2nde:

What else? Bleep* the patient if necessary!!!
Anymore thing **BS*

U just killed your post with this statement, damn? A doctor is the best f*xer in the world (ask dem gynaecologists and co) watcha mean? Earning more than your boss is less like it, now let me give you an example. I love football really, a lot, but have you seen instances where the manager has been sacked for winning 1 in 25 games and a team captain picks the team and wins the next 12 of 17 games?

You must be looking at medicine as if it is a huge mountain, I've been through a lot of medical research books (Allah, i do more research medically than some of your so-called "doctors" plus there are reference books for doctors and SOFTWARE (DAING SOFTWARE!!!). If you can click, then you are a DOCTOR but a software won't do the work of a nurse and a nurse can CLICK!
you've got headache? (Y/N) -> for how long (2,3,4 days), High Temperature (Y/N), Nausea (Y/N) and gradually, the prescription database is loading and at the end of the freaking day, you see:
Ampicillin 300mg 1/12 (thats for a month - if one caps is 100mg then that's three caps a day)
Paracetamol 1g 1/12 (thats 2 tabs a day if one is 500mg for the next 4 weeks)
on and on and on. search narrowed down to a list of possible ailments and tests suggested, all by the software.
I've forgotten d name of the latest one, but its from an Indian Software company and is licenced for about 8 million naira.
With that, i think i should go into medicine, i've got time on my side and plenty of medical craze and i'll be earning massive bucks, PHEW! Shit is crazy!!!

Now you are going to my field(Software Engineerin). What you dont know is that for them to put the software together, they need the presence of Doctors combined together, or you think a software engineer knows anything about how to treat a patient?
You said you made a lot of research, believe me, i make damn lot of research too but most of it is only related to my field.
What i'm still saying is that Nurse is just taking care, they are technician while Doctors are engineer. It's like saying a Civil engineer should go and be diging the road or telling a manager to be doing a secretarial job.
Your level of education is what will relief you and thats what is happening to the doctors, some nurse just go for 1 yr training and you wanna compare that to 7 godamn yrs? I beg.
Nurse pay check is alright to thier job, doctor is thier boss and thats what you gat to understand

IN your opinion, doctors should get better paid - Correct.
IN my opinion, they are crap - Correct

Its all about voicing your opinion. So hold on to yours while I hold on to mine. But i'd rather be a doctor and command d crew than go into DETAILS - daing - I hate SURGERY!

And as for software engineering, man, that aspect is called Expert Systems (read it up) . Doctors need to work with the programmers right, then they develop a knowledge base to drive the application and then they get paid. That's a different case entirely. I'm talking about the users, not the software. All the same they should still get paid, that's life for ya, the smarter guy needs not work 24/7 to get the best pay.

With that software, I believe I can set up a crap clinic and employ nurses, so long as i'm with my software, BOOOMMM! - dat's crazy though, just imagine, - "you have hepatitis, but i'll give you gentamycin for 3 weeks ok?"

Imagine if nurses go on strike ?

There's little we can do about that Bolly, but if doctors go, we'll call our BABALAWOs

i def believe doctors shld get paid a lot higher than nurses,

1. doctors go thru vigorous and lengthy training
2. we learn a lot more than nurses
3. we can actually treat diseases , nurses cant
4. we can perform surgeries, nurses cant


nurses might get closer to the patient than a doctor will, but trust me noone will ever take the place of a Doctor, there r so many specialties in medicine like neurosurgery, cardiology, radiology, ear-nose throat , ob/gyn, anesthesiology etc, these r all specialized fields that requires additional training unlike general practice, can u compare these fields to nursing, def. not, Im not degrading nurses in any way, they do an awesome job, but b4 u come down on doctrs, look at wat they do,

Hi I am new to the forum but had to comment on this post. I live in England and I am currently studying medicine. I just wanted to add my 2 pence:

1. About the GP who earnt a quarter of a million in a year here - he was a GP, only one branch of medicine it is not common for a doctor to earn this much but if you do, either you are working in private practice or are a GP. GPs are sort of paid bonuses according to what drugs they prescribe, how many patients they treat, or how many targets they reach i.e. decreasing smokers, obesity etc (often concerns of national public health). In a sense being a GP can be a business/entrepreneurship more businessminded GPs stand to earn alot more. But this case was not reflective of all doctors.

2. In the UK doctors on average used to work a minimum of 100hours per week, whereas nurses probably worked half as much as they worked on a rota system switching places whereas the same doctor could stay there from morning 'til night. Doctors are assingned to departments i.e. the whole of A&E, or the whole of Geriatrics, or surgery etc. Whereas nurses are assigned to a bay e.g. lets say 6 beds depends on how big the ward is. So a doctor and nurse could both WORK 24 hours but you would see the nurse all the time as she is assgned to only 6 patients whereas you would see the doctor once as he/she has 200 patients to see. The idea that nurses work harder than doctrs because you see them more is unfounded because if doctors saw you as much as nurses did there would be no need for nurses and in fact less patients could be assessed by doctors causing more deaths.

3. Nurses here are taught on a model of care whereas doctors are taught on a model of science. Both are important. One to save and maintain life, the other to maintain quality of life.

4. In the UK doctors receive no grants until the final year of a 5 or 6 or even 8 year university degree process. They often pay £1000/£3000 per year in tuition fees and receive say £4000 per year in student loans which start earning interest from day one. Nurses on the other hand pay no tuition fees for their 3 year degree and actually receive £6000 bursaries per year (sometimes more). On top of this doctors lectures are 9-5 so have no time to earn extra money (although they do at the expense of thier grades - like nurses i guess except they would not need to with thier grant).

5. On graduating although I have worked throughout my biomedical degree and will continue to work as I have so far done in my medical degree I will owe the Student Loan Company £45,000 atleast. My nurse friend will owe nothing. However as a house officer my basic salary will be £19,000 per year for 58 hours per week when average UK working week is 36hours for other profesions including alot of nurses. Nurses by the way will have the same starting salary. After 4 years or so both can probably get £40,000 per year which is quite good but the nurses will buy their houses before doctors (still paying off loan). Unless doctors work overtime i.e. 100+ hours per week which considerably increases their pay of course. Of course doctors pay will increase depending on speciality, private practice and hours worked.

6. As a doctor I will progress only by not only passing exams I have to pay for and avoiding many lawsuits that ultimately lie on the doctors shoulders (i.e. if I overprescribe a drug and the nurse administers it I go to court even if she new it was wrong it was my decision so I fail, in fact the only way a nurse can be struck off is by doing something stupid or malicious, whereas a doctor can be for not knowing the latest protocol - knowledge is a legal pitfall for us more so than nurses who can get by, by ust following instruction, well to an extent anyway).

7. I lived with a nurse who did not even know what NSAID stands for or the biochemical pathway for its metabolism or actions. In day to day life it probably is not important but if you want to understand in those rare cases, why this happened and why you can't prescribe it this info can be vital in the life and death of a patient and is the reason why doctors prescribe other drugs because ultimately they should know more about the contraindications, benefits, risks etc so they have the right to be sued if something goes wrong. If a nurse prescribed and something went wrong you couldn't blame him because they were not taught to that depth. So is this justice?

8. Here in the UK nurses work extremely hard, everyone always says it but no one talks about when doctors do good things only when mishaps arise. This is to be expected I guess because at worst a nurse can only make a patients stay uncomfortable unless he is evil or hell bent on not following instructuions or the instructions are wrong. But the worst a doctor can do is kill, medical cases are complex and so many diagnoses can be possible for a given case expecially if symptoms are vague so even when you follow science to a tee. There is still an area where intuition/experience has to play a role and it may no be a patient dies because you are incompetent. It may be that patient dies because you are 'human'. This doesn't make the death 'ok'. But it does not necessarily make the doctor an evil idiot.

9. When I speak I speak for the UK. My experience in Nigerian hospitals is dismal. Both nurses and doctors I have found incometent in the hospitals I have been and amazing. I am aware of fraudulent degrees or real degrees that have been paid for. SO maybe this adds to the problem of your useless doctos in Nigeria. One thing I must say is please don't tar all doctors there with the same stick as a doctor can be trained in a week or month to do nurses duties. For example we were aught to catheterise in a day, taught to use a hoist in a day, taught to take blood samples and give injections. But you can't teach a nurse to operate on heart in a week with no previous detailed anatomy, biochemistry, histology, pharmacology, immunology and physiology - or maybe you can but just choose the to operate on you over a surgeon with 7 years undergraduate and 15 years postgraduate training, yeah.

10. I hope I don't seem like I am disregarding nurses as this is not my intention, to me they are amazing individuals who do deserve more pay as do some doctors I think (or atleast help during university like nurses get). Without nurse less pateints could be seen and more would die - it is logic as doctors would have to assimilate duties of nurses or risk the patients condition deteriorating without observation and continued round the clock care. I just feel the need to stick up for doctors. We go through a lot when my nurse friends were partying and buying Gucci with their grant I was studying and sewing my cutains to tie wrapper!

BOTH DOCTORS AND NURSES SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN THEY ALREADY GET IN NIGERIA BUT TIGHTER CONTROLS SHOULD EXIST ON WORKING AS A DOCTOR AND IN MEDICAL EDUCATION IF YOU BELIEVE FRAUDSTERS ARE GETTING THROUGH. BUT DOCTOS SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN NURSES. Of course that's just my opinion and I am speaking more from a UK perspective.

hmm I SPEND SAY ABOUT OVER 12 HOURS OF MY DAY STUDYING, I GET 5 HOURS OF SLEEP NIGHTLY, I MISS PARTIES, WEDDINGS, AND GET TOGETHERS  BECAUSE ALL I DO IS STUDY STUDY STUDY, NOT TO MENTION THAT THE AMOUNT OF KNOWLEDGE I HAVE WILL SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES ONE DAY.  HMM OH YES AND THOUGH I INTEND TO BE MAKING OVER 300,000 DOLLARS ANNUALLY I DO HAVE MEDICAL SCHOOL LOANS  I AHVE TO PAY OFF.

WHAT EVER slowpoke SAID THAT NURSES SHOULD GET PAID MORE, CLEARLY THEY HAVENT SPENT A NIGHT IN THE HOSPITAL.  MOST NURSES CANT EVEN GIVE U THE MECHANISM ON HOW NSAIDS CAN CAUSE ULCERS.  

DOCTORS SHOULD AND WILL ALWAYS BE PAID MORE, BECAUSE IF I EVER WENT TO THE HOSPITAL, I WOULDNT WANT A NURSE PRACTITIONER OR A PHYSICIANS ASSISTANT, I WOULD WANT A DOCTOR WHO WENT THROUGHT THE GRUELING YEARS OF MEDICAL SCHOOL AND RESIDENCY IN THE US.

PAH. IMAGINE IF DOCTORS WENT ON STRIKE. IMAGINE IF THE ANESTHESIOLOGIST WENT ON STRIKE AND U HAD TO HAVE A C SECTION., IMAGINE IF THE CARDIOTHORACIC SURGEON WENT ON STRIKE ADN U HAD TO HAVE A TRIPLE BYPASS, IMAGINE IF THE NUERO SURGEON WENT ON STRIKE AND U HAD A HEAD COLLISION IN AN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT. \

SO IF THE NURSE WENT ON STRIKE, I GUESS THE DOCTORS WOULD HAVE TO LEARN TO ADMINISTER SALINE, BAKE AND EAT PIES AND LEARN HOW TO BE RUDE TO THEIR PATIENTS.

OH NO INSULT INTENDED TO THE NURSES ON THIS FORUM

Me I'm a 3rd year pharmacy student, I did my shadowing & volunteering at a hospital and had plenty of time to see the daily in and out of it. I personally think this topic is absurd. No offense to the originator, but you cannot compare what a nurse and doctor do. There jobs are 2 different things
I saw doctors go visit several patients spending less than 10minutes talking to them and leave. The nurses and nurse assistants are always there from bathing, giving meds, administering wound care whatever, they where there. Not to say the doctors didn’t do anything they did, but nurses I saw put in time, this ppl are responsible for administering the physician’s orders accordingly.
Doctors and nurses are integral team members one can’t coexist without the other. We need more of each and as for pay. Fair pay for both, because without good, fair pay we will see a higher rate of turnover and burnout in these fields.

I always tend to stay away from topics involving  nurses and doctors because each party usually comes up with sentimental judgements about who should be paid more or who is more important.

I have taken the time to read up all the posts in this topic and i have dismissed alot with a wry smile because they are simply ignorant ideas.

Nurses and Doctors are 2 different entities but are interdependent in delivering healthcare services. Nurses and doctors are the general titles for these professionals but i want to believe we realise there are a whole lot of specialties in both profession.

I was starting to nod my head in approval of ell77's post until i got to about no 3. Nurses don't just carry out physicians advise, they have to make alot of there and then decisions involving the patient's life.

We've got alot of nurse practitioners and prescribers, who can see a patient and prescribe the necessary treatment. We've nurses that train to be paramedics, whom patients' lives depends on, at terribly awkward conditions, we have so many specialties in nursing that it's so ignorant to think Doctors can replace nurses like ell77 claims. Nurses are not just there because doctors can't be there, we are there because the patients need us just like they need the physicians.

Ell77, Nurses also have their arses bursted and their licenses taken off them for administering the wrongly prescribed medication from a doctor. Infact nurses are more legally obligated than the doctors in this area as we are the one directly administering it so we are expected to know exactly what the correct dose and the correct medication is before administration. That is why we have the BNF for reference purposes under the drug trolley 24/7.

In the nursing home which i work as a bank staff, some GPs often ask for our ideas on the type of medication we often give for one condition or the other, and often than not we have the medication written down to request for a prescription off the GP, as he knows we know our residents better than he does.

Nursing is far more fetched than alot of the public understand, the stereotypical idea is so difficult to erase, especially in nigeria.

Anyway, healthcare involves more than just nurses and doctors, it involves alot more professionals in the background.

ell77 its okay to stick up forur profession but its so bad to run down others'.

omoge25:

Me I'm a 3rd year pharmacy student, I did my shadowing & volunteering at a hospital and had plenty of time to see the daily in and out of it. I personally think this topic is absurd. No offense to the originator, but you cannot compare what a nurse and doctor do. There jobs are 2 different things
I saw doctors go visit several patients spending less than 10minutes talking to them and leave. The nurses and nurse assistants are always there from bathing, giving meds, administering wound care whatever, they where there. Not to say the doctors didn’t do anything they did, but nurses I saw put in time, this ppl are responsible for administering the physician’s orders accordingly.
Doctors and nurses are integral team members one can’t coexist without the other. We need more of each and as for pay. Fair pay for both, because without good, fair pay we will see a higher rate of turnover and burnout in these fields.

thank you jare.

titilayomi:

I always tend to stay away from topics involving nurses and doctors because each party usually comes up with sentimental judgements about who should be paid more or who is more important.

I have taken the time to read up all the posts in this topic and i have dismissed alot with a wry smile because they are simply ignorant ideas.

Nurses and Doctors are 2 different entities but are interdependent in delivering healthcare services. Nurses and doctors are the general titles for these professionals but i want to believe we realise there are a whole lot of specialties in both profession.

I was starting to nod my head in approval of ell77's post until i got to about no 3. Nurses don't just carry out physicians advise, they have to make alot of there and then decisions involving the patient's life.

We've got alot of nurse practitioners and prescribers, who can see a patient and prescribe the necessary treatment. We've nurses that train to be paramedics, whom patients' lives depends on, at terribly awkward conditions, we have so many specialties in nursing that it's so ignorant to think Doctors can replace nurses like ell77 claims. Nurses are not just there because doctors can't be there, we are there because the patients need us just like they need the physicians.

Ell77, Nurses also have their arses bursted and their licenses taken off them for administering the wrongly prescribed medication from a doctor. Infact nurses are more legally obligated than the doctors in this area as we are the one directly administering it so we are expected to know exactly what the correct dose and the correct medication is before administration. That is why we have the BNF for reference purposes under the drug trolley 24/7.

In the nursing home which i work as a bank staff, some GPs often ask for our ideas on the type of medication we often give for one condition or the other, and often than not we have the medication written down to request for a prescription off the GP, as he knows we know our residents better than he does.

Nursing is far more fetched than alot of the public understand, the stereotypical idea is so difficult to erase, especially in nigeria.

Anyway, healthcare involves more than just nurses and doctors, it involves alot more professionals in the background.

ell77 its okay to stick up forur profession but its so bad to run down others'.

You said it all,I guess you are a nurse practitioner like me.

Doctors should get better pay and will always get better pay because doctos go through more rigorous training than nurses and can do the job of a nurse if need be