The Church View:
In the Catholic Church the version used is the Douay-Rheims Bible consisting of 73 books. In the Protestant church only the 66 books approved by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885, which today is known as the Authorized King James Bible, are used. No other books, neither the Apocrypha, which was included in the original King James Bible, nor the 22 books mentioned or quoted in the King James Bible, are considered inspired.

The Bible View:
There was no specific list or accounting of all the books that made up the Bible until the commission of the first Bible by the Emperor Constantine in the 4th Century AD. The books that make up the Authorized King James Bible were chosen by men, not divine forces. The language of the King James Bible is obscure and limited.

An Introduction

Human history has allowed precious few ancient religious writings to survive the onslaught of the more aggressive and powerful religious forces, which seek only to gain territory and wealth. Genocide and cultural eradication always go hand in hand with missionary zeal. In many cases every trace of the conquered society's religious writings, practices, icons, and even buildings were destroyed, in the name of conversion from worship of gods considered evil, and religious customs labeled as heresies. What generally results from past crusades is the conqueror's religion replacing or predominantly blending with the conquered culture's former religious practice, making the its religion almost unrecognizable. Christianity falls into the latter category, having been the victim of the Roman Empire, under the Emperor Constantine, who blended the Christian Church with the institutionalized "pagan" practices of Rome and eliminated any semblance of either the Jewish religious influence or the first church Jesus established during his ministry.

The First Reformation

After solidifying his position to gain complete control of the western portion of the empire in 312, the Emperor Constantine instituted the Edict of Milan, a "Magna Carta of religious liberty," which eventually changed the Empire’s religion and put Christianity on an equal footing with paganism. Almost overnight the position of the Christian Church was reversed from persecuted to legal and accepted. Constantine began to rely on the church for support, and it on him for protection. The Church and the Empire formed an alliance, which remains to this day. Very rapidly, the laws and policies of the Empire and the doctrine of the Church became one with Constantine as the interpreter of both law and policy. This was accomplished by eliminating hundreds of books thought to be against "Church" doctrine and watering down what remained by blending Christian beliefs and practice with long established Roman sanctioned pagan worship.
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. Constantine tolerated pagan practices, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his former subjects. In 330 he began an assault on paganism but used a clever method of persuasion to force people to follow the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the official holiday now celebrated as the birthday of Jesus. He also replaced the weekly day of worship by making rest on Saturday unlawful and forcing the new religion to honor the first, not the seventh day, as a day of rest. As a way of defining his concept of the new universal religion he simply classified everything "Jewish" to be an abomination. Considering almost every aspect of the Bible is "Jewish" by association, every doctrinal biblical principle was changed or eliminated. After 337 Constantine increased his purging of the more obvious aspects of paganism.
Through a series of Universal Councils, he and his successors completely altered doctrine without regard to biblical edict, set up a church hierarchy of his own design, and established a set of beliefs and practices, which are the basis for all mainstream Bible-based churches. The separation of the Protestants and the Roman Church caused a physical split but the beliefs and practices established by Constantine remained almost identical. Very little has changed since the 4th century Councils changed the face of Christianity. An effective practice instituted was the purging of any book in the formerly accepted biblical works, over 80% of the total, that church leaders felt did not fit within their new concept of Christianity. The doctrines and practices remaining in the surviving books were effectively eradicated by simply changing them by replacing clear scripture with Church-sanctioned doctrine.

Forbidden Not Lost

Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.
What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as “Protestant", is unrecognizable form either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity begun by Constantine.
There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are “lost”; to the Church they are “forbidden”. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.
One of the more obvious forms of discovery comes from the surviving books themselves, which sight works not present in the existing collection. Also many do not know that the Apocryphal books were actually included in the King James translation until they were officially purged by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885. Other writings also connect many books to the first church. Whatever the number before the purge by the formation of Catholicism by Constantine; even one lost book is a great loss indeed.
We claim no expertise concerning the authenticity of any the lost books and leave this judgment to the reader. We do, however, strongly reject the self-proclaimed authority of any dogmatically motivated and church-controlled mortals who think themselves qualified to make such decisions. One of the most logical and realistic concepts in the Bible is the caution that one should prove all things. We believe that proving the veracity of a given thing is an individual responsibility, which must not, and should not be the duty of those who think themselves better judges.



I am starting this thread to provide further insight in to how the bible which we all claim to believe in came about.

The reprehensible and unquestioned removal books from the Bible beginning in the 4th century with the Emperor Constantine was the beginning of the cover-up of anomalous references and unwanted doctrine from this ancient work. Through secret conferences, and with hidden agendas, the leaders of the early church purged hundreds of books from what was once a massive work. Fortunately many of these books have been found and we have begun an exhaustive project to uncover those anomalous references. Many of these references present a broader knowledge of Bible characters and events. Many add to the already overwhelming evidence of ancient technology contained in the Authorized King James Bible. Many of the books were eliminated by the church leaders due to glaring and embarrassing contradictions of the manmade doctrine forced upon the faithful by the church leadership. Though some 600 books have been rumored to be the original number less than half are known and fewer are accessible.

Are you really saying that a material inspired by god could have been lost? What sort of god is this?

@Huxley
If you read the post well you would discover that a lot of the books are not actually lost, they were just not included in the bible in the first instance and there were a lot of motives other than spiritual for them not being included. A good number of these books are actually in the vatican, hidden in their underground archives. A lot of them are highly spiritual and powerful, some are extremely very revealing about the true Nature of God, but then some people decided to momnpolize this knowledge

KunleOshob:

@Huxley
but then some people decided to momnpolize this knowledge

But why

MC Usman:

But why

The reason is very simple "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER" Man as always wanted to dominate his environment and other men around him. The people / sects monopolizing this knowledge have used it to develop themselves spiritually at the detriment of others. You would be shocked how many so called cults and sects use this "lost" books to develop themselves spiritually.

The reason is very simple "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER" Man as always wanted to dominate his environment and other men around him. The people / sects monopolizing this knowledge have used it to develop themselves spiritually at the detriment of others. You would be shocked how many so called cults and sects use this "lost" books to develop themselves spiritually.

LOLOL, there is always a conspiracy huh?

Why don't you give us a listing of these books, that were in existence that are now hidden. Surely since you hold the knowledge you can be able to prove it right?

Let us know if they are of the Old Testament or the New Testament.

Infact give us a detailed view of them.

@lady
If you read your bible well you would have come across several books that are refered to yet are not found there, Let me mention a few, the book of enoch( the bible tells us that enoch walked with God) he was very close to God waht happened to the book he wrote?? Other books are : land of Eden, book of jasher, book of Melchizedek e.t.c in the new tstment times we have books like The Acts of Andrew,
The Acts of John
The Acts of Paul,
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Gospel of Hebrews
The Gospel of Matthias
The Gospel of Peter
The Gospel of Thomas
The Shepherd of Hermas
The Teachings of the Apostles
all this books for whatever reason where omitted from the bible despite the fact that they had spiritual value. for further reading, you can check out m y other post on the subject on this link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-143191.0.html

[quotethe book of enoch( the bible tells us that enoch walked with God) he was very close to God waht happened to the book he wrote?? Other books are : land of Eden, book of jasher, book of Melchizedek][quote][/quote]

Ask the Jews. This should be a part of their history if it's true.

I already know about the history of the books that were not included in the New Testament.
Now my brother have you read these books?
By the way the ones you listed are not the only books that have were left out there were more. Now once again have you read these books?
If you have do you conclude that they are saying anything different from what the ones in the New Testament already say or can you conclude the reason why they were not included?
Some of these works are missing parts in it, could that be the reason why they were not included or could it be that the credibility of these works are in question as in who the actual authors were unlike the ones we have and know who the actual authors are?

@lady
Well the reasons they are not included is not very clear, but one thing is certain the original bible that was compiled which evolved in to today's bible was compiled by constantine (a politician) who was also a pagan. He saw allowing christianity as a way of gaining popularity amongst the chrsitians who were growing in number at that time. He also wanted to use the bible as an instrument of control, over the christians so he allowed only books that would not compromise him

Some years ago i bought a copy of this book from barnes and Noble. After reading the first chapter i took it back. It was crap. why? There are no lost books of the Bible. Everything you need is right there. However, there are passages that mentioned that such and such were written in "the chronicles of the kings of Judah" or "the chronicles of the kings of Israel". Those are missing. But nothing that will prevent you from gaining a personal relationship with God

Peace

There are many reasons why they were left out of the bible some did contradict stories in the bible others were left out because of when they were written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_from_the_Bible
That should do a bit of justice to it.

@kunle
i cansee ure one of these 'new-age' xtians. ure even more confused than the atheists.

very fast : the books that where 'removed' as you say from the bible were removed based on seeming inconsistencies. the bible is just a collection of books that are congruent in their message. chikena!

simmy:

@kunle
i cansee ure one of these 'new-age' xtians. ure even more confused than the atheists.

very fast : the books that where 'removed' as you say from the bible were removed based on seeming inconsistencies. the bible is just a collection of books that are congruent in their message. chikena!

Even the bible does not claim to be complete, as a bible believing christian, it only makes sense i check out the source of inspiration i use as a chrisitan bearing in mind that the bible did not exist until over 300 years after the death of christ. It is a pity several peope claim to be christians and beleive in the bible yet they know very little about the bible they claim to believe in.

simmy:


very fast : the books that where 'removed' as you say from the bible were removed based on seeming inconsistencies. the bible is just a collection of books that are congruent in their message. chikena!

Na wa o! If seeming inconsistencies were the criteria there simply would be NO BIBLE. Every other book in the bible has something inconsistent (when read literally) from other books.

~Lady~:


I already know about the history of the books that were not included in the New Testament.
Now my brother have you read these books?
By the way the ones you listed are not the only books that have were left out there were more. Now once again have you read these books?
If you have do you conclude that they are saying anything different from what the ones in the New Testament already say or can you conclude the reason why they were not included?
[/b]Some of these works are missing parts in it, could that be the reason why they were not included or could it be that the credibility of these works are in question as in who the [b]actual authors were unlike the ones we have and know who the actual authors are?

And then for the opposite argument, if it is a matter of the bible not wanting to repeat itself then there would be no need for the four gospels in which many of the things in them are the same. In fact the gospels are ruled out for both reasons given above. They repeat themselves, 1. And then they contradict themselves, 2.

And as for the authorship of biblical books. How can Moses write a book that tells the story of how he 'died' (okay, when up to the mountain and wasn't seen again)? The gospels were named after apostles but that doesn't mean that the apostles wrote the books.

As for having missing parts in them . . . what is a criteria for what is a complete story and what has things missing?

@KunleOshob
I heard that Gospel of Judas was discovered. According to the book, Judas was painted as a hero for helping Jesus Christ accomplish his mission on earth. And that Judas was more closer to Jesus that the other 11 disciples. There is also the Secret books of Peter. But I cannot give details of the book here because of its controversial nature.

obinna5000:

@KunleOshob
I heard that Gospel of Judas was discovered. According to the book, Judas was painted as a hero for helping Jesus Christ accomplish his mission on earth. And that Judas was more closer to Jesus that the other 11 disciples. There is also the Secret books of Peter. But I cannot give details of the book here because of its controversial nature.

Why not,

c'mon spill it out jooooo

@Obinna5000
Well there is a lot of controversy sorroundng the bible and the church that church leaders would rather us not discuss. But i believe as christians we should earnestly search for the truth about what we believe in And verify the truth like the berean christians. I personally have the opinion that the scriptures have been tampered with for thousands of years and what we have today is not the "undiluted" word og God that we are told it is. The fact that the English language alone as over 100 translations/ versions of the bible is enough evidence that something is wrong. Even the King's james version that is so popular as several flaws and unknown to most people, it is not the first translation to the english language, it is actually the third. The first two translations were banned and their authors executed for their un-authorized translation of the bible.

Check this guy out:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

KunleOshob:

@Obinna5000
Well there is a lot of controversy sorroundng the bible and the church that church leaders would rather us not discuss. But i believe as christians we should earnestly search for the truth about what we believe in And verify the truth like the berean christians. I personally have the opinion that the scriptures have been tampered with for thousands of years and what we have today is not the "undiluted" word og God that we are told it is. The fact that the English language alone as over 100 translations/ versions of the bible is enough evidence that something is wrong. Even the King's james version that is so popular as several flaws and unknown to most people, it is not the first translation to the english language, it is actually the third. The first two translations were banned and their authors executed for their un-authorized translation of the bible.

Me, personally, I'm very interested and involved in the subject of translation of ideas across languages and across cultures.  Especially Yoruba culture and language.  Ultimately, language is a vehicle for the expressions of a people's experience and is informed by it's history, it's culture and it's aspirations. 

Now, there is something called Pseudomorphosis.  This is an idea and term coined by a guy called Oswald Spengler who wrote a famous book called the Decline of The West at the start of the 20th century.  The Idea is actually borrowed from geology.  it's as follows . . .

Pseudomorphosis The concept of pseudomorphosis is one that Spengler borrows from minerology and a concept that he introduces as a way of explaining what are in his eyes half-developed or only partially manifested Cultures. Specifically pseudomorphosis entails an older Culture so deeply ingrained in a land that a young Culture can not find its own form and full expression of itself. This leads to the young soul being cast in the old moulds, in Spengler's words. Young feelings then stiffen in senile practices, and instead of expanding creatively, it fosters hate toward the other older Culture.
Spengler believes that pseudomorphosis began with the Battle of Actium. Here the gestating Arabian Culture lost to the Classical Civilization. He asserts that it should have been Antony who won. The battle was not the struggle of Rome and Greece that came there to an issue—that struggle had been fought out at Cannae and Zama, where it was Hannibal who stood as champion for Hellenism. Antony’s victory would have freed the Magian Culture, but his defeat imposed Roman Civilization on the young Culture.

from here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West

Basically, a people need to express themselves.  When, by the accident of history, they find a new form (of culture/expression such as language or culture) imposed on them they will contort that form until it is capable of expressing their experience.  This can happen during colonialism or conquest.  Ultimately, they will twist the forms of the conquering culture until the conquering culture will itself no longer understand the meanings to which the forms and terms are applied.  Christianity in Nigeria is not the same thing that Europeans practice/practiced.

I get this problem when explaining nigerian english to my oyinbo friends.  When Fela sings, "Pahlava, in dey find, palava in go geti o", my oyinbo friend says, "oh, he's looking for Gossip".  I have to explain that palava doesn't mean gossip anymore, it means trouble. 
The contortion occurs even at the most basic phonetic levels.  The words we chose to use in the english language are words that contain the appropriate phonetic sound to convey the very african sentiment that we are trying to express.  If the word originally didn't have the phonetic we will force it to have.  The grammar is distorted so that the phrases are the right length because rhythm and number of syllables in a sentence are important to the conveying of sentiment.  ('we will force it to have' being a case in point. It is a truncated sentence that sounds more african grammatically).
Pidgen English might originally have come from England but right now today it is a very very AFRican Language.  The sentiments it is used to express are very very african and an oyinbo could never really 'get' what is being said unless he has had an experience of living as an african in africa.  Even if he understood the words. 

So the issue at stake now is:  Does a religion or any other culture artifact (such as the bible) stay intact when it crosses cultural boundaries? 

Is Esu of yoruba mythology really the satan of the bible?  How did this affect the understand of those yorubas that first converted to christianity. 

How do you translate Logos into Yoruba?  Is there a similar thing in the yoruba thought complex and if not how do you use a yoruba word that already means something else in that thought complex to convey what the Logos is?  When I read my yoruba bible and I see this:

Li atetekose li oro wa, Oro si wa pelu olorun

am I to understand that in the beginning there was Talk and Talk was with God.  Or in the beginning there was a Subject of conversation, and the subject of conversation was with God. 


The bible has already crossed many cultural boundaries before it arrived in Africa, and I'm sure that at each stage of it's journey it was used, not as originally intended, but as those into whose hands it fell desired to use it.   Just as today it has various uses for various religious groups, some with their own translations.  Even Thieves and conmen can use it if they so desire.  Ultimately it is an ARTIFACT used to convey something deeper.

@pastorAIO
You are soooo correct, i agree 100% with your thesis.

@Pastor AIO
i agree with you. translations are never 100% accurate.

however, kunle oshob was talking about the books that are contained in what protestants term the bible.
and my point is; the early xtian leaders who chose 4 us us what the bible is today left out some books ont he basis of:
1. proof of authenticity
2. consistency with other books
etc etc
suggesting that some silly pips just sat farting round a table and picked some books at random isnt very accurate.

~Lady~:

LOLOL, there is always a conspiracy huh?

Why don't you give us a listing of these books, that were in existence that are now hidden. Surely since you hold the knowledge you can be able to prove it right?

Let us know if they are of the Old Testament or the New Testament.

Infact give us a detailed view of them.

I have an uncle ( not blood related) who studied for the priesthood but isn't a priest today, though his brother is. He's told me himself that there are numerous books in the Vatican that will never be released to the general populace. It follows, he argues, that catholics don't know the half of what they are following. And the Protestants even less.

simmy:


however, kunle oshob was talking about the books that are contained in what protestants term the bible.
and my point is; the early xtian leaders who chose 4 us us what the bible is today left out some books ont he basis of:
1. proof of authenticity
2. consistency with other books
etc etc
suggesting that some silly pips just sat farting round a table and picked some books at random isnt very accurate.

No, the books were certainly not picked at random. They were picked to serve an agenda. I've already given a brief history of it in another thread. In the course of doing so some catholics (I won't mention any names otherwise Imhotep come and stress me again) decided to jump down my throat. I don't know how recounting documented history can be so offensive. But to avoid further aggro I don't think I shall do so again.

@AIO
gimme the link, so i ll at least know wht ure talking about.

ps: did u got to U.I? just wondering.

simmy:

@Pastor AIO
i agree with you. translations are never 100% accurate.

however, kunle oshob was talking about the books that are contained in what protestants term the bible.
and my point is; the early xtian leaders who chose 4 us us what the bible is today left out some books ont he basis of:
1. proof of authenticity
2. consistency with other books
etc etc
suggesting that some silly pips just sat farting round a table and picked some books at random isnt very accurate.

Your assumptions are far from the reality on ground and you have just demonstrated that you did not read this thread thoroughly before badging into the topic and attacking the post. there were a lot of other reasons than meets the eye that some other books were left out of the bible and pastor AIO as just given a hint, a lot of books are locked up in the vatican and kept secret for whatever reasons best known to them. Infact if you have ever bothered to read your bible thoroughly you would discover that it poses more questions than answers and this are questions even those who claim spiritual insight cannot answer, so most churches avoid such topics.

Inspiration of Bible
Robert Green Ingersoll
"A FEW REASONS FOR DOUBTING THE INSPIRATION OF THE BIBLE.
[b]THE Old Testament must have been written nearly two thousand years before the invention of Printing. There were but few copies, and these were in the keeping of those whose interest might have prompted interpolations, and whose ignorance might have led to mistakes.[/b]Second. The written Hebrew was composed entirely of consonants, without any points or marks standing for vowels, so that anything like accuracy was impossible, Anyone can test this for himself by writing an English sentence, leaving out the vowels. It will take far more inspiration to read than to write a book with consonants alone.
Third. The books composing the Old Testament were not divided into chapters or verses, and no system of punctuation was known. Think of this a moment and you will see how difficult it must be to read such a book.
Fourth. There was not among the Jews any dictionary of their language, and for this reason the accurate meaning of words could not be preserved. Now the different meanings of words are preserved so that by knowing the age in which a writer lived we can ascertain with reasonable certainty his meaning.
Fifth. [b]The Old Testament was printed for the first time in 1488. Until this date it existed only in manuscript, and was constantly exposed to erasures and additions.[/b]Sixth. It is now admitted by the most learned in the Hebrew language that in our present English version of the Old Testament there are at least one hundred thousand errors. Of course the believers in inspiration assert that these errors are not sufficient in number to cast the least suspicious upon any passages upholding what are called the fundamentals."
Seventh. [b]It is not certainly known who in fact wrote any of the books of the Old Testament. For instance, it is now generally conceded that Moses was not the author of the Pentateuch.[/b]Eighth. Other books, not now in existence, are referred to in the Old Testament as of equal authority, such as the books of Jasher, Nathan, Ahijah, Iddo, Jehu, Sayings of the Seers.
Ninth. [b]The Christians are not agreed among themselves as to what books are inspired. The Catholics claim as inspired the books of Maccabees, Tobit, Esdras, etc. Others doubt the inspiration of Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon.[/b]Tenth. In the book of Esther and the Song of Solomon the name of God is not mentioned, and no reference is made to any supreme being, nor to any religions duty. these omissions would seem sufficient to cast a little doubt upon these books.
Eleventh. Within the present century manuscript copies of the Old Testament have been found throwing new light and changing in many instances the present readings. In consequence a new version is now being made by a theological syndicate composed of English and American divines, and after this is published it may be that our present Bible will fall into disrepute.
Twelfth. The fact that language is continually changing that words are constantly dying and others being born; that the same word has a variety of meanings during its life, shows how hard it is to preserve the original ideas that might have been expressed in the Scriptures, for thousands of years, without dictionaries, without the art of printing, and without the light of contemporaneous literature.
Thirteenth. Whatever there was of the Old Testament seems to have been lost from the time of Moses until the days of Josiah, and it is probable that nothing like the Bible existed in any permanent form among the Jews until a few hundred years before Christ. It is said that Ezra gave the Pentateuch to the Jews, but whether he found or originated it is unknown. So it is claimed that Nehemiah gathered up the manuscripts about the kings and prophets, while the books of Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ruth, Ecclesiastes, and some others were either collected or written long after. The Jews themselves did not agree as to what books were really inspired.
Fourteenth. In the Old Testament we find several contradictory laws about the same thing, and contradictory accounts of the same occurrences. In the twentieth chapter of Exodus we find the first account of the giving of Ten Commandments. In the thirty-fourth chapter another account is given. These two accounts could never have been written by the same person. Read these two accounts and you will be forced to admit that one of them cannot be true. So there are two histories of the creation, of the flood, and of the manner in which Saul became king.
Fifteenth. It is now generally admitted that Genesis must have been written by two persons, and the parts written by each can be separated, and when separated they are found to contradict each other in many important particulars.
Sixteenth. It is also. admitted that copyists made verbal changes not only, but pieced out fragments; that the speeches of Elihu in the book of Job were all interpolated, and that most of the prophecies were made by persons whose names we have never known.
Seventeenth. The manuscripts of the Old Testament were not alike, and the Greek version differed from the Hebrew, and there was no absolutely received text of the Old Testament until after the commencement of the Christian era. Marks and points to denote vowels were invented probably about the seventh century after Christ. Whether these vowels were put in the proper places or not is still an open question.
Eighteenth. The Alexandrian version, or what is known as the Septuagint, translated by seventy learned Jews, assisted by "miraculous power," about two hundred years before Christ, could not have been, it is said, translated from the Hebrew text that we now have. The differences can only be accounted for by supposing that they had a different Hebrew text. The early Christian Churches adopted the Septuagint, and were satisfied for a time. But so many errors were found, and so many were scanning every word in search of something to sustain their peculiar views, that several new versions appeared, all different somewhat from the Hebrew manuscripts, from the Septuagint, and from each other. All these versions were in Greek. The first Latin Bible originated in Africa, but no one has ever found out which Latin manuscript was the original. Many were produced, and all differed from each other. These Latin versions were compared with each other and with the Hebrew, and a new Latin version was made in the fifth century, but the old Latin versions held their own for about four hundred years, and no one yet knows which were right. Besides these there were Egyptian, Ethiopic, Armenian, and several others, all differing from each other as well as from all others in the world.
[b]It was not until the fourteenth century that the Bible was translated into German, and not until the fifteenth that Bibles were printed in the principal languages of Europe. Of these Bibles there were several kinds -- Luther's, the Dort, King James's, Genevan, French, besides the Danish and Swedish. Mort of these differed from each other, and gave rise to infinite disputes and crimes without number. The earliest fragment of the Bible in the "Saxon" language known to exist was written sometime in the seventh century. The first Bible was printed in England in 1538. In 1560 the first English Bible was printed that was divided into verses. Under Henry VIII. the Bible was revised; again under Queen Elizabeth, and once again under King James, This last was published in 1611, and is the one now in general use.[/b]Nineteenth. No one in the world has learning enough, nor has the time enough even if he had the learning, and could live a thousand years, to find out what books really belong to and constitute the Old Testament, the authors these books, when they were written, and what they mean. And until a man has the learning and the time to do all this he cannot certainly tell whether he believe Bible or not.
Twentieth. If a revelation from God was actually necessary to the happiness of man here and to his salvation hereafter, it is not easy to see why such revelation was not given to all the nations of the earth. Why were the millions of Asia, Egypt, and America left to the insufficient light of nature. Why was not a written, or what is still better, printed revelation given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? And why were the Jews themselves without a Bible until the days of Ezra the scribe? Why was nature not so made that it would give light enough? Why did God make men and leave them in darkness -- a darkness that he knew would fill the world with want and crime, and crowd with damned souls the dungeons of hell? Were the Jews the only people who needed a revelation? It may be said that God had no time to waste with other nations, and gave the Bible to the Jews that other nations through them might learn of his existence and his will. If he wished other nations to be informed, and revealed himself to but one, why did he not choose a people that mingled with others? Why did he give the message to those who had no commerce, who were obscure and unknown, and who regarded other nations with the hatred born of bigotry and weakness? What would we now think of a God who made his will known to the South Sea Islanders for the benefit of the civilized world? If it was of such vast importance for man to know that there is a God, why did not God make himself known? This fact could have been revealed by an infinite being instantly to all, and there certainly was no necessity of telling it alone to the Jews, and allowing millions for thousands of years to die in utter ignorance.
Twenty-first The Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Tartars, Africans, Eskimo, Persians, Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Polynesians, and many other peoples, are substantially ignorant of the Bible. All the Bible societies of the world have produced only about one hundred and twenty millions of Bibles, and there are about fourteen hundred million people. There are hundreds of languages and tongues in which no Bible has yet been printed. Why did God allow, and why does he still allow, a vast majority of his children to remain in ignorance of his will?
Twenty-second. If the Bible is the foundation of all civilization, of all just ideas of right and wrong, of our duties to God and each other, why did God not give to each nation at least one copy to start with? He must have known that no nation could get along successfully without a Bible, and he also knew that man could not make one for himself. Why, then, were not the books furnished? He must have known that the light of nature was not sufficient to reveal the scheme of the atonement, the necessity of baptism, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, the arithmetic of the Trinity, or the resurrection of the dead.
Twenty-third. It is probably safe to say that not one-third of the inhabitants of this world ever heard of the Bible, and not one- tenth ever read it. It is also safe to say that no two persons who ever read it agreed as to its meaning, and it is not likely that even one person has ever understood it. Nothing is more needed at the present time than an inspired translator. Then we shall need an inspired commentator, and the translation and the commentary should be written in an inspired universal language, incapable of change, and then the whole world should be inspired to understand this language precisely the same. Until these things are accomplished, all written revelations from God will fill the world with contending sects, contradictory creeds and opinions."

Until these things are accomplished, all written revelations from God will fill the world with contending sects, contradictory creeds and opinions."

IDINRETE u too much o, close thread

this is not me o, but from the Great Ingersoll himself,

Interesting controversial thread I started in my troublesome days on NL

simmy: @kunle
i cansee ure one of these 'new-age' xtians. ure even more confused than the atheists.

very fast : the books that where 'removed' as you say from the bible were removed based on seeming inconsistencies. the bible is just a collection of books that are congruent in their message. chikena!

This observation is spot on. I wonder what has now changed other than the fact that he is now known as pastorkun.

@OP,

I am just reading this discourse for the first time. Kindly give more insights on this topic. Methinks its is a fascinating topic and would really love to learn more considering the bible is the most powerful tool in Christendom.If one is honest with him(her)self as a christian, you must ask questions on the origin of the bible and some of its teachings as well because this is one of the ways you can go grow your faith. I have always believed that Christians ought to have a probing mind and ask their shepherd questions.
Faith based teachings are okay but it is much more paramount for Christian leaders to dig in to sound doctrines and educate their sheep on the unadulterated word of the Living God.

So many of us profess to be Christians yet we do not know much about the originality of the bible!More so, we are contented with stories of other people and we care less to ask pertinent questions as it affects our faith. Perhaps, the reason is that we are in a fast-paced age and we are mostly interested in miracle teachings rather than the truth.

OLAADEGBU:

This observation is spot on. I wonder what has now changed other than the fact that he is now known as pastorkun.

I am not surprised at your comment, infact I was expecting it. The truth is that you don't understand the message of the cross you claim to follow. What you believe in is christianity heavily diluted with the traditions of hence and you have an inability to understand what you claim to believe.

nedostic: @OP,

I am just reading this discourse for the first time. Kindly give more insights on this topic. Methinks its is a fascinating topic and would really love to learn more considering the bible is the most powerful tool in Christendom.If one is honest with him(her)self as a christian, you must ask questions on the origin of the bible and some of its teachings as well because this is one of the ways you can go grow your faith. I have always believed that Christians ought to have a probing mind and ask their shepherd questions.
Faith based teachings are okay but it is much more paramount for Christian leaders to dig in to sound doctrines and educate their sheep on the unadulterated word of the Living God.

So many of us profess to be Christians yet we do not know much about the originality of the bible!More so, we are contented with stories of other people and we care less to ask pertinent questions as it affects our faith. Perhaps, the reason is that we are in a fast-paced age and we are mostly interested in miracle teachings rather than the truth.

Thanx for the comment my brother, I am the OP even though I posted it with my previous I.D, however the OP is not my original writing I copied it from somewhere. I decided to post it here to stimulate discuss and provoke christians to study and understand the origin of the bible we base our faith on. Even though as a christian I hold the bible in very high esteem, to me it is not the ultimate source of revelation it comes behind the holy spirit and any christian that has genuinely had an encounter with the holy spirit would attest to this.