First of all, salam to you all, I mean no offense to anyone but I have read the description of the muslim paradise and it seems to me that there aren't going to be any black or dark skinned women in paradise. The women of paradise are described as having fair skins, in one verse they are said to have skins so fair that their bone marrows are visible through them.

There is absolutely no mention of dark skinned women in the quran.

Is dark skin not a desireable quality in Islam? I know that at that time in Arabia, beauty in women was likened to having fair skin but I wouldn't expect that racist preference to extend to a paradise designed by allah so verses like this look a bit odd;

“Verily the God-fearing shall be in a secure place amidst gardens and springs. Attired in silk and brocade, they shall be arrayed face to face. Thus shall it be: and We shall espouse them to fair, wide-eyed maidens. “ (ad Dukhan/The Smoke:51-54

Is the quran systematically saying dark skinned women are ugly and undesireable or why aren't there black women in paradise?

NL member: First of all, salam to you all, I mean no offense to anyone but I have read the description of the muslim paradise and it seems to me that there aren't going to be any black or dark skinned women in paradise. The women of paradise are described as having fair skins, in one verse they are said to have skins so fair that their bone marrows are visible through them.

There is absolutely no mention of dark skinned women in the quran.

Is dark skin not a desireable quality in Islam? I know that at that time in Arabia, beauty in women was likened to having fair skin but I wouldn't expect that racist preference to extend to a paradise designed by allah so verses like this look a bit odd;

“Verily the God-fearing shall be in a secure place amidst gardens and springs. Attired in silk and brocade, they shall be arrayed face to face. Thus shall it be: and We shall espouse them to fair, wide-eyed maidens. “ (ad Dukhan/The Smoke:51-54

Is the quran systematically saying dark skinned women are ugly and undesireable or why aren't there black women in paradise?

Firstly,the creation Allah(swt) was talking about are QASIRATUL TARF.They aren't creations from Adam(pbuh),their creation is entirely different from that of the offsprings of Adam(pbuh).

Secondly,what gave you the assurance that the Fair used in surah Al-Dukhan means light complexion?
Fair has many meanings.As defined by Collins Dictionary,Fair means beautiful or lovely to look at,umblemished untainted.So Allah(swt)isn't talking about complexion in that surah.

Lastly,Islam is against racism.Allah said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Hujurat 49;13-''O mankind!We have created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into tribes and nations,that you may know one another(not to depise another).Verily,the best among you in the sight of Allah is the one with Taqwa(righteous,piety,self-restraint).Allah is all-knowing,Well-Acquainted''......Peace

A difficult question to muslims. What and who is an abed(i) in Arabic? A dark skinned slave? A black african member of the Ummah?

lanrexlan: Firstly,the creation Allah(swt) was talking about are QASIRATUL TARF.They aren't creations from Adam(pbuh),their creation is entirely different from that of the offsprings of Adam(pbuh).

Secondly,what gave you the assurance that the Fair used in surah Al-Dukhan means light complexion?
Fair has many meanings.As defined by Collins Dictionary,Fair means beautiful or lovely to look at,umblemished untainted.So Allah(swt)isn't talking about complexion in that surah.

Lastly,Islam is against racism.Allah said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Hujurat 49;13-''O mankind!We have created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into tribes and nations,that you may know one another(not to depise another).Verily,the best among you in the sight of Allah is the one with Taqwa(righteous,piety,self-restraint).Allah is all-knowing,Well-Acquainted''......Peace

basilico: A difficult question to muslims. What and who is an abed(i) in Arabic? A dark skinned slave? A black african member of the Ummah?

I haven't heard about Abed in Arabic,there's Abd which means a slave.....Peace

So much for literal translation. Some sources use abd others abed others abedi depending on the translator. Generally I think it means a black african inferior to the supremacist Arab masters like those slave Morrocan owners still practicing slavery today. I may be wrong about Morroco it might be Mali or Mauritania where slavery still lives on.

lanrexlan: I haven't heard about Abed in Arabic,there's Abd which means a slave.....Peace

lanrexlan: Secondly,what gave you the assurance that the Fair used in surah Al-Dukhan means light complexion?
Fair has many meanings.As defined by Collins Dictionary,Fair means beautiful or lovely to look at,umblemished untainted.So Allah(swt)isn't talking about complexion in that surah.

This is a Tirmidhi hadith that provides the physical descriptions of the houris and the hadith says they are 'white'.
A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings.
—Al-Tirmidhi, Jami` at-Tirmidhi

Also the Koranic verses describing houris usually say that houris are so fair of skin that their bone marrows are visible through their skins

basilico: Generally I think it means a black african inferior to the supremacist Arab masters

Why do you think so?

NL member:

This is a Tirmidhi hadith that provides the physical descriptions of the houris and the hadith says they are 'white'.
A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings.
—Al-Tirmidhi, Jami` at-Tirmidhi

I need the hadith number please......Peace

NL member: Also the Koranic verses describing houris usually say that houris are so fair of skin that their bone marrows are visible through their skins

And so what? Do white people have skin that their bones show through?

Should thin eyed people start to feel cheated?

How about people who believe they are ugly? Should they start feeling rejected?

And oh, men should start feeling bad cos the houris are female.


Nl/ logic /pagan(whoever you are), we are Muslims, driven by Faith and satisfied with our parAdise as it is. Better work your way to it as well.

i will give it to nl member and basilico that there are racist among the arabs. ok. the muslim arabs is our concern. yes. the muslim arabs. and there is slavery in mauritania. all of that is true. but among the arab muslims, there is a good portion who real good muslims. we cant say all arab muslims are evil.

@nl member and basilico; could you tell me what the arab muslims consider themselves in front of Allah and whats the difference between their own slave status and that of the black african muslims? are they not the same "abedi" or abd, the greater honor "Ibadi" [Worshiper of Allah]?

NL member: Also the Koranic verses describing houris usually say that houris are so fair of skin that their bone marrows are visible through their skins

I have explained the meaning of fair to you bro.The places where Houris are mentioned in the Quran[surah Al-Saffat 37:48-49,surah Al-Dukhan 44;54,surah Al-Rahman 55:58,surah Al-Waqiyah 56:22-23,surah At-Tur 52:20]described them as FAIR FEMALES.I don't see fair of skin there......Peace

lanrexlan: I need the hadith number please......Peace

Am not really sure but you can try Jami at Tirmidhi volume two pages 35-40

NL member:

Sorry for hurting your feelings. I am just trying to liberate you from a religion that thinks you should be beaten by your husband if you misbehave and teaches that you and your fellow women are bad luck.

Does your response make any sense at all? Can you stick to topic?

Logic less

lanrexlan: I have explained the meaning of fair to you bro.The places where Houris are mentioned in the Quran[surah Al-Saffat 37:48-49,surah Al-Dukhan 44;54,surah Al-Rahman 55:58,surah Al-Waqiyah 56:22-23,surah At-Tur 52:20]described them as FAIR FEMALES.I don't see fair of skin there......Peace

But common man, they have to have light skin for their skins to be transparent. Have you ever seen something that is dark and transparent at the same time?

RoyPCain: i will give it to nl member and basilico that there are racist among the arabs. ok. the muslim arabs is our concern. yes. the muslim arabs. and there is slavery in mauritania. all of that is true. but among the arab muslims, there is a good portion who real good muslims. we cant say all arab muslims are evil.

@nl member and basilico; could you tell me what the arab muslims consider themselves in front of Allah and whats the difference between their own slave status and that of the black african muslims? are they not the same "abedi" or abd, the greater honor "Ibadi" [Worshiper of Allah]?

I wasn't the one that said the thing about abd or abedi, it was basil. Personally I have never heard of thet abd/abedi thing. I wish basilico would shed more light on it.

deols:

Does your response make any sense at all? Can you stick to topic?

Logic less

Why are you angry? Is it wrong for me to want to help you escape oppression?

Anyway enough of that, I'll stick to the topic now.

NL member:

But common man, they have to have light skin for their skins to be transparent. Have you ever seen something that is dark and transparent at the same time?

Firstly,can you even see through a white girl? These Houris aren't of offsprings of Adam(pbuh).....Peace

NL member:

Why are you angry? Is it wrong for me to want to help you escape oppression?

Anyway enough of that, I'll stick to the topic now.

What do you mean by oppression?

lanrexlan: What do you mean by oppression?

That's offtopic forget about it

@nl member:

by NL member: 10:46pm

lanrexlan: I have explained the meaning of fair to you bro.The places where Houris are mentioned in the Quran[surah Al-Saffat 37:48-49,surah Al-Dukhan 44;54,surah Al-Rahman 55:58,surah Al-Waqiyah 56:22-23,surah At-Tur 52:20]described them as FAIR FEMALES.I don't see fair of skin there......Peace


But common man, they have to have light skin for their skins to be transparent. Have you ever seen something that is dark and transparent at the same time?

come on man you said? you think black is always opaque? haven't you seen a black material that is sheer, transparent? how about georgette or chiffon? there are black color of those and you see through them to the other side as far as you can see through white color of the materials.

RoyPCain: @nl member:
come on man you said? you think black is always opaque? haven't you seen a black material that is sheer, transparent? how about georgette or chiffon? there are black color of those and you see through them to the other side as far as you can see through white color of the materials.

The houris are white, check the Tirmidhi hadith I posted before.

NL member: Also the Koranic verses describing houris usually say that houris are so fair of skin that their bone marrows are visible through their skins

ahh so they are going to see the inside anatomy of their female sex partners? Eww gross! It sounds fetish.
Weird.

Vol-IV THE BOOK OF CONSTRUCTIVE VIRTUES 431 be pleased with. The Prophet said : If an inmate of Paradise will wish to have a son born to him, he will get it. Its stay in womb, its weaning away from milk and its youth will come to pass at the same time. He also said : The inmantes of Paradise will be beardless and hairless. Their colour will be white and their eyes painted with collyrium. They will be youths of 33 years of age. They will be sixty cubits long and seven cubits broad. He also said : The lowest rank of an inmate of Paradise will have eighty thousand servants and seventy two wives. In short there will be such bliss in Paradise which no eye has seen, no ear has heard and no heart has conceived.
Ihya' 'Ulum al-Din(Revival of Religious Sciences) written by a Great Muslim Philosopher, Sufi/Mystic, professor and scholar, Top most expert of that time “Imam Al-Ghazali”

Paris_Love: The Prophet said : If an inmate of Paradise will wish to have a son born to him, he will get it. Its stay in womb, its weaning away from milk and its youth will come to pass at the same time. He also said : The inmantes of Paradise will be beardless and hairless. Their colour will be white

WHAT?
WHAT ON EARTH IS THE MEANING OF THIS?
So everybody must become a white man to enter allah's paradise? My coloured skin is not good enough for Allah's paradise? I have to become caucasian first?
My goodness, does it get any more racist than this?
I can't believe my eyes, how are Muslims not seeing this? How can they not see that Islam regards dark skin as inferior to white?
Na wa o! I don't even know how to express my shock and disgust at this very blatant racism. And it is supposed to be the plan of a divine, unprejudiced God!

This Islam is very wonderful, if it isn't teaching us that women are bad luck it is teaching us that black skin is not allowed in paradise.

Very wonderful religion.

Subhanallah!!!

@nl member and paris-love;

by NL member: 2:45am

RoyPCain: @nl member:
come on man you said? you think black is always opaque? haven't you seen a black material that is sheer, transparent? how about georgette or chiffon? there are black color of those and you see through them to the other side as far as you can see through white color of the materials.


The houris are white, check the Tirmidhi hadith I posted before.

(Quote) (Report) (Like)
Re: Is Islam Racist? by Paris_Love: 9:05am

NL member: Also the Koranic verses describing houris usually say that houris are so fair of skin that their bone marrows are visible through their skins

ahh so they are going to see the inside anatomy of their female sex partners? Eww gross! It sounds fetish.
Weird.

(Quote) (Report) (Like)
Re: Is Islam Racist? by Paris_Love: 9:05am
Vol-IV THE BOOK OF CONSTRUCTIVE VIRTUES 431 be pleased with. The Prophet said : If an inmate of Paradise will wish to have a son born to him, he will get it. Its stay in womb, its weaning away from milk and its youth will come to pass at the same time. He also said : The inmantes of Paradise will be beardless and hairless. Their colour will be white and their eyes painted with collyrium. They will be youths of 33 years of age. They will be sixty cubits long and seven cubits broad. He also said : The lowest rank of an inmate of Paradise will have eighty thousand servants and seventy two wives. In short there will be such bliss in Paradise which no eye has seen, no ear has heard and no heart has conceived.
Ihya' 'Ulum al-Din(Revival of Religious Sciences) written by a Great Muslim Philosopher, Sufi/Mystic, professor and scholar, Top most expert of that time “Imam Al-Ghazali”

i hope you guys know that 'white' as in snow white or white out white or writing paper or primary colors in 1, no human is black color as in jet black absorbing and not reflecting any color spectrum.

And to say mysticism or sufism is Islam is to not understand Islam at all. The only one among mankind who is correct about Islam all the time is Muhammad [sa]. a scholar regardless of how big he is is bound to make a mistake at at least in one instance.

those mystics who do not believe that the night journey was body and soul, for me, its their business.

RoyPCain: @nl member and paris-love;
i hope you guys know that 'white' as in snow white or white out white or writing paper or primary colors in 1, no human is black color as in jet black absorbing and not reflecting any color spectrum.
And to say mysticism or sufism is Islam is to not understand Islam at all. The only one among mankind who is correct about Islam all the time is Muhammad [sa]. a scholar regardless of how big he is is bound to make a mistake at at least in one instance.
those mystics who do not believe that the night journey was body and soul, for me, its their business.

This isn't new to me. Whenever muslims hear something they don't like about their religion they either fault the source or say something about context.
I am sure you agree with everything else that was said in Paris' write up about paradise, you agree that the inmates will be beardless/hairless, will be 33years of age, will have servants and will enjoy bliss that no eye has ever seen and no ear has ever heard. You agree with all this but you don't agree that their skins will be white simply because that idea doesn't sit well with you. You're picking and choosing. If the sufis can be right about all the other descriptions of paradise then why can't they be right about the skin colour of its inmates?
Anyway let me give you the benefit of a doubt;
Roypcain, Are the humans and houris in Al jannah going to have dark skin tones or light skin tones? Please provide specific proof from hadith or quran to back your answer up.

@nl member; you are wrong about my acceptance of what paris_love wrote. just because some truth are on the table, if i garbage the lies beside it, you seem to complain that i should have thrown all away or keep them all. no. it does not work that way.

since you are an atheist, the truth about you are many. there is lie about you too. i have to separate your truth and keep them as good. your lies are another things. they belong in the garbage.


i dont know about light skin tone or dark skin tone. but no blemish and if you think they are going to look like swedes or nordic you have missed the read. no eyes on earth have seen them and their examples on earth are not present. so why am i going to give you what you will not see if you are not a muslim and if you are a muslim will know they are not what you have ever seen.


www.missionislam.com/knowledge/jannahnaar.htm

"In them will be fair [companions] good and beautiful; then which of the favours of your Rabb will you deny? Companions restrained [as to their glances] in [goodly] pavilions" [55:70-72]


The women are not like the women of this world. They are free of al-Hayd [menstruation], an-Nifaas [post-natal bleeding], spittle, mucus, urine and stools. This is what is referred to in the aayah:


"..And they shall have therein Azwaajun Mutahharatun [purified mates]" [2:25]


The Prophet (saw) told us about the beauty of the wives of the People of Paradise. al-Bukhaari and Muslim reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger (saw) said, "...the marrow of whose leg-bones will be visible through the flesh because of their extreme beauty." [as-Saheeh, Kitaab al-Khalq, Baab Maa Jaa'a fi Sifaat al-Jannah, Fath al-Baari, 6/318 and Muslim in Kitaab al-Jannah wa Sifaat Na'eem ahlilhaa, Baab awwal zumrah tadkhul al-Jannah, 4/2178, no. 2834]




www.inter-islam.org/faith/maidens.htm

Allah Taa’la says:

“And they will have pure wives in Jannah and they will stay there forever.”

Qatada mentions that these women will be pure from all external impurities such as menstruation, urine excreta and saliva. They will also be free from all evil and internal qualities such as malice, hypocrisy, swearing etc. Thus they will not have within them the smallest amount of disobedience to their husbands.

Allah Taa’la says:

“And they will have fair females with big, lovely eyes who will be like hidden pearls.”

The women of Jannah will be like fresh pearls because of their cleanliness and fair skin colour.

Anas May Allah be pleased with him narrates that Rasullullah May Allah send peace and blessings upon him said:

“Definitely, the inhabitants of Jannah will visit a market every Friday. A northly wind will blow and it will spread goodness upon their faces and clothes causing them to increase in beauty. They will then return to their wives after having become more beautiful than they were before. Their wives will say to them, “We swear by Allah, you have definitely increased in beauty”. They will also say to their wives, “We swear by Allah, you have also increased in beauty.”

A human being has his own understanding of beauty which is confined to his limited and deficient knowledge. Allah, in his infinite knowledge and wisdom had described the women of Jannah as beautiful. So we cannot comprehend how beautiful these women must actually be!

RoyPCain: The women of Jannah will be like fresh pearls because of their cleanliness and fair skin colour

Thank you very much, Roypcain.