to every one that believeth'. Just as the purity of the vessel is now the cleanliness of every beast in it, parted hoof or not, the righteousness of Christ is now the justification of all who put their faith in him, whether they obey the law or not....

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ihedinobi: @shdemidemi

That may not be a very good way to look at Scripture. You see, we're told that all Scripture is good and necessary to the believer. We are not told to stick with periods and dispensations.

Jesus is Himself the Word of God. Thus the whole Bible from Genesis through to Revelation is Him. It is He that is spoken of throughout.

And if He is one with the Church, then it is also the Church that all of Scripture speaks of. And if the Church is every one of us believers, then it is us of whom the Scriptures speak everywhere.

Thus, even were you to break the whole thing up into dispensations and periods, the whole thing is utterly necessary to today's believer.

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Whether you agree or not does not change anything. Under the law of Moses the Gentiles can never be saved.
You just don't open any part of the scripture for doctrine or for practice.

....this right here is the good news but also the 'offence of the cross', Galatians 5v11. The offence of the cross is the nullification of sacrifice and self effort in receiving God and receiving from God - that you no longer need obedience to the law to be justified and belong to the commonwealth of zion. This truth was very offensive to some jewish christians as it is now offensive to religious gentile christians. But that is the good news.

The Holy spirit will work on our flaws as we fellowship with him and increase in the knowledge of Christ, this is important to our glorification, not justification. The Lord told me this, 'your justification does not flunctuate relative to your works, it stays permanently at par with the righteousness of Christ'. If Christ is our righteousness only as long as we live righteously, then Christ is not our righteousness.

shdemidemi:

Whether you agree or not does not change anything. Under the law of Moses the Gentiles can never be saved.
You just don't open any part of the scripture for doctrine or for practice.

And it is by the blood of the New Covenant that the blessings was extended to the Gentiles. Jesus, in his body bore the curse on the cross and initiated a New Covenant that brought in the Gentiles and we should have a new life to the ONE who is raise from the dead, not to the one that died to the law of Moses. The revelation of the dimension of Christ is important - The Christ that represented the law was of the BODY while the Christ that was raise from the dead is of the Spirit. The Spirit and the law are always at war.

Goshen360:



^ I completely agree and especially with #4 & 5 as it relates to this thread but I agree with all completely. One of the problem with we have is, Grace will not find it root and function properly in Christianity until we stop mixing with the law dispensation. Romans 7 talks about the Jesus of the law and Christ of the New Testament, the resurrected one. Until we cast out the law, then Grace will be established.

@bolded, how so?

About casting out the law, let me suggest that we study Paul's letter to the Galatians, particularly chapter four, verses twenty one to twenty six, twenty eight, thirty to thirty one together.

In that particular passage that I suggest, Paul says,

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he if the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all...

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise...what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

I think it is from the above that casting out the law arises. But, I wonder, does it actually say to cast out the law? Or does it say to cast out a covenant?

shdemidemi: 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Whether you agree or not does not change anything. Under the law of Moses the Gentiles can never be saved.
You just don't open any part of the scripture for doctrine or for practice.

1. I don't think I said anything about agreeing or disagreeing.

2. Actually, under the Law of Moses, a Gentile could be saved if he bound himself to Israel's God by circumcision.

3. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. -2 Timothy 3:16-17.

@ Ihedinobi,

The whole works of Paul, the Apostle to the Galatians was NEVER to return to the law of Moses and its requirements. The two woman = Hagar and Sarah = two covenant and their sons, one is the law, son of the bondwoman (Ishmael) which is also Sinai, where the law was given to the typology (the bondwoman) and the other, Zion which functions of Spirit of Grace and represented in Isaac, son of the promise and heir of the Spirit, born by the power of the Spirit (of God and of Grace)....not of Abraham's works, in which Abraham works produced Ishmael but the promise of God produced Isaac.

When it says get rid of or cast out the slave\bond woman and her son. That is, the covenant and the law. The bondwoman = covenant and the son is the law that was produced on Sinai (Galatians 4:24). It didn't say 'modify' or 'balance' the two covenants, it says, CAST OUT because they cannot share same inheritance vs 30, Galatians 4.

As per...."Romans 7 talks about the Jesus of the law and Christ of the New Testament, the resurrected one"

1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also DIED to the law THROUGH the BODY of Christ, that you might belong to ANOTHER, TO HIM WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 7

You see, when someone is dead, he\she is completely insensitive to the natural life. It means metaphorically, to be destroyed, to render extinct and by death, to be liberated from the bond of anything, literally to be made dead in relation to (something). So is he\we that are dead to THE LAW THROUGH the BODY of Christ. When Christ, by his BODY DIED on the Cross, we also DIED to the law. We become insensitive and completely unaware of the law. Now, the BODY of Christ died on the Cross to fulfill that law, it is ANOTHER, the One who was raised from the dead that we are NOW MARRIED TO, otherwise, the Church when we still having affairs with the law as the Bride of Christ (the One who was raised from the dead), is still called adulterer or adulteress...a spiritual one though.

Ihedinobi:

2. Actually, under the Law of Moses, a Gentile could be saved if he bound himself to Israel's God by circumcision.

3. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. -2 Timothy 3:16-17.

2. But were they saved?....if they 'could' be saved? That was the very thing that the Apostles had do say to the Jews who held Judaism as the religion of the law - to do works required by the law to be saved. That is not of the New Covenant my brother. Grace through faith is the key.

3. Yes, all scriptures is given is not a dispute. But not all scriptures applies to Christians. The law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians else, we can start quoting some terrible laws now and see if it applies to you, Ihedinobi.

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,

The whole works of Paul, the Apostle to the Galatians was NEVER to return to the law of Moses and its requirements. The two woman = Hagar and Sarah = two covenant and their sons, one is the law, son of the bondwoman (Ishmael) which is also Sinai, where the law was given to the typology (the bondwoman) and the other, Zion which functions of Spirit of Grace and represented in Isaac, son of the promise and heir of the Spirit, born by the power of the Spirit (of God and of Grace)....not of Abraham's works, in which Abraham works produced Ishmael but the promise of God produced Isaac.

When it says get rid of or cast out the slave\bond woman and her son. That is, the covenant and the law. The bondwoman = covenant and the son is the law that was produced on Sinai (Galatians 4:24). It didn't say 'modify' or 'balance' the two covenants, it says, CAST OUT because they cannot share same inheritance vs 30, Galatians 4.

Let us see exactly what Galatians 4:24 says, shall we?

...an allegory: for these are two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage...

So, there is a covenant that comes from Sinai which produces, engenders, generates or births not the law but bondage.

So if the mother is the covenant of Sinai, the son is the bondage it produces not the law.

Thus, what is to be cast out is the covenant of Sinai with the bondage it produces.

Do you suppose that there is a difference between the covenant and the bondage and the law?

As per...."Romans 7 talks about the Jesus of the law and Christ of the New Testament, the resurrected one"

1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also DIED to the law THROUGH the BODY of Christ, that you might belong to ANOTHER, TO HIM WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 7

You see, when someone is dead, he\she is completely insensitive to the natural life. So is he that is dead to THE LAW THROUGH the BODY of Christ. When Christ, by his BODY DIED on the Cross, we also DIED to the law. We become insensitive and completely unaware of the law. Now, the BODY of Christ died on the Cross to fulfill that law, it is ANOTHER, the One who was raised from the dead that we are NOW MARRIED TO, otherwise, the Church when we still having affairs with the law as the Bride of Christ (the One who was raised from the dead), is still called adulterer or adulteress...a spiritual one though.

Er, I'm not entirely sure that I get what you are saying. Which is the Jesus of the law that died and the Christ of the New Testament that resurrected? If you could, just quote the Scripture and mark them somehow to stand out separately, perhaps by inserting the phrase "Jesus of the law" and the phrase "Christ of the new testament" where applicable.

Goshen360:

2. But were they saved?....if they 'could' be saved? That was the very thing that the Apostles had do say to the Jews who held Judaism as the religion of the law - to do works required by the law to be saved. That is not of the New Covenant my brother. Grace through faith is the key.

If they were not saved, neither were the Jews.

Of course I agree that Grace working by Faith is how we are saved. That has always been God's way if saving us humans, no matter the dispensation.

3. Yes, all scriptures is given is not a dispute. But not all scriptures applies to Christians. The law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians else, we can start quoting some terrible laws now and see if it applies to you, Ihedinobi.

If it is not in dispute, why are we disputing it? The Scriptures clearly said that every single bit of Scripture is useful for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction to the man of God. Who's that, the man of God?

How a law or ordinance makes me feel when it is applied to me will not change its validity or invalidity.

I find it necessary to tell you, @Goshen360, that I actually am aware that you are attacking an erroneous teaching in the Church. I recognize this and know the error. But, I would rather you not attack errors with errors, especially worse ones.

I will work with you to deal with the falsehood that Christians may need to break curses over their lives that they may have brought upon themselves by some sin or other. But I will not do so in agreement with another error, and a worse one for that matter.

Ihedinobi:

Let us see exactly what Galatians 4:24 says, shall we?

...an allegory: for these are two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage...

So, there is a covenant that comes from Sinai which produces, engenders, generates or births not the law but bondage.

So if the mother is the covenant of Sinai, the son is the bondage it produces not the law.

Thus, what is to be cast out is the covenant of Sinai with the bondage it produces.

Do you suppose that there is a difference between the covenant and the bondage and the law?

Lemme see if you can understand it well from this translation I love so much.

21 Some of you still want to be under the law. Tell me, do you know what the law says? 22 [ For] The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman. 23 Abraham’s son from the slave woman was born ·in the normal human way [or through human effort/plan;  according to the flesh;  Ishmael; Gen. 16]. But the son from the free woman was born ·because of the promise God made to Abraham [ through the promise;  Isaac; Gen. 17; 21].

24 This story ·teaches something else [or may be read allegorically/figuratively/as an illustration]: The two women are ·like the two agreements between God and his people [ two covenants]. One is ·the law that God made on Mount Sinai [ from Mount Sinai;  the mountain in Arabia where God delivered his law to Israel through Moses; Ex. 19—31], ·and the people who are under this agreement are like slaves [bearing children for slavery]. ·The mother named Hagar is like that agreement [ This is Hagar].

25 She is like Mount Sinai in Arabia and ·is a picture of [corresponds to; represents] the ·earthly city of [ present] Jerusalem. This city and ·its people [ her children] are ·slaves to the law [ slaves].

26 But the ·heavenly Jerusalem, which is above [ Jerusalem above], is like the free woman. She is our mother.

27 [ For] It is written in the Scriptures:

“·Be happy [Rejoice], barren one [ Jerusalem].
You are like a woman who never gave birth to children.
·Start singing [Burst out] and ·shout for joy [cry out].
You never ·felt the pain of giving birth [or went into labor],
but you who are ·childless [ desolate; or deserted] will have more children
than the woman who has a husband [Is. 54:1].”

28 My brothers and sisters, you are ·God’s children because of his promise [ children of the promise], as Isaac was then.

29 [ For just as] The son who was born ·in the normal way [or through human effort/plan;  according to the flesh] treated the other son badly. It is the same today [ a reference to Jewish persecution of Christians].

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Throw out the slave woman and her son. The son of the slave woman will not share in the inheritance with the son of the free woman [Gen. 21:10].”

31 So, my brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Ihedinobi:

Er, I'm not entirely sure that I get what you are saying. Which is the Jesus of the law that died and the Christ of the New Testament that resurrected? If you could, just quote the Scripture and mark them somehow to stand out separately, perhaps by inserting the phrase "Jesus of the law" and the phrase "Christ of the new testament" where applicable.

Okay, always at your service,

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also DIED to the law THROUGH the BODY of Christ (This is the Christ that represented the law in his BODY or FLESH), that you might belong to ANOTHER (Another One, not the One that died in his BODY being representative of the law), TO HIM WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD (The One who is not after the body of the One that died to the law in his body, this is, the resurrected One and not the same as the one represented in the law because that One is already DEAD), in order that we might bear fruit for God. Romans 7

Parallel is,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. John 12:24

I wan begin dey write my own translation o

Goshen360:

2. But were they saved?....if they 'could' be saved? That was the very thing that the Apostles had do say to the Jews who held Judaism as the religion of the law - to do works required by the law to be saved. That is not of the New Covenant my brother. Grace through faith is the key.

3. Yes, all scriptures is given is not a dispute. But not all scriptures applies to Christians. The law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians else, we can start quoting some terrible laws now and see if it applies to you, Ihedinobi.

you are right the law is for Israel and not for the church or gentiles nations

and we know that the spirit of truth is coming back for Israel not for the nations (gentiles)

remember the wheat and the tares?

this is the working of the most high

and it is marvellous in our eyes


Yashua ibn joseph upheld the law from start to finish and in all his words and doings and scripture confirms this

through the misinterpretations of the words of paul many have been led astray

remember paul himself upheld the law from start to finish and in all his words and doings and scripture confirms this

remember also how all the apostles were unified by affirming the efficacy of the law this was confirmed by the support of the judgement of james the just (funny how the catholics claim peter as head of apostles, when its clearly james that sits in judgement amongst the elders)

If there is no need for the law as you say then also there would be no need for the impending judgement that is shortly to fall upon mankind.

There is no sin where there is no law
You cannot have one without the other
and we know certainly there is sin in the world we live in right now

Peradventure you have written your own codex to address the myriad ills in the world today?
If so please share with us that we may drink from your knowledge.

And how does this your own law supersede the teachings and instructions of the most high God?

The time you are longing for is coming my brother but first comes judgement

john says he sees fire falling from the sky

right now my naija brethren are seeing missiles and bombs literally only the elect shall survive (Israel reborn)

Goshen360:

Lemme see if you can understand it well from this translation I love so much.

21 Some of you still want to be under the law. Tell me, do you know what the law says? 22 [L For] The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman. 23 Abraham’s son from the slave woman was born ·in the normal human way [or through human effort/plan; L according to the flesh; C Ishmael; Gen. 16]. But the son from the free woman was born ·because of the promise God made to Abraham [L through the promise; C Isaac; Gen. 17; 21].

24 This story ·teaches something else [or may be read allegorically/figuratively/as an illustration]: The two women are ·like the two agreements between God and his people [ two covenants]. One is ·the law that God made on Mount Sinai [ from Mount Sinai;  the mountain in Arabia where God delivered his law to Israel through Moses; Ex. 19—31], ·and the people who are under this agreement are like slaves [bearing children for slavery]. ·The mother named Hagar is like that agreement [ This is Hagar].

25 She is like Mount Sinai in Arabia and ·is a picture of [corresponds to; represents] the ·earthly city of [ present] Jerusalem. This city and ·its people [ her children] are ·slaves to the law [ slaves].

26 But the ·heavenly Jerusalem, which is above [ Jerusalem above], is like the free woman. She is our mother.

27 [ For] It is written in the Scriptures:

“·Be happy [Rejoice], barren one [ Jerusalem].
You are like a woman who never gave birth to children.
·Start singing [Burst out] and ·shout for joy [cry out].
You never ·felt the pain of giving birth [or went into labor],
but you who are ·childless [ desolate; or deserted] will have more children
than the woman who has a husband [Is. 54:1].”

28 My brothers and sisters, you are ·God’s children because of his promise [ children of the promise], as Isaac was then.

29 [ For just as] The son who was born ·in the normal way [or through human effort/plan;  according to the flesh] treated the other son badly. It is the same today [ a reference to Jewish persecution of Christians].

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Throw out the slave woman and her son. The son of the slave woman will not share in the inheritance with the son of the free woman [Gen. 21:10].”

31 So, my brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Avcording to this version's rendition of that verse, there are two covenants, one of which is the law. This covenant comes with slavery too. Sounds to me like it said the same thing as KJV.

It's important though to ask if you think that a covenant, contract, agreement is the same as a law. I asked the same question in another way in the previous post.

Okay, always at your service,

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also DIED to the law THROUGH the BODY of Christ (This is the Christ that represented the law in his BODY or FLESH), that you might belong to ANOTHER (Another One, not the One that died in his BODY being representative of the law), TO HIM WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD (The One who is not after the body of the One that died to the law in his body, this is, the resurrected One and not the same as the one represented in the law because that One is already DEAD), in order that we might bear fruit for God. Romans 7

I wan begin dey write my own translation o

Ok, let me see if I follow you. It isn't the law itself to which we died and from which we were released by the instrumentality of the body of Christ, rather it is to Jesus (of the law, as you said) that we died?

You're not quite right, you see. The Bible says in that passage that we died to the law through the body of Christ. In other simpler words, our death to the law occured by means of the body of Christ.

There is nothing in those words that suggests that the law and the body of Christ are the same thing, is there? The law is one thing and it is the thing from which we are freed. The bofdy of Christ is another and it is the means by which we are freed.

So I think there is something apart from.the words of that verse that causes you to say that there is some Jesus of the law that died.

The language of chapters six and seven of Romans also gives the lie to the notion of a Jesus of the law and a Christ of the New Testament.

Both chapters treat the law as one thing and Jesus as another and the death and resurrection to apply to the same Person and said death and resurrection to set us free from the law.

That means that Jesus's Death was what we shared in to get free from a law that is different from Jesus and His Resurrection was what we shared in to come into a new relationship with Him that replaced the relationship we had with the law.

*SMDH* GOSHEN DONE LED MORE PEOPLE INTO HELL FIRE THAN BEELZEBUB WITH THIS HIS DOCTRINE

Chei, see Ihedinobi o. Unknown to you, perhaps, the body of Christ represent MANY things from scriptures. I will show you later on.

New International Version (©2011)
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

New Living Translation (©2007)
That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, "You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer.

Hebrews 10:5

Okay, I will help you out the more. When Christ 'represented' (in) his BODY by the 'bread' for communion, what do you think was going on then? Are you 'literally' eating the BODY of Christ or it is spiritually symbolic? When you answer this question, I will then follow up.

obadiah777: *SMDH* GOSHEN DONE LED MORE PEOPLE INTO HELL FIRE THAN BEELZEBUB WITH THIS HIS DOCTRINE

Thou man of the law of Moses, never mind, you will be alright. You & I don't always agree on the law of Moses, okay. You will grasp the flow if you follow.

@ MostHigh,

We have discussed this issue in the past. I really do not want people to often MIS-understand me. When I say law, I mean the TORAH, law of Moses. Off course, we are not under the guidance of the law of Moses but under the law of Christ & of the Spirit of Life that now works by the power of the Holy Spirit. If it is the law of Moses, absolutely, none of us can keep all the law of Moses as it wasn't written to us in the first place. The law of Christ is LOVE and that LOVE fulfills the whole law of Moses. Simple put, maintain LOVE and you don't have to bother about the 613 laws of Moses because we are dead to the law (of Moses) but alive to the law of Christ.

Goshen360:

Thou man of the law of Moses, never mind, you will be alright. You & I don't always agree on the law of Moses, okay. You will grasp the flow if you follow.

LOL. A FEW VERSES FOR YOU
1 JOHN 2 VS 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.